[Closed] Sports Direct finally I agree with Wallace on this one!

Poeple obviously want to work there, and get paid to work there, and we all have the choice of where we shop, its cheap and reasonably good quality.

I wonder how much 'want' is involved rather than need.

Zero hour contracts are immoral for anything other than temp work

Its 90% tack!!!!!

Lots of people having crappy jobs or fewer people having better jobs?

It's not obvious which is better.

When I was a pickny frequenting sports shops was a joyous affair,
But a trip to sports direct is a life sucking experience to be avoided at all costs.

It's good if you want a bit of piece and quiet though, somewhere you can sit or stand around for hours without anyone bothering you. For extra solitude hold a shoe.

[quote=thegreatape ]It's good if you want a bit of piece and quiet though, somewhere you can sit or stand around for hours without anyone bothering you. For extra solitude hold a shoe.

[img] http://conversationagent.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c03bb53ef013485580d9b970c-pi [/img]

problem is that there are very few high-street sports retailers left.
I dislike going in there, it's like walking into a jumble sale.

I wonder how many hours per week are available, in total, to those 17000 zero hour workers.

Poeple obviously want to work there,

[img] [/img]

A few months ago, I was talking to a girl in her early twenties, she worked in the local sports direct and loved it. Yes the shops are awful, zero hour contracts are not a good thing, etc etc, but I can think of worse jobs.

a spokesman added: "With enemies like these, who needs friends?"

I find it particularly interesting that a high profile retail company should use the media attention it is receiving to make a smartarse comment like that.

I don't doubt that it speaks volumes about the style and attitude of management.

Poeple obviously want to work there

Lots of people having crappy jobs or fewer people having better jobs?

It's not obvious which is better.

I can think of worse jobs.

Sports direct is utter garbage but for folks on a budget It is sometimes all they can afford. The only two things I have bought from there were a Wilson Tennis racket and a Sondico base layer for £12 which was actually really good.
I think Mike Ashley has amassed his huge personal wealth buy buying cheap bankrupt crap and remarketing It , Incidently his latest purchase is Glasgow Rangers (I rest my case).

Lots of people having crappy jobs or fewer people having better jobs?

It's not obvious which is better.

don't be surprised to see people on poor temping contracts and zero hours being part of the reason the foodbanks are maxed out, cos there's bugger all control over income and less access to benefit cos you've got a non-existent job..

zero hours contracts have all the class of the 1920s dock gates employment method; we're better than that aren't we

Just for devil's advocate I have a zero hours contract which suits me. Though in my case I'm offered shifts and can take or leave them. So if I want a free week or fortnight I don't take any shifts.

But then it's also a third income source for me. A zero hours contract as a primary job where the employee has to be available for work at all times is a bit 19th century.

In my case most of the work is done by staff on contracted hours and ZH staff are used to cover sickness/holidays etc. An employer with the majority of staff on zero hours contracts is taking advantage of the unemployed.

The NHS employs thousands upon thousands of people on zero hours contracts. Probably more than Sports Direct does. I'm sure they would all really appreciate it if you boycotted the NHS.

One of my Students has been working at Sports Direct for a few Months and tells of wierd customers and daily shoplifting.

When She started, She was given one shirt and one pair of trousers for her uniform. She was told that's all She was allowed.

Back in the Summer, the Staff had to buy their own Shorts as it was roasting in the Shop.

She actually didn't mind the job too much but has just got a Office job as its contracted hours.

Please god do not stop zero hours contracts. I'd have to work proper hours or maybe my job would just go. I think they are a damn good idea.

There seems to be a lot lately in the news about zero hour contracts, but they are nothing new...
I used to do them when I worked in shops about 20 years ago...

Some quite snobby comments about the clothing in there, but I've bought quite a bit of decent kit in there.
Recently bought some decent Speedo swim shorts, Nike Air trainers, some dirt cheap swimming goggles that are at least as good as the expensive Speedo goggles I've had in the past....yeah, you have to be prepared to root around a bit and yeah, there is a lot of tat, but there's a lot of decent stuff.

Weird post from thegreatape - I'm always surprised by how helpful the young folk are when shopping for shoes in Sports Direct. Helpful, polite and efficient despite it being, apparently, a shitty place to work.

I have no problem with its products but thegreatape summed up perfectly my experience of sports direct.

[quote=simmy ]One of my Students has been working at Sports Direct for a few Months and tells of wierd customers and daily shoplifting.
When She started, She was given one shirt and one pair of trousers for her uniform. She was told that's all She was allowed.
Back in the Summer, the Staff had to buy their own Shorts as it was roasting in the Shop.
She actually didn't mind the job too much but has just got a Office job as its contracted hours.
The irony is that you write your username with no capital...

Anyone working on a zero hours contract in UK politics, I wonder?

There are certainly plenty of people in Labour led councils working on zero hour contracts.

Weird post from thegreatape - I'm always surprised by how helpful the young folk are when shopping for shoes in Sports Direct. Helpful, polite and efficient despite it being, apparently, a shitty place to work.

Try the weegie branch!

Anyone working on a zero hours contract in UK politics, I wonder?

Don't be silly now, those are [i]Interns[/i]. They don't get paid at all.

Anyone working on a zero hours contract in UK politics, I wonder?

I'm guessing you heard the radio 4 piece on it this morning and already know that some labour council employees are on zero hour contracts. And they wonder why they are losing support with from traditional labour supporters. 😥

As for sports direct, it's on the banned list in our house.

My last experience of sports direct was a weekday early afternoon.
Bearing in mind it was a large retail outlet on a retail park.
There were six people visibly in the shop, me, another customer, three sales staff and a security guard on the door.

One sales assistant was on the floor helping the other customer choose a pair trainers, one stacking shelves and one behind the till.
I stood clutching my chosen shoe about ten yards away from the one serving as not wanting to intrude but still make him aware I was wating to be served. Ten yards in the other direction was the one stacking shelves who would occasionally make eye contact but then turn away quickly returning to his shelf stacking, with the last assistant stood behind the counter staring blankly into space.

After what seemed a lifetime I turned to the one stacking shelves and said I would like a pair of these in a size 10 please while offering him the shoe.
I can't help you sir i am currently busy was his reply.
So I patiently waited another lifetime while the other customer tried on every shoe in the place before approaching the young lady on the till, could I please get these in a size ten while again offering my chosen shoe I asked.

Sorry I am on the till you will have to get one of our staff on the floor to help you she replied.
So I then retook my place near by to the one member of staff who was actually giving good service and the young lady behind the till went back to staring blankly into space.

This went on for another 15 minutes, before I could take no more and conceded defeat, returning the £90 trail running shoe to its place on the wall and then left.

When I left I was not even angry, quit the opposite, I felt like I needed a lie down, as I had never failed before to buy something I wanted from a shop.

Tennis balls, football boots and nike pro combats - the only things IME worth the pain of visiting SD. But like ZHR, it has a place filling a need.

Given that the balls, boots and underwear are probably all made in a sweatshop somewhere it would be pretty hypocritical to boycott them IMO.

Prefer the local sports shop though.

The problem isn't zero hours contracts- it's jobs that should be regular time, being run as zero hours. That's obviously the case here- you can't run a retail chain of 420 shops with 20000 staff of which 17000 are legitimately and reasonably zero hours.

Given that the balls, boots and underwear are probably all made in a sweatshop somewhere it would be pretty hypocritical to boycott them IMO.

Depends on the reason for boycotting them. I boycott because I dislike their business practises not because of the products they sell. I agree that the conditions of manufacture, particularly non EU manufacture is something that is very difficult to have any real certainty about.

These contracts should be outlawed. Yes there are some businesess where there is a genuine need for such flexibility bit they are in the minority. Zero hours are used to avoid holiday and sick pay and pensions. Sports Direct would exist as a business if it had proper employment contracts

Tried to buy some sock holder uppers (Velcro things that ground the leg to hold your socks up) in a variety of shops that sold sports wear yesterday in Edinburgh. Failed miserably

Ended up in Sports Direct, served by a floor worker straight away, right product, £3 - bargain

My lad then stopped battling with his kilt.socks every 30s

I'd love to see more proper sports shops, but Sports Direct serve a massive part of folk' needs for kit.

Went to Greaves in Glasgow (both shops) last week and they were awful. In each shop there was someone available to help serve but they were useless, took a bit to find someone interested/competent. Disappointing when paying full rep for products.

jambalaya - Member
These contracts should be outlawed.

Why outlaw something that (as posters above have noted) provides job options that some people want?

Yes there are some businesess where there is a genuine need for such flexibility bit they are in the minority.

That only focuses on demand for labour, what about supply?

Zero hours are used to avoid holiday and sick pay and pensions. Sports Direct would exist as a business if it had proper employment contracts

Is when ZHC are possibly abused which is a different point altogether - NWs point - but doesn't lead to conclusion that ZHC should be outlawed IMO.

Off to SD later to get replacement studs. Other shops do not open.

Given the strength of feeling against Sports Direct, does that mean it would be acceptable to use them as an internet shop window?
Go to SD, try a few items on for fit & quality, go home, order them from whoever's cheapest on the internet. You know, the sort of thing that's frowned upon when done to an independent LBS.

Chip - your purchase failure seems very like the one my dad had when he went into a Honda dealership to buy a £25k brand new car. Despite standing there for some time no-one ever came to speak to him and it wasn't busy so he just left and bought a Ford (which was a lot better) instead. 🙂

Despite standing there for some time no-one ever came to speak to him and it wasn't busy so he just left

bought a Ford (which was a lot better) instead.

No it wasn't.

Why outlaw something that (as posters above have noted) provides job options that some people want?

Chip - your purchase failure seems very like the one my dad had when he went into a Honda dealership to buy a £25k brand new car. Despite standing there for some time no-one ever came to speak to him and it wasn't busy so he just left

I prefer it like that - the sales guys leaving you alone until you approach them, rather than jumping on you the second you walk in the door like some dealerships do.

The hysteria with ZHC is hilarious, yes we're all press ganged into working then, no choice guvnor, etc etc....
I'm full time NHS and have had several ZHC over the years with neighbouring NHS Trusts and private sector companies purely so I have ultimate flexibility with overtime.

They have allowed me to work the hours I want and to not be beholden to my main employer.
That's the positive side of ZHC that people seem to forget about, if you have a few of them then the power goes back to the employee....pick your hours, turn down shifts you don't fancy, bag up one week in order to take a week off afterwards etc, the flexibility is great...I know plenty of people in healthcare who just do ZHC work because it fits in around family time.... If I was a mercenary bugger I could earn double my current NHS salary by floating about on ZHC between several interested firms, sure I'd lose sick pay and pension entitlements but for some it's worth the trade off for the financial gain during their working life.

pick your hours, turn down shifts you don't fancy, bag up one week in order to take a week off afterwards etc, the flexibility is great.

It be like this with the NHS but I doubt all ZHC employers give that level of flexibility.

There has been numerous reports in the media that if ZHC employees turn down shifts, they don't get any when they want them.

I would guess the issue is how the employers treat their ZHC staff, rather than a problem with ZHC.

That's the positive side of ZHC that people seem to forget about, if you have a few of them then the power goes back to the employee....pick your hours, turn down shifts you don't fancy, bag up one week in order to take a week off afterwards etc, the flexibility is great...I know plenty of people in healthcare who just do ZHC work because it fits in around family time

Do you think most ZHC are like yours, choice is fine but does everyone have a choice. Work or lose benefits?

as gobuchel said!

I've no experience of them so can someone explain what's wrong with a zero hour contract? Is it simply no guaranteed income for the employee or does the zero hour aspect remove certain rights from the employee and obligations from the employer?

If it gives the employer a larger flexible workforce that seems a bit daft. For example why employ three people to cover a 35 hour working week. That's three sets of wages to process, three uniforms to buy etc.

What about workplaces where you're contracted for 35 hours but you're on a salary and the unwritten rule is you're expected to work way beyond your contracted hours, thus diminishing your true hourly wage. Plenty of places like that, exploiting their workforce.

The girl next door to me works in a call centre on a ZHC

She often gets sent home shortly after arriving at work as they don't want her that day, that's after she's paid her child minder for the day etc.
The top-up benefits she gets are a nightmare to manage and are often stopped altogether until the DWP have managed to work it out.

Wasn't it Sports Direct where longer-serving staff recently got a massive cash handout from a share sale/going public or somesuch? Probably not the ZHC lot, admittedly, but it doesn't totally chime with the idea of an exploitative employer.

Comment from the PR about Milliband was funny, but hopefully came direct from Ashley, or it will come back to bite him.

iirc the biggest difference between ZHC at sports direct and the ZHC that deviant seems to enjoy is the compusion to work. Deviant gets whatever weekends and holidays he wants. (Fwiw i did this for the nhs too in the 90's and it was not bad at all) but at sports direct if you don't change your plans and cancel stuff often at very short notice to fit in with them [s]asking[/s] telling you to come into work you get sacked. Imho this is an impossible way of life if you have children or dependents or even if you don't -effectively it means it is impossible to have a second job in shop/business hours alongside as the first one requires you to be available all the time and yet means you have no way of garuanteeing a baseline monthly income. Try renting somewhere to live or god forbid getting a mortgage with that!

deviant - Member
The hysteria with ZHC is hilarious, yes we're all press ganged into working then, no choice guvnor, etc etc....

Well said.

Ordered 2 pairs of running tights 3.95 pair, late wednesday night, 11.30 next day lady delivering them, in between 2 text messages and 3 emails telling me the location iof them.

Great service and low prices, check out their cheap cycling gear.

Seems like a 50/50 spilt with the ZHC fans quite happy to prop up Sports Direct workers with Tax Credits out of the Government Benefit purse.
Royal Mail are going the same way will no more new full-time jobs and only offering 24 hr contracts even though the workers are doing full time (39)hrs, saves on paying sick pay holiday and pro rata bonuses it stinks!

Depends if you are reading the conclusions you want, nice use of emotive language too.
The defenders of ZHC's are pointing out that they work for some people therefore getting rid of them is not a good idea. Babies and bathwater and all that.

Whats wrong is the attitude of certain companies and they way they use their tools.

I wonder if this forum's staunch right wing capitalists' sociopathic selfishness is some kind of mental illness..

Could they be sectioned under the mental health act? They certainly seem to pose a danger to themselves and others

Just as bad as the black and white lefties Yunki

I don't bloody doubt it

My old workplace was staffed by about 50% agency staff on zero hours, don't remember any of them praising the glories of the system. Shifts being cut at short notice and refusing a shift would normally mean less shifts in the future.

mikewsmith - Member
Just as bad as the black and white lefties Yunki

Not as bad as the Black and White Minstrels though, surely?

You often find people supporting something because it's commonly associated with a particular party view or belief system they self identify with.
Not because they actually believe it.

See the unquestioning support of violent dictatorships, excusing atrocities for 'cultural' reasons etc.

I'm a proper romantic old lefty in most respects, but not a huge fan of state intervention in many personal choices - motorbike helmets, seat belts, smoking, fox hunting etc.

It does tend to confuse people.
🙂

The only beneficiaries of ZHC are rapacious businessmen who care nothing for those they employ.
I can't see how this could be anymore self evident.

Watching the right wing intelligentsia attempting to defend this on dogmatic grounds is very sad.
People denying their essential humanity, just so they don't have to challenge their own unthinking belief in a pre-packaged, spoon fed ideology they've never had the balls or self-awareness to question.

Equally applies to the other side too, obviously.

The only beneficiaries of ZHC are rapacious businessmen who care nothing for those they employ.
I can't see how this could be anymore self evident.

Reforms are needed but Millibands headline grabbing isn't going to do that.

Part time, flexible work has always been available for those who need and want it.
ZHC are imposed on those who, in the most part, don't.

Well said mike. But let's be fair to Wallace, his zero hours, zero taxes mantra will need re-writing now that the HRMC has disproved his argument. Still when have facts been important?!?

If there is any dogma in evidence, it is from those dismissing ZHC out of hand, surely?

My nephew has been on zero hours contracts at two different jobs. He's unskilled and not in a position to be choosy about his employment.

At both jobs he had to be available for work each day but would be told that he wasn't needed at short notice, often after he'd already boarded the train to get to work (costing him money on the days that he'd earn nothing), he would rarely work a full week and occasionally wouldn't work at all. He had a level of free time that some of us might be envious of but ultimately it left him unable to plan or budget with any degree of certainty despite supposedly being in 'employment'.

Flexible working for a well regulated employer is a great thing, but I really can't see how zero hours contracts implemented in the way that I know they are can be of benefit to anyone other than the employer.

I really can't see how zero hours contracts implemented in the way that I know they are can be of benefit to anyone other than the employer.

But only to those two employers who offer your nephew no job/income security, it's detrimental to other employers because as you say due to his situation he is "unable to plan or budget with any degree of certainty", which must make him a rather poor consumer, employers need consumers (and consumer confidence) to sell their products and services, without them they go under.

Well said.

Why not then ?
As others note most employers use it as leverage to force/compel employees to work what they [ the employer] want and to send you home, without pay, when you have already turned up.

Very few , if any, employee, is choosing that and it is more typical [ what high 90% ish?] than the atypical exemplar you have chosen to praise.

Well said.

Out of interest what % of the workforce would choose a zero hours contract over an alternative contract?
Have you chosen one for yourself?

As i mentioned earlier i had what amounted to a zhc with nhs inthe 90's. Advantages were being able to have whatever time iff i wanted when it suited me, and if a shift was cancelled within a certain time before it started (only 12 hours i think) i still got paid for it. Oh and i was allowed in the pension scheme.

But when i got the opportunity for the exact same job on a proper full time contract i bit their arm off, because
-i had a predictable income which meant i could (and did) get mortgage rather than renting (which had also been a struggle convincing landlords the the "likelihood" was that i would be able to pay the rent each month since i had no garuanteed hours and the odd really short/quiet month)
-i also got paid holidays,
- sick pay and
-injury/death benefits.
-when i did over 37.5 hours a week i got proper overtime payments at a third my hourly rate on top.
-annual pay increments.
-length of service increases in annual leave.
-looooads of free in-service training useful for other jobs too not just the one i did.

So for the sake of having to accept one weekend in two and not getting exactly the holiday i wanted, it was an easy decision to make and not one i can imagine regretting under any circumstances.

As others note most employers use it as leverage to force/compel employees to work what they [ the employer] want and to send you home, without pay, when you have already turned up.

This is the worst aspect of it and what should be legislated against. And if that happened, Plenty of ambulance chasing legal firms out there could get lots of business supporting people who were managed out, discrimninated against or sacked through that sort of behaviour. Of course the nhs permanent employees versus zhc is nothing like the difference between them at Sports Direct, but Nevertheless, still on a sunday thm could buy his studs from a slightly less gloomy and slightly more financially secure shop assistant, for probably fifty pence more than he would have paid this afternoon.

I think the over all point is that very few employees would chose them because they are crap whatever the pro group say about "choice". Worth noting that the supporters have not chose them personally, that tells us all we need to know about why they are crap ...even they can see.

Indeed they are done to save money and not for the employee

The most depressing thing about all this is that we're now going to have that sock puppet repeating the phrase "zero zero economy" every ten seconds between now and may. Seeing as repeating the phrase "cost of living crisis" aproximately 27,890,764 times hasn't made the remotest difference to the polls, as it's being delivered by someone who is about as genuine, animated and passionate about it as an item of cheap plastic patio furniture

Julian as I said,

teamhurtmore - Member
Prefer the local sports shop though.

But not open when you need them, hence....sports direct..

like ZHR, it has a place filling a need.

Wallace's zero mantra should have limited shelf life, if facts are important. Ditto, Dave's tax cuts promises. Bet your bottom dollar we will hear a lot more of both.

The hysteria with ZHC is hilarious, yes we're all press ganged into working then, no choice guvnor, etc etc....

I may be mistaken but arent benefits with held if you refuse work?

I haven't read everyone's posts ,sorry.
I think rolling zero hour contracts should be illegal.
They could be at least limited to 90 day, trial/seasonal periods.
That should give the business owners some flexibility.

Julian as I said,

Prefer the local sports shop though.
But not open when you need them, hence....sports direct..

Indeed.

And I was careful to point out that this would still be a sunday afternoon you would be visiting them, and that for the sake of some improvment in the quality of life and financial stability of the poor souls who served you today, regulation of some aspects of Zhc would cost you personally say 50p more [i]for the convenience of being able to buy your studs from sports direct on a Sunday[/i]. THM you are no doubt in a better position than me to judge what if any impact regulation on zhc might also have on you as a taxpayer subsidising sports direct through their zhc employees' tax credits.

Swings and roundabouts Julian.

Anyway the two staff that helped me today were (unusually) very cheery and helpful. There English wasn't that bad either and much better than my Slovak. 😉

There English wasn't that bad either

Were they any good at spelling ?

Yes, they're speling and grammer was oursome

Swings and roundabouts Julian.
Anyway the two staff that helped me today were (unusually) very cheery and helpful. There English wasn't that bad either and much better than my Slovak.

Just as well,
I don't know any Slovak, and my polish is limited to "I sleep with old women for money".
And **** obviously.

" I can think of worse jobs."

I don't think anyone's job should be changed until the worst possible job has been improved.

@binners - I'm getting this impression that you're not the biggest fan of Ed - or am I mistaken about that?

senor j - Member

I haven't read everyone's posts ,sorry.

Which is why you don't realise there are good and bad ZHCs. I like mine and wouldn't thank you for it being replaced with a fixed hours contract.

I've read them now. Glad it works out for you irc but this summed it up for me.....

"Part time, flexible work has always been available for those who need and want it.
ZHC are imposed on those who, in the most part, don't. "