[Closed] Spiritual bollocks

Walking potion - is it about the walking, or the potion? And singing a song to the lake, about the lake.

but I find it harder to understand people who think that disrespecting folk because of their belief is OK

It's quite simple. Disrespecting the belief is ok, disrespecting the person because of the belief is not.

I'll alert the media.

I could just ban you for a couple of hours if it meant the adults could have a conversation? (-:

I've nothing to add but....

Miss Houns, a very clever, amazing woman, very highly regarded in the nursing world is in to all that yoghurt weaving pap. She's doing her witch degree, she's wiccan/pagan and has so many different oils and crystals. Her Mum and sister are in to it and her sisters degree (one of them) is something to do with natural healing.

Of course I'm sceptical (and thankfully so is my brother in law) so we do question things (ok take the piss) but like seeing her have a passion. Though having taken her to Galstonbury I just see (like all other religions) people using it to make money out of "believers"

Out of all the different religions etc I think it's the least harmless. It boils down to liking nature and not being a dick. That I think is something we all need to get in to

yunki - Member
search for the meaning within yourself

Sorry, you've conflated your right bollock with my mother after complaining about disrespectful posts.

Perilously close to looking like a nob. Door still slightly ajar for you, however.

She's doing her witch degree

Excellent stuff. Good to see more people standing up for our consumer rights.

Perilously close to looking like a nob

oh the shame

Hello.

So it's looking like a 2-for-1 banning special coming up 😀

Hello

Good afternoon.

I can't be banned.. my right testicle receives messages from beyond the grave

Have you clanged your mini cymbals of your right testicle?

(I caught Miss Houns clanging her cymbals over some crystal the other day to cleanse it)

[IMG] [/IMG]

well the funny part is, my left ball is a total atheist, but they still manage to hang out together

😀 😀

Jamie - Freeloader!
Which was originally a Pagan holiday before the Buddhists stole it from the Christians and then the Mormons made a sandw....erm...I seem to have got derailed. What was the question again?

Get the order right will you ... 🙄

The order should be Pagan (many forms in many part of the world), Buddhists (there were other religions before and after) and finally the Abrahmic faith (depending on version you have adopted). The last is also the one that try to destroy everyone because of their strong absolute views ... 😯

She's doing her witch degree, she's wiccan/pagan and has so many different oils and crystals.

I share your pain
We never discuss this as arguments follow

I think there is considerable difference between religion and spiritual

If you have never stood in awe and wonder at the world and everything within it then you have something missing in your life , one may even say soul here if you like.

If after doing this and considerable reflection that may last months or years you consider a mystical being made it all then you have something missing in your intellectual faculties*.

This forum is not a place for an intelligent and mutually respectful discussion about what spiritual means, if you have a religious faith.

* i assume that is viewed as disrespectful but in all honesty I cannot respect any view that has no evidence and runs contrary to the known facts however much [ blind] faith you have in or how sincerely you believe.

I thought this thread was about someone's genitalia becoming possessed, and was dragging the person it was attached to up and down the halfway on a child's tricycle.

You get one life, that's pretty short. If its hugging trees, worshipping a God, or Satan(capitalists do) yogic flying or whatever manner of "weirdness", if it helps get you through and makes this life more interesting for yourself or others(in the form of them laughing at you) then fine.

The downside to this of course is you possibly sharing(imposing) your belief with/onto others, and killing those who don't believe.

The day the Tibetan monks start setting fire to others, then we'll really be in the sh*t.

but I find it harder to understand people who think that disrespecting folk because of their belief is OK

Funnily enough in all the services I gave been too (in different versions) I have never been told to go out and kill anyone. In fact quite the opposite.

Buddhism is not a religion. It is a following, The Buddah was not a God, but a Prince who found enlightenment.

You can follow the path of the Buddah yet still be a Christian/Muslim or whatever.

It is very flexible/adaptable.

And yes, I am a Buddhist. 😀

I'm not religious, but very few people who believe in the bearded sky fairy, of whichever flavour, actually support killing non-believers. Those that do propose killing others usually have a political motive far more than a religious one.

But I read a book recently where the bloke banged on about endurance sports being spiritual

Shit boring stereotypical writing probably explains that

I have no problem disrespecting someone who tries to explain Life the Universe And Everything in terms of a big beardy sky fairy, then advocates killing anyone who disagrees with that.

If I ever hear anyone saying that, I'll disrespect them too. Fortunately it is rare in the Christian world, so how about some respect for those who aren't advocating killing?

very few people who believe in the bearded sky fairy, of whichever flavour, actually support killing non-believers.

It's quite simple. Disrespecting the belief is ok, disrespecting the person because of the belief is not.

But the person is the belief; unless of course you believe that a person and their beliefs are separate entities with no bearing on one another? And where is this respect/disrespect directed? Respect for which ability? Or do you just have one respect for all parts of a person's personality make-up? It's not really very simple at all; is it?

Historically its reasonable to say the religions have clashed with each other and persecuted each other, Whether that is a religion thing or a human thing is debatable but IMHO its a human thing exacerbated by the certainty and fervour of devout belief. that is tribes would have clashed without religion but religion [ and being promised the same land] made it worse.

For example blasphemy and heresy have been crimes here and still are in the more devout regions as has been denying the lord

then again some atheists have persecuted the religious [ generally communists

being a shit seems to be something all humans can do and we seem to be discussing what the religious did in the past not what they are doing here now their empire/power is on the wane

and please... can we engage our intellect for a second and remember that for each fighty grumpy religious person, there are many, many more peaceful, tolerant and loving religious folk

It might be really helpful if someone all internetty and resourceful could research the stats and come up with a ratio for this

Teamhurtmore and Molgrips have put it pretty well, as has jy.

But the person is the belief; unless of course you believe that a person and their beliefs are separate entities with no bearing on one another? And where is this respect/disrespect directed? Respect for which ability? Or do you just have one respect for all parts of a person's personality make-up? It's not really very simple at all; is it?

If I believed I was a teapot, that belief isn't deserving of respect (because it's ludicrous), but I should still command respect as a person, no?

I do hear what you're saying, it's not always perfectly black and white. But it should be possible, generally, to discuss things without being bloody unpleasant about it.

Anyway.

<mod>
This thread is swerving vigorously off-topic and into an argument which has been done time and again. Can we go back to the OP's topic please? If we're going to retread the same old wah wah sky wizards wah wah nasty atheists schtick I'll just close off the file.
</mod>

Quite yunki, but given the (accepted?) thread title, such consideration is/was unlikely!!

(Oops cross post, no hammers pls cougar 😉 )

[img] [/img]

I'd like to clarify my earlier comment - it wasn't meant to be a sweeping
generalisation. Cougar and Junkyard are excepted 😉

More on topic, I agree that the word is loosely defined, and I think nature can arouse a kind of spiritual feeling.

Cougar and Junkyard are excepted

Its a strange one as all the religious folk I know in the real world try really hard to be good people and live by a moral code I could not
the capacity to forgive is far greater than anything I will ever come close to achieving They are also generally just lovely people and whilst they know my views i woudl never state them as on here.

getting dangerously back on topic i do think its possible to be spiritual without belief
I still practice aspects of Buddhism from my days of dabbling and many of the parables of Jesus [ I like the sower in particular], and the new testament in general, are an excellent moral guidebook. How to treat strangers, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, move on be excellent to each other etc
Peace out to you all and Happy new year

getting dangerously back on topic i do think its possible to be spiritual without belief
I still practice aspects of Buddhism from my days of dabbling and many of the parables of Jesus [ I like the sower in particular], and the new testament in general, are an excellent moral guidebook. How to treat strangers, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, move on be excellent to each other etc
Peace out to you all and Happy new year

*Yes, I was watching Dave Allen. 😉

Ask yourself what the word spirit means, what it means to have spirit - this might help define spiritualism.

Ask yourself what the word spirit means, what it means to have spirit - this might help define spiritualism.

Maybe, but it depends on your definition of spirit. You have to also consider the interaction with other people and the world in general as well. There are plenty of 'spirited' people who are utter bastards, they are happy in themselves, but their happiness is gained at the expense of others.

I think that increasing your own sense of contentment whilst trying to help others do likewise is not far off a good definition.

Originally (and properly), i think a spiritual practice was anything that brought you closer to the divine/the spirit/ God. That could be mediation, fasting, sleep depravation, drug taking, whatever. It involves making, or rediscovering, a connection so profound that all else pales into insignificance.

A spiritual experience is the aim of spiritual practice (making the connection, or maybe breaking the connection with the present). You're not necessarily going to have a profound experience just because you've sat staring at a candle for half an hour, but some people do. Practice makes perfect I suppose, and a predisposition towards these sorts of things will help.

You could certainly have a spiritual experience as an atheist, but perhaps you would not be one afterwards. As to what it does, I'm not really sure. At the very least it changes you perception, your point of view.

I would certainly seperate spirituality and religion. I am not religious, however get a feeling that I calk sprituality when in the presence of a spectacular natural wonder, or sometimes even when looking at the moon. I think of it as feeling a sense of human frailty in a big universe.

Here's a few recent examples from just my bike riding that I would describe as 'spiritual':

Doing the climbs on icy snow last night by moonlight alone - so different from the norm and so 'alien' that it was captivating.

Coming off twice on a hundred yard section of relatively easy trail the other weekend. The first time I was phlegmatic, the second time I swore loudly and used some vile language. Before coming to the realization that I was actually either berating an inanimate section of woodland path or myself. Either way I was being a dick.

Snapping my chain about 400 yards into a recent Peak District ride and momentarily losing it. Looking back now, it had no effect on my 'day' whatsoever.

My feet coming back to life after a good five minutes under a hot shower the other week, try worrying about insignificant life shit when that's going on.

The post ride pie, chips and a pint after the freezing cold and wet Peak District ride. Looking back, we're not convinced it was that good a pie, but the context and the log burner made it seem like manna from heaven.

Spirituality comes under many different guises. For me, it is those moments of pure involvement when the rest of life's worries recede totally and you are just in the moment. The ability to appreciate and cherish these moments is what keeps me sane. And that's just a list of the bike related ones.

There's plenty of people out there who want to score points off of me, keep me stressed and worry me, but they cannot take away those moments when I am just me, be that with family, friends, riding, whatever.

Or you could just have a cuppa and a strong word with yourself......

Each to their own. 🙂

Wonder which has caused more suffering.

Religion, or the desire for material, monetary, and territorial gain?

please note, this is an actual question

As an aside, I sometimes have what I lazily think of as spiritual errr.... 'moments' almost always when I have a strong sense of connection to the natural world. Rathe than allowing the ego to retain a stronger sense of separation.

Check me out, might even go hug a tree. Or eat a mince pie, one of the two.

One could surely argue that the Buddhist tradition, taken as a whole, represents the richest source of contemplative wisdom that any civilization has produced

- Sam Harris - 'Killing the Buddha'

'Contemplative wisdom'
'Mindfulness'
'Being'

These are a few of my favourite things. Also the great 'emptying out' I experience when outdoors in the 'flow', whether walking, cycling, working with hands on art, landscaping or building etc or just simply lying in the sun listening to it all. Spirituality seems to be what happens to me when I take the opportunity to let go of clutter, both in the physical, literal sense - and in the psychological/spiritual sense.

On the other hand - it seems to me that organised religion (like politics) creates internal conflict, sets alight a dramatic, magical/moral narrative in the head - and then offers 'escape' from the drama via prayer, adherence, and the (now more promising, paradisiacal) certainty of death.

Problems with words like 'spiritual', as others rightly state, is they have such fluid definitions. Don't really see a way past that.

I've never been overly religious, but it seems to me that the Western world in particular at the moment has zero spirituality guidance, just a vacuous mess, of sleaze, dubious morals and celebrity obsession.

I spent a bit of time in Thailand years ago and found it enlightening. We have far too many distractions here and everything seems to be the lowest common denominator. I try to be a little Buddhist / Humanist. Makes sense to me.

I do find my 'spirituality' from training, being in nature on my own and strangulation......well not quite the last part!

Is veganism "spiritual"?

Mr Woppit - Member

Is veganism "spiritual"?

Veganism is similar the extreme of a fashion trend by putting too much emphasis on self ... IMO.

My logic
God is everything,
if god was not everything, that would imply that there is everything and then there is god.....which is illogical, as everything is EVERYTHING.
Belief in god is unnecessary for the same reason as belief in everything is unnecessary.

My coat rack is everything,

if my coat rack was not everything, that would imply that there is everything and then there is My coat rack .....which is illogical, as everything is EVERYTHING. Unless the list of everything includes my coat rack and my logic is broken.