MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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The trusty Volvo V70, that I've had for five years and is now nine years old (but only has 77k miles on it) needs a whole new power steering assembly including new rack. It also needs tyres and rear brakes.
It's a lovely car and in great condition save for the fact it needs £4k spending on it. With the work done it's probably worth about £6k.
Would you spend that much on a nine year old car or cut your losses and spend the money on the deposit for something younger (but probably not brand new)?
Cut losses and get new car
Tyres and brake are consumables, you will pay for these on a new car. Tyres £400 for 4 maximum, rear brakes say £150 fitted?
Steering rack - how much of the £4k is this?
I'm just about to do service/timing belt/two tyres/brakes next month on a 125k/10 year old Galaxy.
Sounds pretty pricey for that work, I cant believe a new power steering rack can be that expensive - could you find a rack in a breakers yard and get a local indie garage to fit it? Rear brakes is also an easy DIY if you are tool minded.
Get two more quotes. I question that bill. When I needed a new driveshaft, Subaru wanted £1k+vat. I sorted it for <£300
Has the garage that quoted you 4k valued your car?..
ALL cars need new tyres. That newer car- would it come on brand new tyres?
When will this newer car also need a major service? Post it's 3month warranty period what if something goes wrong on that?
Depends!
How new could you afford if you swapped?
And I assume these prices are from main dealer? I'd be looking at independent Volvo specialists on a car of that age. Main dealer history is less important as they get older.
Wouldn't cost that to get it done in the prototype workshops at volvo.
You've either neglected to mention some other bits that need doing. Or your garage is talking the mickey. (Or don't want to do the job)
I'd check out parts from a breakers and a backstreet garage to fit. Or I'd do it myself. £400 sounds more likely than 4K.
Edit: recon power steering rack on ebay: £175. £400 fitted at the local garage may have been overly pessimistic.
OP if you are selling it for c3k I'm interested. Not to sell on but to fix and keep. Whereabouts are you?
New one. Once thats all fixed what's saying something else won't break next week. We had a 2005 3 series that we were planning on running into the ground but lots of bits started failing and I got to the point that I had no confidence in the car. The engine was fine but the turbo failed. The squib failed and the last straw was the clutch starting to make some funny noises. When the turbo failed we were about 300 miles away from home on holiday and had to get towed home which took 11 hours. £1400 later and a new turbo it was all fine for a few months until the clutch started playing up. We chopped it in as a deposit towards a new one and I'm glad we did.
Your pricing is a mile out. I have a V70 with 170,000 miles on the clock about the same age as yours. I've replaced the front and rear brake discs and hand brake shoes and I think one of the cables. I don't think the parts came to more than £250. You say the steering rack is toast. What are the symptoms? Mine needed track rod ends and track rods and a fluid flush. Again the parts were around £100. If you need a rack try a specialist breaker like Huddersfield Volvo breakers. They will have them on the shelf. A whole rack replacement is a bit of an epic job. I'm surprised you'd need one at 70k
I say find an independent specialist and get another quote. There's a shed load of life left in yours for a lot less cash
£400 ish for a recon rack go crazy fit new ball joints and fluid another £50 new rear discs and pads what £140? Full set of premium tyres £600Then how much labour? Something dosnt add up.
Your pricing is a mile out
It's not my pricing it's the dealer's, albeit a main Volvo dealer.
The suggestion of going the cheap route to fix is one possibility but the biggest obstacle is that I just don't have the time to sort it. The best I can hope for is taking it to a Volvo specialist but non main dealer and getting it done there.
Of the £4k, £3300 is the power steering and of that, the parts come to three quarters of the total. The steering rack alone is £900.
At least call two. How much are you paid roughly hourly in your day job? I'm not paid £300+ an hour so two quick calls and an hour's extra driving negates any cost to me.
Providence is king.
Why even go to a main dealer unless it's newish/in warranty? Subaru wanted 1k for an exhaust!, 1k+ for a driveshaft etc. Both sorted for a fraction at an indie. I remember a Toyota tech telling me they charged 3.5k for a 'special' exhaust system on the sporty Corolla. He said a specialist aftermarket exhaust place could do it for £300.
On the BMW - I question BMW longevity. My BIL had clutch/flywheel/turbo issues on his 320d, friend a myriad of issues on a 5series that she's owned since new. She scrapped it; a 05 reg.
You can get reconditioned racks or get yours reconditioned,so even with labour of take off n refit ,then your tyres n brakes ,you'd struggle to reach 1 k at most independent garages.
My sons golf had to have water pump and also timing belt ,thermostat and refill new coolant and only cost 250 euro .
It's not my pricing it's the dealer's, albeit a main Volvo dealer.The suggestion of going the cheap route to fix is one possibility but the biggest obstacle is that I just don't have the time to sort it. The best I can hope for is taking it to a Volvo specialist but non main dealer and getting it done there.
Of the £4k, £3300 is the power steering and of that, the parts come to three quarters of the total. The steering rack alone is £900.
No more hassle going to an independent garage. Sounds like you can save 80% on parts, so under a grand should be worst case.
No more hassle going to an independent garage.
I've just tried to call four independent, volvo specialist garages and none of them are open. So no, I don't agree it's no more hassle. There is a reason the other guys are cheap(er).
It's Saturday morning. Try Monday morning and save a packet.
It sounds like you just want a new car.
And as we all know, buying a new car is no hassle whatsoever.
How many hours would you work toward £2k?
A call on Monday and some faff = £2k saved on costs. Or spend waaaay more on new car.
What bike or family holiday can you afford for £2k?
I've just tried to call four independent, volvo specialist garages and none of them are open. So no, I don't agree it's no more hassle. There is a reason the other guys are cheap(er).
Ah I see. In that case I'd buy a new one this afternoon.
And this is why main dealers keep screwing everyone over.
Laziness.
Bet if you call during normal working hours you'll get at least 2 cheaper quotes. One of the others will be booked up until August 2017 and the 4th will be too busy to answer the phone.
I just managed to speak with an independent specialist who would take the route of sourcing components from breakers yards.
He reckons I could save about half (so around £1500) but he has no idea how long the work would take and the process means he has to source the parts as they come available.
So yes, the potential for saving £1500 is real, but then I would have to hire a car to see me through until mine's fixed.
I think I probably am buying a new car this afternoon!
I needed the steering rack replacing on our XC90 - I bought one from a Volvo breakers and had our local indy garage fit it - no need for a 'specialist', jst a garage that can turn spanners. Cost was much much less than £1k.
You'd be bonkers to have your dealer fix it.
He reckons I could save about half (so around £1500) but he has no idea how long the work would take and the process means he has to source the parts as they come available.
He doesn't know how long it would take to unbolt a rack and bolt another one in?! It's a steering rack, there basically is only one part and I would bet you could have one delivered within 3 days.
Sounds like some self-justification going on.
He doesn't know how long it would take to unbolt a rack and bolt another one in?! It's a steering rack, there basically is only one part and I would bet you could have one delivered within 3 days.
No it's not just the steering rack, it's the entire power steering system, so rack, lines, reservoir, motor, the whole shebang.
And the uncertainty is not how long it would take to do the work, but how long it would take to source all the parts.
There's no question here that going the cheap route of fixing it not viable for us unless I'm doing it having already bought a new car. There's way too much going on in the house to make that viable.
The choice then is to fix via the main dealer (which is what the independent garage just said I should do) or buy something else.
The garage will have told you all those parts are goosed - but in reality I bet they are not all knackered. Cars dont generally go wrong things break because there are weak points on them/ poor design. I'm willing to bet its a common fault on that car and there will have been loads of people who have had simillar isssues probably sorted without replacing the whole lot!
I think the dealers were playing the CYA game and just replacing the whole system in case their diagnosis of what was wrong was slightly off.
at 77k miles its just run in for a V70
GT
It does sound to me that you can't be bothered getting it fixed and therefore you may as well cut your losses and get a new motor. Your options of main dealer fix or quit and buy both leave you out of pocket by ££££s.
If you go and buy a car this pm you'll almost certainly feel you have to buy the first you see. That will cost you ££££s in a mistake.
What you could & should do is read some of the above advice and save yourself a small fortune. At least then you'd have a working car to sell on should you still think a new motor is what you need. Perhaps invest an hour of your time sourcing the parts yourself? I actually quite enjoy doing as much DIY work on cars as I can. It's quite rewarding!
at 77k miles its just run in for a V70
I agree, which is why I'm in a quandry as to what to do.
The garage will have told you all those parts are goosed
The entire system is contaminated with metal filings and this is the steering on my car so quite important. Maybe you could cut a corner and not replace the rack but I no nothing about cars and am not prepared to cut corners on something that important.
It does sound to me that you can't be bothered getting it fixed
It's got nothing to do with the effort and everything to do with the time. My wife and I work full time and have two kids and we both need access to a car 100% of the time. We can get by for a few days but not more than that.
OP - fixing cheaper will likely come with some inconvenience, there's no getting around that so it's simply CYBA or would you rather pay and be sorted faster? I'd prefer the latter but choose the former and go into the fix reconciling that the best I could do was minimise the hassle. You're paying though so your choice. The purpose of the original post seems irrelevant to be fair unless you're open minded to the fix it option. You've gone from a £4k bill to a lot less so what better outcome was there really unless it was a stealth sales post in which case you have one potential buyer...
The entire system is contaminated with metal filings
For christ sake why didn't you post this in post 1? What else are you holding back.
No it's not just the steering rack, it's the entire power steering system, so rack, lines, reservoir, motor, the whole shebang.
Fair enough - but a specialist breaker will have all those things. Put your reg number into [url= http://www.partsgateway.co.uk/ ]Parts Gateway[/url].
this is the steering on my car so quite important
Take all the power gubbins off and it will still work. It'll give you muscly arms too.
It doesn't [u]all[/u] need replacing. Lines and reservoir will be fine with a clean. You'll need a pump and rack and a big tub of fluid.
Ring the service dept of the main dealer. They'll be shut Saturday, too.
But it sounds like you have made your mind up; so go and buy a new one.
"The entire system is contaminated with metal filings"
Most (not all) main dealers are lying, ripoffs. They can be replace/plug n play rather than fix, clean/flush, diagnose.
With any big bills ALWAYS get three quotes.
What's actually wrong with the steering ?
Oh and the answer depends on the redt of the car condition.
I'm in the middle of replacing the rear beam (300 quid)on my berlingo as I know the car in side out. Its had new wheel bearings and struts up front , the timing belt and water pump are done , and the body works nae rotting away.
How ever if you just drive it till it breaks and take it to a garage to be repaired then you'll probably appreciate a new car.
My car doesn't go to garage other than for mot these days.
What's actually wrong with the steering ?
The powersteering has failed. My wife can't actually drive the car as she can't park it with the steering being so heavy.
Probably only needs a new pump and flush the system
Probably only needs a new pump and flush the system
How are you supposed to know?
The powersteering has failed
What has? That's a symptom, not the disease.
Is it the pump, the rack, a hose?
It looks a lot like there is a fault with the [u]system[/u] so the garage is recommending the entire system is replaced which is cobblers.
If your washer stopped working and it was a fuse, you wouldn't buy a new washer because it comes with a fresh 13amp already fitted, would you?
It wants diagnosing properly. But the key bits are pump and rack. Which is never in a million years £4k worth.
*Cross post so Ninja edit.
How are you supposed to know
A good garage will tell you.
What he said.
But if you want a new car crack on
Surrey main dealer diagnosis and pricing. I can give you a list of woes from Audi, worst was £2.5k for some manifold thing which an independent said was fine he sorted it for £60. Has the steering failed as in you've noticed or has a light come on ? Sorry to be such a cynic but have had similar experiences at Audi and Toyota Guildford main dealers (catalytic converter scam under extended warranty)
Yes it is possible the whole system has failed but I do wonder about the diagnosis. The Indy's are quoting based on your dealers work spec. If my Mrs wasn't so anti estate cars I'd be tempted to offer you £3k too as is. Fixed up and 4 new all season tyres and I've a great bike/alps car.
It may not work for you but I used Merc Medic in Old Woking for my Audi after getting fed up with dealer and warranty expired
What has? That's a symptom, not the disease. Is it the pump, the rack, a hose?
The motor in the pump has failed and sent lots of small pieces of metal into the system. These small bits of metal have made their way into all the hoses, the reservoir and the rack of steering assembly.
A good garage will tell you.
And yet when a main dealer tells me this everyone calls them out as being crooks!
I really don't want to buy a new car. I would rather spend the money on either extending the house or paying down the mortgage. My worry is spending £3600 now only to find it needs a new gearbox a year down the line.
FWIW the main dealer has agreed to give me 10% off the total bill.
Hire a car for a few days. Get a decent independent garage to sort you out. Save ££££s
I'll take 50% of your saving as a consultant fee.
You're welcome.
Buy the new car, keep and fix the old one on the cheap, then sell the old one.
£40 on ebay for steering rack
£40 on ebay for steering rack
And?
I'll take 50% of your saving as a consultant fee.
Tell you what, you do all the leg work including providing me with a loan car and also guaranteeing the work for three years and I will then give you 75% of the savings.
But does it work.....
The Volvo main dealer is guaranteeing their work for 3yrs?
You've already decided. I am interested in your car. It's worth a one way train ticket. Could we discuss on email if you are leaning that way?
That quote is nuts, paid a quarter of that when we renewed the PAS on the Porsche at a performance specialist, only item not replaced was a recent pipe. Even the Porsche main dealer was cheaper than your main dealer.
Tell you what, you do all the leg work including providing me with a loan car and also guaranteeing the work for three years and I will then give you 75% of the savings.
Tell you what, go buy a new car; justify it using ManMaths.
Let Hora do the hard work and reap the benefit.
I think you should get it re diagnosed by an indie garage or two, my local volvo dealer charges soemething insane like £100 an hour labour...and they aren't shy about suggesting you need to buy a new engine for a failed spark plug, official dealers are daylight robbers, I suspect all manufacturers dealers are pretty much the same, and..
Don't be hoodwinked into thinking your getting more skills/experience/competance because it's an official dealer, often the complete opposite is true.
Hire a car from enterprise or something whilst you sort this out and it will still be a lot cheaper than 4k.
Least I know why it's so expensive now. They are covering their arse. And doing it absolutely by the book. Can't guarantee that you've got absolutely all of the bits out. So you just replace. Then the guarantee can be given. (It's *probably* parts only. So you'll still have to cover labour if it fails again.)
Plus with their hourly rate, cleaning to 100% would probably cost more than the parts. Then getting rid of the stuff they used to clean it (probably OE PAS fluid) is expensive.
Independent will probably do a similar process but won't have to use new stuff or OE parts. Might also be more willing to clean instead of replace with the lower hourly rate and no guarantee.
Back street garage will just stick it in a parts cleaner then jet wash it.
Another thing that springs to mind. Couple of the derivatives of V70 I think you need to half lift the engine and dismantle some of the corner/suspension to get the rack out.
Haha ghostly tbh with steering rack that was my first thought.
Sold a tab 4 on here that needed a rack ( all faults declared) as I looked at how it was done.
Take car apart entirely . Remove and replace rack rebuild car.....
If you are anywhere near West London, I can recommend a very good Volvo Specialist with years of experience.
If you are anywhere near West London, I can recommend a very good Volvo Specialist with years of experience.
I'm 60km due south. There are three down on the south coast which are relatively close but still a 45 minute drive to.
None of the posts the bang on about how I'm being ripped off, how main dealers are crooks, how it cannot possibly cost that much because you had a sister in law once who had this cat that they got from a bloke down the road who had a garage who can do it for free are remotely helpful but thanks all the same.
Least I know why it's so expensive now.
Yes, and thanks as your post below that was actually quite helpful.
GT
I think I get the picture:
[i]I know what. I'll spend a few hours and ask a bunch of randoms on an Internet forum what they think. Hopefully they'll tell me to get a new car. The time I've wasted on the internet looking at their replys and responding to then will kill any chance of me quickly sourcing the parts, because if I'm really honest, I just can't be bothered anyway. Either way I get to spunk a load of cash on a shiny new car. The Mrs will never know and I can justify it to all and sundry with the excuse that "I'm a very busy person".[/i]
None of us on this forum have lives to run and we have management consultants to do the donkey work for us, too. I even employ a man to fill up my car for me, as doing it myself is too much bother. If I can't get my man to do it, I simply buy a new car so long as it has a tank of fuel. I suspect the skoda dealerships (and a few Audi/BMW ones too) are kept very busy by STWers who are either too busy just to refuel or can't be arsed.
Dealers still having your pants down at 4k
I think the posts are helpful in that lots are recommending you try a couple of Indies as £4k sounds very steep. You don't want the hassle though hence that's not a helpful suggestion to you.
I'd suggest you focus your efforts on getting a good deal on a new one.
Yep getting a right deep dicking there at £4K for that. Still despite asking for advice on here the OP knows best and seems determined to pull his pants down at the main dealers, bend over and take a large one regardless!
Tbh I nearly got pantsed at an Indy for a rear axle .
1200+ vat.
Recon axle from I and m after recommendations on here for 300 quid. Knowing how long it takes me to earn 900 quid and already having a few grand in tools I'll invest a couple of days in it if needs be.
At 3/4 a day of work so far and both axles are on my garage floor with most of stuff on new axle.
Good fun too when you drive a desk all day
Buy time and hire a car for a week (?£250) give you some space to either diagnose your car or find a new one. Either way it'll save you cash if you don't have to sort asap.
Not suggesting you diy btw just pointing out we all get mad quotes at times
I could replace the full system for sub 1k reckon rack about £400 pump for about £150 pipes will flush out resrvoir will likely be cleanable aswell. Performed a similar operation on my citroen c5. Dealer wanted 1k just for the rack, i spent £300 and 3 hrs of my time to do it myself with a recon rack. That car the suspension was linked to the steering so no way id of gone with your dealers scatter gun replace everything approache. 40k later its still driving like i did the work yesterday.
Yep getting a right deep dicking there at £4K for that. Still despite asking for advice on here the OP knows best and seems determined to pull his pants down at the main dealers, bend over and take a large one regardless!
I don't think the endless references to main dealers being crooks and the whole 'pants down' thing helps - you tell someone they're stupid or worse and then you're surprised when they resent it. Fwiw, I don't think there's anything to lose by getting some alternative quotes, maybe try a Volvo owners forum for some suggestions?
Main dealers are expensive for a reason - high overheads / OE parts / conservative approach to repairs and replacement of parts etc - but that just makes them expensive, not (usually) dishonest. I wouldn't use one personally, but I don't feel the need to sneer at people who do.
Good reconditioned parts like steering racks and gear-boxes are fine, ditto quality pattern parts, but will save you a lot over genuine OE spares.
Fwiw, mostly I think people are trying to help the OP save a bunch of cash, but the semantics aren't helpful. All imho / ymmv / etc...
For heavens sake, it's not £4k read the post, it's more like £3000. The additional cost is for other work on consumables that need replacing and I've agreed in theory a 10% discount.
I'm not saying it's not a lot of money and I've already spoken to two independent garages and both have said that the most they reckon they can save me for a like for like job is £1200 and both have said they don't know how long it will take.
I don't really want to buy a new car, not even remotely. I'd rather pay down the mortgage and build an extension on the house (and then buy another new camera). I don't care much about cars; a really nice one is just too expensive and cheaper ones are dull.
If someone could give me an assurance (in theory I mean, not here) that the most the car would cost me is £3300 for the next two to three years, then consumables aside I would opt to keep it.
So no, this isn't a ruse to justify an extravagent purchase to myself and no, I am not about to spend three weeks waiting to get it fixed as that's just not compatible with the household.
No one could guarantee that on Amy car(other than a car with a 3 year warranty and even then it's not guaranteed and will cost more than 3300.
common fault on the V70 I'm afraid but there is a solution.
Sell the car to me for £3k or try this
Obtain another PS pump, they have different sized pulleys so make sure you get one the same (iirc its a 1cm difference in size )
Buy 4 ltrs of PS fluid and a couple of big magnets
selotape the magnets either side of the PS resevoir
Change pump and fill / bleed system
Go for drive . Should work OKish but may be abit grabby so change the PS fluid after a day or so.
Then change the fluid weekly , when he resevoir is empty use a torch to see if you have collected the metal parts on the magnets. I read on a Volvo site that some people hang the magnet inside the pas resevoir, then it can be removed and cleaned.
Or drop £2k getting an indy to look at it , good one in Blasingsmoke if your near there?
If the Volvo is anywhere near Spean Bridge I'll give you £200 quid for it.
[quote="trail_rat"]Take car apart entirely . Remove and replace rack rebuild car.....Heard a bit of coffee machine chat a few years ago, failed rack in an old SAAB (9000 i think). The "official" method requires pretty much dismantling the whole front of the car (engine and subframe out i think).
The engineers method is to dismantle the rack and surroundings as much as you can, cut a hole in the wheel arch, slide whats left of the rack out through the hole. Then put your new (but dismantled) rack back in. Reassemble, test and then weld your patch of metal back in. Goes from being a whole weeks worth of evenings cursing and swearing and then having a car that won't sodding start to about 4 or 5 hours.
[quote="singletrackmind"]common fault on the V70 I'm afraid but there is a solution.Depends if it's 9 years old or 9 and a bit years old. IIRC the first of the gen 3 V70s came of the production line almost exactly 9 years ago. So it could possibly be one of two extensively different cars.
It's the latter generation model.
Jeez tough crowd.....!
You do have a proper dilemma. At 77k stuff might just be starting to wear out..as an example, have you ever have the brake pads/disks done? That could be £400 and you might need it sooner rather than later, who knows.
You could get the steering pump and bits done and the car will run without another hiccup.
Main dealers will possibly replace more than they need to, they won't want you back with a reoccurring fault, you'll be a pissed off customer and they won't want that.
It sounds like the indies near you just don't want the work, why not try a few local garages.. ask around for a reccomended one. They may be able to sort you out but it sounds like a big job. Whatever happens you might be without a car for a bit.
I'd possibly try to explore with Volvo the chances of them helping a bit more. A power steering pump shouldn't really die at 77k be cheeky and try for 50/50 on parts say....
My V70 is on 191K and the original PS pump. 04 reg so different build, although if yours is a D5 chances are the pump and resevoir are the same.
Gotta be worth a punt though , the magnets and repeated flushing?
Its gonna cost you £30 max I would have thought.
You do have a proper dilemma. At 77k stuff might just be starting to wear out..as an example, have you ever have the brake pads/disks done? That could be £400 and you might need it sooner rather than later, who knows.
You could get the steering pump and bits done and the car will run without another hiccup.
The car should be good for 120-150k, more than worth it to do brakes/disks and the steering IMO. I appreciate OPs concern re: safety but I'd do the magnet/flush thing and see how it goes and see if brakes/disks could last another few 1000 miles whilst seeing how steering fares (I am sure they would I have done 8,000 miles since I was advised I should change pads/discs)
Ah yes. A Toyota main dealer told me my tyres needed changing, the rear wiper was dangerous and the brakes were 'very worn' during an agreed £120 fixed service special offer service'.....
I then said 'really? I inspected it myself before dropping it off for its MOT the day before. I remember your service manager trying to insist on me doing it with you but I'd already paid at that point'.
How many older FMDH customers are rinsed successfully?
rear wiper was dangerous
They can take your eye out don't you know, particularly if you poke yourself repeatedly in the face with it 🙂
Quick Google fu shows you can get a refurbished rack for £420, or one from a breaker (showing as in stock) for £120+vat.
Couple of hundred quid labour for fitting should be more than enough.
God only knows where they pull a figure of 3K after discount from.
http://www.volvopartshop.com/steering-rack-137-p.asp
http://www.volvobreakers.co.uk/volvo-suspension-and-steering-parts/volvo-steering-racks/
uno the dealer wants to replace more than just the rack, read the OPs subsequent posts. TBH I think the dealer wants to offer OP a "great" trade in price and have him buy a new/nearly new car
Yup or "scare" him into cutting his losses into a new car.
Kwikfit 'could you fit my winter tyres'? Yes it's £20 each wheel. Sir do you realise for just 'x' more we can sell you new winter tyres?
Upselling...the OPs car gets bumped on with the cheap fix (or sans the phantom issue)._I love most car mechanics but I'm no fan of the management/the sales side of car dealers.
Come on Op get a grip 😀