[Closed] Speeding penalty

my parents have started trundling around the UK motorway network at 50...

That's clearly too slow - I'm suggesting 30 in town instead of 45, or 70-80 on the motorway instead of 90-100

PMSL

"she needs her licence for her job"

Natural selection in motion...

speeding doesnt kill. bad driving kills.

Not seeing a speed camera [i]is[/i] bad driving. (Well, bad observation.)

I always wondered why people do 50 on a motorway. If you're doing 50, you're not in any hurry; if you're not in any hurry, why use a motorway when there's plenty of more scenic alternatives?

not a case of "sorry mate I didn't see you" - more "sorry mate you still weren't there to be seen".

Agreed (as a fellow biker). But then we're back to appropriate speed; doing 60 in a 30 round a blind bend, you're asking for the emergency services to bring a spatula.

Not seeing a speed camera is bad driving. (Well, bad observation.)

Precisely.

always wondered why people do 50 on a motorway. If you're doing 50, you're not in any hurry; if you're not in any hurry, why use a motorway when there's plenty of more scenic alternatives?

wow, just wow!

Speed limits in towns and on dangerous road help save lives and limit accidents, just an much as not driving like a c*nt does too. Yes I'm talking to the Merc driver who undertook me on a roundabout the other day if you happen to be him.

Put simply I've become a much better driver since I got a ban (that I deserved, although going from cameras that didn't work to cameras that suddenly worked took me over the edge very quickly) through an accumulation of points. I had to ride and get the bus to places for a while, luckily for me my job didn't depend on it, but if it had I'd probably have been a damn site more careful. Lesson learned I think. Move on.

Oh, and her insurance will be a beaut if she does get a ban and wants to drive again, I'd recommend hunting for cheap small cars if I were you - keeps your premiums up for at least 5 years too, such fond memories!

I once was driving a minibus on a 2 lane dual carriageway. Overtook a lorry, looked in mirror to pull back in, saw clear road. Looked over shoulder and started to move, and a car came flying up the inside slaloming between the lorry and me at well over 100mph. I was JUST about to make my manoeuvre, so just avoided a big big smash.

The point was that his speed endangered us all because when I first looked there was no-one, and in the second between then and when I started to move, he'd appeared from behind the lorry. If he'd been going slower there would have been no issue. Secondly, because I was relaxed and driving and making my manoeuvres at a relaxed pace, I had time to avoid a smash.

This is what they mean when they say 'speed kills'. More accurately, it should say 'less speed gives us all second and third chances'.

She may be guilty of speeding. But the burden of proof is on the authorities.

Ask to see the evidence. Usually they provide a blurry photo and you can't see who was driving at the time. If you're just one of a number of drivers who can drive the car, they can't prove either way that it was your wife who was driving. Unless she's the only female of course.

You're entitled to see the evidence and build your case from there.

One thing is for certain, you must provide a name for the driver so they can prosecute. Then they will send you a letter with a court date etc. When you receive this you can then retract your statement citing that you don't remember who was driving at the time. More often than not, this gets the case dropped.

I could be talking from experience, but then, I might not be.

She may be guilty of speeding. But the burden of proof is on the authorities.

Ask to see the evidence. Usually they provide a blurry photo and you can't see who was driving at the time. If you're just one of a number of drivers who can drive the car, they can't prove either way that it was your wife who was driving. Unless she's the only female of course.

You're entitled to see the evidence and build your case from there.

One thing is for certain, you must provide a name for the driver so they can prosecute. Then they will send you a letter with a court date etc. When you receive this you can then retract your statement citing that you don't remember who was driving at the time. More often than not, this gets the case dropped.

I could be talking from experience, but then, I might not be.

I'd never offer someone with 9points any advice. What if she gets off and doesn't notice a cyclist on a cloudy morning in a couple of weeks because of such helpful advice?

Let her be taken off the road. It may make her wake up.

If that's what they mean then speed kills is completely the wrong phrase. It sounds like that was undertaking which should always be done with a lot of caution, but is becoming increasingly needed given the teats that sit in the middle lane as they're scared of overtaking anything

I'm not advocating the move, just merely responding to the OP.

Even so, the burden of proof IS on the authorities and to get the process of prosecution spot on.

my parents have started trundling around the UK motorway network at 50...

That's clearly too slow

but is becoming increasingly needed given the teats that sit in the middle lane as they're scared of overtaking anything

Don't. Just don't. Seeing more and more of this. No particular group or stereotype that can be applied above a fixed stare and almost complete oblivion as to what's going on around them. Bastards. Need banning.

Jesus - I post something up on my BB, go out and do some building then come back to all this!!! You guys are harsh!

Just to add some more fuel to the fire I'll explain the situation.

She had 3 points on her licence which are due to come off in Feb 2011. Last year she had a tough year, losing her business, then being made redundant twice in the same 12 months. She has now managed to find a great job and is doing exceptionally well at it, however initially she was having to get to places in parts of the country she was unfamiliar with. Wanting to do the best she could she was so focused on learning the job and doing well that this was something that slipped (at least that's what she says)

She got 3 points back in April, then another 3 in early June. At this point we had a massive argument and I told her to sort it out. She has done so and since then has been ridiculously cautious, plus the pressure of the new job has died down and she knows where he customers are. Now when she meets her boss and they go on to meetings her boss arrives 10mins before my wife because she is driving so slowly these days.

The annoying thing is after she got the last set in June and has had the wake up call - these extra 3 come up dating back to May it was like oh my god! She was in bits as she had been so careful since June and for these to appear in mid August was a gut kicker!

If theres clear evidence that she was speeding etc, then your only option is to plead your case in court. They might see fit to delay the points until her 3 points drop in february.

Courts generally aren't complete bastards, they will listen to your case as nothing is that clear cut. Even if some people here think it is, and thank god they aren't magistrates.

edit: If you think theres a grey area you could have it looked over by a solicitor who will advise how to plead. If they think you could please Not Guilty then they could possibly get her off on a technicality or lack of evidence. But if she ends up being prosecuted after pleading not guilty they will throw the book at her big time. So its up to her, hold her hands up and plead with the court, or fight it and possibly lose, in which case she'll get ban.

If you're going to drive fast you need to be constantly aware of what's going on around you, not seeing four speed traps would point towards observation issues.

I have a rather contrary view on that I have to say, if someone were speeding I'd rather they were observing the road, traffic and pedestrians rather than looking for cameras or cops standing way off the side of the road/sat in white vans. I don't know about you but my brain filters info in different conditions and by that I mean:
Driving down the road one family member notices the person driving the other way, what clothes they are wearing and remembers what their son was doing this week. I tend to see a car driving at me, might notice the colour (but probably not TBH) and treat it as an unimportant object that I need to avoid/observe its motion. One family member sees every sign but totally mis-judges the road conditions (wet/leaves/surface) whereas I'll drive at a speed I know is sensible for the area and may not have noticed the signs.

You guys are harsh!

I don't think they are, to be fair. What your missus had to do job-wise, where she had to be, her life pressures make absolutely **** all difference to someones kid that gets hit, or someone who loses a father. We all do it, but ultimately it's not really excusable and you can't play the "i was having a bad time" card.

Sorry to say it, as it sounds like she's been through a rough time, but 3 sets of 3 points in a 3 month period points to an underlying driving issue whether that be observation or awareness or some other thing.

Personally I think more than (note more than) 6 points in any rolling 12 month period should be an automatic holiday from driving

M60 in rush hour- the amount of times I've seen silly driving probably down to stressed commuters along with countless rear-end accidents etc. I call it 'silly hour'. No one can claim external factors are the cause.

Its you whose driving. After all you can't say 'sorry officer it wasn't me it was the redundancy that caused me to drive at speed and into the back of someone'.

Harsh but true. She could be keep her licence but she'd need to put this and evidence forward at a court hearing. She'd still have the points on her licence though.

I'm not sure if she'd keep her current job though.

RE: the 50 on a motorway point

Lories are doing 56, its actualy quite plesant pootling up in the MG at ~60mph overtaking them as and when. Very low stress motoring.

Now when she meets her boss and they go on to meetings her boss arrives 10mins before my wife because she is driving so slowly these days.

Why is she driving so slowly? Why not just drive to the speed limits? Why not set off early to allow for the fact that shes travelling slower?

Why is she driving so slowly? Why not just drive to the speed limits? Why not set off early to allow for the fact that shes travelling slower?

She is being cautious and making sure she is under the speed limit and stopping at amber and red lights etc. The point I was trying to make was that when her and her boss set off from the same place to go to a meeting her boss arrive way ahead of her so even her boss has seen that she is driving much more carefully.

I should add that the company have confirmed that the points we sent within 14 days it is just that they apparently have taken time to get to her fo some reason (don't understand this as the other points which happened later arrived sooner)

I think she'll either have a ban and a fine or a big fine and no ban. A friend who drove as a job had 17 points on his licence at one point and still was able to drive. I've told her best option is to go to court.

I once saw a car travelling very closely behind a lorry. So closely that I assumed it was being towed on one of those rigid tow bars.

It turned out it wasn't, the driver had actually chosen to follow the lorry about 2 feet off it's bumper.

And the driver of the car was shaving.

I kid you not.

:-O

and stopping at amber and red lights etc

She is being cautious and making sure she is under the speed limit and [b]stopping at amber and red lights etc[/b].

Er...

Unfortunately life does suck sometimes, but you have to appreciate that driving is a task that demands attention and responsibility.

Only ever time (touch wood) a car made contact with me whilst I was on my bike, a woman drove along side me and turned left, forcing me to follow her. Fortunately it was a big ish road and there was room for me to make my unindented left. I hammered on the window and shouted, but she just drove on. I followed her to a queue a few hundred yards down the road and spoke to her.. she said she'd just come from the hospital where her husband was blablah I didn't catch it all. But still - yes it sucks that your husband is in the hospital, but that doesn't excuse you almost putting me there too! If you aren't in a condition to drive, don't! End of! Phone a cab or a friend or something.

Harsh, but road accidents are harsher.

Re 60mph driving, I also have been enjoying this activity on weekend motorways with the caravan on the back. Very nice and relaxing, but I do wish the lorries were doing 60 also, since you still have to pass them. Or drive at 56 yourself, but this seems like a crawl!

Or bloody hurt someone. Especially if stress + the need to be places at certain times is a factor.

Now all she needs to do is get a tattoo and this lot'll burn her at the stake 😉

It turned out it wasn't, the driver had actually chosen to follow the lorry about 2 feet off it's bumper.

Haha, yeh I know a few lads who were travelling back from edinburgh to cumbria.

Managed to make it back on something stupid like 10 quids worth of fuel cos they basically followed a big wagon very closely.

Bushwacked. the police have to post the NIP so that it can be expected to arrive at the Keepers within 14 days of the offence. Then 6 months to issue the summons. Failure to respond to the NIp is an offence that carries the same penalties.
All the make them prove it arguments are dangerous and can come back to bite , the standard sentence for pervert course of justice to evade driving conviction is 3 months imprisonment for a person of good character.The law is designed to catch and identify speeding drivers and the NIP response can be used in cort to identify the driver .
Your wife should get legal advise. my guess she would be best off answering the NIP giving true details she will then receive a summons. I believe she would be best advised to plead guilty ( needs to see the summons and statements first but no right to see the photo before plea entered.) She should then argue Mitigating Circumstances / Exceptional Hardship based on loss of livelihood to try and avoid the disqualification of 6 months, this if it succeeded would leave her driving on twelve points so any further offence would result in the ban ( the same exceptional hardship cannot be used again for three years.) My experience is that Exceptional hardship arguments win two out of three times we charge £400 to £600 plus vat to present simple ones in our local court.
The points count up to the date of offence so delaying till old points drop off your licence does not work.

Best of luck.

Now all she needs to do is get a tattoo and this lot'll burn her at the stake

We cool though barnsleymitch? Your not going to remove my Cig-allowance when I'm under your care are you? 😳

A friend who drove as a job had 17 points on his licence at one point and still was able to drive.

I've never been able to work this one out (or the "I've got a family" plea to get out of a prison sentence for that matter). Someone, somewhere decided that picking up 12 points in 3 years meant that you probably were such a poop driver (either through aptitude or attitude) that you don't belong on the road for the sake of the rest of us. Now I admit the 12 points and the 3 years are quite arbitrary but thems the rules and I'm not sure your job should mean that you deserve to be exempt because you drive for a profession (i.e. on the road more than most therefore increasing the risk).

"Your not going to remove my Cig-allowance when I'm under your care are you?"
Gone are the days Hora, but sadly, when I was training, s**t like that was still accepted. Still, I'm sure I could come up with something 😉

"her and her boss set off from the same place to go to a meeting her boss arrive way ahead of her so even her boss has seen that she is driving much more carefully."

why doesnt she just travel in the same car as her boss?

think of the polar bears!

She may be guilty of speeding. But the burden of proof is on the authorities.

Ask to see the evidence. Usually they provide a blurry photo and you can't see who was driving at the time. If you're just one of a number of drivers who can drive the car, they can't prove either way that it was your wife who was driving. Unless she's the only female of course.

You're entitled to see the evidence and build your case from there.

One thing is for certain, you must provide a name for the driver so they can prosecute. Then they will send you a letter with a court date etc. When you receive this you can then retract your statement citing that you don't remember who was driving at the time. More often than not, this gets the case dropped.

I could be talking from experience, but then, I might not be.

Have known this to be done a couple of times (not by myself you will understand, only ever got 3 points for speeding once, and that was almost 10 years ago), and it proved effective. In both cases it was a company car, and one of the sales reps driving, and the company asked for the evidence which proved inconsequential as to which member of the sales team was driving it at the time.

I'd never offer someone with 9points any advice. What if she gets off and doesn't notice a cyclist on a cloudy morning in a couple of weeks because of such helpful advice?

Let her be taken off the road. It may make her wake up.

The more I read your comments on life, the more I worry that there are perhaps other people out there like you! Heaven help us if you and simonfbarnes ever come to power, people will be hung drawn and quartered on the spot for not conforming to your perfect stereotype! 😕

Sometimes guys, SHIT JUST HAPPENS! And it happens to the most undeserving of people... Often for the tiniest of mistakes.

It's threads like this that remind me how glad I am we live in a democracy, and that I'm a fairly understanding kind of person. Cos with all the extremist bigots that seem to inhabit this forum, you'd think that society was ****ed quite frankly if their views represented the masses!

Good luck getting this one sorted B, bit of a rubbish position to be in, but as it's a company car she may just be able to work her way out of it if they can't prove it was her driving it at the time... Though of course be prepared for the fact that they might be able to prove it, and that she might need to get her best grovelling gear on to go down to court and plead with them!

Convert, I think that the idea is that for some people/situations, the punishment (eg the effect of not being able to drive, loss of income, etc) is excessive punishment for the crime (eg speeding). Not saying it's right, mind...

And to follow up, a friend on mine got 15 points on his license having been caught speeding (again...) on his motorbike but kept his license because at the time he couldn't walk properly (due to motorbike crash - not his fault incidentally...) and needed a car to get about. He did get a very big fine though (£3k about 10 years ago now - expensive when you're just out of uni)

convert - Member

Sometimes guys, SHIT JUST HAPPENS! And it happens to the most undeserving of people... Often for the tiniest of mistakes.

Whilst under most circumstances I might agree, this is potentially her [b][u]FOURTH[/u][/b] conviction in 3 years!

but as it's a company car she may just be able to work her way out of it if they can't prove it was her driving it at the time...

Only w*nkers like mboy above shirk their responsibility by trying to get off things they know they have done. I'm sure your wife is not a w*nker!

Mmm.. mboy seems to be advocating people trying to evade their responsibilities..?

The more I read your comments on life, the more I worry that there are perhaps other people out there like you! Heaven help us if you and simonfbarnes ever come to power, people will be hung drawn and quartered on the spot for not conforming to your perfect stereotype!

No I have close scares at least once a week with people who look straight through me or actually don't seem me until I've shouted at them.

It worries me that someone can rack up points when cameras are clearly signed before you get to them and if you see them they are bright yellow. Ontop of that the OP's partner is speeding.

If I wasn't a cyclist I'd follow alot of Pistonheaders views 'aww mate they are generating income and victimising the public' whereas when you have close-calls it REALLY DOES change your perception on drivers awareness, ability and speed.

Soon cameras will disappear which is sad in a way. Normal people have the ability to spot them. they carry our a valuable function of removing the visually impaired.

they carry our a valuable function of removing the elderly and visually impaired.

Not really. Until he finally gave up his license aged 93, my grandad was still driving but at 20mph everywhere because his eyesight was so bad. No camera would have caught him...

The fact that she is has been 'caught' speeding is all well and good, but like I said, it's down to the police to provide the evidence and from that prosecute her.

She may well hold her hands up and say 'its a fair cop' but, she is also well within her rights to fight it and test the evidence presented against her. She shouldn't be made to feel guilty because of that right.

If anyone else is in the same position, I would expect them to do the same. Test the authority held against you on the basis on evidence, and not just roll over, especially if due process is not followed TO THE LETTER!

Everyone has a right to a free and fair trial and the minute people start to think its OK to waive that right or just allow themselves to be 'processed' is the minute we fail as a free society in my opinion.

What a load of crap. If she was speeding then it's just playing the system. It's nothing to do with democracy - that's just a feeble excuse to try and avoid what is a perfectly fair punishment - clearly defined and within your power to avoid.

Next you'll be saying it's ok to cheat on benefits so long as no one can prove it or some other rubbish.

If the police posted you a letter saying that they saw you rob a bank and they intend to prosecute and you're pretty sure you didn't ( 🙂 ) THEN you're quite right to challenge it.

mtb rossi - then you are a dick - this is not a murder case ffs!