I feel a bit sorry for the OP actually - all hes got is a load of sarcastic sh1tty comments from a bunch of bitter unhelpful Daily Wail readers. I dont approve of law breaking in any form but I do approve of good manners - there is no need for all this BS. Ill echo faddas last sentiment and say Im sure that we are all reasonable people & wouldnt use the tone thats been used in some of the posts face to face. Manners cost nothing.
Honestly who here hasnt broken the law in some way? Hmm? Anyone?
Stones & glass houses spring to mind.
Yup - there seems to be plenty on here that give [url= 
]this theory[/url] some validity
Jonjones:"Anything (such as speed cameras) which take your eyes off the road is actually dangerous. Stop watching your speedo to keep at exactly 30/50/60/70 and watch the road in front of you !"
Almost right. Alternatively, "stop driving at exactly 30/50/60/70." I just cringe when I hear people come out with "Oh, you need to watch the speedo all the time now, if your speed drifts 3mph over you're in trouble", if you're so worried stop treating the speed limit as a target. Very simple concept. If you're worried your speed might drift to 73mph, drive at 67mph. It's allowed.
Anyhoo. Speed addict/repeat offender here so I'm not going to take the high moral tone on speeders, I've got no problem with speeding, just with speeding and being a c. Well, actually just with being a c now I think about it, forget the speeding.
As for the responses in this thread, it proves you don't have to be a speeder to be a c*** 
But I reckon the way the question was asked is partly the reason for that, "thieves" and "tax" was always going to provoke a reaction. If you want friendly advice there's ways to get it.
I drove from Carlisle to Bristol once in under 4 hours. 😀
I had a fixed penalty notice in July. I asked for the photo as that particular weekend it could have been me or my old man driving. They said there was no clear view of the driver. I pointed out that if I claimed that my father was driving it and it had actually been me, it would be an offense. They solemnly agreed - a very serious matter. I said that if it had been my father driving and I said it was me, it would also have to be an offense. I asked them again to provide evidence that an offence had been committed. They dropped the case.
OK 2 things reeely getting my goat in this thread
[i]It's a speed [b]LIMIT[/b] not a [b]TARGET[/b][/i], if the limit was 30 theres nothing stoping you driving at 20-25 other than your own ego telling you that you'r so important you need to get there a few second quicker.
As for the [b][i]Autobahn safety record[/i][/b], are you serious?
a) most of them now have a limit due to the huge number of deaths relative to other countries.
b) I've never seen a fatality on a british motorway despite tens of thousands of miles. I've done a couple of hundred on an 'unlimited' autobahn, the road was closed twice for fatal accidents.
Have you ever sat in the slow lane on the motorway? You get where your going a few minutes later, but its a whole lot less stressfull, no white vans, no BMW's, no Audi's, just sit back and relax.
TINAS - doing 56 on the motorway most weekends, never has a speeding ticket and never crashed (touch wood)
Bold text & caps so early in the morning - you're a tiger grrrrrrrrrr...
lay off the coffee a bit 😉
b) I've never seen a fatality on a british motorway despite tens of thousands of miles. I've done a couple of hundred on an 'unlimited' autobahn, the road was closed twice for fatal accidents.
Well that clinches it then. It's probably just as well you sit at 56mph, sounds like your brain wouldn't be capable of operating at higher speeds 😉
It is a tax. (full stop) to think it relates to safely is just gullible/naive
Around 85% of drivers have never had a speeding ticket. You'd think otherwise, but thats because people who get caught squeal so much about it that you'd think it was common place. Why devise a tax that so few people have to pay? Thats not 15% of driver paying the 'tax' every year, thats 15% who have [i]ever[/i] paid the 'tax' whether thats being caught by a camera, or being caught more sportingly (and time consumingly) by the fuzz.
The implimentation of average speed cameras (with no photos) near me have resulted in massive drop in the number of road crash related funerals, widows, orphans, smashed bodies and smashed lives, all from one short stretch of road. Its a success thats difficult to 'feel' because who knows who's lives / livelyhoods have been saved? Could it be mine? My GF's? My little nephew's? My Parents? I bunch of people who I'll never know? Yeah probably a bunch of people I'll never know, so thats fine.
Its the randomness of the risk that makes people simply not care, about themselves or the countless meaningless strangers on the roads and pavements around them, they're all idiots anyway. ****em. So the success of camera schemes is never seen as something to party about, even though saving quantifiable numbers of lives would be an act worthy of celebration and honour in any other instance. You could get a medal for it, or an OBE, a roundabout named after you. A national holiday in your honour.
I do tend to think that a financial penalty for speeding offences is failing though. Being found guilty of any crime should be a massive social taboo. Certainly nothing to bleat about, and in some cases even brag about.
When I need to make declarations of my worthiness/ suitablilty - on a job application or insurance application for instance. I'm asked if I have any criminal convictions, but told to except any motoring convictions. Why? They should be in there. They shouldn't be anything to be saved the shame of. Not any more or less than shoplifting or fraud or you know... victimless stuff.
Heres an off the cuff proposal.
If we consider that 12 points= 36 month ban
So each of the those points is actually worth 3 months in the end. But why wait til the end
You get caught speeding. Get 3 points. Get 9 month ban.
Two years later you get caught speeding again with 3 points still on your licence. 3 points+3 points = 18 month ban
And so on
I'd actually make it week per point (up until you hit 12 point/ 36 months) its plenty to get the idea across. A little ban, a little loss of liberty, compromise your home, social, work life. Shamefacedly explain your friends/family/children/employer/client that sorry, can't do that/go there because I'm not considered fit too.
How embarrassing.
Its a bloody stealth holiday, thats what it is. Its the government forcing us to take gardening leave and alphabetise our CD collection, its some sick social engineering experiment to make me use public transport and try to find ways of not making eye contact with people in case they talk to me. You'd be naive to think otherwise.
So quit your bleating in case one day I end up in charge 😀
Have you ever sat in the slow lane on the motorway? You get where your going a few minutes later, but its a whole lot less stressfull, no white vans, no BMW's, no Audi's, just sit back and relax.
I agreed with you up til that point, sitting in the inside lane is stressful and does take a lot longer to get where you're going. If I take my journey to see my family, for example, its 210 miles. At 56 sat quietly between the wagons I can get a nice 60mpg but it takes me 3:45 to get there. At 75 I get ~55mpg and I get home in about 2:50. That's an hour or so more time I have to stop and have food/coffee after work on a friday before going down, or an hour earlier I get to stop driving so I'm not still driving at midnight and waking people up when I get in. There's the incentive to hit the limit if at all possible, as my likelyhood of being in an accident is remarkably low.
Any speed inbetween (which is what I normally do, I like to stick to 65 for a compromise) and I'm furiously popping in and out of the lanes trying to avoid people flying at 75 and wagons trundling at 55. It's far more stressful. In my other car I could, and did (not proud of it etc, it was just the least-stress situation and I never forced anyone out of the way or tailgated etc), quite happily sit at 100 in the outside lane passing just about every car on the road and people tend to see your rapid closing speed and move left. When pootling along at 3mph more than the person in front you bearly close on them and they do not pull into the middle lane. If everyone did 100 it'd not work though. My current car an only just scrape past 90 so it never gets used anywhere near that.
Road deaths nationally have dropped from 3421 in 1998 to 3172 in 2006 - a reduction of seven per cent.
Where I live [Co. Durham] we don't have any fixed cameras, just one mobile unit & the death toll here has reduced by over 40%
The only other county not using fixed cameras is North Yorks, they reduced deaths by some 14% over the same period
Both chief constables put the reduction down to good policing rather than relying on the 'big stick approach'
Perhaps the people who choose to pay this extra 'tax' should be commended for their generosity?
Looking at national figures for road deaths means you are counting the stretches for roads that are policed along with the stretches that aren't. The actual areas of roads that are covered by cameras is miniscule, even when the cameras are roving. So a 7% or even 14% shift isn't really the picture.
The average speed scheme near me has seen 7 funerals in a period where you would have previously expected 22. So thats a huge shift, although the cameras have only been there a few years, so I'd want to see longer term stats. But even though the cameras cover quite a long stretch of road, its only about 5 miles, so its still only a tiny percentage of the roads in the region, the death/ accident rate elsewhere will (presumably) be unchanged. Averaged out it makes cameras seem less effective than they actually are.
Looking at the figures some more
Perhaps the most vociferous supporters of speed camera policing - North Wales - unfortunately bucked the national trend & saw a 4% rise in road deaths last year & a 18% rise in serious injuries.
I really don't believe that cameras make the roads any safer
I think cameras would make more of a difference if the prospect of getting caught was terrifying
Fixed location cameras are as pointless as speed humps in a 30 zone. Drivers learn where they are, slow for that tiny section and then race between them to make up time. Its human nature.
How about if the cameras could launch missiles instead of post fines? How about if we replaced speedy bumps with hidden, velocity sensitive IEDs.
How about if everyone had to drive about with their own name and address and their granny's phone number displayed clearly on their car rather than just a reg number, with an open invitation to come and discuss it if your driving upsets anyone.
I really don't believe that cameras make the roads any safer
They catch people speeding in specific locations. They're just one tool for road policing, or should be.
As for the OP, anyone who thinks that speed cameras are a tax (a tax on stupidity?) deserves what's coming to them.
their granny's phone number displayed clearly on their car rather than just a reg number, with an open invitation to come and discuss it if your driving upsets anyone.
Not sure she'd answer if they tried to discuss it.
Not sure she'd answer if they tried to discuss it.
Ok just the missiles and bombs then 🙂
if the limit was 30 theres nothing stoping you driving at 20-25 other than your own ego telling you that you'r so important you need to get there a few second quicker
But try passing a driving test doing 20-25 miles per hour in a 30mph zone*. You would be failed for not making good progress.
*Unless there is a good reason, for example, you are driving down a narrow residential street with cars parked on the kerbside, kids playing football on the pavement, ice cream van parked up with a big queue etc.
Anything (such as speed cameras) which take your eyes off the road is actually dangerous. Stop watching your speedo to keep at exactly 30/50/60/70 and watch the road in front of you !!
I would hope that most drivers would have a pretty good idea what speed they were doing without having to check the speedo constantly.
Also speedos generally read faster than you are going and speed cameras typically allow for a 5-10% leeway, so the idea that cameras force you to check your speed every few seconds lest you creep over the limit by 0.5mph is complete nonsense.
(and yes, although I generally stick to the limit, I do speed occasionally where I think it safe and appropriate. If I get caught then I won't be on here calling it a "tax")
But try passing a driving test doing 20-25 miles per hour in a 30mph zone
Someone fetch Smee.
When I was doing my driving lessons the instructor took me down 30mph streets and said "Generally you don't want to go above 20mph here, so stay in second."
I would hope that most drivers would have a pretty good idea what speed they were doing without having to check the speedo constantly.
You'd hope, but most people are incredibly bad at speed perception. I am. I can hold a particular speed, and I can drive at a good speed for the conditions, but I'd struggle to tell you if I was doing 60 or 65 without checkin the speedo.
speed camera thieves
So nobody's actually pinched yours then? 🙄
but I'd struggle to tell you if I was doing 60 or 65 without checkin the speedo.
Yeah okay, but you can hold a speed, so you can get to a 60, check your speed and then continue without having to re-check every few seconds.
Plus, as I said, if your speedo is reading 65 then you're [i]possibly[/i] going at closer to 60 and you're almost definitely below the trigger speed of any speed cameras in a 60.
"Generally you don't want to go above 20mph here, so stay in second."
As I said, if the conditions allow, 30mph is the expected speed. If there is any apparent risk doing so then a lower speed is acceptable.
I was trying to make the point that you will be failed for not making good progress when it is safe to do so.
Don't fetch Smeetrollzoogoanfighter though. Please.
How about if the cameras could launch missiles instead of post fines? How about if we replaced speedy bumps with hidden, velocity sensitive IEDs.
You'd get a lot of dead paramedics, policemen and firefighters....
Surely it would be much better just to legislate that all vehicles are fitted with a sealed device that makes a really irritating continuous beep when you exceed the posted limit?
That would take care of the [i]"I didn't know I was speeding"[/i] argument, the [i]"taking eyes off the road to check speed"[/i] argument and the [i]"sometimes I briefly speed to avoid danger"[/i] argument.
😉
How about if the cameras could launch missiles instead of post fines? How about if we replaced speedy bumps with hidden, velocity sensitive IEDs.
OR.... Instead of an airbag in the steering wheel, there was a two foot long steel spike, designed to shoot out on impact. Everyone would drive at 20mph forever. Copyright user-removed.
if you want to break the law you must pay the penalty.
jeez there's some self important t1ts on here. In fact, I've been caught speeding on a fairly regular basis over the past few years and have always (that's every single time) managed to weasel out of it one way or another, so saying you [b]must[/b] pay the penalty is the standard "STW head up your own ar5e" bollox.
If you want to break the law, you have to accept that you [b]might[/b] have to pay the penalty, or spend some time on the internet ignoring the popmpus prix which abound in order to find out where the "get out of jail free" cards are.
jeez there's some self important t1ts on here
You're acting like one of them.
OR.... Instead of an airbag in the steering wheel, there was a two foot long steel spike, designed to shoot out on impact. Everyone would drive at 20mph forever. Copyright user-removed.
I think (and you'll probably hate me for this) that Jeremy Clarkson first coined this when being quizzed on his views of speeding. But instead of your lazy paraphrasing, he was distinguishing between careless driving and speeding...
Nah, I'm pretty sure the "steering wheel spike" thing was originally coined by some academic bloke talking about risk compensation and [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peltzman_effect ]the Peltzman effect[/url].
From memory he also suggested that roads were deliberately slippy, brakes rubbish and cars made of cardboard.
His point being that once you start to remove any of these things the cars get faster and the number of accidents stays the same. Any supposed "improvement in safety" is actually absorbed as an improvement in throughput. The overall risk remains fairly constant.
(possibly Gordon Tullock, as it is sometimes called a Tullock Spike)
The steering wheel spike was first mentioned in a book by John Adams - 'Risk and Freedom' in 1985
He made reference to research by Evans at General Motors, specifically:
Evans, L. 1984: Driver behavior revealed in relations involving car
mass. Conference paper, General Motors Symposium on "Human
Behavior and Traffic Safety". To be published'in a book with the
same title, edited by L. Evans and R. Schwing (Plenum Press,
1985, in press).
(I know this because John was a hugely entertaining lecturer when I was at UCL 94 - 97)
*wanders off to speed and fiddle with some kiddies, although not at the same time, as both are obviously ok with at least a proportion of STW'ers*
tnas
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The point
Dagnabbit - genuinely thought the steering wheel spike was an original and brilliant idea. In fact, I've just fitted one to the wife's car to make her a safer driver. To compensate for the 'fore-mentioned fact that this will not, in actual fact, make her any safer, I have taken the precaution of not telling her.
It will just have to be a lovely surprise.
[i](I know this because John was a hugely entertaining lecturer when I was at UCL 94 - 97)[/i]
I read his book 'Risk' from a recommendation on here. A great read!
Is this me or is this place getting full of obnoxious ejits who have nothing better than to flame some guy for a badly worded question. Grow up. If you feel the need to do 20 in a forty limit. Dont get up tight when some one wants to overtake you and actually do 40. If you dont feel confident enugh to do the speed limit, stay off the road!
As for the OP the website mentioned on the first page should help.
Surely it would be much better just to legislate that all vehicles are fitted with a sealed device that makes a really irritating continuous beep when you exceed the posted limit?
This actually works to a great extent. Two of my brothers Jap import cars have come with what can only be described as a cat-collar bell that jangled at any speed over about 65 IIRC, he found it so frustrating he's stay below it but eventually found a way to rip it out of the dash. Not sure you could ever get sealed, untamperable box though, someone would crack it.
Is this me or is this place getting full of obnoxious ejits who have nothing better than to flame some guy for a badly worded question.
You've not been here long, surely? I'm fairly convinced that every single STW member fits that description when a suitable subject is chosen.
Skipped from page 1 to page 3, so someone may have already asked how many of the self righteous can honestly say they don't break the speedlimit by enough to trigger a camera, which quite honestly isn't very much!
Well?