[Closed] Speed awareness course, what to expect?

They didn't have an answer and basically told me to pipe down.

ended up with some useful non Highway Code type facts.

That's a reasonable point actually. One of the more interesting bits was a "case study" of sorts about how many people are affected by a bad collision, down to the partners of road workers who have to listen to horror stories and so on.

My Mrs went on one and from the course taught me '3rd gear in a 30' - it works surprisingly well.

One thing I didn't get and queried

The one I challenged was the assertion that because I answered 'above average' in rating my own driving ability, I was "overconfident." Nothing to do with being overconfident, rather that the 'average' road user is a gibbon and I wouldn't trust them to be in charge of their own socks.

it works surprisingly well.

I answered 'above average' in rating my own driving ability

My Mrs went on one and from the course taught me '3rd gear in a 30' - it works surprisingly well.

I'm surprised at that. It's totally different to what the driving test teaches you, it's uneconomical driving, and it means you've more acceleration / response. I'd hazard it's harder to hold 30mph in third than fourth.

Besides. If someone's incapable of holding a speed comfortably without resorting to undergearing, they should probably consider more practice or further lessons. I reckon I could hit 30mph to a reasonable degree of accuracy without looking at a speedometer at all.

everyone is

Oh, sure. That was the point they were making I think, everyone thinks they're of above average ability. They didn't state it explicitly but it's basically the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Where the logic falls down and what they refused to acknowledge is that by definition almost half of the drivers on the road actually [i]are[/i] above average.

'3rd gear in a 30'

Whilst I agree, you can see how confusing it is, as my car's computer tells me to change to 4th at 25, and 5th at about 35, and 6th at 45. I usually ignore it, but it's quite annoying having the bloody car tell you how to drive. Of course it would be much more useful if instead of telling you that you're in the wrong gear, it told you when you were going above the limit, which considering GPS technology shouldn't be difficult to do.

so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?

I reckon I could hit 30mph to a reasonable degree of accuracy without looking at a speedometer at all.

willyboy - Member
My Mrs went on one and from the course taught me '3rd gear in a 30' - it works surprisingly well

So I shouldn't be in 5th gear in a 30mph zone? (going at 30mph I should add).

I'd hazard it's harder to hold 30mph in third than fourth.

Probably depends on the car, but I've always done the "3rd in 30" thing. Don't think I was specifically taught it but it seems very natural in my car (Focus 2.0L)

2nd in a 20 works pretty well too.

so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?

Me.

But I didn't learn to drive till I was in my 30s and only passed my test in 2007.

so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?

24yrs of driving and nothing for me. Mind you, I dont live in Derbyshire or North Wales, which having been through a couple of times appears to be entirely under the gaze of Gatsos.

I wish. Had a licence for 21 years. Been "done" twice:

Once for doing 85 on a dual carriageway (the copper was kind enough - I'd gone well over 90) when I was late for a hockey match. When asked what my job was, I rather sheepishly replied "solicitor". I'd been qualified a week..!

Second time was when somewhat distracted about the exact limit (it had been changed from a 40 to 30 a few weeks before and I just forgot when taking Mrs North urgently to hospital). Attended an awareness course for that one.

The course was very useful and made me a better driver. Surprisingly, I already knew a lot of what they asked us, but clearly wasn't as conscious about that knowledge as I could have been.

@ OP -engage, ask questions and you'll get something out of it. But be very afraid of your fellow attendees..!

Back when I was learning I was taught to change up from 1st to 2nd at 10mph, 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30.

30mph in fourth is comfortable enough for cruising along, dunno as I'd fancy being in 5th at that speed, the engine would be labouring badly I'd have thought.

Once for doing 85 (the copper was kind enough - I'd gone well over 90)

Your speedo was probably over-reading by a percentage, you were probably closer to 85 than you think.

That's just given me a sudden thought. When the copper pulled you over and went "you were doing well over 90 mate, but I'm only going to book you for doing 85," I wonder if the truth was that they [i]knew[/i] you thought you were going faster than you actually were and the patter is just a trick to make you feel grateful that you're being 'let off' when it's nothing of the sort. Sneaky buggers.

I answered 'above average' in rating my own driving ability

In which case, you're effectively holding yourself to a higher standard of driving behaviour than everyone else who would just be average.

So if you are involved in a collision/break the law it would be legitimate to apportion more responsibility to you than to the average driver.

compulsory retest

You see, I don;t think this will ever take off. The price of the administrative aggravation of administering, delivering and policing this would far outweigh the benefit. Look at this this way: 2000 deaths a year on the road is a pretty small price to pay for being able to keep a population of 60 odd million people moving around with minimal inconvenience and sizeable autonomy for many of them. (Yes, I'm being glib.)

When the copper pulled you over and went "you were doing well over 90 mate, but I'm only going to book you for doing 85," I wonder if the truth was that they knew you thought you were going faster than you actually were and the patter is just a trick to make you feel grateful that you're being 'let off' when it's nothing of the sort. Sneaky buggers.

I can't remember all the details but the conversation as I sat in the passenger seat of his car was along the lines of "The video screen in this car isn't working - you're more than welcome to come to the station to watch it there. I followed you at 85, so am going to issue you a fixed penalty notice for that."

I know that my speedo had shown over 90, so was happy not to have any further discussion (although you're right about the mythical over reading error!).

I was also told off for using my phone (within the speed limit - I put my foot down after the call*) - this was about a month before the ban came in, so all in all I think I got off lightly.

*as if that somehow makes driving and using a phone any more legitimate..!

The price of the administrative aggravation of administering, delivering and policing this would far outweigh the benefit.

dunno as I'd fancy being in 5th at that speed, the engine would be labouring badly I'd have thought.

Yes, my dad is still using his paper licence. He’s lived at the same address for 60+ years so had no reason to change it. Actually, come to think of it, it isn’t even pink - it’s green! (full licences used to be green, the same as provisional ones)

Rachel

Looks like just me and you then. Saints eh?

I've also never broken a law in my life. 😀
I did get a parking ticket once though. 🙁

Yes, my dad is still using his paper licence.

Even with the modern tests I cannot imagine still having the right to go out and drive my car 30 years later never mind 60, just seems daft.

I did get a parking ticket once though

I'd hope most instructors were very professional and knew their stuff

I'd hazard it's harder to hold 30mph in third than fourth.

Back when I was learning I was taught to change up from 1st to 2nd at 10mph, 3rd at 20mph and into 4th at 30.

In my car I change up 3rd to 4th a bit later than that, maybe 35ish (around 3500 rpm).

But don't your figures support 3rd in 30? Given that in a 30 limit you (should) be doing 20 to 30mph?

Look at this this way: 2000 deaths a year on the road is a pretty small price to pay for being able to keep a population of 60 odd million people moving around with minimal inconvenience and sizeable autonomy for many of them. (Yes, I'm being glib.)

Road deaths are not a good indicator of driving standards or the benefits of improving them though.

Road deaths are low due to advances in vehicle and road safety (air bags, impact bars, ABS, crash barriers etc). There are still plenty of collisions and terrible driving. And of course there is the immeasurable damage caused because people are too scared of the roads to cycle or let their kids walk to school or play in the street.

ergo WTF! How come I get the joy of doing a full test and having a proper photo id licence and have to renew every 10 years, when (with no disrespect meant to your dad) people who passed when the bar was set much lower also get to keep their moth eaten paper licence for over half a century?
Even with the modern tests I cannot imagine still having the right to go out and drive my car 30 years later never mind 60, just seems daft.

Just asking, as I have an old paper green one!! Well actually it's pink on the endorsement side.

D0NK - he hasn’t been driving for over half a century, he only passed his test a couple of years before me! 1986 I think.

Paper licences are not that old, really.

Rachel

Give it a try.

Bit tricky at the moment as I'm in a pool car and it's an automatic.

It's just been waffled about on Jeremy 'Daily Fail Live' Vine's show. The bloke that rang in just to say

"hur, hur, I just went on it to avoid points, didn't give a monkeys about the content, the government are mugs"

Humanity is screwed.

[i]so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?[/i]

[i]Me.

But I didn't learn to drive till I was in my 30s and only passed my test in 2007. [/i]

So not really trying then.

Been driving since I was 16, so 35 years next birthday - at one stage I was doing +40k miles pa (bikes and cars). Plenty of speeding tickets and the like over the years, most on fast A roads. And never argued one, as I know I'm 'speeding' - in fact I'm on a course in a couple of weeks 😉

One thing I really notice now is how slow everyone is going compared to years gone by. At one time 80mph on a m-way wasn't fast, even at +90mph you'd have plenty of folk overtaking. And on NSL's it seems far too many drivers have settled into 45-50mph, probably just to keep in front of the trucks?

absolutely astounded me with his dimness; the position is a stupid one (although probably held by many), but to actually gloat about it on a public broadcast is incredible

Plenty of speeding tickets and the like over the years, most on fast A roads. And never argued one, as I know I'm 'speeding'

Never understood this point of view.
If you don't agree with speed limits then why wouldn't you argue?
And if you do agree with speed limits, why break them?

It's a very queer logic. 😕

so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?

24yrs of driving and nothing for me. Mind you, I dont live in Derbyshire or North Wales, which having been through a couple of times appears to be entirely under the gaze of Gatsos.

Coo-ee. Waves from the back with 31 years of driving.

And on NSL's it seems far too many drivers have settled into 45-50mph, probably just to keep in front of the trucks?

I strongly suspect that a lot of it it ignorance; people have no clue what the speed limit is so make something up.

Almost 30 years of driving and not a single ticket or crash or other incident. Once got told off for disobeying lane rules when abroad (turning from a straight on lane or something, police were in the car directly behind, with no obvious markings!). But the cop let me off when he saw the foreign licence. I have nudged into a couple of walls/gateposts when manoeuvering a van with limited visibility, I'm not perfect.

I'm far from the slowest thing on the road, and break limits regularly, but not by a huge margin. I suspect (though I could be wrong) that people who get tickets regularly must often be driving at speeds well in excess of the limit and/or are not paying much attention to their surroundings. Maybe I've just been incredibly lucky.

....30 years of driving..... I'm far from the slowest thing on the road, and break limits regularly, but not by a huge margin.

The speed awareness course is basically pitched at you.

That's the sort of driver that is most surprised by the content of the course, and more than likely learns the most.

Sorry allthegear misread your post, now noticed it says 60yrs at same address not driving 😳
I got a paper provisional when I first had a go at learning (I won a track day so figured I better have a couple of lessons before I went) if I'd carried on learning at the time I guess I'd be in the same boat but TBH I wasn't really interested in it so stopped after a few lessons.

I just don't get why they introduced 10year licences but haven't bothered to get everyone else onto them, seems unfair - especially as renewals cost money!

Back when i learnt to drive, you actually had to have some skill to drive a car. There wasn't any of this Automatic gear stuff, or brakes that stopped you locking up, or even much in the way of powersteering etc!

I passed my test in an 1963 Landrover. Trust me, the 30mph emergency stop was a proper difficult test back then (especially on M&S crossplies, with leaf springs and a set of extremely unbalanced drum brakes full of water and mud......)

"And on NSL's it seems far too many drivers have settled into 45-50mph, probably just to keep in front of the trucks?"

ever thought that its you that could be the unsafe one there ? just because its NSL doesnt mean 60 has to be done at all costs. wont be the first time ive had cars go zooming by me only to spray their front end across the road using a deer as a blunt instrument.

Used the A34 recently trail rat?
Guessing not otherwise that statement wouldn't have been made.
The number of f***wits that will sit at 54-5mph and not move is ridiculous.
They will then pull out just as the trucks are slowing down uphill and not accelerate past but remain at 54mph.
Considering its a 70mph NSL for the entire length other than the 2 50mph section (ignoring the roadworks).
However these same drivers will go through the 50 limit at 55.
They are actually more dangerous and frustrating than those who don't know how to maintain a constant speed.
The Muppets who will come past at 90 then slow to 65, then 75 then 55 then....
And theres no reason to it or a particular Make/type either before anyone starts that one.
The standard of driving really is abysmal but to police that takes resources, cars, officers - not cameras.
The amount of times you watch them all anchor up because theres something up ahead with chevrons on it so they all sit at 58 in the outside lane...
Not one of them realising its 70 and that vehicle with chevrons on is actually a fiesta van or the fact the RTA and the Highway Code both state "keep left unless overtaking"... FFS! even the Matrix have that splashed across regularly on that road AND the M40 but seems we have a nation of drivers with severe dyspraxia 🙄

The number of fwits that will sit at 54-5mph and not move is ridiculous.

However these same drivers will go through the 50 limit at 55.

and there goes the issue .... you have the same speedlimit on the a34 - where ever that takes you (hell maybe by the sounds of it) and jimmy thinks he can do that self same speed on the singletrack NSL road outside my house - and wonders why their are tractors on it.

good radio campaign on up here atm.

"things you miss if you go round a corner too fast"

"a parked car - a tree down - being an uncle - getting a promotion - etc etc..."

and theres a similar one that just does the sound effects.

coupled with driving a classic car - makes you think about just what is a safe speed.

nealglover, I'll happily go on a course if I get caught and sent on one. Honestly, I will, I won't whine about it, and I'll hope to learn something. Until then, I'll continue driving in my own incompetent manner which has somehow miraculously managed to avoid any significant incident for almost 30y.

I can see how it might make someone a more careful driver in the short-term.
But I'm sure most people fall back into old habits after a month.
You need to shock 'em. Like at my primary school, where they took us to the local police station for a "tour", which involved being locked in a cell and shown the preserved human hand which had been chopped off in some criminal incident many moons before.
And I've not been back since!

25 years driving with no points and never done for speeding

What do I win?

WHat influenced me most was a copper speaking when he said they wanted to make speeding as antisocial as drink driving was

40 years ago no one cared about drink driving just like no one cares about speeding as we all do it.

[i]so who here has not had points/speed awareness course/done for speeding?[/i]

Me, 30 years of driving, never had a point.

Well it went OK. Instructors were good natured and reasonably entertaining and I learnt some stuff. There weren't any complete ****s on the course, so that was good.

I'm still on a paper licence only as I've not moved house for nearly 20 years. I had to take my passport along to prove my identity 🙂

nealglover, I'll happily go on a course if I get caught and sent on one. Honestly, I will, I won't whine about it, and I'll hope to learn something. Until then, I'll continue driving in my own incompetent manner which has somehow miraculously managed to avoid any significant incident for almost 30y.

You sound quite defensive. I wasn't criticising you.

Simply pointing out that people who have been driving a long time (me included) get complacent. And that is what the course is good at curing.

I've been driving 25 years, and I do almost five times the average mileage every year, so I've got "125 years" years of driving 🙂

and only one incident (sp50 six years ago, did the course) which was excellent, and genuinely changed the way I drive every day.