What can I expect...other than to feel like a very naughty boy?
You aren't made to feel like a naughty boy, at least on the one I went on. Go in with an open mind and you should learn techniques to avoid getting caught again.
They are actually quite informative, my experience is educational rather than judgemental.
Mine had fancy sparkling water and all the mint humbugs I could fit in my pockets.
They're very good but be prepared to be utterly dismayed by the sheer stupidity and closed-mindedness of 50% of the other people there... 😯
Go willing to learn something and you'll find it really useful. I did one years ago when it was a full day and the 2nd half was practical/driving coaching. Shame they don't do that anymore because it really reinforced the messages and techniques from the classroom session.
80% of the people there will be in denial that they have done anything wrong.
Just don't fall for any of that bobbins they will try to preach to you about going fast won't get you there quicker
This is a law of physics , no matter what they try and tell you.
As an aside, a fun game to play while you're waiting to go in, is to see if you can guess the nob who will argue....
Every. Single. Point.
...with the course leader.
Slight hijack but I'm just wondering how long it takes from sending back the Notice of Intended Prosecution to being offered a course ?
Asking for a friend, seriously, who got a NIP 2 weeks ago and returned it immediately,
be prepared to be utterly dismayed by the sheer stupidity and closed-mindedness of 50% of the other people there
...
Go in with an open mind and you should learn techniques to avoid getting caught again.
And
Just don't fall for any of that bobbins they will try to preach to you about going fast won't get you there quicker
Go in with an open mind and you should learn techniques to avoid getting caught again.
I can think of a very obvious one...
Very interesting...I enjoyed mine and still think back to it often.
About 18 months ago.
To be fair the guy delivering the course had a hostile audience initially but did a good job of winning the room around.
sheer stupidity and closed-mindedness of 50% of the other people there...
It's that magic 50% figure again!
Very interesting...I enjoyed mine and still think back to it often.
Oddly enough, I only think of mine when the subject comes up, like now.
One thing I did learn, was why they put a speed camera on a dual carriageway before it was even open, and why said dual carriageway had a 50 limit instead of 70.
Are you going to tell us then?
slackboy - Member80% of the people there will be in denial that they have done anything wrong.
What did you do wrong?
I sped to get mine, unfamiliar road and never saw the camera, missed the signs and flashed at 37 in a 30. Went in with an open mind and enjoyed it, I even think I might be a slightly less dangerous driver as a result.
Big percentage of people in the room with me were idiots.
You know what, it's not that bad, you'll learn ( or re-learn ) some stuff, realise the consequences of what can happen if you do have a speed related accident.
There will defo be more than one person who's been "wronged" by the system for sure!! It was a bit of an eye opener from the exec bloke to the church going Hyasyenth Bucket type who was full of Venom for getting a ticket!!
Me, well I wasn't concentrating on my speed and drive too fast so fair cop, I deserved to be pulled up!
During the coffee break at my one, war stories were being shared, most people were arguing that they had been caught unfairly, in fact all of them were if I recall correctly.
As they turned to me to hear my speeding story I said "Like the rest of you I was driving like a ...... " and went back to wait for the thing to start. Oddly enough, nobody spoke to me again after that, no lasting friendships were made.
I will admit the actual thing was shit, but that was more the presenters than anything else. I have friends and family who have attended ones which they felt were very good, because of the quality of the presenters.
I will admit the actual thing was shit, but that was more the presenters than anything else. I have friends and family who have attended ones which they felt were very good, because of the quality of the presenters.
This was my experience too..... the presenter was about 70, and couldn't be more condescending if she tried. She was unable to explain even basic concepts clearly - and threatened to "expel" anyone that appeared to disagree with her (ie: by asking a question).
I sat at the back an said nothing for the whole 4 hours, which dragged like an eternity - in that respect, it was an excellent punishment.
I enjoyed mine. 2 very good instructors who added a good level of humour.
Why did I need to go? Drove happily towards a camera van that I knew was there driving at 35 as I thought the road was a 40 not a 30 ! So I learnt something about repeaters signs, lamp post spacing etc,....
you will be able to view a large variety of neck tattoos.
It might make you think about what led you to being caught...in my case I realised the delivery van I was driving was now being loaded to the vans wieght limit rather than what was doable in the allocated hours..told the boss that I was going to get caught again and/or have an accident..neither which I felt was responsible or sustainable...he didn't agree and I walked...kept in contact with other drivers and routes/drops have now got even bigger!
Just don't fall for any of that bobbins they will try to preach to you about going fast won't get you there quicker
Don't forget they have to make it simple for the hard of thinking segment who are there because they did nothing wrong.
you will be able to view a large variety of neck tattoos
My course had a very disparate make up of people. More elderly biddies than anything.
They may have had neck tats. Couldn't see due to scarves.
sheer stupidity and closed-mindedness of 50% of the other people there..
Sadly, that won't include the absolute tool in the silver peugeot who was using the 30mph zones in villages yesterday as the opportunity to overtake the massive, continual line of traffic on bank holiday yesterday. 👿
I did one a few years ago.
The instructor was completely anti cyclist, almost to the point of "they don't pay any road tax". Plenty of agreement from the within the group as well.
Bellends the lot of them.
The only time I ever got caught speeding was when I was a copper .... and in an unmarked car! They offered me a driver awareness course I took the points. There is lots of positive feedback about the course however, I just was unwilling to pay the extra £20 when I was already aware of the dangers of speeding and I'd just had a stupid day!
you will be able to view a large variety of neck tattoos
Most people in my gym have tattoos everywhere, it just seems to be an 'under 30' thing now....
Just don't fall for any of that bobbins they will try to preach to you about going fast won't get you there quicker
I've been on one, found it very useful in a sort of "oh, hadn't thought of that" type of way. "Third gear hold" was a technique I hadn't really appreciated (stay in 3rd in a modern car in a 30mph zone as it's very easy to creep up if you shift to 4th).
Though I did have a row with the convenor - when asked for reasons why people were speeding, I said "because I wanted to get there quickly". She said that it's a fallacy, I pointed out it's physics - if I drive to the same spot faster than another car, I will get there more quickly.
Still, saved me the points... 😆
it just seems to be an 'under 30' thing now....
Not unlike many of our roads.
Never ceases to amaze me how many people "learn loads" from these things. If you're learning loads you shouldn't have been on the roads in the first place, book some lessons.
"Third gear hold" was a technique I hadn't really appreciated (stay in 3rd in a modern car in a 30mph zone as it's very easy to creep up if you shift to 4th).
You can achieve much the same effect by throwing five pound notes out of the window.
"Third gear hold" was a technique I hadn't really appreciated (stay in 3rd in a modern car in a 30mph zone as it's very easy to creep up if you shift to 4th).
I used to use 6th in my V6 Golf, it was the only gear where the slightest tap on the accelerator wouldn't launch the thing forward like a rocket....
Jakester - Member
"Third gear hold" was a technique I hadn't really appreciated (stay in 3rd in a modern car in a 30mph zone as it's very easy to creep up if you shift to 4th).
I remember being taught that when I learnt to drive in 1994. 1st up to 10, 2nd to 20, 3rd to 30, hold. Fine for a 1litre Metro, but not convinced otherwise or sure how it translates to my modern 8 speed automatic which is likely in 8th at 30mph.
I remember being taught that when I learnt to drive in 1994. 1st up to 10, 2nd to 20, 3rd to 30, hold.
30, into fourth, I was taught (a couple of years prior to that).
Sounds like bad advice to me. It's a lot easier (and more economical, so better for environment and wallet) to hold a speed in a less responsive gear.
Just don't fall for any of that bobbins they will try to preach to you about going fast won't get you there quicker
Open road, fair enough, but that doesn't happen that often.
How often do people complain on here about pointless overtakes from cars in traffic? "You just get to the next red light quicker."
One thing I found useful from my course was the maths of allowing more space in front - most people concertina into less than a second spacing, because they say people will cut into a 2 second gap. Chappy invited us to consider an hour on the motorway, every minute someone cuts in front into your 2 second gap, and you drop back to open up a new 2 second gap to new car in front.
This will destroy your journey time to the tune of 60 seconds. Cue a wave of realisation across the room that the penalty for calm driving is negligible, the rewards for aggressive, entitled, wound-up driving are so slender.
More of this kind of understanding would be great: traffic happens, allow enough time for your journey, get there relaxed and safe. Fewer accidents, fewer deaths, fewer fights, fewer road-rage threads on here, less bandwidth on youtube...
[quote=Jakester ]"Third gear hold" was a technique I hadn't really appreciated (stay in 3rd in a modern car in a 30mph zone as it's very easy to creep up if you shift to 4th).
I've heard of that one without having to go on a course. I use 4th gear in a 30 in order to save fuel and decrease pollution, and rely on a light right foot and paying attention.
You can achieve much the same effect by throwing five pound notes out of the window.
Actually, there's sod all difference (at least in our car), maybe 0.1mpg worse. 30mph happens to be about the speed that moving into fourth gear "feels right" in our car. It's a useful technique as is having the window open so you get more environmental feedback - if you live in Yorkshire this does mean that the interior of your car is soaked from the horizontal rain 😆
Cougar - ModeratorIt's a lot easier (and more economical, so better for environment and wallet) to hold a speed in a less responsive gear.
Not down a hill it's not.
Horses for courses.
[quote=nedrapier ]Open road, fair enough, but that doesn't happen that often.
How often do people complain on here about pointless overtakes from cars in traffic? "You just get to the next red light quicker."
Happens often enough for me to have been caught speeding twice on one! I've seen similar comments a lot on here - which simply suggests that those making them live somewhere different to me and/or drive at different times. Yes I do plenty of driving on congested roads, but also plenty on roads which are empty enough that the time it takes to get somewhere has an inverse relationship with the speed you drive at (the first time I was caught was doing 85 in a 70 limit - driving at that speed got me to my destination 20 minutes earlier). A significant proportion of my driving at the moment is on a trip where about half the time I'm limited by other vehicles, but half the time if I'm so inclined I can get there significantly quicker by driving faster and making use of overtaking spots (I'm normally chilled and have plenty of time so drive slower to save fuel, but it is a nice road to drive when not in a queue of traffic).
Not down a hill it's not.
Good point, I'd engine brake downhill (and laugh at the car in front dabbing the brakes every ten yards). But using the engine to make you go rather than slow, you're better off in a higher gear.
but also plenty on roads which are empty enough that the time it takes to get somewhere has an inverse relationship with the speed you drive at
Yup, true, and I do the same. Reduce the overnight drive back from the Alps by an hour? Umm, yes please.
The other point is still very valid and well worth the effort to get it into more poeple's heads.
Definitely, ned - hadn't ever done the time analysis, but have realised that I personally get a lot less stressed if I don't worry too much about people pulling into the gap I'm leaving on the motorway - I pretty much always leave a gap big enough to pull into but it's surprisingly infrequent how often it happens.
Clearly there's a big difference between driving fast (when the road permits it) and driving aggressively in order to get one or two cars ahead in traffic.
Jakester » "Third gear hold" was a technique I hadn't really appreciated (stay in 3rd in a modern car in a 30mph zone as it's very easy to creep up if you shift to 4th).
Didn't really know that was [i]a thing[/i], but it's what I generally do in my car (2.0l petrol Focus) as it seems to sit pretty nicely at that.
Not sure if the Focus is unusual in this respect (I'm really not a car person) but 3rd does seem to have a pretty big "happy range". 4th is okay at a steady 30mph, but would struggle a bit in a 30 limit where I'm likely to be regularly dropping down to 20mph-ish.
Clearly there's a big difference between driving fast (when the road permits it) and driving aggressively in order to get one or two cars ahead in traffic.
That's the bit that lots of people struggle with unfortunately.
I was caught- red-handed, bang to rights, it's a fair cop guv- coming out of a 30 into a 50. I just sped up too early like the massive idiot I am. Mea culpa. The course is still cheaper and preferable to points and a fine though.
I do try to drive calm the odd time I need* to drive anywhere, leave loads of room in front for people to win/dive into if they need to, and generally leave loads of time to get where we're going.
* but we try to walk or cycle if we can, just because driving [i]anywhere [/i] seems to be a massive PITA. I'm seriously considering an e-assist utility bike sort of thing.
I was caught- red-handed, bang to rights, it's a fair cop guv- coming out of a 30 into a 50. I just sped up too early like the massive idiot I am. Mea culpa
I got caught the other way around. Slowing from a 50 to a 30 and hadn't quite slowed enough. If they'd pinged me a couple of seconds later I'd have been within the limit.
Just don't fall for any of that bobbins they will try to preach to you about going fast won't get you there quickerThis is a law of physics , no matter what they try and tell you.
As with most people who quote laws of physics, they don't do it very well.
The point the instructors are trying to make is that whilst you might get there slightly more quickly, the difference is negligible and far less than you think it's going to be.
For example, I could save ten minutes coming back from Farnborough to Cardiff, about 125 miles, by driving as fast as I could - with all the speeding Audis in the outside lane. 2h04 instead of 2h14. Used about 20% more fuel and was a lot more dangerous. I won't deny it was more satisfying at times, but it felt way faster than it actually was.
The instructors made the point that if you speed through a typical 30mph village or town your only save seconds, but you are taking a far greater risk with everyone else's safety.
[quote=molgrips ]As with most people who quote laws of physics, they don't do it very well.
...
The instructors made the point that if you speed through a typical 30mph village or town your only save seconds, but you are taking a far greater risk with everyone else's safety.
I've never been on a course, so don't know first hand, but from all the reports I've seen it's the course instructors who don't make their point very well (by trying to make their point with black and white statements which are fundamentally incorrect). I'm not sure there is anything wrong with the laws of physics being quoted on here. Given the lack of application of such statements to situations where I've been caught, I'm still glad I didn't bother when given the option.
As already discussed I did save 20 mins on my journey (20 mins more riding my bike) and ned reckons he did save an hour, which is believable.
by trying to make their point with black and white statements which are fundamentally incorrect
They never said it was no quicker to speed. That's obviously incorrect.
They said it was not significantly quicker. Which is true, unless you are driving a really long way. They backed it up with maths. It's a case of Chinese whispers - if one person says 'it's not significantly quicker' the next will say 'it's hardly quicker' which becomes 'it's no quicker'. Then someone will say 'oh that's not scientifically possible' and fail to realise that they are building a straw man when it should be perfectly obvious what the original point is.
No-one would say it's not quicker to go faster. It's nonsensical, so you must question why it's being reported rather than coming over all cocky disproving it.
The take home message is: you should only speed on long journeys 😆
Gosh, aren't we all superior today! As usual, glad to see the standard 'driving gods' in evidence 😉
I wasn't saying that EVERY time I drive in a 30mph zone I now religiously use 3rd gear, revving at the limiter like a caged boy racer; rather that in certain areas (such as the hitherto higher-speed areas now restricted to 30mph and lower in Bristol) it can be a useful technique.
Just like a light right foot and paying attention.
I was trying to point out that, rather than being a complete waste of time, the speed awareness courses could be constructive as the intention is to improve your driving, not punish you for breaking the law. Go in with an open mind, and you may find you benefit.
[quote=molgrips ]They never said it was no quicker to speed. That's obviously incorrect.
Ah, so it's not a problem with the physics, but with the reporting of the courses? 😉
Ah, so it's not a problem with the physics, but with the reporting of the courses?
Well, to be fair, the people on the course are the ones who didn't see the speed limit sign and/or the camera so they might not be the most attentive. Maybe they weren't really listening
😉
OP here - I was going faster than I should have been at the time. I got caught.
Went along with an open mind. It was very informative as you're reminded of how much you had forgotten - you knew it all once but after 20-plus years of driving you develop bad habits...when was the last time you looked at the Highway Code? The instructors were engaging enough and it went quick - I came out glad I'd gone and it didn't feel like a chore/waste of time.
Whilst I was sat in the car (arrived 30 mins early) reading STW mag, I looked up to spot some classic parking moves...I sat jaw open as someone reverse parked into a space at a crazy angle, scraping the passenger side rear bumper against the car next to her - so much so the parked car rocked. She then drove forward - scraping again - then reversed so they were parallel but 6 inches apart so move jostling pack and forth til she was happy...then she sat in her car without getting out. I took a pic of both reg plates unsure whether to say anything. I'd be livid if I came out to find my car like that knowing the perpetrator had done one, so I mentioned it to one of the instructors discreetly before everyone legged it at the end - turns out the offender was sat on my table of four....right next to the owner of the car she had lovingly caressed! Felt a bit of a 'grass' but thought it was taking the piss being on a driver awareness course and doing that - the dozy bint said she was completely unaware she'd even done it when the instructor mentioned it to her!
Sounds like she needs a bit more than an awareness course!
[quote=rascal ]when was the last time you looked at the Highway Code?
A paper copy - a long time ago, possibly not since I passed my test almost 30 years ago. However the online version is invaluable for [s]proving your point in arguments[/s] discussions on here 😉 - the side effect of which is reasonable familiarity with it.