i dream of days like that
good timing, i looked tonight and my starter had just about doubled, so thats promising. i fed it again this morning just so i could monitor it all day, so its taken about 14 hrs to do this.
now a starter thats ready last thing at nights no good to me so it looks like ive got to adjust my feeds. with that in mind i had to choose between leaving it to die down, not feed it again in the morning and then feed evening time so that itd be ready for a bake the next day, or..... remove most while its still doubled, feed again now and see how that goes by tomorrow.
ive chosen that option. took mebbes 100g out, left 30g(ish) and topped up with another 50g/50g. will it die again? will it be spilling out the top? who knows.
just a question about the stuff ive removed from it. ive now got mebbes 150-200g of dead starter in another jar in the fridge (i hate chucking it away).
say its 200g, can i assume that can now be 100g/100g flour/water thatd be ok for mixing for my next loaf? after all thats what it is isnt it, just flour and water. or should it really be binned or used for flatbreads/pancakes or somethings?
just out of the oven.... practice does indeed help.... my 4th attempt at sourdough.... you just got to tweak the recipe to your liking..
Superb davyg! 👏🏻
I even threw together a DIY dutch oven..... lmao
Saw this and made me smile.
I am not saying that a sentient sourdough culture created
COVID-19, I am just suggesting that we should look very closely
at who has benefited most from this virus?
can i assume that can now be 100g/100g flour/water thatd be ok for mixing for my next loaf?
I think the yeast has acted on the carbs in the flour, it's what results in the 'sour' smell. As a result it won't work as well as fresh flour and water mix. I'm not saying it won't work at all, just that it may not ride as well. I'm no expert though!
I had a really good loaf last week with a smallish amount of the rye (campillou) flour, so I've upped the quantity for this week and fingers crossed it seems ok so far. Oven was still warm from some biscuits though, perhaps started the first prove a little too enthusiastically!
I think the yeast has acted on the carbs in the flour, it’s what results in the ‘sour’ smell. As a result it won’t work as well as fresh flour and water mix. I’m not saying it won’t work at all, just that it may not ride as well. I’m no expert though!
i was going to say there is no yeast in it yet, but of course you mean the natural yeast from the starter dont you. point taken, i just used it in a 'moroccan bread' mix that ive done for tea tonight with a tagine. that breads always a bit dense and flat anyway, so wont notice the difference 😀
my starter has juuuuust about doubled from last night, so again that was about 14 hours. sooooo.....ive just started mixing the 'bake with jack' loaf, see how that goes. left the scrapings in the starter jar and back in the fridge for a few days.
itll ferment in the fridge overnight and ill probs bake it tomorrow lunchtime or somethings, ill post the results tomorrow.
This took 2 weeks of coaling into life which I hadn't previously needed to do. Were friends now.
https://imgur.com/gallery/rd4VvAb
Wow, there's some great looking loaves on this thread, and given the general lack of experience, some natural baking talent. It took me ages to get to this point.
remove most while its still doubled, feed again now and see how that goes by tomorrow.
ive chosen that option.
That was the right choice. If it's at its most active, best thing to do is either use it or feed it again for later. In terms of timing, you can control it to an extent with temperature. If you feed your starter in the morning and are going to be out all day and want to make the dough late in the evening, feed it with cold water and keep it somewhere cool. If (as I did the other day) you forget to get your starter out of the fridge and need to get it going pronto, feed it with warm (not hot - I think <40degrees is probably safe) water and stick it in a warm oven (I put mine on the lowest setting for 20 mins or so, then turned it off and put the starter in). By doing it warm, I can have an active starter from cold in 3 or 4 hours.
just a question about the stuff ive removed from it. ive now got mebbes 150-200g of dead starter in another jar in the fridge (i hate chucking it away).
say its 200g, can i assume that can now be 100g/100g flour/water thatd be ok for mixing for my next loaf? after all thats what it is isnt it, just flour and water. or should it really be binned or used for flatbreads/pancakes or somethings?
I think nobeer's probably right on this - the yeast has already eaten the sugar in that flour, so it won't work as well. The yeast starts to feed on the main bulk of flour when you mix the dough. I made flatbreads with the last couple of weeks of discard (been in a jar in the fridge) last night. Dead simple: mix roughly half and half with fresh white flour, kneaded it for a couple of minutes with plenty of flour to make it easy to work (probably ended up quite low hydration, but it's fine for this). Stretched it flat and left it on the worktop for an hour or so. No visible rise, but puffed up nicely under the grill (so nicely a few bits burnt onto the grill from the shelf 4" below).
Look forward to seeing how your loaf turns out today.
I am not saying that a sentient sourdough culture created
COVID-19, I am just suggesting that we should look very closely
at who has benefited most from this virus?
😀
Some more breads what I made:
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A couple of those batches are 75% white, 25% spelt, which seemed to have worked out OK.
A friend who works in Waitrose has just set me up with some wholemeal, so a bit of variation from pure white on the way. Speaking of which, off to shape some loaves and get them in the fridge now.
eh up Jimmy.... have you given your starter a name yet......? , mine is called "Sophie"
My son's partner says that she is sick of him feeding his fridge based Tamagotchi and not using it to bake with yet.....LOL
My starter, Covid the Breadarian, is only 5 days old, but I wanted to try this no kneed super abbreviated recipe
https://bakerbettie.com/no-knead-sourdough/
Turned out not bad considering and very tasty.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aqAkEjwSdd4RuNOVTZjAQK7acyhGydyg/view?usp=drivesdk
Looks good longdog!
I think nobeer’s probably right on this – the yeast has already eaten the sugar in that flour, so it won’t work as well. The yeast starts to feed on the main bulk of flour when you mix the dough.
he was indeed right, the bread was sh1t 😀
I made flatbreads with the last couple of weeks of discard (been in a jar in the fridge) last night.
i think thats what id try next, although i plan on not having any discard now, just scrapings in the fridge.
Look forward to seeing how your loaf turns out today.
then i shall show you my good man. went through different emotions throughout the process, contentment, concern, happiness, then a slight come-down.
i did the 'bake with jack loaf' ^^^, exact same measures (well, halved as he made two loaves) and was pleased to see initially that my mix looked the same. however, on first folds as i stretched it out it felt lumpy, so i was worried it hadnt mixed well enough. watched the vid again afterwards and he fast forwards his mixing, so im wondering if i just didnt mix it enough. i was worried id have lumps of dry flour in there.
also throughout the series of stretch and folds, mine was always a bit sloppier than his, no tidy folds, just sloppier dough that i made my best effort with.
as the process neared the end tho it was firmer and i was happier. baked the loaf and.... ta-daaaaaahhh.
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i was well happy with its appearance, obviously didnt slice it deep enough with my razor blade, but i was happy with the rise and excited to cut into it and try it. itd risen well so its got to be airy, right? 😀
so, waited a few hours to cool and then in we went....
this was my slight come-down after thinking itd be pretty much spot on.
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doesnt look toooo bad in the photo but in the flesh its a bit dense and chewy, with that sort of sheen that gives it a bit of a 'crumpet' texture if you know what i mean. bit disappointing. nice enough tho, and will also make good toast for my eggy-wegs tomorrow.
ill keep trying tho, looking for improvements. bit more flour in the next mix to lower the hydration, more time mixing it, and a better slash with the razor.
hopefully ive got my timings sorted for my starter now. the scrapings are in the fridge, ill take it out during a morning, let it warm til lunchtime, feed, then leave til next morning and hope for some bubbles.
thinking about it, the bastard will probably be dead and ill chuck the towel in 😀
thanks for your advice, learning all the time.....
Covid the Breadarian
Lol.
Mines called Anne. After Anne Widdecombe, the sourest of the sour.
bah, my starters playing tricks on me.....
hopefully ive got my timings sorted for my starter now. the scrapings are in the fridge, ill take it out during a morning, let it warm til lunchtime, feed, then leave til next morning and hope for some bubbles.
thought id have another go using those times ^^^
take the scrapings out the fridge, warm up til lunchtime, feed, then leave til next morning as per the last one. but.....starter had doubled by around 9pm this time instead of the morning! dohhhh.....what do i do, decisions decisions. bin half my starter and stick it back in the fridge? tempting, but i thought id experiment.
im also out all morning tomorrow and part of the afternoon too.
googled away at no-knead methods where i dont have to do folds every two hours or so, found some that said mix and leave out for 10-12 hours, thats still not much use to me.
so..... im gambling. following a happyfoodie no-knead recipe, ive just mixed flour/water/starter, leaving for an hour to autolyse, then adding salt, but instead of leaving out at room temp for 10-12 hours its going in the fridge til i can allocate some time to it, probably tomorrow teatime. mebbes do some folds and shaping and then bake it before bedtime.
anyone want a guess as to how itll turn out? 😀
i think im going to just take it out, get it to room temp, then do the 'bake with jack' folding method if the mix will let me. ill make it up as i go along.
on the plus side, im happy that my scrapings have produced a bubbly starter, thats promising.
I made a sourdough yesterday following the BBC Paul Hollywood recipe. Came out well but a bit more like a French Boule (soft white, fluffy inside) than a chewy centre with lots of bubbles in it. Whats gone wrong? Is this over or under poveing???
Also, Im trying again today using the bread maker to do the mix / kneed / first prove. The recipe for the breadmaker (panasonic) says its just goes into the oven and no knock back or second prove?? Can this be correct?
eh up Jimmy…. have you given your starter a name yet……?
Oh, now then. Naming duties are given to my 4yo daughter these days. I'll see what she comes up with.
Next batch of what was supposed to be baguettes turned out super wet and unmanageable for me, so I put them in a loaf tin and turned out ciabatta!
Minute steak, gouda, fried onions...
Got a family request for pizza tomorrow evening.
^^ that looks ace!
It was Blackflag and then my wife came and stole half of it LOL!
New to the whole sourdough thing - though have been making yeast bread for yonks. My first attempts at a starter all failed horribly so I ended up buying one, feeding it for a week. Seem to have nailed the timings around the working day now too
My 2nd batch from yesterday am;
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I used the method as outlined by this chap; his no-knead 'beginner' soughdough Joshua Weissman
That last loaf looks great @sadexpunk. I know what you're getting at with the crumb, but it looks really well risen, and as @nobeerinthefridge said a couple of pages ago, a really open airy crumb looks great but a bit of a denser texture is more practical.
Re. stretching and folding regimes, I'm not no expert, but I can tell you what's worked for me. I started with the basic sourdough recipe from theperfectloaf.com, which calls for 3 sets of stretches, at half hour intervals after you've mixed the dough. I've always tried to stick roughly to that, but I'm really forgetful and I've left it for a couple of hours and then stretched and folded, or just completely forgotten to do any stretching at all, and it's not been disastrous by any means. With conventional bread you do all the kneading at once before it rises, so I would say if your schedule of a couple of hours between folds isn't convenient, just shorten it. I don't see any reason why you couldn't retard it in the fridge (or just at room temp really) for a bit til your ready either.
Made a couple of loaves with the wholemeal flour my friend gave me. I've been experimenting with longer fermentation and prove times since I have the flexibility being at home. Rather than just sticking to my schedule, I've let the dough sit until it's filled the bowl I mix/ferment in, and then in the fridge til it's brimming out the top of the loaf tin. Got some nicely risen loaves this way. This looks a bit dense though - to be expected with wholemeal (this was 33% I think) but going to try a higher hydration because it seemed quite dry.
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Starter fed for a wee folding session tomorrow. 👌🏻
ive done a few folds since teatime but im a bit pissed now so have decided to chill the bread in the fridge overnight rather thn bake tonight.....
ill stick it in the oven in the morning if it hasnt overproved by then and become a big sticky mess. its certainly been a fair old while since i started it, im hoping the fridge is my friend when it comes to bread.....
turned out nice.....pleased with that. ill let it cool down for a few hours, hope the inside is just as good.
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Looks good buddy, enjoy!.
ive done a few folds since teatime but im a bit pissed now so have decided to chill the bread in the fridge overnight rather thn bake tonight…..
You've got familiar enough with the vagaries of your yeast cultures that it works for you now, rather than the other way round. Welcome to the next level 😉
Well impressed with some of these! I changed to the bake with jack stretchy method, as I was not having success kneading it like the recipe on Hobbs bakery. Much much better. Second attempt today, I’ve even got the scalpel and a fresh blade out for the slash. Excited!
hope the inside is just as good.
well its certainly passable, tastes very nice indeed, and not so much of that 'crumpety-like' texture this time. crunchy crust and chewy, just how i like it.
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@sadexpunk that looks lovely and a perfect vessel for transporting vast quantities of butter and cheese 😋. I’ve 2 to go in the oven this morning after a cold prove for 17 odd hours...will report back later.
Baked my first loaf this morning.
A bit flatter than I'd like (slumped when it came out of the basket probably due to poor shaping) but tastes great not dense and the crust is amazing.
Second loaf looked worse and has been reshaped and is rising again in a pyrex dish this time - I'll bake that later this morning.
Going to check out the bake with Jack videos.
The Ciabatta I made yesterday disappeared when I went for a ride and I'm expecting the same fate for the sourdough 🤦🏻♂️
Made a mess of slashing one
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I've made 5 or 6 loaves now. However, three of them have been pizzas. I'm happy with the starter, folding goes alright and the dough rises loveley. The only time I've really had a loaf is when I baked in a tin. Any tips for keeping the dough in shape?
Proving in the fridge overnight in banetons works for me.
@eulach if you have a casserole dish, bake in that. First 20 minutes with the lid on, then last phase without. Keeps shape and you get more moisture in the dough after.
I managed a 50% campillou, 50% white today that came out really well. It's perhaps a little overhydrated, but it'll toast perfectly and the crust is chewy and lovely!
I have a casserole that I inherited from my Nan (gawd bless 'er) but it has no lid. I shall look into banetons or ebay for a 1970's pyrex lid. Thanks, chaps.
well im happier with my starter now, it seems that i can leave it in the fridge for a few days, then take it out of an evening, let it warm to room temp, feed it, and the 'scrapings' will ensure it doubles in size by morning.
a question on that if i may...... as i say, its pretty much doubled in size, so i use it. is there anything to look out for to show that its actually in decline? i was wondering about leaving it longer to see if it more than doubled, but was scared of 'losing the right moment' and it deflating.
latest loaf is just 'ok'. i was sure id scored it pretty deeply but it appears not.
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i use a DE razor blade. yes this time it seemed to 'pull' a bit as i cut through it, but it still seemed to go through. maybe i should ask 'which blade for cutting dough' on the DE shaving thread 😀
the moment of truth, cutting into it and hmmmm......not too sure. that 'crumpety' texture again and large holes. something in the back of my mind says 'overproving' for large holes, wotcha reckon?
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few more slices into it and it looks a little more regular....
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id been watching a few vids on higher hydration mixes, and i believe its 'wetter is better' is it not? better rise/oven spring etc?
so i mixed with 10g more water this time, i thought ill keep adding a bit more each mix til it becomes too wet to work with properly, what do you think?
also another consideration, this no-knead method. my first loaf had pockets where it obviously hadnt mixed properly, maybe too little time mixing, but.... it just made me wonder whether you do actually have to knead it in some way to get all the ingredients mixed together adequately, rather than just a shaggy mess where the flour may not be fully hydrated.
also the difference in appearance in the two pics ^^^ just a few slices apart.
again, interested in opinions on all my points please.
EDIT: appearance aside, it still tastes lovely which is the main thing, and the crust is chewy too.
something in the back of my mind says ‘overproving’ for large holes, wotcha reckon
Looks like you didn't knock it back after the final proving.
Looks like you didn’t knock it back after the final proving.
ive never followed a recipe yet that calls for it to be knocked back?
am i missing something? anyone else knock back their dough?
thanks
Looks like you didn’t knock it back after the final proving.
Sorry that should have said 'first proving' .... thanks phone!
If you don't knock it back (and add some extra olive oil) you'll end up with ciabatta.
I'm using the Paul Holywood book and you knock it back/repeatedly fold it for a couple of mins then let it prove a second time otherwise you end up with big air pockets.... like yours!
After first prove I shape and bench rest, knocks 'some' of the air out. I wouldn't knock it about too much. After second prove it's straight from the fridge into the hot casserole dish and over for me. I got some decent bubbles this time, nothing quite as extreme as your though @sadexpunk
this is the recipe im using, a series of stretch and folds.
what would you class as the 'first prove', and at what stage would you 'knock back' the mix here?
have to admit i get a bit confused with whats a prove and whats a fermentation.... 😀
I have only knocked back after first proving when I am not making a sourdough bread.
If I was doing normal "yeasted" bread I would knock it back after the first hour of proving and then prove for another hour before baking.
Sadexpunk's bread looks like a sourdough to me a much slower and longer process.
think you need to look at your structure building and get more tension in the outside of your dough Sadex.... but I may be wrong.
even the Beeb are getting in on the sourdough craze 🙂 ..... http://e.bbcgoodfood.com/q/1fv2Qx28M78ghPIaAOIl6F1/wv
Sadexpunk’s bread looks like a sourdough to me a much slower and longer process.
think you need to look at your structure building and get more tension in the outside of your dough Sadex…. but I may be wrong.
yes its sourdough. how would you work on the 'structure'? i follow the recipe pretty much to the letter and have the video playing too, so i can check i stretch, fold and shape the same way.....
thanks