I'm once more drawn to a van, a leap I've never taken yet.
What mid-size (Traffic/Vito/etc) come with 5 seats?
What of the above can be car registered (for faster speeds)?
How expensive to make the front two rotate and install some kind of table?
What power output/engine do I *need*, bearing in mind I plan on putting two 17' open canoes on the roof and they are a lot of windage....?
Trafics & Vivaros come as 6 seat crew vans with a plastic bulkhead behind the rear seats. You don't often see 2 seats in the front - you could get it as an option but it wasn't popular.
Merc Duoliner's probably what you're after.
You cannot change it to a car class, it stays as originally registered so you would need to get a vehicle sold as a car in the correct class from factory. I cannot remember the classes as it's not affected me.
You can register a campervan that supposedly increases the speed limit (grey area) but the DVLA have really clamped down recently so it would not qualify unless you did a full conversion (not possible with 5 seats in that size vehicle)
The speed thing makes less difference than you think. I only really notice on national speed limit dual carriageways where it's 60 rather 70. On single carriageway A roads I'm usually not the one holding up the traffic
How expensive to make the front two rotate and install some kind of table?
We got quoted £270 per seat for swivels supplied, fitted and handbrake relocated. Single passenger seat from eBay. Table was £70.
If you can find one then VW Caravelle, 7 seats, all the rear ones can come out and move around on rails. We ran ours as a 5 seater and swapped last year to a Kombi - purely as we never used the two middle seats. It's an MPV on the V5 so no issues re restricted speeds and indeed MOT class should it come to it.
I was corrected that the speed things a huge issue in the other thread.....despite having driven vans for over 10 years as my.primary vehicle.
Be very careful - often what you want if you want car speeds mean your paying emissions rated tax - often around 400 quid per year ...
You have to ce carefull when fitting rear seats as they should be crash tested, with VW T5's rear seat belt mountings to the body are often required. Normal vans dont have this and aftermarket brackes are welded in.
Better to have factory fitted seats as it's less hassle to insure and ultimatley safer.
I have a swivel base on my vivaro double passenger seat. It cost £250 and took about an hour to fit.
I'd agree the speed limit thing is not very, ahem, limiting in reality.
And I'd suggest starting out with a standard crew cab and seeing if you really think you need rotating chairs.
I have a swivel base on my vivaro double passenger seat. It cost £250 and took about an hour to fit.
I'm not about to fit one to mine, but it'd be interesting to see it swivelled.
VW Caravelle
I'm reluctant for the VW as I've heard too many horror stories (and experienced myself) VW's build quality and lack of reliability. That's balanced against they do hold thier residuals.
Does anyone do equivalent of Caravelle?
swivel base ... double passenger seat.
Old van had one of these. Easy to fit but required carpet trimming. Slight faff to swivel; push, turn, pull, turn, push maneuver and then hand bolts to lock in place. Took it out when we sold the van so if anyone wants one for a Mk6/7 Transit...
I have a swivel in our Trafic, for the passenger bench. Works really well. Gives lots of extra space in the "camper" part. Only downside is the pre-tensioners are disabled.
Registered as a camper is handy, living on the A9 with its ASCs. Vehicle tax is £260 ps.
I extended the cables on my pretensioners after forgetting to unplug them one day and snapping the cable. Now the cable is long enough to allow the seats to be in the swivel position. No carpet trimming was required on my particular van and it does make a huge difference.
This video on kiravans applies to the T5 but gives you an idea.
Does anyone do equivalent of Caravelle?
Renault/Vivaro are both available as a "minibus" version. You could start with one of them, remove the rear seats and panel up the rear windows. It is classified as a car/MPV.
Ford do the Grand Tourneo for a similar approach.
Vito tourer (post 2015) or Vito Traveliner / Viano pre 2015
VW all the way for me. Just sold our T4 and got T6. Ours will be full camper conversion but capable of carrying a canoe or 2.
I will would happily have a kombi and a bed platform but wife wants the full camper luxury.
T6 is 140hp and more than powerful enough.
Ford Tourneo (Transit) Custom here, brain dump for you. It's an MPV on V5 so normal speed limits. We leave the back 3 seats out most of the time and just use it is a 5 seater (2+3) with space for bikes/diy etc. 2015 2.2 here, post 2016 are 2.0 with adblue etc and a bit less reliable by all accounts. Not particularly cheap to run at 40mpg at very best but we're happy with it as we don't do much mileage. Remapped 125>180bhp for towing a caravan. £240 tax and it is expensive and complicated to insure (even before remap) as there is a 9 seat version (full minibus) wihich means most insurers automatically won't quote. It's our main family car having come from large estates previously. You can also get a factory fit fold up roof rack for your canoes.
Other Tourneo observations - being a MPV, the suspension errs on the "comfortable" side rather than the firm "industrial" side of a Trafic/Vivaro. That makes it a nice cruiser but gets a bit wallowy on corners, especially if well loaded.
Fuel consumption on one of ours was chronically bad. We'd often joke about looking under it to see the leak. The other one (higher bhp - can't remember which) was better but still not as good as my Trafic.
Check the front door hinges have been replaced. The doors easily catch the wind and will bend the hinge, potentially damaging the front wing.
It's a very pleasant place to sit on long journeys. Comfy, relaxing. The rear seats can be folded up and hooked into a more forward fitting to increase load space if you've no passengers. Taking the seats out is really a 2-man job as it's a single and a pair.
VW. Caravelles are expensive - its what Alan Sugar drives his zombies around in on the Apprentice. Look for a Shuttle - more minibus-like and as a result loads cheaper usually and you can still remove rows of seats etc.
We've owned our T5 for nearly 6 years now and apart from routine maintenance and servicing its needed a driveshaft. Thats it. Don't be tricked into thinking VWs are expensive and unreliable, they're not.
I carry 2 canoes on the roof of my Doblo, with 150cm wide bars. I can't get them both flat, side by side, so one is on it's side against the upright. It can be a hassle to load/unload. 2 Canoes is really a 2 person job and requires a wee folding 3 step. One canoe is no bother as I have a roller and this make loading a cinch.
Look for something that will take w i d e bars. You will want at least 180cm. Get a roller too.
You could look a bit smaller at something like a LWB Caddy/Doblo/Kangoo. If you have back seats in a van you'll still need quite a long wheelbase to get 4/5 people AND bikes in. The smaller vans are lower which make roof loads easier, but still not as easy as a car. I know someone who got a Transporter, but wanted to sell their canoe as it was too difficult to load onto the roof.
So does that mean that minibus’s or crew vans with a M1 classification are car speed limits or does it have to be classified as an MPV?
Has anyone got a Proace/Dispatch/Expert, in XL/LWB?
@Troutwrestler - hola, good to meet you the other day.
I can hoick canoes onto the roof, I'll buy a rack with a roller on 🙂 I've lobbed them on transits regularly, mid roof plus roof rack 🙂
I'm on my second T5 with 5/6 seats. Insurance hasn't been the slightest bit of faff with Aviva. Reeled off a long list of mods and no batting of eyelids on either occasion and no more expensive to insure than my old Saab 93 estate.
As mentioned above, haven't had a "speed issue" since first getting a van in 2013.
Apparently wiring a microwave in to a van is enough to have it recategorised as a camper...so get that added under the swivel seat and you are sorted (don't attach seat to the rotating plate of the microwave!).
If I wasn’t a vw fanboy proace or dispatch is what I would have. I saw a nice camper conversion by Wellhouse with a sliding rock and roll bed.
Never driven one but the van seemed comfortable to sit in and well screwed together.
Dickbarton - no idea where you got that from, the list of requirements is large and includes fixed high top, graphics, washing, cooking, storage etc.
VWs are expensive and unreliable, they’re not.
Ill let my mate who's on his third engine know they ain't unreliable or expensive.
Infact i Aso have another mate locally who's is on his second engine.
But they keep throwing engines at them because they are so expensive.
You'll get a much newer van in almost any other brand for similar money.
Someone's been spinning you a yarn Dick.
(not possible with 5 seats in that size vehicle)
Not true, 3 in front and 2 on rock n roll bed is a standard config.
Transporters are the reverbs of vans, everyone has a bad story due to the sheer volume of them.
Dick, if you listen to some tales, you ain't getting it reclassified until you've cut a caravan door in the side, multiple windows and Bessacar written down the side. They don't care about no microwave anymore!
My van is fully converted, and re-registered, but from what I've read, would no longer qualify to be changed as to the average person watching me doing a hit-and-run, its a silver van when they call the police. Although the DVLA will concede its a 'van with (double glazed campervan) windows'.
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[i](not possible with 5 seats in that size vehicle)
Not true, 3 in front and 2 on rock n roll bed is a standard config.[/i]
True, I was imagining the OP was looking for a doublecab-in-van, i.e a day van. To go for a camper conversion you'd not want to buy a 5 seater only to rip out the rear seats/bulkhead etc, and remove the practicalities of a van you can throw junk (or bikes) in the back.
Yeah, I know there is more to it, but only the microwave would fit my attempt at a joke with the swivel seats...sorry, I figured it was such an obvious false piece of info without flagging there is more to it than that.
It's transport / day van only we're looking at.
Trying to get 3-5 bikes and canoes on holidays, bikes regularly through the week, plus somewhere for a dry cuppa and cake.
A friend has LWB Custom which they get family of 5 and 5 bikes in (front wheel off) on fore/aft racks in the boot which is ideal.
I'm looking at the new Proace/expert/dispatch in LWB and bigger engine They seem to do a lot more mpg, good low loading area, reaching the roof for canoes is easier etc.
Fall back is that Trafic/Vivaro/Primastar/Talento would also work.
I've even been trying to price up a local conversion - seems panel vans are so much cheaper, but then a good conversion is £3k+...
I've got a 20 year old T4 and absolutely love it. Bought it as a panel Van and converted it slowly as I could afford various bits. Used it for MTB adventures, racing, trips away. Now have 2 kids and we use it loads (apart from covid). Been to France 3 times all over the UK.
It's been very cheap to maintain. Guessing this is due to being a simple petrol engine.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pZ6UPrja88BHCy8k7
Next plans are solar panel and raising the suspension and chunkier tyres
And yes they recently changed the requirements for reclassifying as a motorhome. I was all set to do mine but now you have to have a high top rather than a pop top. There is a campaign to get the DVLA to recognise 'campervan' as a category
Former T5 owner here too.
I think the reverb anology above is about spot-on.
I had mine for 4 years and the only issue I had was a dpf fail. Common and known issue. Got a deal from VW on a replacement even though it was out of warranty.
Anyway on to the layout...
I wanted something to camp with (so we bought the awning and all the other bits) and something to transport bikes, get changed in, and be a good daily driver.
I bought a used 60 plate 140 6 speed manual panel Van that already had a set of window fitted.
I then got a set of caravelle seats front and back along with the proper floor with sliding rails fitted.
Also did the standard soundproofing and panelling.
It was fantastic and a big part of me wishes I hadn't sold it!
If you dm me I can send you pics of the interior. It was fantastically versatile.
And the rear seats converted into a bed.
Not cheap admittedly but with some DIY and some shopping around not silly money either.
Didn't feel like I lost much when I sold it 4 years on either.
I have a T6 and put in a swivel for the front bench seat. Easy to fit although the bolts needed a little persuasion. Went for the Rusty Lee one as it is a smoother action than the Kiravans one, a bit more expensive.
Bear in mind they add about 48mm to the height.
Transporters are the reverbs of vans, everyone has a bad story due to the sheer volume of them.
Nowhere near the number of vivaro/trafics out there, surely?
All vans are unreliable if you ask people on the internet. Maybe apart from older Toyotas.
I wouldn't buy Citroen after seeing my friend's experience. But I know some people have had less luck than me with vivaros.
It's all a bit of a gamble I suppose.
Maybe apart from older Toyotas.
I wouldn’t buy Citroen after seeing my friend’s experience.
Which for the past decade have been made on the same production line in France...
We can't all drive vans newer than 10 years old pal.
Just bookmarking for reference.
We can’t all drive vans newer than 10 years old pal.
You probably could if you weren't blinkered to vans that have perceived quality above actual.
Nowhere near the number of vivaro/trafics out there, surely?
My experience of folks with vans is in terms of day vans, family haulers, campers and bike vans, and pretty much all of them have transporters.
I can only think if one mate who had a vivaro, the amount of injectors and gearbox issues he had were stomach churning. I wouldn't base any future choice on that though, that'd be silly.
The hard bit with getting proper info on transporter reliability is trying to filter out the noise of the haters and the evangelists, both as bullshitty as the other IME.
You probably could if you weren’t blinkered to vans that have perceived quality above actual.
I was LITERALLY pointing out that you hear bad stuff about all vans. Do you have a selective reading disorder?
My experience of folks with vans is in terms of day vans, family haulers, campers and bike vans, and pretty much all of them have transporters.
Fair enough, Vivaro / Trafics are easily the most popular van among riders I know IRL - but more importantly they were ubiquitous among tradesmen and fleet operators over the past 20 years.
Transit making inroads now though, and that's what I'd buy if I was a bit more flush.
