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They do not serve us.
Even as late as the 80s i might have believed the chance of this happening. Now I think it is highly unlikely. Police culture as I have seen it in Oxford, Bristol and London doesn’t bear that out in my view.
I’d hate to live in a world where your statement is true.
In my run ins with the law in this country the police have behaved reasonably, especially over the last two decades as the older members of the force move on.
I do accept that others have a different experience. I’m middle class and white.
I am also middle class and white, and law abiding. But I have seen some awful behavior from cops on power trips and cops who are just plain violent bullies.
In my run ins with the law in this country the police have behaved reasonably
In my first run-in with the law I was left feeling disillusioned. I was told to pick up the litter (chip wrapper) that I had thrown on the floor. Despite my arguing it with him that I hadn't done it (and indeed, as I was still eating my chips and therefore was still holding the wrapper) he insisted I picked it up or he'd arrest me.
(Me, aged 14)
In my second, I was climbing scaffolding surrounding a Post Office at 2am on a Saturday night. I was shouted down, I climbed down, they asked me what I was doing so I explained I was drunk and thought it would be a laugh. They radiod in a name-check then let me go on my way. I thought they behaved quite reasonably given the circumstances.
(Me, aged 30)
If the lady in question is claiming to have spoken to the Greater Manchester Met about it then I think we ought to let her sober up and get her story straight. See if she can remember if she was in Manchester or London for a start.
they’ve never suddenly turned violet for no reason
crims-on the street do get treated roughly
they’ve never suddenly turned violet for no reason
#fakehues
Vaguely knowing a (now ex) copper who spent a few years at her majesty's pleasure after assaulting a homeless man I don't find it as difficult as I'd like to imagine a scenario in which asking for directions led to a bit of "over exuberant restraint" or an outright kicking. But, and it's a big but, even the downright nasty piece of work he is, it never went from one immediately to the other. He'd go to lengths to orchestrate a situation in which he'd get away with getting physical because he knew, the instant he could incite someone to provoke him, he'd get (or quite literally give) his kicks. On the one occasion he didn't force a provocation he ended up suspended within a week and in prison a while later.
So no I don't think the op's friend is necessarily lying but I'm pretty sure there's something missing from the story and that needs to be laid out in detail in the complaint (not here or FB) because, when it's dragged out at a later date the decision to omitt it now looks guilty enough to risk the complaint being dropped.
See if she can remember if she was in Manchester or London for a start.
I did wonder about that but assumed Manchester MET might be something new
Maybe she's a POC, that could explain the police's heavy handed response
Dickyboy - not something I’ve ever heard of but if so, I’ll retract my sarcasm 😀
If only a dslr had some way to record moving images, that could be stored with a date and time stamp. It would be a most useful feature if repeatedly getting stopped and searched.
If camera crews can follow the police and film arrests then it follows that you should be entitled to film your own body cavity search..
Although having a 6ft copper who is 18stone offer to insert your 300mm apo tele up your arris might persuade you not to
Have you never watched those late night “Police Action” type fly-on-the-wall documentaries? You’d have to pretty much commit ABH to get chucked in the van, their MO is to stop things escalating and convince drunken quarter-wits to bugger off home. If they charged everyone who had “done something” the courts would grind to a half.
No I have never bothered watching any of it. Do you think they behave the same on camera and off?
If 3 officers wrestled to the ground then she must of been violent towards them, which would constitute Assaulting a Police Officer. What other behaviour would justify physically restraining her? Definitely worth arresting and charging that offense. Really good for them.
Just because they charge someone doesn't mean the CPS will take it to court, however you know but can't help contradicting what I post.
Quite sad. As others have said, you really shouldn't be a mod.
you really shouldn’t be a mod.
I agree, you should become a rocker. Motorbikes so much cooler than mopeds.
Have you never watched those late night “Police Action” type fly-on-the-wall documentaries? You’d have to pretty much commit ABH to get chucked in the van, their MO is to stop things escalating and convince drunken quarter-wits to bugger off home. If they charged everyone who had “done something” the courts would grind to a half.
Someone needs to read up on embedded journalism, it isn't done to inform the public, it is nothing short of propaganda.
Do you think they behave the same on camera and off?
I've no idea, I meant to say as much in my post but forgot.
Just because they charge someone doesn’t mean the CPS will take it to court,
Fair enough. Point stands though, they'd still have far too many people to cope with to charge regardless of who's doing the charging.
however you know but can’t help contradicting what I post.
Don't flatter yourself, I couldn't care less who's doing the posting. Half the time I don't even look at usernames, if you'd asked me who I'd replied to there I wouldn't have been able to tell you without going back and checking.
Quite sad. As others have said, you really shouldn’t be a mod.
I'm posting here as a regular user just like you. Thanks for that though, really makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Can someone please message the OP we need answers or at least an update!
Point stands though, they’d still have far too many people to cope with to charge regardless of who’s doing the charging.
You really think they wouldn't arrest for assaulting a police officer? Which could be the only possible reason for their actions and using such strong physical force.
I’m posting here as a regular user just like you. Thanks for that though, really makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
It's a bit like the police we are discussing here, the fact you want to be a police officer should automatically stop you from being one.
You really think they wouldn’t arrest for assaulting a police officer?
Of course I don't. My point was the opposite, they won't arrest you unless you really warrant it.
It’s a bit like the police we are discussing here, the fact you want to be a police officer should automatically stop you from being one.
I didn't ask to be a moderator, I was approached by Mark.
Crack on with the ad hom digs though, if you feel it strengthens your argument.
I didn’t ask to be a moderator, I was approached by Mark.
Being a Marked man isn’t an easy thing to live with.
Of course I don’t. My point was the opposite, they won’t arrest you unless you really warrant it.
So they used enough physical force to restrain someone that caused bruising.
However her actions didn't warrant an arrest? WTAF?
Bloody hell! STW at its best/worst! I only wanted a bit of advice for an old friend who seemed to be getting nowhere with the police channels and she gets character assassinated. All I can say is she is lovely person and I have never seen her acting aggressively.
I’m afraid I can’t offer any more information on the events as she has deleted the post on FB ( probably been advised to). I can remember she had managed to get some kind of response from the GM police and they were going to look into it and contact her on Monday. Presumably they have and she is satisfied something is going to happen.
The only thing i can take away from this thread , judging by some of the naive & trusting attitudes of some commentators towards the conduct of todays plod , is that the British public are sleepwalking into an unchallenged police state.
All the other tittle tattle being posted just looks petty and childish to the casual observer.
Deleted as cross posted with an update.
When I was 12 I got stopped riding my new racer down the street in my new ski jacket. A copper stopped me by pushing me in the chest and and shouting stop loudly, nearly fell off the bike. He asked me where i had got the bike (i had saved up all year and my dad paid the rest for christmas) i told him so. He then proceeded to pull my ski jacket and asked if it was nicked at which point i told him to leave me alone as my mum had bought it for me. He called me a little shit and punched me in the face and off my bike. No, the police never assault anyone unprovoked...
gobuchal thats really quite common to be restrained until the person calms down and then is sent on their way. The cops want to remain on the street not get tied up in charging someone.
If the cops really had beaten her up then the injuries would be much worse
IMO the injuries are consistent with being restrained not with being beaten up.
( I have worked alongside the police treating detainees that have been arrested)
gobuchal thats really quite common to be restrained until the person calms down
Why would you restrain someone, on a public street, who wasn't physically aggressive?
( I have worked alongside the police treating detainees that have been arrested)
But this person wasn't arrested. As she hadn't done anything to justify it.
Gopbuchal - we do not know what happened in this case. The cops would not restrain someone who was not aggressive. It really is astonishing how some folk behave towards cops. They seem to think a cop cannot lay hands on or give instructions to leave an area
But something like I outline below happens a dozen times a night in every city in the UK
People are often restrained until they calm down. Yes they could be arrested but given the shortfall in cops on the street and that arresting someone is going to take two of them off the street for 2 hours they prefer to not arrest if they can
Police " go away, you are drunk and being a pain"
Drunk " you cannot tell me what to do"
Cop " yes I can - go away" pushes / guides drunk in direction of away
Drunk shouting " get your hands off me, you cannot touch me" pushes cop
Cops then grab them and restrain them standing. Person either calms down and apologies or kicks off if they kick off they will be taken to the ground and restrained on the ground.
Drunk then calms down and is released or continues to kick off and is arrested
the injuries this woman sustained are IMO and from the very limited info we have entirely consistent with being restrained and completely inconsistent to being beaten up
I have seen entirely respectable professional people behave like this and they are mortified when they wake up sober in a police cell. For every one that ends up in a cell several more will be sent on their way with a warning
As I said in the first place, what TJ is describing is exactly what happens if the handy-cam police TV shows are to be believed as representative. (Whether they actually are or not is another matter.)
I heavily doubt that in today's World of targets and KPI's for the Police, they would turn down an opportunity to arrest for Assaulting a Police Officer. Where they have overwhelming evidence and it would make an easy conviction.
As I said in the first place, what TJ is describing is exactly what happens if the handy-cam police TV shows are to be believed as representative. (Whether they actually are or not is another matter.)
I doubt they will be, however, I might just be being cynical.
As I said in the first place, what TJ is describing is exactly what happens if the handy-cam police TV shows are to be believed as representative. (Whether they actually are or not is another matter.)
I quite honestly can't see why ANYONE would think handy-cam police TV shows MIGHT be believed as representative...
The IPCC sought court injunctions to prevent video footage being published .
No officers came forwards until AFTER the guardian released footage and all the helmet cams and CCTV was mysteriously lost..
(read the whole article)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson
The cops would not restrain someone who was not aggressive.
They just attack them from behind with a baton?
I heavily doubt that in today’s World of targets and KPI’s for the Police, they would turn down an opportunity to arrest for Assaulting a Police Officer. Where they have overwhelming evidence and it would make an easy conviction.
Well you would be wrong on that. Take Edinburgh where I worked as an example. There will only be around 6 officers on duty for the city. Arresting someone takes two of them out of circulation for at least 2 hours. If they can get an agressive drunk out of the way tor to go home rather than arrest them they do so. There is only a limited number of cells available in the city. Arrest more than that they they have to take them to cells n other areas - taking officers off the street for even longer.
the restrain is often used to prevent the assault on a police officer
Edit - so if they arrest the first 3 drunk and disorderly they can find by midnight there is not a single cop left in the city to deal with anything else
On the police camera action shows - The edinburgh cops where I worked were shown on one of them I watched -= they behaved exactly the same on the show as they did when I saw them. For sure I never saw everything but in the time I worked with them I never once saw any evidence of police being over the top. Even the middleaged woman whos arm got broken as the police restrained her was understandable given how she behaved when I saw her 3 hours later. I couldn't examine her because she kept trying to attack me despite what was a broken arm
Having said that I know the Edinburgh cops have a very different reputation to the Met
Okay. I send a FB message to a retired PC I know very well.
His answers was that in domestics its usually calm the situation down. On the street where someone is getting aggressive towards a Police Officer, "they will probably get lifted."
So if she had been aggressive, in his experience, she would probably of been arrested.
TJ - you are looking at quite different scenarios from what the OP posted. Nobody is suggesting that they would get arrested for D&D.
No I am not gobuchal and IME leary drunks are not always arrested =even if they have been restrained at some point simply because of the removal of cops from the street that ensues
YOu get restrained if you are drunk and disorderly to prevent an assault on a police officer. If you then calm down you get sent on your way. If you don't yo get arrested.
Just to emphasise again we do not know what happened here. YOu cannot know if she was restrained because she assaulted an officer or to prevent an assault on an officer or indeed if the cops for some reason assaulted an innocent woman
From what I have seen and know on the balance of probabilities my guess would be she interrupted something they were doing like surveillance, got angry when told to go away, was restrained, calmed down and was sent on her way.
BUT WE DO NOT KNOW - ITS ALL IDLE SPECULATION
Err - only six officers on duty for all of Edinburgh ??
I have seen more than that breaking up a pub fight in Victoria st.
Err – only six officers on duty for all of Edinburgh ??
All those other coppers you see going about are actually Fringe street performances.
hels
Member
Err – only six officers on duty for all of Edinburgh ??
In the absence of #jambafacts, I think this might be #tjfacts
Nobody is suggesting that they would get arrested for D&D.
... which is exactly what I've been trying to say all along.
Thats what they told me when I worked there - thats the number actually out on the street. I never counted them and it seems unlikely but thats what they told me, city centre
@ Roter Stern
...so has it been logged yet? This case needs full disclosure
5 pages of hypothetical weeing on police shoes, it needs to move on!
Maybe they meant from their shift rota TJ. I think to say that only six are on duty across Edinburgh has a be a non-fact.
BUT WE DO NOT KNOW – ITS ALL IDLE SPECULATION
Bore off with the shouting.