[Closed] Solar panels

Funny you should mention it, there are loads by me too. Never heard of anyone i know having them so i can't comment on costs.

Are they basing that on maximum panel capacity or actual data from your site and proposed panel orientation? Some recent tests on a set of panels on my work roof revealed 3 (IIRC) fully functional 80W panels averaged at 4W over a day, even on sunny days.

Yep. We've got solar hot water, with an oil backup system.

Dont know about all the stats but I think its great because the oil reserve now lasts for ages!!

Prior to installation 1,000L of oil could go in as little as 2 - 3 months.

The panels are guaranteed for 25 years and must be 80% efficent or they are replaced. I have a south west facing roof with no shadows from buildings or trees.

Here is the quote details:
Thank you for taking the time to allow me to explain the benefits of installing Solar P.V at your
home in Dumfries. I have calculated your financial return based on installing a 3.43kWp System
(14 X 245w panels).
As previously explained, by installing the system you will benefit in 3 ways:(all income is TAX-FREE)
1. Feed-In-Tariff: You will be paid a rate of 43.3p for every unit that the system produces.
2. Export Income: You will be paid a further 3.1p for every unit that you don?t use and export to the national
grid. (This is on top of your feed-in-tariff).
3. Energy Savings: You will save 14p for every unit that you use from the system instead of buying it from
your current energy supplier.
In order to qualify for the Feed-In-Tariff both the installer and the system must be MCS approved which your
system will be and you will receive your certification once your system is installed.
Upon visiting your home I established that your annual consumption of electricity was around 6,571 kWh at
an average unit price of 14p giving you an annual bill of approximately £920. The energy savings trust
estimates that a system can produce approximately 40% of the electricity a household uses in a year, I have
calculated my assumptions based on 37% of your current consumption.
Based on your post code and having 14 panels on your south west facing roof, I have calculated that the
system should generate approximately 3,033kWh per annum and have constructed a summary of your
financial return in year one:
Investment in 3.43kWp System: £11,620.00
First Year: Income from Feed-In Generation Tariff @ 43.30p/kWh: £1,313.49
Income from exporting energy @ 3.10p/kWh: £16.93
Electricity Saving: £348.24
Total Benefit: £1,678.66
Return per annum (Year One) 14.45%
I have included a more
detailed breakdown of your investment below.

Calculations include system losses in a central UK location due to Temperature 6.8% and Angular
Reflectance 3.2%, as well as other losses (e.g. Cables, Inverter) of 5%.
System Investment Feed-In & Savings Pay back time Profit over 25yrs
3.43kWp £11,620.00 £ 1,678.66pa 6y 2m £73,500.85
Year FiT Generation Export Income In-house savings Balance
1 3,033kWh x 43.30p =
£ 1,313.49
546kWh x 3.10p =
£ 16.93
2,487kWh x 14.00p =
£ 348.24
-£9,941.34
2 3,033kWh x 45.03p =
£ 1,365.95
546kWh x 3.22p =
£ 17.60
2,487kWh x 15.40p =
£ 383.04
-£8,174.74
3 3,033kWh x 46.83p =
£ 1,420.25
546kWh x 3.35p =
£ 18.30
2,487kWh x 16.94p =
£ 421.25
-£6,314.94
4 3,031kWh x 48.71p =
£ 1,476.32
546kWh x 3.49p =
£ 19.03
2,485kWh x 18.63p =
£ 463.14
-£4,356.46
5 3,029kWh x 50.65p =
£ 1,534.16
545kWh x 3.63p =
£ 19.77
2,483kWh x 20.50p =
£ 509.05
-£2,293.47
6 3,025kWh x 52.68p =
£ 1,593.73
545kWh x 3.77p =
£ 20.54
2,481kWh x 22.55p =
£ 559.33
-£119.88
7 3,021kWh x 54.79p =
£ 1,655.00
544kWh x 3.92p =
£ 21.33
2,477kWh x 24.80p =
£ 614.34
£2,170.79
8 3,015kWh x 56.98p =
£ 1,717.95
543kWh x 4.08p =
£ 22.14
2,472kWh x 27.28p =
£ 674.50
£4,585.37
9 3,008kWh x 59.26p =
£ 1,782.54
541kWh x 4.24p =
£ 22.97
2,467kWh x 30.01p =
£ 740.23
£7,131.11
10 3,000kWh x 61.63p =
£ 1,848.72
540kWh x 4.41p =
£ 23.82
2,460kWh x 33.01p =
£ 812.01
£9,815.66
11 2,990kWh x 64.09p =
£ 1,916.45
538kWh x 4.59p =
£ 24.70
2,452kWh x 36.31p =
£ 890.32
£12,647.12
12 2,979kWh x 66.66p =
£ 1,985.66
536kWh x 4.77p =
£ 25.59
2,443kWh x 39.94p =
£ 975.69
£15,634.06
13 2,966kWh x 69.32p =
£ 2,056.30
534kWh x 4.96p =
£ 26.50
2,432kWh x 43.94p =
£ 1,068.69
£18,785.55
14 2,952kWh x 72.10p =
£ 2,128.28
531kWh x 5.16p =
£ 27.43
2,421kWh x 48.33p =
£ 1,169.91
£22,111.16
15 2,936kWh x 74.98p =
£ 2,201.51
528kWh x 5.37p =
£ 28.37
2,408kWh x 53.16p =
£ 1,279.98
£25,621.02
16 2,919kWh x 77.98p =
£ 2,275.89
525kWh x 5.58p =
£ 29.33
2,393kWh x 58.48p =
£ 1,399.57
£29,325.81
17 2,899kWh x 81.10p =
£ 2,351.31
522kWh x 5.81p =
£ 30.30
2,377kWh x 64.33p =
£ 1,529.37
£33,236.79
18 2,878kWh x 84.34p =
£ 2,427.63
518kWh x 6.04p =
£ 31.28
2,360kWh x 70.76p =
£ 1,670.11
£37,365.81
19 2,855kWh x 87.72p =
£ 2,504.71
514kWh x 6.28p =
£ 32.28
2,341kWh x 77.84p =
£ 1,822.55
£41,725.36
20 2,831kWh x 91.23p =
£ 2,582.40
510kWh x 6.53p =
£ 33.28
2,321kWh x 85.62p =
£ 1,987.49
£46,328.53
21 2,804kWh x 94.88p =
£ 2,660.50
505kWh x 6.79p =
£ 34.29
2,299kWh x 94.18p =
£ 2,165.73
£51,189.04
22 2,776kWh x 98.67p =
£ 2,738.82
500kWh x 7.06p =
£ 35.29
2,276kWh x 103.60p =
£ 2,358.10
£56,321.25
23 2,745kWh x 102.62p =
£ 2,817.13
494kWh x 7.35p =
£ 36.30
2,251kWh x 113.96p =
£ 2,565.46
£61,740.15
24 2,713kWh x 106.72p =
£ 2,895.18
488kWh x 7.64p =
£ 37.31
2,225kWh x 125.36p =
£ 2,788.66
£67,461.30
25 2,678kWh x 110.99p =
£ 2,972.72
482kWh x 7.95p =
£ 38.31
2,196kWh x 137.90p =
£ 3,028.53
£73,500.85
These estimates are calculated assuming tax inclusive pricing including fitting of MCS certified panels to
determine the best possible payback. Assuming that you pay 14p per unit and that around 82% of the
solar electricity that you generate will be used in your home.
Assumptions:
1 Illustrative solar PV performance figures only. Figures are given in good faith but do not constitute "Financial Advice".
2 Yearly PV output uses a factored degradation over time based on industry estimates.
3 VAT is included (at 5% where appropriate) unless a new build is specified.
4 Photovoltaic Panels will not be shaded (e.g. by Trees or Buildings) as shading affects PV output.
5 Assuming that you pay 14p per unit and that around 82% of the solar electricity that you generate will be used in your home.
6 Assuming RPI of 4% and increase of 10% per annum on electricity bills.

I've got solar water tubes and 2.2KWP of PV.

I switched off all hot water heating on about 10th March and don't expect to need it again till the last week in October. - You need to be a little flexible with hot water, a run of cool grey days leads to a slight shortage but it depends how you live. I also modified my shower feed so we can still have a hot shower with the tank down to 40C.
The high pressure sunny days, and 220 litres is at 70C top to bottom before 2PM.

The PV happily generates 2 KW. Not quite it's rated output but our roof is only 30 degrees slope which is the reason. I've seen 1.95KW several days already this year and have generated about 1500 KWH since late June last year, the majority of that was last year before November. Not much Nov..March.
It really ramped up since beginning of April. A good summer day is 12..14 KWH.

[url= http://info.cat.org.uk/fits ]http://info.cat.org.uk/fits[/url]

Some good info and links there.

[url= http://www.thesolarcentre.co.uk/pages/solar_panel_calculator.html ]http://www.thesolarcentre.co.uk/pages/solar_panel_calculator.html[/url]

A quick calculator there

[url= http://www.navitron.org.uk/page.php?id=139&catId=65 ]http://www.navitron.org.uk/page.php?id=139&catId=65[/url]

Another good one there. Try your figures through them to see what answers you get.

the reason why they assume electricity is going up by 10% a year is so the rest of us can pay the "early" adoptors tariff.

There are other issues about maintenance when the guarantees run out (usually before 25 years)

also selling the house if you don't transfer the agreement

the government may also decide not to honour the contracts in the future (see Spain)

however if you have the cash it's potentially a good investment. I would get some comparison quotes for the installation, the tariff is standard so you should be able to tarde off the suppliers against each other

Unsurprisingly i dont have the cash, i would have to loan it but i can accept that as long as my return covers it. I have completely renovated my house and i have no plans to move or sell (that shiny faced **** at number 10 may change that). With regard to maintenance the inverter is only guaranteed for 10 years unlike the panels which are 25.

I would also [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgeneration_Certification_Scheme ]look at this[/url] as well, it's about the MCS

How often do you need to clean the panels as well? I remember from looking at it a while back that light dust might be ok but something like bird poo can really reduce the output as the panels are a long string of generating elements in series so blocking just one of the effectively blocked the whole thing. It was going to be too much hassle at the time as I don't like big ladders but maybeq it's better now

The way these are taking off in little areas is facinating.

Its excactly like loft conversions and conservatorys do and Priuses tend to in California.

Proper keeping up with the Jones' in a green way

@dj I don't mind.. keeps me working 😀

The feed in tariff is 41.3p not 43.3.

It's only a small point, but if they can't get that right in an official quote, I'd be sceptical about any of their numbers.

£11,500 Inc VAT. With a 10 year warranty on the inverter is a pretty good price though.

Feed in tariff went up to 43.3p at the beginning of April. They are therefore quite correct.

£11,500 is a very good price for 3.43kW. Even so, get some alternative quotes. Cheapest isn't always best. Compare predicted yields from other suppliers and if they predict more or less, ask why.

You would normally expect a payback of 8-12 years depending on system size/cost.

"6 Assuming RPI of 4% and increase of 10% per annum on electricity bills." will of course make returns look good, as will predicted savings to your household bill. Ask for figures with a lower RPI and cost increase to see how this affects returns.

However, in general, solar PV is a bit of a good investment* and if you can afford it or are prepared to borrow the money, go for it. (*Assuming our dear old government leave the FIT scheme alone).

I've been designing and installing these things for the last 9 months and, if my roof wasn't so poxy I'd have my own system in a shot.

my mate has just started fitting them, and is approved. If you want a second opinion then I can put you through to him. He is pretty sure the deal is a good one, and he's usually pretty tight with his money.... 😉

Feed in tariff went up to 43.3p at the beginning of April. They are therefore quite correct.

Oops 😳

My brother is also a salesman for Solar panels see below info,he is in your area, if you need his number email me....

The price for the system is good but....
The figures are too high for the returns. The company should use the government SAP 2009 calculation to work out the kilowatt hours produced the size of system. A 3.48kW system produces 2992 kWh/year. This also assumes a 30 degree slope of roof and a perfect south facing roof.

The government guidelines also suggest that you should assume that you use 50% and export 50%.

As this mans roof faces South West the returns would be reduces by 10%.

They also seem to be using RPI at 4.0% when the long term average for RPI is around 3.0%

The panels will have a 25 year performance guarantee (probably 80% at 25 years), but they do NOT have a 25 year manufacturers guarantee, it is far more likely to be 5 years and the best i can find is 12 years. If you know what make of panels they are proposing you can check the guarantee on the manufacturers website.

hope this helps????

if i had the free cash i think i would do it but i am in the south east, brother SW scotland!

update question from bro!

He should contact the seller and ask the following questions.

How did you calculate the output from the system? He should have used SAP 2009 guidelines, if not ask

Did you not use the Governments SAP 2009 guidelines? If not why not?

What is the Manufactures Guarantee on the Panels? Make sure he does not say performance guarantee as that is different

What deductions did you make off the output for my roof being SW verses south? Around 10%

What is the best roof angle for Panels? The answer is 30%, and did he make a deduction for the angle of your roof?

his company is Solar Power Scotland, http://www.solarpowerscotland.co.uk/ 01505 327666/08002983520 ask for Donald Nicolson (sorry for the plug)

Cove123 (big bro)

bump for those interested?

I installed a system at 43°N 18 months ago. The production has slightly exceeeded the predictions based on average sunshine hours and the orientation/angle of the roof. I also have a solar water heater, when that panel gets dusty the shower goes cold so I go up and clean the lot.

Where is 43° north?

[url= http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Where+is+43%C2%B0+north ]here[/url]
as you are lazy oh well the wiki page has it marked but not the pic odd you will need to use the link
[img] [/img]

I got aggressed by Aracer for claiming I live in southern Europe so now I just say 43°N.

Interesting reading. Just starting to look into this as an investment. From the limited reading I've done, FIT is to be reviewed in 2013, does this mean the government can move the goalposts totally or are there guarantees in place to safeguard the current numbers?

all govts can move the goalposts and it is possibel they are slightly less green /stingy and mor epro nukes. I doubt the libs will let them but principles and spine dont seem to be part of the party anymore so it is a risk for sure

FIT is common in Europe, isn't it? Seems to be a pretty easy win for them in terms of green credentials, so I would imagine it'd stay. There was pressure on both govts for years about this.

my system, which i installed my
self (mcs nic 1737)in november made up off
7 panels x sanyo 235 w hit, totalling 1.68 kw, highest reading was yesterday at 9.9 kwh and ive totalled 336 kwhs since mid november

PV users - how much area do you have?

Seen some pretty big installations here in Germany on houses and barns.