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Cant see it ever happening, but would the outcome be generally positive or negative in the forums opinion?
What about the europeans working here and the brits working abroad too?
Any opinions!?
I help develop European space programmes. I'd lose my living, as would many of the thousands of Brits working in this thriving industry.
I'd move to Germany or Italy.
Not much would change. We might have to spend a few minutes longer at Immigration.
Ten years ago 30% of the UK's exports went to Europe; now that's fallen to 15% or less. We are exporting much more to Russia, the Far East, the Middle East and Africa. The Russians really like us because we aren't corrupt yet we don't ask too many awkward questions.
Germany would, released from trying to stop us tutting loudly, feel no need for further restraint and would immediately invade Spain. Actually they already own it. They would just pack up their X5's and go to their holiday homes en masse
The French wouldn't notice for about a year until they realised that there had been no fish deliveries as the HMS Boris Johnson had sunk the entire French fleet off Dover
The Southern European economy would collapse as deliveries of Donner meat from Turkey are refused permission to be trafficed through Europe.
The British inner cities, deprived of their staple diet, erupts into rioting the like of which the country has never witnessed!
And that just for starters
Oooh I hadn't considered the donner implications!
we could placate with chicken kebabs with chilli sauace though?
Must admit I'm surprised how little we export to the EU, especially now.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/elmr/economic-review/december-2012/sty-exports-overtake.html
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I'd have to use my French passport when travelling to Europe if the UK left 🙂
Don't misread that graph. I think that it is showing the change in trade volumes not the breakdown. Trade with the EU still represents approx 50% of all UK trade. At least that was the case at end 2012 and as bad as Europe is now, it's not that bad!!
I help develop European space programmes. I'd lose my living, as would many of the thousands of Brits working in this thriving industry.
I'm assuming the OP meant the EU, rather than the continent or any other organisations. In which case it might interest you to know that Switzerland and Norway are full members of ESA.
On the whole for average folk, not a lot would be different.
At an individual level, it'll depend.
I'm assuming the OP meant the EU, rather than the continent or any other organisations. In which case it might interest you to know that Switzerland and Norway are full members of ESA.
Yes the EU tis indeed wot i meant
Ta
I'm assuming the OP meant the EU, rather than the continent or any other organisations. In which case it might interest you to know that Switzerland and Norway are full members of ESA.
not sure what you're trying to get at there, but EU and ESA are 2 entirely different organisations, and if UK quit the EU, it'd probably remain an ESA member (be mental to leave imho). Plus much of the space industry is not ESA anyway, but commercial, although several of the missions are increasingly becoming an EU thing rather than ESA, which potentially would impact on the UK part of European aerospace companies winning contracts.
On the whole though... UK would lose vote on EU directives, might be able to be involved in discussions, but would still need to abide by many/most directives (this is the case for Switzerland). UK might be able to undo some legislation, much of which probably won't exactly be of the highest priority (EU working time directive?).
Currency? well UK is out of Euro and EMU, so will gain exactly the same control it already has. Except of course in 10-20 years time, when someone decides it makes sense for the United (Disunited?) Kingdom to re-join EU, when it'd then be compelled to join the Euro (which will still exist) since that's a compulsory part of the treaty 😉
But it'll save a few bob on membership fees, and MEP expenses, in excahnge for no votes on laws it'd have to generally comply with anyway. Money that will then be called upon for bail outs as part of its commitments as member of the IMF 😉
In which case it might interest you to know that Switzerland and Norway are full members of ESA
And Canada is an associate member. But most of my work is for the EU; ESA do have a supervisory role though.
Good plan, so you propose we cut the UK away from it's footings in Europe and float it somewhere else? I can see the benefits in such a plan, the weather for one, distance from the french is another!
Massive VAT savings and we'd no longer be under the illusion we're in a free trade relationship with no barriers.
Maybe we'd even be able to catch some of the fish within our limits.
Farmers might not have to set aside acres doing nothing.
We might not have to have some of the more absurd rulings handed down from Brussels.
In the long run we'd be better off, 11-15 billion for starters..
Companies from outside the EU will stop investing in UK business they currently use as a vehicle to sell goods/services into the EU. This was the veiw as per an "expert" on the money prog on bbc telly this morning with Steff.
Hopefully the status quo will exist for the next 3yrs till I retire. However if wee Eck, Nochola and their cronies do happen to pull the wool over Scottish eyes it may happen whether the UK leaves or not!!
[i]Massive VAT savings and we'd no longer be under the illusion we're in a free trade relationship with no barriers.
Maybe we'd even be able to catch some of the fish within our limits.
Farmers might not have to set aside acres doing nothing.
We might not have to have some of the more absurd rulings handed down from Brussels.
In the long run we'd be better off, 11-15 billion for starters..
[/i]
VAT is set by the member country, so that'll stay the same.
Over-fishing is a global problem, and so are crap controls.
Set-aside isn't a EU policy, but a UK one.
Its the interpretation of the rules that's absurd.
And, 11-15bn - is that a made-up number.
I'm neither pro nor anti Europe - but have spent a lot of time abroad, including living there.
Red tape would go through the roof when it comes to trade and employment
scientific research, one of the few areas where the UK is a genuine world leader has benefited massively from the ease with which researchers can work within different EU countries, it makes it so much easier to attract the best and brightest here, sorting out Visas for non EU students and scientists is a massive PITA
whitegoodman - Member
We might not have to have some of the more absurd rulings handed down from Brussels.
For example?
Nothing much in the short term. Long term might see more trade and migration with brazil, china, india, russia and africa.
We could go back to having really bent bananas, but stripy T-shirts would cost loads more. Garlic would be the same price as gold. Olive oil would cost more than Finish Line Pro. I wouldn't have to eat calamari; I could coat some rubber bands in flour and fish urine instead. Stella Artois would go up, and Watneys Red Barrel might make a comeback.
No one has the slightest idea. 😉
Well like Switzerland and Norway, import duty would have to be paid on imports to Europe, that would reduce competitiveness of international companies based in the UK as a base for the EU. The government would offset that with other tax breaks for corporations, and the taxable burden would increase on normal workers.
The EU will sign the trade agreement with the US, and the UK will be sat on the outside licking the windows.
Well like Switzerland and Norway, import duty would have to be paid on imports to Europe
How much import duty is paid on exports from Norway and Switzerland to the EU?
Over-fishing is a global problem, and so are crap controls.
Boats from other countries fishing in UK waters isn't a global problem.
VAT is set by the member country
Well apart from the EU setting a minimum level that is.
I'd expect the UK would remain EEA? which I assume means free trade, no duty, etc.
How much import duty is paid on exports from Norway and Switzerland to the EU?
dunno but Norway is an incredibly expensive place to buy anything, shopping for fruit n veg probably 2-3 times more expensive than the uk , branded clothing etc, was even more
I also imagine canyon, rosebikes etc would go up quite a bit for us
yep, cos the GBP will be devalued further.
edit: but UK doesn't need to quit EU for that. It's already done this before.
No one has the slightest idea.
This is probably the truest post so far.
I wouldn't have to eat calamari; I could coat some rubber bands in flour and fish urine instead.
Oh I dunno this rings pretty true to me! 🙂
Ooooh, if they towed us south we'd be much warmer ! I'd like that 8)So what would happen if we left europe?
No one has the slightest idea.This is probably the truest post so far.
I'm imaging the Monty Python sketch with the dramatic voiceover, as the tense music builds....
"All of a sudden.... [b]NOTHING HAPPENED!!![/b]"
I'd imagine it'd be a massive anti-climax for all those who've spent their entire political careers banging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it
And for some folk on forums who do the same thing I'd imagine.
No one has the slightest idea.
This is probably the truest post so far.
I disagree
ignoring the tedious xenophobic rhetoric about curvy bananas and abu qatada
I think it would be pretty easy to get some reasonable ideas
how would it affect your industry?
as stated above I believe it would making recruiting the best scientists from europe harder
anyone else
I presume we could still apply for EU funding for our research given that Switzerland does? If we couldn't that would be a giant kick in the baws, would decimate many research groups.how would it affect your industry?
as stated above I believe it would making recruiting the best scientists from europe harderanyone else
On a selfish note werent the 7stanes built with EU funding too!!!!
cant see the UK government putting that level of investment into leisure cycling
Yeah, but Scotland will be independent soon. They'd still get EU funding 😉
would like to see the demographic of ukip voters, im really hoping they arent a majority of pensioners sitting at home reading the Daily Mail and looking to **** up the prospects for future generations...
We'd probably do very well freed of the shackles of the EU.
I'd imagine it'd be a massive anti-climax for all those who've spent their entire political careers banging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it
that's basically what it is.
650 or so members of parliament have their careers as their first interest, and that of the people which they were elected to represent and the country as a whole way down the list.
Media pretty much CGAS either, in general. Major news and scandals sells newspapers and makes big headlines on 10-o'clock news. Not UK just chugging along as normal. Big media corps would be more than happy for a quit, cos it'd sell papers, even if it ultimately would be negative for the industry. Eventually another massive story will come along.
I just say... name 1 single EU directive that Cameron would reverse. Then name 1 single EU directive that Miliband would undo. Sod it... name even one bit of EU legislation that UKIP would want to undo!
No one has the slightest idea.
This is probably the truest post so far.
I disagree
Fair point. What I should have said is "most people don't have a clue" which is why leaving such a complicated question up to a referendum of the British electorate would be a crazy idea. 🙂
Sod it... name even one bit of EU legislation that UKIP would want to undo!
That's a trick question. All of them.
So what you're advocating, DeadlyDarcy, is the abolition of democracy?
To be fair, I don't pay all these taxes to sustain a political system that can then turn around ask idiots like me what I think?
Dictatorship ftw.
Nasty Korea has the right idea 😉
Fair point. What I should have said is "most people don't have a clue" which is why leaving such a complicated question up to a referendum of the British electorate would be a crazy idea
Thankfully we have the powerful prediction of economists and politicians to lead us to clarity on this issue guided only by the steady hand of a [ right wing and nationalistic despite being foreign owned ] free press
Democracy in the capitalist system...it is just fantastic
Once we vote to leave then we can get on to the real issue of blaming the unemployed and the ill for all our problems rather than just foreigners and europeans.
@binners still on top form I see !
There would be lots of big negatives if we left the EU, a lot of employment and foreign investment (eg Japanese car plants) is totally dependent upon us being members. Economically the world is becoming increasingly dominated by a number of large economies US, China, India - do we really think that standing isolated as a country of 60m is going to be an advantage in todays and tomorrows world?
I saw Obama suggested yesterday that perhaps the UK should leave the EU, be very careful, a weakened EU is to the advantage of the US.
Even the Tories are trying to fudge the issue by targeting 2017 as the date for a referendum, ie long enough into to the future so they hope the anti-EU mood softens.
andypaul99 - Member
would like to see the demographic of ukip voters, im really hoping they arent a majority of pensioners sitting at home reading the Daily Mail and looking to **** up the prospects for future generations...POSTED 32 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
and then this was posted without irony?
ohnohesback - Member
We'd probably do very well freed of the shackles of the EU.POSTED 29 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
id say they are middle aged it stwers!, tho the 1st description pretty much describes my dad perfectly!
If anything the anti-EU attitudes are spreading and hardening. By equivocating, Cameron and co may find themselves desperately trying, and failing to control the juggernaut they have set in motion.
I saw Obama suggested yesterday that perhaps the UK should leave the EU
He said the complete opposite of that he said we should stay as it showed we were outword looking and at the heart of foreign matters but it was up tp us. he also said if it was broken we should try and fix it before leaving
Where on earth did you read that as i heard his actual answer
Goes to google
I repeat my point about how the press are helping 😯
With respect to the relationship between the U.K. and the EU, we have a special relationship with the United Kingdom. And we believe that our capacity to partner with a United Kingdom that is active, robust, outward-looking and engaged with the world is hugely important to our own interests as well as the world. And I think the U.K.’s participation in the EU is an expression of its influence and its role in the world, as well as obviously a very important economic partnership.Now, ultimately, the people of the U.K. have to make decisions for themselves. I will say this — that David’s basic point that you probably want to see if you can fix what’s broken in a very important relationship before you break it off makes some sense to me. And I know that David has been very active in seeking some reforms internal to the EU. Those are tough negotiations. You’ve got a lot of countries involved, I recognize that. But so long as we haven’t yet evaluated how successful those reforms will be, I at least would be interested in seeing whether or not those are successful before rendering a final judgment. Again, I want to emphasize these are issues for the people of the United Kingdom to make a decision about, not ours.
jambalaya obama was helping cameron by saying that he should renogotiate b4 thinking of quitting
he also said
"With respect to the relationship between the UK and the EU we have a special relationship with the United Kingdom. And we believe that our capacity to partner with a United Kingdom that is active, robust, outward-looking, and engaged with the world is hugely important to our own interests, as well as the world. And I think the UK's participation in the EU is an expression of its influence and its role in the world, as well as, obviously, a very important economic partnership."
My company sells a lot into Europe, it would make it a lot more difficult for us, and probably impact negatively on my livelihood. I think it's a very complex issue that needs to be decided by economists who fully understand it and a referendum would be a terrible idea and the general public does not really understand it (myself included).
I don't think that you are competent enough to choose the interior decoration in your house, therefore I will decide it for you.
ohnohesback - Member
So what you're advocating, DeadlyDarcy, is the abolition of democracy?
Yes, that's it. Exactly. Nail on ze 'ead.
😆
Jaysus wept.
needs to be decided by economists who fully understand it
What is the old joke ask three economists their view and you get four opinions
TBH I would not trust their opinion or else GO would have got us out of this mess and in fact we would have avoided this mess in the first place, boom and bust would end and we would have permanent growth and low unemployment and the measures taken worldwide would have worked etc
Really would you actually trust the prediction of an economist - you may as well ask an astrologer for all their predictive power
I don't think that you are competent enough to choose the interior decoration in your house, therefore I will decide it for you.
The decoration of my house does not have rippling effects across everyone in the UK and the rest of the world.
Mine does. My taste really is [i]that[/i] bad!
So, European cooperation and integration has to be just about [i]economics[/i] does it?
Dunno, i'm much more concerned about this Independence fairytale.
If we stay in we will be forced to adopt 650b whether we like it or not. If we leave we will be free to choose to run 27.5 or walk.
I doubt if most politicians really understand what they mean by "leaving the EU". Its a lot more complicated than just in/out.
Are they suggesting we carefully unpick 40 years worth of legislation? Which bits do we keep and which bits do we throw out? Do we just keep it all unchanged?
My company sells a lot into Europe, it would make it a lot more difficult for us
Probably almost as difficult as it is for Swiss and Norwegian companies to sell stuff into the EU.
the general public does not really understand it (myself included).
It's OK, we already got that.
I don't know why you're so scathing about economists, JY. I'm sure some of them must have predicted the global credit crisis. Monkeys and shakespeare and all that.
So, European cooperation and integration has to be just about economics does it?
Feel free to suggest other reasons why we should stay or should go.
Feel free to suggest other reasons why we should stay or should go.
Coming from you of all people.
[i]So, European cooperation and integration has to be just about economics does it?
Feel free to suggest other reasons why we should stay or should go. [/i]
EU originally set up to prevent another war in Europe?
Just as economics was not the driving force for Europe, so it should not be the sole reason for leaving. Personally I wish the whole debate could be re-phrased to (1) what needs to be done to Europe to make it a success and (2) do we and others want whatever the answer(s) to (1)? Europe is far more of a social and political project born out of the horrors of European conflict than an economics one and there is part of the problem. It has been far more successful socially and arguably politically (with reservations) than it has been economically.
That is not to say that economics should be ignored. For it is the simple fact that ignorance of economics is causing the social and political unrest that will ultimate see the end of the current structure. Europe needs to be honest about these failings and open in constructive dialogue about what a future EU could and should look like. Sadly that is not happening and the debate is being polarised between in/out which ultimately will not serve us well IMO.
Cameron is kind of on the right track here but without the ultimate vision. There is too much party politics going on for that sadly.
The main driver for the EU was / is Germany's guilt over two World Wars and it's determination not to start another one. Obviously things have moved on a bit in more recent years, now we have the single currency etc.
aracer
both countries seem very expensive to live in, no experience of switzerland but norway is and very high taxed too, is taht teh trade off you want for leaving the EU
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings_by_country.jsp
The main driver for the EU was / is Germany's guilt over two World Wars and it's determination not to start another one. Obviously things have moved on a bit in more recent years, now we have the single currency etc.
Really? Not plan B to achieve dominance in Europe and then a Greater European Empire? 😈
[i]So, European cooperation and integration has to be just about economics does it?[/i]
Feel free to suggest other reasons why we should stay or should go.
As an ex-pat in Spain I'd add free movement of people, for starters.
In an general sense I think it would make bugger all difference. We'd be a member of the EEA and have a negotiated trade/fishing/farming/freedom of movement/regulatory agreement that suits no-one and everyone. Passport control would still have a separate Q for EU/EEA members and people will come and go, laws of physics will remain constant (except time, of which people have more of in southern Europe).
The EU is not the be all and end all but trading with it is important.
Is it possible that being out of the EU but in the EEA would be better for trade overall? (genuine question)
[i]Obviously things have moved on a bit in more recent years, now we have the single currency etc. [/i]
I dunno, its very difficult to pick a fight with your neighbour when they own half your defence industry, your utilitiues and your transport infrastructure.
I dunno, its very difficult to pick a fight with your neighbour when they own half your defence industry, your utilitiues and your transport infrastructure.
Not really. International commerce continued during WW2 with Germany continuing to pay back loans to British banks.
Coming from you of all people.
You might think I should be banned because I don't agree with you, but what's that supposed to mean? 😕
as long as my house continues to increase in value I don't give a crap.
there, I've said it.
wanna make something of it?
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Wouldn't we float away and eventually crash into Greenland..?
Are we insured for that..?
[i]Not really. International commerce continued during WW2 with Germany continuing to pay back loans to British banks[/i]
Slightly different. Todays situation is more like if Lanacaster Bombers were beign built by Krupps munitions works (they weren't were they?)
both countries seem very expensive to live in, no experience of switzerland but norway is and very high taxed too, is taht teh trade off you want for leaving the EU
Jeez - you did this before. You see Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden up near the top of that list? Scroll down a few pages you'll find Macedonia, Moldova, Albania located a little below Romania. Do you really think there's a correlation between EU membership and cost of living? Why exactly would ours change if we left the EU?
Of course the cost of living is also totally unrelated to international trade relationships.
Probably almost as difficult as it is for Swiss and Norwegian companies to sell stuff into the EU.
Yeah, but why make it harder for yourself? I work in a industry with tight margins already, the extra overheads to cut through the red tape every time we exported to Europe would potentially make us have to raise our prices and become uncompetitive. Free trade within Europe is a legitimate argument for staying in Europe, not sure why you tried to make me sound like a idiot for stating it. 😕
except time, of which people have more of in southern Europe
Wish that were actually true 🙁
You might think I should be banned because I don't agree with you, but what's that supposed to mean?
😆
One assumes you have the link to that picture of the straw fella permanently on your clipboard so I'll let you post it.
You're denying you think I should be banned?