Just how long can the workers stay out, when their cash flow stops, when they are beaten on the picket line by the Police, where scab labour or the newly unemployed are brought in to do their jobs,where secondary picketing is not allowed, think miners strike and the print workers strikes of previous years.
When the unions have all their funds seized by the courts, where the parents and the children are stuck together for days on end with no money coming in,causing intolerable stress on relationships, where your mortgage and credit card provider attempt to make you homeless and bankrupt, because you cant pay your bills.
It all happened before with thatcher, and the unions where seriously much stronger and had a lot more clout then.
I was even on strike.
Discuss nicely.
What do you think?
Don simon , and what do you think!
They give up and go back to work, after wrecking their own lives and shooting themselves in both feet.... If they still have a job to go to.
where the parents and the children are stuck together for days on end with no money coming in,causing intolerable stress on relationships, where your and credit card provider attempt to make you homeless and bankrupt, because you cant pay your bills
You have to ask yourself which is more important: Your job, or your family.
No job is EVER worth an ounce of what you describe to me.
Don simon , and what do you think!
My thoughts have been aired on other threads, so repeating them here will not serve any purpose except to feed....
Basically if they have a justified reason for striking (as opposed to wanting an outdated and unaffordable method of pensions provision for all (even new joiners) members "NO MATTER WHAT") then the public keep supporting them....
but if not and they won't compromise in negotiations then they loose all public sympathy and eventually have to cave in to a worse deal than they were offered in the first place.
Unions are great in general but.... the sort of person who wants to be a senior union official are often the problem - raving anti establishment idiots who screw the rest of us moderate members over.... sometimes we want a bit of common sense and reality in the negotiations being done on our behalf by our unions!
it would be difficult to see a strike with teachers that went on and on
PeterPoddy - Memberwhere the parents and the children are stuck together for days on end with no money coming in,causing intolerable stress on relationships, where your and credit card provider attempt to make you homeless and bankrupt, because you cant pay your bills
You have to ask yourself which is more important: Your job, or your family.
No job is EVER worth an ounce of what you describe to me.Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post
Sadly it happened during the miners and steelworkers strikes, where families turned against each other.
Is it thatcher dies and we riot at her state funeral?
Sadly it happened during the miners and steelworkers strikes, where families turned against each other.
Mr Ideology, have you met Mrs Reality?
You have to ask yourself which is more important: Your job, or your family.
No job is EVER worth an ounce of what you describe to me. If I don't like it, I leave. Striking is dumb.
True, but what is the option? if there are no other jobs to go to what kind of choice is it?
Consider the following, live in swansea, the northeast, the places where a lot of public sector employers are. If you look these are places that do not offer much in the way of alternative employment.
Something i learnt working at the Shotton steel works last year
[url= http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2010/03/30/shotton-steel-remembers-day-when-6-500-were-sacked-55578-26134139/ ]how to destroy everything.[/url]
you make 6500 redundant in one day and see what happens.
when they are beaten on the picket line by the Police
Assuming that the police aren't on strike..
Mrmo, it was a very sad time at Shotton i lived down the road, and had a devastating efect on all the surrounding areas, 6500 workers at shotton lost their jobs but so did a lot of ontractors,and allied trades who relied on shotton for work, the train and lorry drivers , the shop keepers , the food suppliers etc etc.
Ian Munro, the POlice are not allowed to strike by law.
Sadly it happened during the miners and steelworkers strikes, where families turned against each other.
I'm from Nottinghamshire, and I'm sure you know what we didn't do.......
So what happens when the governmnet doesnt give in to strikers
The country prospers. The country is only efficient when all workers are paid based on the ability of the company they work for to pay, and the desirability of that workers talent in the open market.
Collective bargaining and strikes result in all workers being paid the same: there is no incentive for making an effort. If the unions demands are met companies overpay the weak to retain the talented, resulting in their end products being unduly expensive.
That "how to destroy everything" article misses one crucial fact, if something is un-profitable then going on strike isn't going to convince the managers and owners who are making a loss to keep it open?
It implies that the owners somehow wanted to shaft the little guy at the bottom. At the ened of the day if a plants profitable then it'll stay open. Even in a communist utopia guverened by Arthur Scargill that'd be the case!
How about the teachers strike during their 6 weeks off, or the week off 6 weeks later - or the two weeks off after another 6 weeks and so on - you get the idea.
I imagine this has been discussed already.
Oh and my wifes a teacher
[i]Ian Munro, the POlice are not allowed to strike by law.[/i]
Who would enforce the law if they chose to though?
the POlice are not allowed to strike by law.
Which raises the important question of who would arrest them?
[edit] dam too slow!
On a serious note, arent the police, army and courts deliberatly paced outside the governments powers (i.e. under the Royal Family) to stop the government having too much power.
My boss went on strike for more than 2 years during the miner strikes.
He thought it would be a couple of weeks at best and had some savings to get by on
The country prospers. The country is only efficient when all workers are paid based on the ability of the company they work for to pay, and the desirability of that workers talent in the open market.Collective bargaining and strikes result in all workers being paid the same: there is no incentive for making an effort. If the unions demands are met companies overpay the weak to retain the talented, resulting in their end products being unduly expensive.
erm, I find it sad that people actually think this.
How about the teachers strike during their 6 weeks off, or the week of 6 weeks later - or the two weeks off after another 6 weeks.
do you find many jobs where people strike during a time they are not working, what odd behaviour.
thisisnotaspoon - Member
That "how to destroy everything" article misses one crucial fact, if something is un-profitable then going on strike isn't going to convince the managers and owners who are making a loss to keep it open?It implies that the owners somehow wanted to shaft the little guy at the bottom. At the ened of the day if a plants profitable then it'll stay open. Even in a communist utopia guverened by Arthur Scargill that'd be the case!
Posted 14 minutes ago # Report-Post
It just needed investment, just like Bidston Steel had the investment and so did Brymbo , all within about 15 distance, Bidston steel was a private steelworks, and worked thjerough the steel strike, Brymbo was a GKN owned one, and partially worked, bioth got closed down with the huge loss of jobs, in fact both Bidston and Brymbo where sold to China and re built there.
do you find many jobs where people strike during a time they are not working, what odd behaviour.
I can't think of many people who would threaten to inflict suffering and misery on innocent children in order to extort a bit of extra cash out of work. Why not do a march in the holidays and leave the kids education out of it.
I can't think of many people who would threaten to inflict suffering and misery on innocent children in order to extort a bit of extra cash out of work.
And here we go again. 🙄
thisisnotaspoon - Member
That "how to destroy everything" article misses one crucial fact, if something is un-profitable then going on strike isn't going to convince the managers and owners who are making a loss to keep it open?It implies that the owners somehow wanted to shaft the little guy at the bottom. At the ened of the day if a plants profitable then it'll stay open. Even in a communist utopia guverened by Arthur Scargill that'd be the case!
Tinas
i am not trying to argue about whether or not it needed investment, and my opinion and having spoken to a few people, i used to work for Corus now Tata, Port Talbot is not safe, S****horpe has just seen another round of redundancies, Redcar went last year, although since partially reopened.
I doubt Shotton could have survived long term even with the investment, costs etc make heavy steel production in the UK as a long term prospect doubtful, strategically having to import all steel slab is probably not the best thing but economically.
Anyway back to my point, If you shut down a big employer there is a huge knock on and it can destroy a community, it is not just the workers, the contractors, the bus drivers, train drivers, shops, schools, everything. 30 years later Shotton is still not back on its feet, and this is somewhere with decent links to the centre of the UK, look at the welsh valleys...
And look at Port Talbot to see a disaster waiting to happen.
Yes your are right DS this is like an exercise in seeing who can repeat their point of view the most whilst keeping the same high level of hyperbole.....and they say a teachers job is easy 😉
Yes your are right DS this is like an exercise in seeing who can repeat their point of view the most whilst keeping the same high level of hyperbole.....and they say a teachers job is easy
While I can agree on one hand, I am duty bound to disagee on the other. Feel free to disagree. 😉
damn you and your trickery
the big question is, is any of this striking going to affect bike bling getting into the country? When I need a new chi chi part for my bike to salve my conscience of not actually having ridden my bike recently I don't want to be waiting for some pinkos to get their arses back to work because they're striking for an extra 10minutes lunch break.
London city bankers not getting to work is one thing, bike boutiques having empty shelves is quite another! Cross the picket lines, break the unions, I want my slr c64 godsdammit!
Royal Mail are trying to provoke the Posties to strike once again but we are not taking the bait, work to rule is working a treat as they run on overtime due to the last lot of cuts.We will be in the same position as CanadaPost who have decided to lockout the workers due to the work to rule.
The working classes will only take so much!
[b]work to rule is working a treat as they run on overtime due to the last lot of cuts[/b]
But RM has a statutory duty to deliver the mail,or face large fines and there are lots of other pop it through the door services.
The country prospers. The country is only efficient when all workers are paid based on the ability of the company they work for to pay, and the desirability of that workers talent in the open market.Collective bargaining and strikes result in all workers being paid the same: there is no incentive for making an effort. If the unions demands are met companies overpay the weak to retain the talented, resulting in their end products being unduly expensive.
Meanwhile in the 21st century...
I'm from Nottinghamshire, and I'm sure you know what we didn't do.......
Carry on mining coal?
project - MemberIan Munro, the POlice are not allowed to strike by law.
They can work to rule though
plenty of people prepared to work and willing to take your job and who don't care at all about the issues or "solidarity"
personal debt now is a lot higher than in the early eighties, so peoples propensity to undertake a continuous industrial action is much reduced, the reality is that i'ts going to be a rolling series of one day strikes alternated between the different activities
Assuming that the police aren't on strike..
Why would the police strike when they'd be making all that lovely, lovely overtime?
And look at Port Talbot to see a disaster waiting to happen.
I remember the Welsh union reps smug as you like on TV after they had done their deal to shut the more profitable Ravenscraig. All the best when it comes round, at least you will have the Shotton and the Craigs examples to show you what it will be like.
can't think of many people who would threaten to inflict suffering and misery on innocent children
you try teaching the little shits all day and who said its a threat..
can't think of many people who would threaten to inflict suffering and misery on innocent children
Don't know but i would assume that although there will be a picket line and/or marches. The school day will be arranged so that the exam years get priority and continuos education, it is the extra curricular stuff that will go first followed by non-exam. Yes it is a pain and seems unfair but do the air traffic control guys strike in mid-Feb or the height of summer? Do the underground strike on a Sunday/Bank holiday or mid week?
You strike to inflict inconvenience if you can.
And if your job/conditions were under threat then you'd hope that a union would stand up for you. How far would you like them to go? A wee chat in teh bosses office or if needs be a strike?
Oh and i'm not striking as Scottish teachers were not included in this, it is an English strike. I was not balloted even though my union is one of the striking ones.
Just of of interest,DMJ would you respect us not striking and instead working to rule. Doing 35hrs a week and no more? A long term policy of this would cause far more disruption.In fact most of us think of a series of one day strikes as the lesser of two evils. Like onehundredth we are not out...YET
can't think of many people who would threaten to inflict suffering and misery on innocent children in order to extort a bit of extra cash out of work.
Complete pish,brilliant dramatic statement though. Have you thought about joining the drama club? Wed lunchtimes (industrial action allowing)
The roads should be quieter for the day as most people will be on strike it appears, lets just hope traffic wardens stay out for a long time.
Dmm just remembered our traffic wardens are privatised.
I for one am excited to see where they find tens of thousands of scab teachers from
carbon337 - MemberHow about the teachers strike during their 6 weeks off, or the week off 6 weeks later - or the two weeks off after another 6 weeks and so on - you get the idea.
I imagine this has been discussed already.
Not really discussed much as it'd be moronic.
Well what exaxtly did your strike achieve yesterday, absolutely nothing, and what will the next if they ever happen achieve.
as above plus one.
Roads where a lot quieter,
Well what exaxtly did your strike achieve yesterday, absolutely nothing
You silly billy. One thing it certainly achieved was to make folk like me aware of the issues faced by teachers and indeed many other public sector workers, IE the current government want to shaft them out of the pensions and benefits they were promised when they took the jobs, in order to keep taxes low enough to appease their wealthy cronies.
So, quite successful I thought. All power to them.
And yes, I was at the protest in central London, to support those protesting and to try to gain a greater understanding of their situation, rather than just be spoon-fed biased crap by the right-wing media...
And yes, I was at the protest in central London, to support those protesting and to try to gain a greater understanding of their situation, rather than just be spoon-fed biased crap by the [b]unions[/b]
There fixed it for you!
One thing it certainly achieved was to make folk like me aware of the issues faced by teachers and indeed many other public sector workers,
Agreed, and I've come to an unpopular conclusion. 😉
There fixed it for you!
No you jolly well have not actually.
F for Fail.
Must Try Harder.
Elfin - tell me, did you protest or argue in any way against Gordon Brown's 1997 change in taxation law, that removed the 20 % dividend tax credit collected by private pension funds - which brought in about 5 billion a year to the exchequer, but at the same time gutted a great many otherwise healthy private pension funds, leading to the closure of the vast majority of final salary schemes?
Just asking like! Don't get me wrong, not all Gordon's fault, the payment holidays taken in the run up to that by a great many forms played a part, but, like I say, the chancellor raised private pension funds to pay for public sector expansion...
And here we go again....
Another thread shall descend in to the usual tedium.
it all brings a reduced pension nearer for some ...............
Elfin - tell me, did you protest or argue in any way against Gordon Brown's 1997 change in taxation law
I wasn't aware of it. Maybe that was cos no-one protested publicly about it.
Just saying, like... 😉
And here we go again....Another thread shall descend in to the usual tedium.
Don't worry Flashy; I usually get bored very quickly with Labby, so I imagine I'll probbly be ignoring him so no need to worry about long drawn out pointless arguments.
Anyway, I don't actually need to argue with anyone as I'm right. If they want to be wrong then that's their choice and I can't stop them.
rather than just be spoon-fed biased crap by the right-wing media...
Yawn.... of course the opposing view point is all original thinking and not at all influenced by outside forces?
Yes.
NEXT!
Regarding police strikes - as has already been said police officers can't strike, but police staff - who now make up around 50% of police employees - can. If police staff go on strike then there would be no call takers, no people to pay the wages, no people to build case files, no crime scene investigators, and in several police forces no custody staff.
All this has changed over the last 10 or so years.
I don't think an all out strike is likely in any case, but a rolling work to rule, planned to cause disruption is possible. A lot of public sector workers are cross - not just about pensions and pay freezes, but about service quality and the impact on the public. Autumn could be a stormy time.
And here we go again....Another thread shall descend in to the usual tedium.
you enter evey political thread to let us know how scornful you are
WHY?
I can see why you would not want to engage with some of the folk on here [ that is not an insult* in case it appears as one] but dont understand why you still say something.
* If i was right wing I would not argue with the rabid lefties either. Something stoner said to elfin made me realise how pointless it would be. It is shame we cannot exchange views without scorn. I am trying to get better.
Police, Army and Fire Service pensions aren't being effected as they had theirs changed to new comers around 2006. Sadly for the new starters the old times grumbled a bit raised an eye brow and realised they can still retire in their 40s on a good pension based on final salary so carried on regardless.
Striking is horrible the effects on all can be devastating, I'd hate to see it happen but people are fighting for something that effects them. They have the right to strike but I do hope it doesn't come to that. Our pension needs reviewed but we don't need shafted.
Something stoner said to elfin
😀
Probbly wasn't particularly complimentary or respectful, was it?
S'why I can't really be bothered with the political threads much any more. Same old same old, with a bunch of deluded right-wingers who don't realise how wrong they often are, such is the tiny nature of the bubbles in which they live. Trouble is, they're too frightened to step outside of their bubbles now and then, have a shufty about what's actually happening in the Rest Of The World. Shame, they might learn something, become better developed people.
Oh Whell.
Same old same old, with a bunch of deluded right-wingers who don't realise how wrong they often are, such is the tiny nature of the bubbles in which they live. Trouble is, they're too frightened to step outside of their bubbles now and then, have a shufty about what's actually happening in the Rest Of The World. Shame, they might learn something, become better developed people.
Exactly the same mirror image the right wingers see in the lefties.
The right wingers hold all the cards at the moment as they pay the wages of the strikers and make the rules of the jobs they did.
Exactly the same mirror image the right wingers see in the lefties
Cept it's not. People who espouse more 'left' wing ideologies tend to be more socially developed and enlightened folk. People who may have experienced life just a little bit beyond their cosy bubbles. And who have the ability to see the Bigger Picture.
Right wingers often tend to try to condemn lefties as 'communists' or whatever. 'Socialism' is a dirty word to them. Truth is they are interested mainly just in their own personal gain and comfort, all other things become secondary and often unimportant to them. Things like the welfare of the poor and needy, for example. As demonstrated so beautifully by CallMeDave and his cronies. Screw the poor rather than annoy the rich.
Thing is though, who can afford to take the hit more? The answer's blindingly obvious. The wealthy could afford to cut back on their own personal wealth a bit, and the poorest woon't have to suffer so much. Society as a whole would benefit a lot more.
But then, of course, there's 'no such thing as Society', is there boys and girls...?
Indeed Elfin, [i]there is no such thing, There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations, because there is no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation and it is, I think, one of the tragedies in which many of the benefits we give, which were meant to reassure people that if they were sick or ill there was a safety net and there was help, that many of the benefits which were meant to help people who were unfortunate—" It is all right. We joined together and we have these insurance schemes to look after it" . That was the objective, but somehow there are some people who have been manipulating the system and so some of those help and benefits that were meant to say to people:"All right, if you cannot get a job, you shall have a basic standard of living!" but when people come and say:"But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!" You say:"Look" It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!"[/i]
hope that helps!
If police staff go on strike then there would be no call takers, [s]no people to pay the wages[/s], no people to build case files, [s]no crime scene investigators[/s], and in several police forces no custody staff.
Save for those I crossed out, PCs would cover
hope that helps!
Quoting Thatchler never helps, Labby.
Besides, silly cah contradicted herself anyway:
We joined together
= Society.
Hope That Helps.
Project,you are,as ever full of it. 7,000 schools closed,and that was without all the unions being out. I wouldn't try to deny you your democratic right to be a Thatcherite fan-boi, but please try not to froth at the mouth so much.
project - Member
it all brings a reduced pension nearer for some ...............POSTED 12 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
That almost looks like gloating, of course you wouldn't be such an arse as to do that would you?
Elfin, I believe that was her point... or is the concept of society as an abstract constituting entirely of individuals beyond you 😉
7000 schools closed only had an effect on those parents who use schools as somewhere the kids go when theyre working,
Seriously i would never ever gloat at somebody having reduced pensions, unless theyre an MP, or a banker.
There just needs to be a widescale re-evaluation of the pensions market, to make it more equal, sadly thats never going to happen, because the governmnet cant give in,just like it didnt give in to the steel unions and the coal miners, it simply desimated their work forces and their unions..
CaptainFlashheart - MemberAnd here we go again....
Another thread shall descend in to the usual tedium.
I think it was the week long break in it, what must've invigorated the tedium.
Good point well made........as I've come to always expect from you Flashheart. Seriously mate, so much insight - how do you do it ?
I believe that was her point
Her point was, that we're a 'society' when it benefits us, but we'll reject and discard those who we don't want near us when it suits us.
Same old same old, with a bunch of deluded right-wingers who don't realise how wrong they often are, such is the tiny nature of the bubbles in which they live. Trouble is, they're too frightened to step outside of their bubbles now and then, have a shufty about what's actually happening in the Rest Of The World. Shame, they might learn something, become better developed people.
your empathy is touching but i fear that you afford these people the defence of ignorance. people aren't right wing because they're unaware of the injustices of society.
they're right wing because they don't give a ****.
people aren't right wing because they don't realise the injustices of society.they're right wing because they don't give a ****.
I was trying to be polite and show at least a modicum of respect, TM.
But, erm, yeah, you're right.
Modern industrial civilization has developed within a system of convienient myths. The driving force has been individual material gain, which is accepted as legitimate, even praiseworthy, on grounds that private vices yield public benefits in the classic formulation. It has long been understood very well that a society based on this principal will destroy itself in time. It can only persist with whatever suffering and injustice it entails as long as it is possible to pretend that the destructive forces that humans create are limited, that the world is an infinite resource and that the world is an infinite garbage can. At this stage in history one of two things is possible. Either the general population will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community interests guided by values of solidarity, sympathy and concern for others or alternatavely there will be no destiny for anyone to control.
I loved the Thatcher quote Zulu-Eleven ! I specially liked this : [i]"But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!"[/i] Thatcher doubled unemployment ! 😀
I also thought this was a little beauty : [i]"there are some people who have been manipulating the system and so some of those help and benefits that were meant to........"[/i] The cost to the government of benefit payments shot up under Thatcher ! ......as so did the tax burden to pay for it
Hope That Helps.
Well it certainly helped me.
that we're a 'society' when it benefits us, but we'll reject and discard those who we don't want near us when it suits us.
Not at all, read what she actually said again - that [i]no such thing as an entitlement unless someone has first met an obligation[/i] and [i]t is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it [/i] - which is, like it or not, a very close parallel to the marxist principle of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Ernie - Allowing for inflation, social security expenditure in the UK increased by 122 per cent from £69bn in 1978-79 to £152bn in 2008-09... so, under your feted Labour government, it got far, far worse, despite a huge economic boom!
Not at all, read what she actually said again
No thanks. It'll be the same crap no matter how many times I read it.
You can if you want though. Over and over and over and over again....
Ooh! TdF is on!
it is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it
which totally discounts those that have been paying ni contributions themselves before unemployment.
if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it
it was sweet of her to absolve 3 million people of their 'duty' in this regard wasn't it. i'm starting to warm to her with hindsight.
of course, with that hindsight, it's obvious to us all that she was in fact a completely disingenuous liar, who in 1978 claimed...........
It is no good having great areas where people have no jobs
............. before laying waste to whole swathes of the country with the closure of industries that supported those 'great areas'.
but i don't need to tell anyone on here this do i, as mtb'ers we've all been to the welsh valleys, riding our bikes through the welsh mining landscape that she destroyed on ideological grounds.
I've also ridden in the Northumbrian fells, surrounded by old lead mines, Cornwall, surrounded by old Tin mines, the Yorkshire coast, surrounded by old Alum quarries and North Wales, surrounded by old Slate Quarries.
Should the government of the day have propped up all those industries indefinitely as well?
Ernie - Allowing for inflation, social security expenditure in the UK increased by 122 per cent from £69bn in 1978-79 to £152bn in 2008-09... so, under your feted Labour government, it got far, far worse, despite a huge economic boom!
So presumably under Labour benefit payments were more generous than under the Tories, and ? so ? what's this got to do with Thatcher ? what's your point ?
My point was that Thatcher was complaining that people weren't working because according to her : [i]"what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!"[/i] and yet she DOUBLED unemployment.
I also pointed out that although she complained about people being on benefits, she actually put millions more in benefit.
This has bugger all to do with what the last Labour government in 2008-09. Stunning diversionary tactics even by your standards Zulu-Eleven.
Should the government of the day have propped up all those industries indefinitely as well?
if they were closed due to ideology rather than long term socio/economic prudence then yes.
but that rather misses the point that i was making regarding the disigenuousness of margaret thatcher.
in the case studies highlighted, did the leader of the opposition claim that they were opposed to widespread unemployment before creating it ?
Ernie!
1997 Q2 claimant count - first under labour: 1.557 million
2010 Q1 claimant count - last under Labour: 1.585 million
Trailmonkey!
in the case studies highlighted, did the leader of the opposition claim that they were opposed to widespread unemployment before creating it ?
I believe that the [i]Gordon Brown tm[/i] explanation would be that the global economic downturn in the early 1980's cannot be blamed on the Prime Minister, that increased unemployment was a widespread phenomenon and a symptom of a global recession, and that there was a severe global economic recession affecting much of the developed world in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The United States and Japan exited recession relatively early, but high unemployment would continue to affect other OCED nations through till at least 1985.
See, do you understand the theory yet
Global recession in the 1980's - all Thatchers Fault
Global Recession in the 2000's, nothing to do with Gordon
if they were closed due to ideology rather than long term socio/economic prudence then yes.
All a social experiment that has come back to bite us on the ass, like most of Thatchers policies. When you consider the company EDF, the UK's largest energy supplier is owned by the French Government and are quite profitable, it really does show how short sighted Governments in this country since the 80's have been.
your empathy is touching but i fear that you afford these people the defence of ignorance. people aren't right wing because they're unaware of the injustices of society.they're right wing because they don't give a ****.
Which is why I propose a cull of such people...
Allowing for inflation, social security expenditure in the UK increased by 122 per cent from £69bn in 1978-79 to £152bn in 2008-09
Did you see what had happened to the cost of rented accommodation between those dates? And the significant reduction in the amount of social housing available?
Might explain the massive rise in benefit payments. Rented accommodation is 2, 3 times the cost of equivalent social housing.
Oh, whose idea was it, to sell off loads of social housing with the right to buy scheme, yet not use the money raised to provide more social housing, thus leading to the ridiculous level of inflation in the housing market, and the massive increase in the amount of housing benefit payments?
See, that's Tory economics for you. Short term gain, long term pain. Let's make ourselves and our cronies richer right now, then we'll be fine while everyone else has to pay the long-term cost....
I'd be fascinated to hear exactly how Labby would get this country out of the mess it's now in. Loads of waffle, but no actual solutions.
Typical Tory really then! 😆