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I'll post up the answer I get. It will be interesting
I know there has been much discussion and even public announcements. A lot of stuff would have to be negotiated tho.
I think you will find that they are ALL of our boats.
[i]I think you'll find that[/i] I think you'll find that they are actually belongeth to Queen Liz, hence 'Her Majesty's Royal Navy'.
So; you gain full independence, queen no longer your head of state = you is no have any boats.
It's quite simple. You don't have to like it, you just have to accept it.
So, without a navy, how are you going to protect your seas?
Not read all of that: has anyone asked whether North East England can join Scotland, please?
elf - I think yo will find that they are the UKs boats so scotland gets 10% of them 🙂
Actually I doubt we will want much of the current fleet given that what Scotland needs is a small number of coastguard / small vessels - An independent Scotland is going to be out of nato and neutral and not going off killing people in far flung lands
Protect out sea from who? copters mainly I would think we would use
miketually - MemberNot read all of that: has anyone asked whether North East England can join Scotland, please?
This is an intersting question. I think if you asked nicely and all agreed.
Do you think Alex will be negotiating a fair and equal deal, from a position of strength TJ? Or do you think that the Tory government will have a hissy fit, throw it's toys out of the pram and tell Scotland to **** right off!
Hmmmmmm. I wonder.......
TandemJeremy - MemberProtect our sea from who?
Welsh corsairs.
So; you gain full independence, queen no longer your head of state.
If Scotland became independant they would probably allow England to keep the queen as their head of state.
I actually doubt a referendum will vote yes.
The Rump UK government will not be in a hugely strong position needing the oil and the electricity they get from Scotland.
If they do have a hissy fit they will lose I suspect.
elf - I think yo will find that they are the UKs boats so scotland gets 10% of them
No, I think [i]you[/i] will find that the Royal Navy has allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, and not to anyone else. Ergo, you'd have no boats.
Why do you think we'd let you have any of our boats?
You carry on with your dream. Never gonna happen. Not while you've got anything of any value. Once the oil and gas runs out, then we might cut you loose, as you'll be nothing but a hindrance to us...
Protect out sea from who? copters mainly I would think we would use
Need boats to fishery protection properly. Not expensive boats though (the one I served on was based on a deep sea trawler design) - not having to pay a share of those aircraft carriers (if they belong to the Queen) would probably free up the necessary funds.
queen no longer your head of state
Dont think there's been any statements or decisions on who would be the head of state. We could be independent and keep ol' Liz, no?
not be in a hugely strong position needing the oil and the electricity they get from Scotland.
I'm sure we can do a reasonable mutually beneficial oil deal with the [i]Crown Dependency of the Shetland Islands [/i] and cut Scotland out of the loop 😉
Rab C Nesbit for head of state!
On teh head of state - it would still be our current lot until the people decided they wanted a republic. Duke of Edinburgh after all. So phil the greek and Liz
thats the position stated as I understand it
I think you'll find that I think you'll find that they are actually belongeth to Queen Liz, hence 'Her Majesty's Royal Navy'.So; you gain full independence, queen no longer your head of state = you is no have any boats.
I will type this really quietly little lamb; she is not really anything other than a nominal head of state.Nor is she any more English than Welsh or Scottish,as nominal head of the UK. So run this past me again,what makes England get to keep the [b]British[/b] navy when the UK splits up?
And cheeky edit;
You carry on with your dream. Never gonna happen. Not while you've got anything of any value. Once the oil and gas runs out, then we might cut you loose, as you'll be nothing but a hindrance to us...
And there will not be a truer sentence written on this thread.
phil the greek
Racist!
Rab C Nesbit for head of state!
I thought he was already first minister 😉
Charlie and Craig (The Proclaimers) for Transport minister and U.S Ambassador respectively!
Out of curiosity, what would be the recourse if a negotiated settlement couldn't be reached... UN intervention?
Elfinsafety - MemberWhy do you think we'd let you have any of our boats?
Because there is no "we" and "our". They are a UK asset regardless of who they report to. I'm sure the Ununited Kingdom would be welcome to keep the proportional majority that they paid for, or to keep the entire lot but pay the difference.
You can't scam a country just by putting all the assets in the wife's name.
TandemJeremy - Member
miketually - Member
Not read all of that: has anyone asked whether North East England can join Scotland, please?This is an intersting question. I think if you asked nicely and all agreed.
I don't suppose you'd be interested in taking the Northern bit of that other pain in the ass island off Liverpool, get yourself some more Rangers supporters..
So run this past me again,what makes England get to keep the British navy [b]when[/b] the UK splits up?
What do you mean, 'when'? 😆
It's not going to happen! So stop being silly, and accept that you are ruled from London.
You might not like it, but there's nothing you can do about it. So stop worrying about it and concentrate on building yer trams or whatever, try doing something properly for a change.
Bloody daft you lot.... 😀
Turkeys voting for Christmas, quite frankly. A brief period of childish satisfaction after the initial vote. Sticking two fingers up at 'the oppressor' (who'll actually be quietly gratified to see the back of you). Before you're grovelling back, cap in hand, when the economy does a Greece with in a few years
this^
the likelihood of Scottish politicians having a long term plan (and the political stability to implement it) is almost non-existent.
let them have the oil money (what's left of it) they will soon be the poor man of europe and just another portugal/greece/iceland.
I wish the independence mob would STFU.
We've got a great deal up here. Lots of devolved powers and all the benefits of union.
Plus the whining Sassenachs have never been so pissed off with us on account of how we've got it so good and that's got to be a good thing.
the whining Sassenachs
Racist.
With Cameron trying to force the issue, bearing in mind there is only one elected Tory MP is Scotland, and "The Iron Lady" at the cinema's, I doubt the vote would go his way.
Then again, the Tories have been trying to tell Scotland what the Scottish want for years, which only makes Salmond's job easier......maybe he does want rid of us?? 😉
Racist
Go on compare me to hitler and invoke Godwins Law!
Protect out sea from who?
You will have a duty to patrol the coasts from people seeking to enter the country illegally. If you did not take this seriously then that big wall would need to be re-erected to control immigration / terrorism.
CaptainFlashheart - Member
the whining Sassenachs
Racist.
Hmm, think I prefer that to 'Nigel'
tj - can we get how the 'common' (as in shared) royals are paid for added to ze SNP Questions list, presumably 50/50 as they'll be split between us ?
I know it's complex, but I'd happen to like to be told the truth (by both sets of excrement involved in the argument) and I'd like the facts established before the deal rather than paying lawyers to resolve them after.
I fail to see how Scotland can vote without knowing the facts, and I don't want them to vote without a clear understanding of Englands liabilties and I want all tossers involved to be accountable for any lies and ball ups.
e.g say I was a politician and I gave you a wish, and you said I'd like my cock to reach the ground, and I said no problem, so you said ok, I suspect you'd be less than pleased if I chopped your legs off
gusamac - its a perfectly valid point. Informed consent is the key
Plus the whining Sassenachs have never been so pissed off
Be nice now - it can't be easy having saddled themselves with a bunch of tossers who are busy screwing over their social structures, while ours are plodding along quite nicely.
The thing is we heard all the same prophecies of doom and gloom in the run up to the devolution vote - the English really are starting to sound like a bunch of political bunny boilers. What's next - we vote 'yes' for independence and you start threatening to kill yourselves?
How come you said that Scotland (indie Scotland that is) would be out of NATO?
I would have thought that it would have wanted to be in NATO given that a large part of it is surrounded by said ocean, and it would be the first place that the red menace (not ManU before anyone says it) would have to fly over/bomb on the way to get us.
Also, what are you going to tell the combined Scottish regiments if there's suddenly no work for them? No NATO means no peacekeeping. You're not likely to pick a fight with anyone, so you won't need a standing army. They might not be happy with that.
Oh, and regarding the navy, we don't have much left any more, so going for a percentage of it might mean that you actually get a percentage of a ship. Maybe a life raft or two. Or the old stuff that is in dock until it can be turned into razors. That would do for fishery protection wouldn't it?
Serious point though, can you ask the SNP what their plans are for the armed forces post-independence. I really would like to know.
What's next - we vote 'yes' for independence
You're not going to have the chance to vote. So I woon't worry about it if I were you. 🙂
Do any Scottish people here seriously think Scotland will ever become independent (at least while there's still any oil left)?
And if so, do you also believe in Santa Claus? Unicorns? The Tooth Fairy?
accept that you are ruled from London...so stop worrying about it and concentrate on building yer trams or whatever, try doing something properly for a change.
This bit is really good - remind me again, the London Olympics are now running at about £5billion overspend. The numbers of kids involved in sport in England is [i]falling[/i], so the legacy of that £9 billion vanity project will be what - some unused stadiums slowly decaying in the east end somewhere. 😆
it would be the first place that the red menace (not ManU before anyone says it) would have to fly over/bomb on the way to get us.
LOL - are you Rip Van Winkle? The Warsaw Pact disappeared a wee while back now. There is no red menace!
willard - I can answer you a bit about the armed forces stuff.
Its a controversial position in the party but I believe the position is to not be in nato but to be neutral.
The scottish regiment ( I think its all amalgamated into one now) would be a defence force for the defence of Scotland and UN peackeeping. Navy would be coastal and fisheries protection only. Airforce dunno
conventional forces only no nuclear
conventional forces only no nuclear
Actually, without the money spaffed on the willy waving vanity project that is Trident, running a Scottish Defence Force would be a lot more feasible, especially if it's also free of the ridiculous procurement snafus that characterise current defence spending.
The whole is bigger than the sum of its parts.
That is all you need to know.
EDIT: that and how to inflate tubeless tyres. That's quite useful as well.
Yup- an how many coastal defence vessels can one buy for 10% of the spend on the new aircraft carriers?
The British (English) could hire the Scottish Regiment for a suitable fee. It's well know that us Scot's are bloody handy in a good rammie !
And as for The Royal Scottish (Stewart ?) Navy, we are also rather handy at building boats that come in any shade of grey you like. Or we could just hang on to the two sitting at the shipbuilders on the Clyde just now.
IBM subs you can do without.
This bit is really good - remind me again, the London Olympics are now running at about £5billion overspend. The numbers of kids involved in sport in England is falling, so the legacy of that £9 billion vanity project will be what - some unused stadiums slowly decaying in the east end somewhere.
Stadia that you'll have paid for but will never get to use, probably.
I'll hopefully be using the velodrome and swimming pool now and then though. And i dare say some footy team will get to use the main stadium. What return will you be seeing for your investment? Oh...
Still, at least you've got that nice trams system in Edinburgh to use.
Oh....
Face it; the onions of a couple of million Scottish folk don't count for owt, when you consider Scotland's continued (albeit decreasing) importance to the UK economy.
Once again (cos you've not answered this one yet, strangely):
Do any Scottish people here seriously think Scotland will ever become independent (at least while there's still any oil left)?And if so, do you also believe in Santa Claus? Unicorns? The Tooth Fairy?
Answer pliz thx.
ditch_jockey - Member
LOL - are you Rip Van Winkle? The Warsaw Pact disappeared a wee while back now. There is no red menace!
I dunno. With all the gas that they have, a democratic government controlled by former KGB and Communist party members, and a lot of places that they feel they should be in, I reckon Russia will be making moves in the future. We are already seeing a lot more noise from their long range recon planes than we have done in a while.
TJ, thanks for that information. At least it shows that they have put some thought into it.
I see it like an amicable divorce. We're still fond of each other but have grown apart. A Scottish referendum would clarify how Scots feel and if a majority want to separate, then the peoples of other counties in the union should consider that application seriously. And then they should also have a referendum and if they agree then the Scots should be free to go on alone.
My personal feeling as an Englishmen is that they should be autonomous and take whatever natural resources within their boundaries with them - I would expect no less if the shoe were on the other foot.
who will get the Falklands, and their costs and possible assets.
I'm asking as didn't most of Scotland panic back when the Argies invaded and they hadn't read the atlas
TandemJeremy - Member
Yup- an how many coastal defence vessels can one buy for 10% of the spend on the new aircraft carriers?
Depends, Who will be building them for you? Open market, quite a few. Domestic? Not many.
Yes, we got shafted on the new carriers, but that was [maybe] down to a certain ex-PM wanting them build in his constituency, and other people messing up the contracts. We could have done better. Same with the new Type 45s...
Procurement. Yes, we should improve that. Good luck with that if you do get independence.
if a majority want to separate, then the peoples of other counties in the union should consider that application seriously
Why?
What about Wales? What about NI? What about Cornwall? What about Yorkshire? What about London? Etc? All would have valid reasons to split, and London certainly would benefit. I woon't want to see it happen though.
The only vote I would support would be a UK-wide one. Cos I beleive all people of the UK should have a say in the future of the Union.
Personally, I'd scrap the England Scotalnd Wales NI bit and just call it Britain. Be simpler. Then we could have a British footy team, Rugby teams, etc. 😀 We do for cycling, so why not other sports?
We'd be a stronger nation if we weren't so divided by petty regionalistic parochialism.