Forum menu
Now to some folk that seems great. But with all that comes folk paying less attention as thy simply don't feel the need to as the car does most of it for then.
Hasn’t it occurred to you that, in not having to divert attention away from the road to operate things like lights, wipers, etc, the driver can pay more attention to what’s going on in front and behind?
Certainly I find that having a variety of simple functions automated I just don’t have to pay them much attention, so allowing me to keep my attention on what the trucks and vans are doing, like pulling out suddenly as I come alongside while indicating at exactly the same moment, giving zero warning of their intentions, or not bothering at all.
Both of which have happened to me over the last couple of days, on a number of occasions.
T_R, how many miles a day/week do you actually drive?
And on what sort of roads?
I know nothing about this
A rare level of honesty, bravo!
Company motor is very automated, most of it I like but the auto lights can be slow to change in the face of opposing traffic, or can change when approaching a building. Evefything else is tops.
10000 a year .mostly long trips on mixed roads. Home and abroad.
Often In a 7m vehicle.
No commuting, very little town as there are better ways into towno. Mostly A roads and country roads - and if I venture far enough south - motorways.
My point is the less attention people need to pay the less attention they will pay. Don't believe for one minute that the mAjority( of which as a professional driver you are not) of people are more attentive to the road because they do t need to think oh it's raining - I'll put my wipers on. Ok I'll do all the other things associated with the fact it's raining. I'll slow down my cornering,I'll increase my braking gap..... They will just carry on as was.
Just need to look at the number of people driving round on DRLs and night because their dash is lit the assume their lights are on. Which I thought was a phase but still saw 2 folk doing it last week when I appeared behind em. - I did 50 miles in driving in the car only last week.
Let me stop you right there. The speed of the HGV which is sitting on the limiter will vary?
It's late.
Too late to bother dissecting your post in all its error, so I will bring up this one point alone before bed.
If you are unaware that the speed of a limited HGV will vary then you are not equipped for this discussion.
Chat about wheel sizes instead.
deepreddave - Member@sbob - speed limiters are an entirely different proposition to GPS speed limiters. Limiting top speed of HGVs regardless of road, conditions or traffic is a blunt tool to achieve a different end.
Your argument isn't against GPS speed limiters, just poor HGV driving although them all travelling at a similar consistent top speed presumably reduces the risk of accidents too.
This is so wrong I'll comment to let you know that I will dissect your wrongness in the morning.
It's late.
Too late to bother dissecting your post in all its error
Actually I've just re-read your post.
It is so full of strawmen there is little point in replying. It's basically a troll.
How is you further driving education going?
breatheeasy - MemberI always though lorries sat nose to tail with each other to eek out a bit more mpg through drafting.
Nah mate, doesn't happen.
Ask aracer.
molgrips - MemberI disagree about driving aids making people inattentive. There's enough going on on most roads in the UK to demand attention regardless.
And yet inattentiveness is the number one cause of accidents... 💡
I’ve never see anybody reply to themselves four times in a row 😯
😆
Regarding driver aids, I definitely think they reduce what’s called “arousal” (no s****ing at the back!) in human factors. If your workload drops (assuming you’re not a driving geek), you take up the spare capacity by doing something else. That’s why the fatal Tesla “autopilot” crash happened and why category 3 autonomous vehicles are very problematic; human nature says that after a while of the car doing it’s thing autonomously, the driver will be looking at the scenery or reading a book or something, and thus be ill-equipped to take over when the car encounters a situation it can’t handle and dumps control back to the driver. Driver aids are a less extreme version. They also erode skills in the driving population, how many folk now know how to pump the brakes, double declutch, drive in snow etc since ABS, synchro and traction and stability control became ubiquitous? All good things but they have their downsides!
If your workload drops (assuming you’re not a driving geek), you take up the spare capacity by doing something else.
Yes - watching the other cars. Because you still have to look where you are going, steer and brake, which are the fundamentals of moving around in any situation for any animal. The autopilot situation is different - because the fundamental control is being handed over, so yes you can close your eyes or look at the scenery. Completely different thing to cruise control etc.
They also erode skills in the driving population, how many folk now know how to pump the brakes, double declutch, drive in snow etc since ABS, synchro and traction and stability control became ubiquitous?
How many need to know? I don't know how to ride a horse either, that's a similarly eroded skill. But no-one considers than an issue 🙂
It’s an issue when the tech can’t cope. I agree the autopilot is an extreme example of it, but under-arousal is definitely a thing, we see it all the time in aviation. It’s actually an argument against artificially low speed limits; your alertness levels drop.
They also erode skills in the driving population, how many folk now know how to pump the brakes, double declutch, drive in snow etc since ABS, synchro and traction and stability control became ubiquitous?
All skills required because cars were shit. The weak point in a car is the human.
Bently auto dip headlights / mains are rubbish. You can be driving along a nice dark country road with the mains on full and a car appraoches from a side road and stops , say 1m back from the stop line. He sees you coming as its nearly dalylight with those headlights on full, you see him as he has rolled up to a stop and is fully illuminated by your mains.
However, Bently headlamp sensor does not switch off main beam as there is no headlamp appraoching as the joining car is sitting at 90' to you. So you continue to burn out his retinas with main beam till you are past , and then he has to sit there for a good while blinking to try to remove the dancing spots from in front of his eyes and get some sort of night vision back.
Yes - watching the other cars
which is what you should do . judging by the driving going on im sure folk are on instagram or facebook rather than doing this.
My point is the less attention people need to pay the less attention they will pay.
I think this is entirely dependant on the driver, but I'm not convinced that a few automatic systems will inherently mean folk pay less example. Take auto wipers as an example; do people switch on manual wipers because they're reading the road attentively, or because they can't see through the windscreen any more?
They also erode skills in the driving population, how many folk now know how to pump the brakes, double declutch, drive in snow etc since ABS, synchro and traction and stability control became ubiquitous? All good things but they have their downsides!
Synchromesh was patented in 1922. Double decluching is hardly an "eroded skill," it's a completely unnecessary one. Most people don't know how to hand-crank an engine.
It’s actually an argument against artificially low speed limits; your alertness levels drop.
I saw this on a TV programme once about habitual speeders. They filmed a London cabbie who they made to drive to the speed limit. He was away with the fairies, not paying attention to anything and actually more dangerous than when he was I'm speeding. Not that I'm saying speeding is the solution, better driver training perhaps - there's plenty to occupy your mind when driving if you know to look for it - but it's certainly a thing.
Totally anecdotal, but driving my whistle and bell equipped company car is less tiring than my old Corsa. Consequentially, it's easier to pay more attention to what's going on around you, especially towards the end of a long journey, I feel a safer driver because of it.
Also anecdotally, on motorways if I have time I'll often set cruise to 56/57/58 mph, idea being I'll save fuel and won't have to overtake anything - I expected not to be overtaken by trucks but it does happen (or I'll notice one sneaking up on me and I'll nudge the speed up a couple of mph so they don't have to sit in the middle lane for a five minute overtake).
I'd be against an increase in the motorway limit as there seem to be a number of current drivers who don't drive safely at current limits.
I agree the autopilot is an extreme example of it, but under-arousal is definitely a thing, we see it all the time in aviation.
I'd suggest aviation is different though, because you don't have to actively steer around physical objects all the time. On most UK roads, you really do have to steer and drive all the time, otherwise you'll run off the road and crash. Not the case in a plane is it?
My wife finds it harder to drive a manual or without satnav when she's going somewhere new. Because concentrating on the road is top priority, and that edges out other things like navigating or selecting gears. Which is as it should be. Better to drive the wrong way safely than crash trying to go the right way. The road should demand ALL your attention - so the more you have to divert to operating the car, the less is available for driving, IMO.
If your attention is wandering whilst driving then surely having to do more stuff to operate the car is going to distract you all the more?
I’ve never see anybody reply to themselves four times in a row
Big hitter, innit
The car I learned to drive in had hand crank, no sychro on first and neglible anywhere else, amusing handling characteristics, windows that fell into the doors (I asked the driving tester if he wanted me to find somewhere safe to stop and put it back up, he declined), required hand signals when the indicators didn't indicate, drainage holes in the floor which dealt nicely with the leaks, a key to open it but a srcew driver would do, a petrol cap, an ice scraper in the glove box - it was ace.
My latest car has a button to turn it on, a lever to choose direction, a pedal to make it go, and a pedal to charge the battery and slow it down, electric windows, a piece of plastic to open it but a computer and some software wil do, a plug socket, a pre-heat button - it's ace.
How safe or dangerous they are to others is about the same and mostly dependent of a common component, the nut behind the steering wheel. However, the latest one does a better job of protecting the occupants from the stupidity of others.
Every single bike went down the road due to the system shutting power down when it decided the vehicle was exceeding the limit. Pretty much all in mid-corner.
Stupid idea.
Well that implementation of it was. A more sophisticated, better engineered solution is required. One that can sense a bike going around a corner for example.
Be interested to read about that - which mag was it in?
One that can sense a bike going around a corner for example.
Or one that gradually reduces power as the limit is reached, that's what my car does when I set the limiter. If I engage the limiter when travelling faster than the programmed speed it freewheels but doesn't apply any motor braking, it just flashes orange at me and sounds an audible warning.
I'd suggest aviation is different though, because you don't have to actively steer around physical objects all the time.
Valid point but remember aviation isn’t just pilots, also ATC (hurrah) and engineering. We’re talking about a property of the human animal here -propensity to get bored!
The road should demand ALL your attention - so the more you have to divert to operating the car, the less is available for driving, IMO.If your attention is wandering whilst driving then surely having to do more stuff to operate the car is going to distract you all the more?
It doesn’t always take all your attention though, especially on the motorway; if you’re at capacity all the time you’d never nav, fiddle with the stereo, have a conversation.... You’re talking about the line between under and over -arousal, distraction... human performance sure is a complicated thing! Just to be clear, I agree driver aids are a good thing in general and the nugget behind the wheel is the weakest link in the system, just saying it’s not simple!