An interesting thing that came out when my wife was having counselling to deal with with the insomnia (brought on by our younger child's inadvertent psychological torture) was that the distress she felt being awake in the night on her own was related to those same emotions she suffered as a baby/toddler when her mother left her to cry at night, as was more the norm in those days.
It's only in recent times that human babies have slept without their parents - we've had hundreds of thousands of years of co-sleeping, so it's not unreasonable that many struggle to sleep alone.
Whilst I'm on my soapbox, did everyone know that Gina Ford doesn't have any children of her own?!!
I know it works for some but the cry it out method to me, seems harsh. The way I see it is bub is calling out and if you let them cry it out then I interpret that as "well, they aint coming, they dont love me, sod it, I'll just stop and go to sleep". I'm sure there's a whole science behind it but that's how it seems to me.
Alt view.
I really really want to be asleep, I'm so tired, and i just don't know how to do it, so i'll revert to my standard MO for any time I want something.
All the 'cry it out' exponents will say you need to check first for hunger, pain, too hot, too cold, shitty arse, and so on, but if none of those fit then it's probably just too tired. Learning the skill to self settle is part of growing up. Some kids just get it, others need 'training', which does sound harsh but it's no different to training them to use a spoon, or to use the potty. The yelling is only really uncomfortable for the listener and it's only yelling because that's currently their only mode of expressing anything.
[My kids are 10 and 12 now and still get really ratty when they're too tired; they now just express it differently. I don't think 'they're too tired, let me see if I can give them some food / read them a book and see if that stops the rattiness'. I tell them to go to bed (and stop being obnoxious little shits)]
the distress she felt being awake in the night on her own was related to those same emotions she suffered as a baby/toddler
Posts crossed; I'm less supportive for abandoning a toddler, who has far more complex needs - but also far more complex ability to string you along if they sense weakness, the little ****ers.
Joyful last night.
11:30 decided to have a night poo so clean up had a drink and back to sleep.
Then 3:30 he wakes up an starts sneezing. That was a strange one, then he wakes up at 4 for a short while.
Love the little git but damn it's annoying, then he goes and smiles at you at half 6 in the morning and somehow you forget it all
Scanning through the thread I thought for a moment that someone else was using the 'Frank Sinatra' method too...
Our elder one, who's almost 4, is a big fan of Sinatra (favourite song "You Make Me Feel So Young") and we just had about a week of her not being able to get to sleep because when she closed her eyes she kept remembering the (not very) scary thing from Wallace & Gromit. She wanted to listen to stories on her CD player but she kept appearing downstairs through the evening each night until finally falling asleep at 10pm or so.
Then I suggested she have some music to listen to. "Songs For Swinging Lovers" did the trick, she was asleep just after 8! It's rather pleasant heading up the stairs hearing that album coming out of her room, feels like I'm living in a cool film or something...
pat12- do you want a copy of this to have a read of:
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I'll stick it in the post if you do.
It's quite old now but an interesting read in general to understand phases of sleep etc. even if it doesn't solve your problem. It describes numerous different sleep issues so you can identify your problems and then discusses how you can help resolve them.
I have an 11 month old who wouldn't sleep for more than 1.5 hours and it was taking its toll on me.
My wife got a "sleep consultant" which I thought was the biggest pile of shite going and a complete waste of £250.
Baby now sleeps 7pm to 7am every night with no wake ups.
Without question the best value for money I ever spent.
Pretty sure that's who we used
Edit - did not involve cry it out
No advice to give, but you asked for others' experiences.
First born slept through from six weeks - we thought "this is easy!"
Second born didn't sleep through for two years. Not sure we did much differently. Shows that they're all different.
Best of luck OP.
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We got a copy of this. Utterly useless, but makes you laugh.
Your NCT friends are liars....
Check out the wonder weeks book. If I recall correctly (now at 17 months) there is a period of regression around 9-11 months where they start to wake more.
my kid's three and a bit years old now, and I think he's slept through maybe four times in his life so far. A couple of wake-ups per night is routine. We've tried a lot of different things to get through it!
Not exactly encouraging, but you can sort of get used to it, shellshock survivor and all that. I do worry about the long-term effects it could be having on my wife, who bears the brunt of it.
hhhmmmm I've got an order in for a new human to arrive this summer. Does anyone know if they do free returns?
Haha, my first is due a week after my 38th birthday 🙂
Interesting times ahead!
I've got a 3 week old so I feel your pain. Obviously still too young to be in a routine yet so just having to man up on the lack of sleep front.
Going to work on 3 hours sleep has been emotional - little sod has been impossible to settle until 2-3am except the last 2 nights. The wife has got her settled by midnight by bathing / baby massaging / playing white noise then a last min feed before putting her in the Moses basket.
Slept through until almost 3 then last night, then from 4 until 6. Best nights sleep I've had since she was born on NY's day!
I know it works for some but the cry it out method to me, seems harsh.
I'm a far, far better father when I've had a proper night's sleep...
The thing with controlled crying is that you are not really getting them to 'cry it out', you are instead letting them learn that it is possible to sleep without boob / feed / cuddle / dummy / singing / white noise etc etc. It is just about breaking a habit.
Lack of sleep is used as a form of torture. It is easy to joke about but it is damaging to relationships and potentially dangerous.
The sleep consultant mentioned above sounds good, I've also heard good things about them but I am also aware it is an unregulated industry so I would only go down that route with a good recommendation.
As above. Routine. Is he getting enough to eat. Let then cry (tough)
Not every kid is a manipulative bastard. Some are just really insecure. You need to be able to tell the difference before you start abandoning them.
I think at that age they haven't learnt to be an arse, so there must be something wrong if they cry. We don't believe in the CIO method, but different folks......
Is she crawling yet/getting exercise? Does she get enough to eat? Is she cold? Can she roll over? Does she do so when she sleeps?
Ours never slept for more than 2 hours until he was 13 months old.
It was a combination of the above.
Best of luck.
That's all I have to offer the OP.
Our 5 year old goes through unless his eczema is playing up. However the going through didn't happen until about age 4 though, prior to which he was awful at going to bed and awful at going through. Our second one has just started doing regular full nights aged 2 and prior to that generally woke once for a feed/change/still-sleepy-quick-back-to-sleep.
We're still woken up about 1 in 3 nights.
I hate the lack of sleep thing, it does my swede.
So glad that others have toddlers / older babies that don't sleep through. Broken sleep is the worst part of it. Like others have said make time for you and your partner. If anybody offers help, take it and then go to sleep.
4 week old baby here. Wish I hadn't read this thread 🙁
5 month old twins, used the controlled crying method about 7 weeks ago and now they're straight off at 7pm, they do still wake at about 2 but are then back off again till 7am.
Went to bed at 2200 last night.
Three year old shouting at midnight.
Six year old awake and shouting at 0445.
[b]@njee20[/b] - It's not always this bad, don't be disheartened; my five year old has been sleeping through most (not all, but [i]most[/i]) nights since he was six weeks.
I can [i]almost[/i] look at this thread and reminisce. Ours is 15 months and until a month ago was up several times a night. Now he either wakes up once at around 3am and goes back to sleep after a bottle until 6.30 ish, or (far worse) sleeps from bedtime at 19.30 until around 5.00. Manageable. This all goes to pot if he has any sort of upset though - cough, temperature, needs a poo, too hot, teething etc which is basically all the time 🙄
My sage advice would be:
1) it WILL get better, and you'll be looking back wondering what the fuss was about.
2) make time for each other. Sleep deprivation is horrible and will turn you (and your wife) into a crabby asshole. Make sure you find the time to be nice to your other half.
3) if you get a chance to have a lie in, grasp it with both hands! And return the favour some time.
It does get better. My 5 year old has been sleeping from 19:00-07:00 for about 4 years now.
@dooosuk Thanks very kind offer! I do have that book however, its in a pile with a few by Gina Ford, a couple of gentle sleep ones, some by self proclaimed baby whisperers and a couple of weird looking American ones. All marked must read when have spare moment (nine months and still waiting!)
Thanks for everyone's comments this thread has made me feel better, with out actually making me feel better 🙂
A friend of ours had a rule "What ever gets said in the night is forgotten in the morning" seems appropriate.
She is just trying to crawl at the moment and eating more substantial amounts of solids, hoping when either of those get established things may change.
She did sleep 8 till 12 solid last night but previous nights this week was up every 30 mins.
I did under underestimate how hard it would be (you can see why sleep deprivation is a form of torture). However i've never regretted it for a single second.
For anyone expecting... a) you might get a perfect sleeper, b) even if you don't the good times far outweigh the bad ones.
the sleep consultants look interesting, i think i will ride it out unless it really starts to impact my job/relationship then have to try a different tack.
Thanks Again
@dooosuk Thanks very kind offer! I do have that book however, its in a pile with a few by Gina Ford, a couple of gentle sleep ones, some by self proclaimed baby whisperers and a couple of weird looking American ones. All marked must read when have spare moment (nine months and still waiting!)Thanks for everyone's comments this thread has made me feel better, with out actually making me feel better
A friend of ours had a rule "What ever gets said in the night is forgotten in the morning" seems appropriate.
She is just trying to crawl at the moment and eating more substantial amounts of solids, hoping when either of those get established things may change.
She did sleep 8 till 12 solid last night but previous nights this week was up every 30 mins.
I did under underestimate how hard it would be (you can see why sleep deprivation is a form of torture). However i've never regretted it for a single second.
For anyone expecting... a) you might get a perfect sleeper, b) even if you don't the good times far outweigh the bad ones.
the sleep consultants look interesting, i think i will ride it out unless it really starts to impact my job/relationship then have to try a different tack.
Thanks Again
That's a lovely post if I may say so. Our first since 6/8wks old has slept through the night (is 14 mo), waking more regularly only when ill. Reading this thread over the last few days however, has put the fear into me about number 2 being a 'nightmare' by comparison haha. Don't know why i'm doing that to myself but the above post brought me back some sense and perspective! The good definitly outweighs the bad, so i echo the above comments to those new dads out there!
The day times definitely outweigh the night time 🙂
Our two year old co-slept with us up until a couple of weeks ago. He was breast fed till 20 months and we only tried a bottle once and he rejected it immediately.
We tried the controlled crying thing twice and it broke our hearts, and we swore never to do it after the second try. It was horrendous for all of us, especially him.
The broken sleep has been difficult but manageable. Since weaning him off the boob completely he's stopped waking up for it in the night and he only wakes now if he's unwell, random poo, or is too hot.
It get better, everyone will have a technique that workes/worked for their child and no two children are the same. Do what feels instinctive and natural for you.
We met a family (parents both doctors) with a baby girl a little younger than our boy. While chatting about our kids I said he co-slept with us etc etc and their faces just lit up when they realised it wasn't so crazy after all...
They'd felt like they were seriously bad parents for doing it. The pressure to get your baby into its own bed and to sleep through the night is mental.
Totally. We gave up listening to all the tales of wonderful sleepers etc and equally did not take any joy when ours was good.
Do what you need to do, don;t be afraid to try crying etc. , we got a sleep person as well via Plunket (we were in NZ) and she sorted us out but we were broken by then. Teething starts it all up again but literally the day ours got her last tooth she went to bed for 12 hours and continues to do so - occasional nighttime invasions but brief and usually to answer a complicated question !
So glad that others have toddlers / older babies that don't sleep through.
My youngest didn't sleep through until she was 9. Quite often I'd be woken in the middle of the night to a high pitched, blood curdling scream. We think she used to have night terrors, as when she was a baby, she was fine, but from around 2 onwards was awake 2 or 3 times a night.
We did controlled crying with my eldest, and he has been fine ever since he was a baby. Broke my heart at the time though.
EDIT: - crazy thing is, now the kids sleep ok, we have a dog who gets up at 6.30 every morning, including the weekends