[Closed] So is a vote for the Greens a wasted vote?

ChubbyBlokeInLycra - Member

Hey Chubby (should that simply be Fat or lard?)

Hilarious. I can see why you identify so closely with the UK Idiot Party

Slight hijack to address Chubby here ...

Tell you a real story that happened many years ago when I was in Leeds.

You see when I was in Leeds sharing a house with a French, Finnish couples and a hippie single parent landlord with a son, the neighbour's son usually come to play with the landlord son. We, the foreigners, thought this little boy is a bit fat or plump but we decided that he would not like us calling him fat or plump boy so instead all of us decided to call him Chubby ... guess what ... we thought we were being polite until my landlord and son explained that the boy did not wish to be address as Chubby (we all laughed including the landlord and son) We could not comprehend the reason because he was indeed fat, plump or in a better phrase Chubby. We then stopped calling him Chubby and instead, my other flatmates, started calling him fatboy (as in the Harley bike) but guess what ... he got upset too. In the end, we simply thought he was no fun so started calling him his name but that was no longer endearing ... he became boring after that.

The moral of story is that it brings back good memory of the word Chubby ... very funny too. 😀

chewkw, having just read a transcript of a radio interview with the local UKIP candidate in Newcastle, Daniel Thompson, I know where I [i]won't[/i] be wasting my vote.

Here are some highlights, it reads like a Daily Mail comments section:

"There are an awful lot of cycle routes in the North East, and having one on John Dobson Street, crack bang in the city centre, stopping people having access there, and the one running up and down Gosforth High Street's not a very good idea because there's alternative cycle routes either side."

"The reason the cycle funding has come to the North East is, first of all Newcastle City Council has given out cycling figures that are a bit misleading and they're not sure themselves how many cyclists actually use the area, but...part of the Liberal Democrat deal with the coalition was that David Cameron gives them £115 million to put into cycle funds and that's the reason Nick Clegg is sat there as deputy prime minister because he got this massively good deal for the cyclists. Subsequently there's been money allocated to different cities, Newcastle has been allocated 10.5 million, and it's just a shame that the wasn't money allocated to maybe disabled people, getting more people onto motorised wheelchairs if they need them."

"Cycling's great, but there's an over-facilitation for cycling in the North East of England. Disabled people have worked hard all their lives, but you see the cyclist lobby, the cyclist is using the road, he's not paying any insurance, he's not paying...he's not got a registration number, and they're getting a massive amount of money of central government."

"I think we have to try to encourage the cyclists not to use the pavements because I don't think you can have one rule where they're using the roadspace and another rule where they're using the pavements...we've got enough people on the pavements without the cyclists using it, but obviously in the view of Newcastle City Council the cyclist can go anywhere he wants; on the pavement, in the middle of the road, along the side of the road, across the town moor."

"You used to have to have a bell on your cycle, a lot of these people don't even have bells on their cycle any more. Now a lot of them have cameras on their hats...talk about paranoia...in case you hit them. Put it this way, I've never hit one. I think a lot of the accidents are basically because of the cyclists, maybe because they've got their earphones in, or even on their mobile phones. I've seen cyclists actually texting.The police won't do it because it's not a target. The motorist is a target, but the cyclists: they've got no control over it."

"[Why have they got a ban on mobility scooters on the Metro?] Probably because they've got a ban on cyclists and they probably think it'll be favouritising [sic] disabled people against the cyclists."

Vote green if you take the cynical view that your vote can archive nothing then you have registered your disapproval at the two choices one outcome politics of the majority parties, if you take the optimistic view then your vote will go some way to making the country better.

chewkw - Member
ChubbyBlokeInLycra - Member
Hey Chubby (should that simply be Fat or lard?)

Hilarious. I can see why you identify so closely with the UK Idiot Party
Slight hijack to address Chubby here ...

Tell you a real story that happened many years ago when I was in Leeds.

You see when I was in Leeds sharing a house with a French, Finnish couples and a hippie single parent landlord with a son, the neighbour's son usually come to play with the landlord son. We, the foreigners, thought this little boy is a bit fat or plump but we decided that he would not like us calling him fat or plump boy so instead all of us decided to call him Chubby ... guess what ... we thought we were being polite until my landlord and son explained that the boy did not wish to be address as Chubby (we all laughed including the landlord and son) We could not comprehend the reason because he was indeed fat, plump or in a better phrase Chubby. We then stopped calling him Chubby and instead, my other flatmates, started calling him fatboy (as in the Harley bike) but guess what ... he got upset too. In the end, we simply thought he was no fun so started calling him his name but that was no longer endearing ... he became boring after that.

The moral of story is that it brings back good memory of the word Chubby ... very funny too.

And what exactly is wrong with calling him his name rather than just an insult?

GrahamS - Member

chewk, having just read a transcript of a radio interview with the local UKIP candidate in Newcastle, Daniel Thompson, I know where I won't be wasting my vote.

Here are some highlights, it reads like a Daily Mail comments section:

You might think the bloke is irrational but you will very surprised that some of my friends with PhDs, rationale, know how to argue academic type hate cyclists so much I thought they have anger related issues when they see a cyclist whilst driving ... honest!

Cycle lane or not I am used to driving in the far east with scooters all over the place where as a driver I had to look out for them. I am chilled but these so called civilised friends of mine just went ape shite I kid you not.

To be honest some of the UKIP candidates do talk shite but then all politicians tend to do that except some are better rehearsed by their PR machine.

I personally will not ride on the street unless there are special lanes like those in Scandinavian countries.

padkinson - Member

And what exactly is wrong with calling him his name rather than just an insult?

It was not an insult when we called the boy chubby because it was an endearing term we showed. Sometimes we just don't call people by their names and we like to give them nicknames.

In other part of the world if you are fat you know you are fat and sometime people just state the obvious as an endearing term. They would call you fat boy or fat girl in front of everyone. They do and the person being called fat does not even bat an eye about that. No insult was intended and everyone knows that. The obvious is just obvious. Oh ya if you intend to address your elders by name you get a good smacking for being disrespectful. 😀

To be honest some of the UKIP candidates do talk s

But the spirit of what he says was also in the UKIP official manifesto (back when they had one) so the "lone nutter" defence doesn't wash.

I personally will not ride on the street unless there are special lanes like those in Scandinavian countries.

That guy runs STURR, "Stop The Unneccesary Red Route" which is a campaign specifically against installing a special traffic-free cycle lane. Oh and they claim to be pro-cycling!

I am considering a Green vote as I am probably a bit more left leaning and I just don't believe any of the major party's more centre-right, popularist speil or policies reflect what I want for the UK.

I'm not so naive as to believe the support is there for the Greens to sweep to victory, but I could see a small Green contingent perhaps forming part of a new coalition, and possibly helping to sway a Labour or even Conservative led coalition a bit away from the nastier excesses of the Right, fundamentally the opposite of what the Kippers are hoping for....

Who Knows? stranger things have happened.

People perhaps forget perhaps that voting in an election isn't about backing the winner, it's about registering your support for the candidate / party which most closely matches your views and aspirations for the country. The only "wasted" vote would be one where you don't vote for what you believe in IMO.

It was not an insult when we called the boy chubby because it was an endearing term we showed. Sometimes we just don't call people by their names and we like to give them nicknames.

Can we start calling you "Enoch" just as a [i]term of endearment[/i]...

GrahamS - Member
But the spirit of what he says was also in the UKIP official manifesto (back when they had one) so the "lone nutter" defence doesn't wash.

Not defending him at all. For me personally having cycle lane or not is a non-issue in the grant scheme of things.

That guy runs STURR, "Stop The Unneccesary Red Route" which is a campaign specifically against installing a special traffic-free cycle lane. Oh and they claim to be pro-cycling!

I don't know who they are but I know it's scary to ride on the road ...

cookeaa - Member

It was not an insult when we called the boy chubby because it was an endearing term we showed. Sometimes we just don't call people by their names and we like to give them nicknames.

Can we start calling you "Enoch" just as a term of endearment...

If you feel like it then go ahead if that is an endearment towards another person.

Bear in mind we had no ill feeling or hate towards the boy nor were we picking on him.

😮

It was not an insult when we called the boy chubby because it was an endearing term we showed. Sometimes we just don't call people by their names and we like to give them nicknames.
Can we start calling you "Enoch" just as a term of endearment...

I'd prefer to call him something more along the lines of c**t

[url= http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_of_Blood_speech ]It's not far off[/url] 😉

padkinson - Member
I'd prefer to call him something more along the lines of c**t

cookeaa - Member

It's not far off

😆 We used to address or to greet all our friends as c**t in their face every time we meet. (also all the known swear words we could master ... I kid you not. We have terms that are so vulgar even we laughed when we used them.)

Put it this way we used to address all our friends with all known rude words in the world in the context of endearment.

However, you used it in the context of "conflict", "challenge" or retaliation ... that's the different. Yours is not of endearment.

I think there is a culture clash here ... 😆

Anyway, back to OP on voting Green or not.

Tch.....

No it is honestly and totally endearing in intent.. Really.

Just like calling a fat lad "chubby" when he doesn't like it.

Nice story otherwise, can't see the relevance to the topic, but it's another little anecdote that adds a bit more depth to your STW, virtual personal... Guess you had to be there.

And yes back to topic.

Decided yet OP?

cookeaa - Member

No it is honestly and totally endearing in intent.. Really.

Just like calling a fat lad "chubby" when he doesn't like it.

Nice story otherwise, can't see the relevance to the topic, but it's another little anecdote that adds a bit more depth to your STW, virtual personal... Guess you had to be there.

Oh c'mon! C'mon! You lot are getting too serious chill man, chill ...

The moral of the story is a small thing like being called names is not the end of the world. I am not trying to pretend who I am not coz that's simply hard work.

🙄

The moral of the story is actually don't tell people what they should and shouldn't like.

Just keeping it really? All power to you then brother...

Back on topic, if you think the roads are too dangerous to cycle on,
[url= https://www.greenparty.org.uk/policies-2010/transport-2010/transport-detail.html ]Why not vote green?[/url] rather than support the [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/10846025/Cyclists-dont-vote-for-an-anti-cycling-party.html ]"anti-cycling party"[/url]..

Hnn. All the media I heard yesterday were saying minor parties could have a big influence in lokely event its a close call. Greens for me. Don't like all their policies but at least they believe in something other than the latest opinion poll.

I think the outcome of this election will be a Labour/SNP deal to form the Government.

Locally it'll be Conservative all round with a hint of UKIP getting the thick **** vote.

I'm in it for the long term and will be voting Green.

[quote=cookeaa ]Back on topic, if you think the roads are too dangerous to cycle on,
Why not vote green? rather than support the "anti-cycling party"..

You'll find plenty on here who think cyclists get in their way and shouldn't be on the roads.

Am I the only one to think that UKIP is the perfect party for chewkw to vote for having read his little anecdote?

[quote=sweepy ]Epicsteve, when I vote Green it wont be a protest vote, I want them to sweep to power in a landslide victory and change everything

On the contrary, if I thought that was likely there's no way I'd consider voting for them 😉

is a vote for the Greens a wasted vote?

of course not.

i'll be voting green because i want to show that there are voters (hopefully millions of us) who will vote for social and environmental policies.

if enough of us turn out in my constituency, then maybe we can help the Green Candidate retain their deposit.

i reckon those reasons are as good as any others.

if I thought that was likely there's no way I'd consider voting for them

I would vote for them if the vote counted

Unfortunately it may let a tory in here as its one less for labour

In FPTP do the least harm rather than vote how you wish 😥

Its a poor system IMHO

+1 ahwiles

A vote for what/who you believe in within the current system is not a wasted vote. I'll be voting Green. I'd really like to see what a Green/SNP/Plaid Cymru coalition could do.

If you want a Tory government vote for anyone but Labour. If you don't want a Tory government then vote Labour.

On a side note I haven't been impressed by Caroline Lucas at all. She isn't even a vegetarian so much for being green.

If you want a Tory government vote for anyone but Labour. If you don't want a Tory government then vote Labour.

If you want a Tory government vote for anyone but Labour. If you don't want a Tory government then vote Labour.

No. Vote for the party that most closely aligns with your beliefs and values. I'm voting Green, but if the SNP ever form an English branch, I could be tempted.

[quote=fr0sty125 ]If you want a Tory government vote for anyone but Labour. If you don't want a Tory government then vote Labour.

Interesting - so if you live in Solihull you'd suggest voting Labour in order to prevent a Tory government? 😯

I have to admit I do find that seat (and other similar ones) interesting in the context of Lib Dem supporters being disaffected with their party because they got into bed with the Tories and choosing to vote Labour instead. Unintended consequences...

Vote for the party that most closely aligns with your beliefs and values

Its naive to not vote tactically under our current system

What do people think about changing the current voting system then to a form of PR? I was gutted when changing to PR was quashed last time round.
Parties such as the Greens would do far better and you would have far less 'wasted' votes.

[quote=mrwhyte ]What do people think about changing the current voting system then to a form of PR?

Turkeys tend to avoid voting for Xmas

Obviously not aimed at the politicians who may frequent the forum 😀

But would more people on here vote for who they truly believe in if the current FPTP was reformed?

That's one of the Greens' policies, isn't it? Reform of the current voting system and Parliament.

Yep, greens in favour of PR and reform of HoLs from what I can remember.

Its naive to [s]not[/s] vote tactically under our current system

What percentage of posters in this thread are going to vote Green then? 40%? 50%? Out of 40-odd people polled, 20-ish said they'd vote Green. That's a pretty good majority if you take the lesser parties (tories, labour, lib dems) into account 😀

what if your belief and value is anyone but the Tories?

Its naive to not vote tactically under our current system

You must hold a lot of contradictory beliefs if that's really true.

The only way to bring about long-term change is to vote for who you believe in. Just because your preference doesn't get elected doesn't mean your vote is wasted.

The only way to bring about long-term change is to vote for who you believe in. Just because your preference doesn't get elected doesn't mean your vote is wasted.

So not having any representation from your vote is a success then and not a waste?

I'd rather lack representation than endorse a cause I disagree with. To my mind your argument only holds if you view there to be no power in votes for anyone other than the winner - in which case the majority of people in the country waste their votes. I'd disagree with that, whilst there's no electoral power, they help define the political landscape in which the major parties operate.

So not having any representation from your vote is a success then and not a waste?
I get your argument and it is both noble and naive. For example in some areas a tory voting UKIP may result in a Labour MP. The result of your choice may be the choice you would least like to happen. I dont think recognising this fact and voting accordingly makes me hold contradictory views. You will need to explain why you think this rather than just state it and ignore this argument.
Its a perfectly plausible scenario and its worth considering when voting.

If you honestly believe that a tactical vote in your constituency is going to make any difference to the outcome, then you place rather too much faith in the power of your vote. I also find it rather ironic that we complain about politicians' cynicism...

Undecided voter here. I did the voteforpolicies survey and it gave me an exact 3 way split between Labour, Greens and Lib Dem.... which wasn't entirely useful as far as choosing a candidate is concerned, but I guess useful in showing the significant overlap that now exists in a lot of policies on the part of the parties concerned... that must, in part, be to do with the Green's getting more votes and thus influencing policies in the political mainstream.

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

If you honestly believe that a tactical vote in your constituency is going to make any difference to the outcome, then you place rather too much faith in the power of your vote

I have less faith than you do in my vote. I dont think it has or will change the political landscape like you think yours has. [EDIT:You have a point about what your voting behaviour has achieved and that reads as overly harsh ]

I am not sure why you think this is cynical. Could you explain your barbs rather than just deliver them?

If it was PR I would vote Green

My argument is that voting for a potential winner will have more difference than voting for a guaranteed loser

And I think you're wrong. The only way to bring about the change you want is to vote for it - and I don't think you're arguing that the change you want is "anyone but tory"?

I am not sure why you think this is cynical. Could you explain your barbs rather than just deliver them?

My enemy's enemy may still be your enemy. If not now, then probably in the future. Look what happened to the US-backed Mujahadeen in 80's Afghanistan.