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Nothing there insoluble is there?
Only if you can stop hydrogen being a diffuse gas with a poor energy density, and want to pony up for an extravagantly expensive and carbon intensive distribution system.
you seem to be peddling the message we're all doomed and have to go back to pulling hand carts in the street, theres nothing to be done....
No, but there's no viable solution that doesn't focus on massive demand reduction.
1. Inefficient, but easy to do from solar etc giving essentially free/clean energy to do it
It's not an issue if you have lots of low-carbon electricity and don't know what to do with it. That is not the case here, and never will be.
3. So you only the similar range as batteries, but can fill up again in a few minutes, non-issue
The big difference is that batteries can be charged utilising our existing infrastructure, at home or in car parks for example. And well-to-wheel efficiency is worse. And fuel cells wear out quicker than electric motors.
4&5 - so storage in infrastructure is required, it was managed by the oil industry, I see no reason it can't be put in place for a sustainable green alternative.
It can be done, sure. The question is why would we want to? Expensive, lossy, carbon intensive, and for questionable benefit.
Ransos, you seem to have missed the fact that 1-4 have been solved and 5 is work in progress.
We've altered the fundamental chemical properties of hydrogen? Wow!
As for efficiency, using excess renewable capacity is highly efficient.
Absolutely! We could, for example, design cars that are capable of storing and providing it as needed, linked to our existing infrastructure. Any ideas?
carbon intensive
Wrong again. I think you underestimate the level of understanding of environmental and scientific matters by the majority of forum users. Feel free to link a reliable source to justify this claim.
Wrong again. I think you underestimate the level of understanding of environmental and scientific matters by the majority of forum users. Feel free to link a reliable source to justify this claim.
I see. So you claim that we can implement a new national storage and distribution infrastructure, and make it low carbon. I look forward to your proposal.
What we need now really is a well researched study on the environmental impacts of battery production before we go into full scale replace diesel/petrol with EV's approach...
would be really good to find a comparison of hydrogen to battery environmental impacts as I am sure that hydrogen fuel cells aren't going to be totally free of environmental impact.
[url= https://www.azocleantech.com/news.aspx?newsID=24238 ]They're also developing new, much cheaper, catalysts for hydrogen extraction.[/url]
Only if you can stop hydrogen being a diffuse gas with a poor energy density, and want to pony up for an extravagantly expensive and carbon intensive distribution system.
Genuine question - if we just had a gas pipe distribution system made of plastic, like the current gas network - what would happen? How much pressure loss per km of pipe?
Edukator - Ransos is right in that these are issues with a hydrogen economy especially for cars without solutions yet. all bar the inefficiency are potentially soluble however and indeed have been done on a small scale.
Hydrogen is a slippery little devil and IIRC just leaks out of steel vessels. A supply and distribution system like natural gas or petrol is pretty much pie in the sky. Hydrogen piped to your house or petrol station just is too technically difficult right now
I don't think Hydrogen could be used as a replacement for IC engined cars used as ours are now. I see its main use in smoothing renewables supply and for vehicles where batteries won't work for practical reasons
We need a new paradigm for personal transport. Thats the thing
Step 1. set quotas for the production of fossil fuel terrestrial vehicles as of today. Impose a 10% reduction every year with production banned completely at the end of 10 years. Give tax breaks to renewable electricity providers and hydrogen produces, set a 0% tax level on hydrogen and increase tax on fossil fuels by 10% a year. Market forces will do the rest. Within ten years fossil fuel cars would be in a minority.
Wrong again. I think you underestimate the level of understanding of environmental and scientific matters by the majority of forum users. Feel free to link a reliable source to justify this claim.I see. So you claim that we can implement a new national storage and distribution infrastructure, and make it low carbon. I look forward to your proposal.
After all the set up etc won't the distribution be hydrogen based?
molgrips - MemberGenuine question - if we just had a gas pipe distribution system made of plastic, like the current gas network - what would happen? How much pressure loss per km of pipe?
I don't think you would get anything oput of the end of the pipe. IIRC ( and i am sure Ransos will correct me 😉 ) Hydrogen just ignores standard plastic pipe as if its not there
Which is why existing hydrogen pipelines use steel.
Edukator - hydrogen just passes thru ordinary steel as well IIRC. Needs some clever metalurgy to hold it in. Its a slippery little fellow the H2 molecule
TJ, The materials for storing and transporting hydrogen exist, they have been around for years, are currently used in networks covering regions as big as the densely populated parts of the UK. It's a non problem.
Hydrogen tanks for house exist, hydrogen tanks for cars exist, hydrogen tanks for service stations exist, hydrogen tanks for chemical plants exist. Production simply needs to be increased so we need to stimualate demand and supply will follow.
Yes but its an impossibly huge project to use hydrogen in the same way that petrol and natural gas is. Its not cheap steel or plastic pipelines. Its tricky stuff to store and transport.
Economics will decide whether cars will use electricity and hydrogen is used as an industrial scale fuel and grid buffer.
Battery cars have taken the lead due to the simplicity of using them now. Which will be long term choice remains to be seen. I suspect both depending on use. I hope I live long enough to see it.