Forum search & shortcuts

So, I have this fri...
 

[Closed] So, I have this friend who put unleaded in his diesel van...

 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

So if I go down the 'keep topping up' route, all should be good?

Is it worth sticking any additives in to make up for the anti-lubricant properties of the unleaded?

edit - or, indeed topping up with 'Super' diesel?


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 1:56 pm
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

Hmm.. additives.. not sure.. you could try putting some engine oil in it, see what happens. Or half-fill it with vegetable oil 🙂

If it were my car I'd chance it, unless I was really worried and had the means to drain a tank and refil with diesel. How far has it been driven?


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 2:04 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

£150! Blimey. I knew someone who did this the other way round, putting diesel in a petrol. [s]I[/s] He had to call a mechanic after [s]my[/s] his car lost all power and pumped out shed loads of black somke and then stuttered to halt. Mechanic opened up engine by the side of the road and started taking gob-fulls of petrol and spitting them through the injectors and filters, pumped some clean petrol through the system, catching the contaminated fuel in a handy ice-cream tub and selling it on to a passer by... Cost [s]me[/s] him £10. But then again it was in Tanzania...


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 2:06 pm
Posts: 3384
Free Member
 

If it's not common rail just keep adding the diesel to the stuff already in the tank.

I used to add 10% petrol to my non-common rail lump to get it through the MOT and mine didn't have a tough as old boots bosch pump.

Would be a bit smokey/weak as it was rallyed all over the show but the next tank of diesel and the car was loads cleaner and smoother.

If it's a common rail get one of those mobile firms out to remove it and fill with fresh diesel and keep your fingers crossed.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 2:07 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

[i]How far has it been driven? [/i]

35 miles, A-road, motorway and bit of stop/start traffic, ran fine. It'll have used about 5 litres, which is what was in the tank before I filled up, so I'm not actually sure if it was sucking through the diesel/unleaded cocktail or not?


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 2:36 pm
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

It'll have been well mixed already. Diesels have a low pressure pump circuit that sucks up loads of diesel from the tank to the high pressure pump, then that squirts in a finely metered amount - the remainder goes round a loop back into the tank. This tends to mix the fuel nicely, as do corners and whatnot.

It'll probably be fine...


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 2:46 pm
Posts: 7626
Full Member
 

FWIW, it's a 1.9 turbo diesel T5.

PD engine?

Should be fine, you could probably run them on GT85


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 3:07 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

[i]PD engine?[/i]

Yep, PD.

What's this about sticking some engine oil in? How much?


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 3:13 pm
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

That was a joke!

It might help lubricate the fuel system a little, but I think the effects will be much less well known than putting petrol in the diesel.

Read the handbook - in my old car it recommended petrol in the diesel in winter, and gave you acceptable ratios.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 3:26 pm
Posts: 7097
Free Member
 

PD engine?

Should be fine, you could probably run them on GT85

at current prices, that's only a bit more expensive than diesel


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 3:29 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

FWIW your insurance generally covers you for such mishaps.
...but only if you've paid the optional bell-end premium.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 3:29 pm
 mboy
Posts: 12651
Free Member
 

PD engines are pretty robust, but... They are expensive to fix if they go wrong.

I've known a number of people get away with a 10:1 diesel:petrol ratio without a problem, but sounds like you've got more like a 3:1 ratio.

I know yours isn't a new Common Rail engine, but... Those PD's still run at very high pressures. A 3:1 mix is too much petrol by some margin I'd say.

I'd chalk this one up to experience. Get it to a garage, get it drained and flushed, and refill with diesel. The cost of getting this done, and the feeling of shame involved, will be FAR more palatable than the cost of fixing anything else if it does go tits up!


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 3:57 pm
 mboy
Posts: 12651
Free Member
 

Read the handbook - in my old car it recommended petrol in the diesel in winter, and gave you acceptable ratios.

How old was the car?

To be fair, this used to be not only accepted, but recommended. When Diesel engines had a specific output of much less than 50bhp per litre, and would readily run on anything. My old (very first Direct Injection) Mk3 Golf 1.9TDi had 90bhp and would happily run on almost neat veg oil (thinned a little with some petrol and some diesel added) without problem in the summer.

Diesel technology has changed significantly (even by 2004 when the OP's van was built), as has diesel fuel technology. These days you no longer need to put petrol in the tank in the winter cos they've improved the fuel significantly so it is still thin enough in winter without adding petrol (a thinner), and modern diesel engines really don't like having any petrol in them at all!


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

My car was a 1994 - that's why I suggested the OP check the manual.

Those PD's still run at very high pressures

It's not the pressure that's the issue, it's how the pump works. A PD injector is just a plunger, it's simpler than a CR injection pump afaik. The high pressure pump is what we're worried about here - diesel thinned with petrol might give less lubrication, and the pumps are designed to be lubricated by the fuel.

However it's still probably pretty oily, and you don't have a high pressure pump as such, so my guess is you'll be ok. PD was pretty old tech by 2004.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 4:12 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

I'm going to risk it.

To be honest, I’m going to have used about 10 litres by the time I get home anyway, and I’ll fill up then. I’ll do the same tomorrow. And I’m back in Brizzle on Saturday for the bike jumble so I’ll do the same again then so, assuming it’s not blown up by then, it’ll have been pretty well diluted by the weekend and I'll keep filling it daily for a week or so.

If I die you can fight over my bikes.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 4:33 pm
Posts: 1293
Full Member
Posts: 33220
Full Member
 

"My friend" did this with about 5 litres of unleaded - just kept brimming it with diesel for a few weeks to keep diluting it and no problems since.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 9:59 pm
Posts: 659
Free Member
 

Seriously - put a litre of 2 stroke oil in the tank ASAP

This will help with any stress to the pumps and injectors , you can then cary on with the top up regime.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 10:31 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Well...

I drove home, it drove fine, so that's 70 miles on the diesel/unleaded cocktail.

I stuck another 7 litres of diesel in when I got home. It chuntered a bit when I started it again at the petrol station, but, other than that, no probs.

So, fingers still crossed 😕


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 10:33 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Ah, I read about 2-stroke. Worth doing then?


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 10:33 pm
Posts: 4954
Free Member
 

syphon what is in the tank out then refill with diesel.
Replace fuel filter then you will only have a minimal amount of petrol in the mixed fuel that is in your fuel lines, you can even bleed that out if you want.


 
Posted : 28/02/2013 10:39 pm
Posts: 4998
Full Member
 

I put a tenners worth of unleaded in my t4 3 yrs ago by accident. Brimmed the tank and then kept it full with regular top ups. No ill effects.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 7:27 am
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Well...

I drove it the 35 miles to work after brimming it - no issues
Drove it the 35 miles back - no issues
Brimmed with another 7 litres of diesel when I got home - it grumbled/struggled a bit starting again from hot at the garage, but once going was fine.
Drove it ten miles this morning to clear about a litre from the tank and stuck a litre of 2-stroke in - again, grumbled starting again from hot
Remaining 25 miles to work - no issues

It's now sitting in the work car park with the filler cap off, hoping that some of the unleaded will evaporate off. Shame it's a bloody freezing day...

I'll fill it again with another 7 or so litres after the 35 mile drive home tonight (or maybe in the morning, then I don't have to start it from hot at the garage). Same again tomorrow as I'm doing another 70 mile run, and then same through the next week.

Fingers crossed, but I think the bullet has been dodged 😕


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 10:18 am
Posts: 7869
Free Member
 


Fingers crossed, but I think the bullet has been dodged

Errm, your friend, shirley? 🙂

Well done, good result.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 10:44 am
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Ahem. Yes, yes, of course, my friend did all those things 🙂


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 10:46 am
Posts: 7850
Full Member
 

I'd pop out and put the cap back on as that'll have no effect. Once mixed, and it is by now, the Van der Waal's forces (or London dispersion forces if you prefer) will make it nigh on impossible for the petrol fraction to just evaporate off.

Pressure might be an issue as the petrol would auto-ignite at lower pressure.

But then I would think IHN ('s mate) has demonstrated that there have been no short term effects.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 10:54 am
 br
Posts: 18125
Free Member
 

I did this to my wife's car.

We had it drained, and I kept the fuel and used it in my petrol car.

Both ran fine afterwards.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:02 am
Posts: 14292
Free Member
 

Does the harder starting not mean that something is up?


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:03 am
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Nah, I don't think so. It's only when it's hot, and I think it's because the mixture is 'thinner' as the unleaded evaporates off. From cold it starts fine.

From reading round it's a common thing with others who've done the same as my friend.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:07 am
Posts: 41877
Free Member
 

Then PD was invented by Bosch and used by VW -

I thought FIAT invented it, and sold it to the Germans when they ran out of money (again).

Bit like the current Iralian economy!


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:23 am
Posts: 2042
Free Member
 

Petrol is less dense than diesel so it will sit on top of the diesel in the fuel tank. If you leave your filler cap off the petrol will evapourate eventually.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:41 am
Posts: 251
Full Member
 

[i] If you leave your filler cap off the petrol will evapourate eventually.[/i]

My fuel tank filler tube has a non-return valve in it.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:43 am
Posts: 2042
Free Member
 

My fuel tank filler tube has a non-return valve in it.

Fuel vapour wont close the non return value


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:50 am
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

and stuck a litre of 2-stroke in

That's not a bad idea, could maybe have done it straight away.

I bet you got some funny looks doing it though 🙂


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 11:57 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

NRAPs but doesn't your breakdown cover the draining of tanks? If you have that is...


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:02 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

[i]I bet you got some funny looks doing it though [/i]

My friend parked away from the garage kiosk and was hidden from view by his van 😉

From the many and varied purchases my friend has made over the past couple of days though, the chap in the garage defintely suspects something's up 🙂

EDIT [i]doesn't your breakdown cover the draining of tanks? [/i]

Nope, checked that. They'd have recovered me to a garage, that's it.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:05 pm
Posts: 36
Free Member
 

The AA told [s]me[/s] my friend his cover didnt extend to draining mis-fulled tanks. They wanted £150 to get their specialist team out to do it. Thieving bastards. But they did have to relay [s]me[/s] him home for free under [s]my [/s]policy so that's what [s]we [/s] he did....


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:23 pm
Posts: 13291
Free Member
 

not read everything, but i've made the mistake of filling my old Seat (VW engine) diesel with a full tank of super-duper expensive petrol. i only realised when i looked at the reciept and thought "that seems expensive".

never started the car and i got it towed to a mechanic friend and he drained the petrol off and refilled it with diesel. cost me 60 quid.

didn't need a tank clean as it was an old skool diesel.

the newer common-rail diesel engines don't (and won't - as i understand it) like any petrol in them.

get it drained and don't start the engine.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:31 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

not read everything....
get it drained and don't start the engine.

he's way past that point 🙂


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:48 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

Yeah, keep up 🙂


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:49 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Like I said in post number 2 or something - your car insurance covers you/your friend/the old pope/me for such cock-ups. No effect on no-claims etc. Bit like glass.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:52 pm
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

If you have a DPF then 2 stroke might cause an issue. I don't think you do though.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:55 pm
Posts: 71
Free Member
 

get it drained and don't start the engine.

Did it not even occur to you that in the time the thread reached 3 pages he'd probably started the car! Or do you think he say on the petrol station forecourt furiously tapping away at STW for 2 days!?


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:55 pm
 IHN
Posts: 20138
Full Member
Topic starter
 

[i]Like I said in post number 2 or something - your car insurance covers you/your friend/the old pope/me for such cock-ups. No effect on no-claims etc. Bit like glass.[/i]

Mine doesn't, I checked.

[i]If you have a DPF then 2 stroke might cause an issue. I don't think you do though. [/i]

Now you tell me... 😉 *scurries off to check if the van has a DPF*


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:56 pm
Posts: 91169
Free Member
 

Well the 2 stroke was your friend's idea..

Again probably be ok. The problem with engine oils or unusual fuels with DPFs is any ash they might create. However I'd guess that since 2 stroke oil is designed to be burned it would not have this problem. Which is why it was probably a good idea.

But only probably.


 
Posted : 01/03/2013 12:58 pm
Page 2 / 3