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Who decides what is suitable? Would you consider a suicide prevention help page to be something minors should be protected from seeing?
Well certainly not me, I'm not a child psychologist nor do have any professional qualifications concerning suicide, self harm, etc.
Why would you even consider asking me?
Surely if it isn't suitable to be viewed by children then restricting its access to children shouldn't be seen as a problem ?
The issue is that Wikipedia is currently in this bracket.
I refer to my previous comment.....
Now if you think the definition of what is unsuitable for children is wrong then that is a completely different issue.
No-one should be required to verify their age before being allowed to buy a stick of butter just on the off-chance that they might be tempted to shove it up their arse.
Why would you even consider asking me?
I didn't. Did you miss the following sentence?
Switch the butter for a bottle of white lightening. You ok for that to be sold to all and sundry so you don't have to 'be treated like a child'? Would the 19yr old Cougar have felt like he was being treated like a child if he'd been asked for ID so he could have a session down the park?
19-year old Cougar would have been quite surprised as he'd already been doing exactly that of an occasional weekend for several years.
As analogies go that's probably better than you think but not for the reason you intended. We found a way around licensing legislation in minutes via word of mouth, the fine Asian gentleman running the off licence on Nuttall Street was more than happy to sell 1.5L bottles of Forester's cider to 15-year olds.
In fact, is not passing an age verification test the exact opposite of being treated like a child? Failing an age verification test would be like being treated like a child.
Isn't this a bit like the "if you have nothing to hide..." argument?
Which is precisely why there are discussions about banning VPNs
So another 10 years and by then another way around it. Moral argument is one thing but if there is a need to enforce anything then more savvy people need to be involved in it...
to go from that kind of study to implying as the earlier poster seemed to, that porn in general may reduce cases of prostate cancer.
I guess it depends how you read the earlier comment. Whatever it is that you're doing to increase your frequency the better it is for your prostate is how i read it.
The thing is VPNs can't be banned, they are heavily used by business for transactions and secure access to remote servers in data centers etc.
It's basically critical infrastructure.
It would cause problems on a scale I can't really imagine.
Businesses will have thier own VPN they manage internally, compared to a home user routing their data through nordVPN or whatever, but it's the same thing.
Isn't this a bit like the "if you have nothing to hide..." argument?
I don't think so. My car has to pass an MOT. I don't feel it's demeaned because it's only 3yrs old and 'clearly' roadworthy. I show my passport to get back into the UK - I don't feel moral outrage that I have to when I'm 'so obviously British' (words chosen to suggest the obvious Reform UK 'British test' snobbery) . In neither case am I feeling judged on stuff I might have hidden, just assessed that it/I am what I appear on first inspection.
I think it's just a change of mindset that's needed. You are I are in our 2nd half century and for the vast majority of our adult lives the internet has existed and been a go-anywhere landscape that we've basically grown up and old alongside. To think a bit of that might change, and not for our personal gain but the protection of others, might take a bit getting our heads around.
As analogies go that's probably better than you think but not for the reason you intended
To 'touche' your analogy rebuttal......you chatted to many 15-16yr old recently? Way, way less dodgy shops that will sell you underage booze than there were back in our day. To the extent that in many areas kids have basically given up trying. I was blatantly buying rounds in pubs at 16 without a seconds thought as I suspect were most STW old codgers. It's almost like the age verification in that sector has matured and started to work.....
What's disappointing, as with a number of things right now, is the extent to which the current government, supposedly the 'good guys' in our 2-party democracy, is just continuing on with the previous lot's legislation without even pausing to apply any sort of common sense or common good measure to it.
Yeah, problem is they care what the papers say rightly or wrongly. Had they shelved it the front of the Daily Wail would have had something along the lines of "Stamer soft on immigrant pedophiles and loves pron".
If they think teenagers won't be downloading free VPNs (with their inherent risks) or Opera (with it's own less risky VPN), sending each other links to online file repositories like MEGA, torrents, telling their mates about the dodgy sites based in Russia that they have found or even the dark web, they are daft.
But I'm not sure we have ever had a government that truly understands the internet or even technology. This lot on one hand seems to think AI will solve all our problems whilst on the other they're probably eyeing up banning VPNs (I'm ignoring the click bait article from earlier today but you wouldn't put it past them) and social media for under 16s.
I have two sons, one 15 and one 17. They were well aware the Death Stranding selfie workaround and Opera when I spoke to them earlier. We talk about online stuff because it's the nature of parenting.
One of the knock on effect of all this VPN traffic is that the security services are going to have to work harder to keep us actually safe.
:sigh:
The point is, this sort of thing is Hard.
It's been wrapped up in a big old cloak of "won't somebody think of the children" pearl-clutching so if you dare challenge it you're obviously either a deviant or a nonce, but it's half-assed legislation drawn up by a group of people who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about and implemented under the misapprehension that the rest of the world gives the slightest of ****s about the laws of a rainy island at the end of a European cul-de-sac. All of this has come as a surprise to absolutely no-one with an ounce of technical knowledge and indeed was widely predicted at least ten ago (prior to the "Snooper's Charter" Investigatory Powers Act).
Now Parliament is seemingly reeling in shock that VPNs have existed for like 30 years and why did no-one say anything? Oh, I know, we'll ban those too. Yeah, good luck with that. You can then kiss goodbye to remote working, secure online shopping, online banking, the rest of the world wanting anything to do with our incompetent approach to security... and it'll all be for nowt anyway because we'll have bypassed it again whilst the ink is still wet. Hey, why not just take bolt crops to the intercontinental cables, that worked really well for China.(*) Then we can have a fine upstanding British Internet for British people because after all we invented it(**) and Johnny Foreigner can bally well get their own.
In the meantime, before the censorship algorithms kick in, here's a gratuitous photo of a pair of boobies:
(* - it didn't)
(* - we didn't)
Sorry, back to this - 3 times a DAY?!
😂
I recall seeing some 'advice' that the medically interesting/normal range was the same as pooing, it wasn't considered a problem unless it was more than 3 times a day or less than once every 3 days.
I think it's just a change of mindset that's needed. You are I are in our 2nd half century and for the vast majority of our adult lives the internet has existed and been a go-anywhere landscape that we've basically grown up and old alongside. To think a bit of that might change, and not for our personal gain but the protection of others, might take a bit getting our heads around.
I'd be more inclined to agree if I had any faith in the competence of those exacting change. I now need to pass an age verification test (which has already been defeated by a video game in, how many days? whilst we're stretching analogies, it's currently akin to allowing me to drive because I can prove I'm Sonic the Hedgehog) and hand over my details to a US company in order to have unfiltered access to that well-known bastion of hardcore grumble, BlueSky.
Is KWS trustworthy? Are they holding my biometrics securely? Their data buckets are absolutely a prime target for state-sponsored ne'er-do-wells, that much is certain. And that's just one company, who do I have to verify myself to next?
As an aside, I note with some amusement that despite all this new online "protection" the dark web is still readily accessible. And if you think that what most people see is the Wild West then I have some very bad news for you.
you chatted to many 15-16yr old recently? Way, way less dodgy shops that will sell you underage booze than there were back in our day.
I can't say as I have. But if not drink, how many are doing other things instead? Weed, vaping... If you're going to tell me that 15-16 year olds have given up on minor acts of rebellion I'm going to struggle to believe you.
All this age verification censorship for videos, but you can go incognito in Chrome and watch pr0n GIFs to your heart's content without a verification prompt.
I distinctly remember a government minister at the time when copyright infringement was in the spotlight... The pirate bay, etc.
That's apparently banned (ho ho ho!) but even more amusing, they referred (in an official document) to IP as Intellectual property, but in the context of IP as internet protocol, as in IP address.
This is the level of understanding we are dealing with here.
It would be like me trying to create legislation or best practice frameworks for offshore oil drilling despite never having set foot on an oil rig in my life.
If you're going to tell me that 15-16 year olds have given up on minor acts of rebellion I'm going to struggle to believe you.
Going a bit OT but they kind of have - it's very odd. Obviously not totally and they'll always be skagheads and rebel groms in the making, but your 'average' kid has become unhealthy healthy! As in, young boys have become so body conscious and the gym has become the new church of the yoof and Tait and his ilk the preachers. Fear of being an incel is driving too many kids to not do the nefarious stuff we all did and spend their time honing their gym bods. The cool kids are now all about how they look so even the uncool kids who have not drunk the Tait coolaid are being dragged that way too. It's a weird world.
Have you made that small so we don't have to verify our age to see it?
Or is it just that I've been getting carried away with the 3x a day habit?!
I got snagged by this during the week trying to access a fairly boring swedish mail order site.
Also Reddit and a couple of others.
Yeah, no. Not giving my info away to access reddit. All good now though.
and implemented under the misapprehension that the rest of the world gives the slightest of ****s about the laws of a rainy island at the end of a European cul-de-sac
The US has some very similar online safety laws, though. So surprising (well, not really) that Republican politicians are raising the UK laws as a free speech issue. In Florida, for example, no access to porn for under 18s and it's proposed that under 16s have restricted access to social media.
On the point that kids just get VPNs, don't parental controls stop that? They can't install apps or change the config of the device.
With one of these new sim contracts ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg3lgdv3r7o) and proper control over your own wifi at home you 'should' be able to have a good bit of control over what kids get to see.
As ever - with capable and aware parents, children are more likely to be supported/protected. But the majority of kids don't come from homes like that and I guess that's one of the reasons we are where we are with the new regulations.
Pretty sure every SIM I've got recently has a block on adult content for its mobile data. Only the account holder can unlock it.
The problem with parental controls on your own WiFi is that it all goes out of the window as soon as they are at their mate's house, where their parents don't bother.
So I think I do support some base protections that the platforms have to adhere to.
the majority of kids don't come from homes like that and I guess that's one of the reasons we are where we are with the new regulations
‘The majority’? I find that hard to believe.
we are where we are with regulation because legislation looks like action from government. It acts as a handy distraction from real concerns that, sadly, government seems unable to [edit] affect improve [/edit]. Like, say, poverty, education, wage stagnation …
I note with some amusement that despite all this new online "protection" the dark web is still readily accessible.
It's going to be somewhat perverse (sic) if this new "online protection" regulation results in more kids using TOR. I've not looked on there for many years, but it certainly wasn't the sort of space you'd want anybody to go to unless they knew how to protect themselves, both from the threats on there and the risk of accidentally seeing something they couldn't unsee.
‘The majority’? I find that hard to believe.
Really? The British public have crushingly rudimentary abilities to manage anything 'tech'. Scratch that, the British public have a level of naivety regarding online security and potential dangers for their kids that thier incapability to actually do anything about resolving issues is hardly a problem because it's rarely tested. Through work I attend the odd webinar/parent information evening to help parents with this kind of stuff, and it's always a suprise at their level of naivety and 'trust' in their kids based basically on ignorance. Almost like they weren't ever kids themselves and remembered what conniving little whatsits they are or in fact read the job description before putting their hand up to take on the role of looking after a fresh batch.
On the point that kids just get VPNs, don't parental controls stop that? They can't install apps or change the config of the device.
1) Many browsers come with VPN functionality already in place.
2) Most parents probably don't know any better than to have one admin login to the computer. The notion that parents are in any way equipped to outsmart their children with regards to technology is hilarious, the solution to any tech problem has been "get your kid to do it" since before VCRs were all flashing 12:00.
3) Other devices, and other networks, are available.
If you / the government is seeking a technical solution then you / they will fail as sure as night follows day. Because the kids are better at it than you are.
Not sure that's true. Aren't the parents increasingly the kids from 25 years ago who were running rings around their own parents with their tech knowledge? Doesn't the non-tech-aware cohort get smaller over time?
From what I see of my siblings and how they are managing this with their kids, they seem pretty clued up.
I disagree with the suggestion that all kids run rings around their parents. We have got parental controls running through our kids devices, their phone contract and through the wi-fi network. We are pretty liberal but, when we choose too, have complete control over what apps they download, content (mostly), screen time (absolutely). I'm no tech expert, but I do know how to use the decent tools that Apple provide and, givn the amount of whinging from my kids about it, they haven't managed to crack the system yet.
That's exactly what they want you to think
the amount of whinging
I think you have proven my point. You know why they are whining? Because their mates can do stuff they can't (i.e. Thier parents aren't as on it as you). It's my experience that when a whole cohort can't do something, they pipe down pretty quickly. It's when some can't and some can it kicks off. I've been amazed how smooth a transition many schools have had to no phone policies and on reflection it's because from a child's eyeline it's 'fair'. Kid phycology takes a bit of getting your head around - even when something is blatantly unfair, as long as it's similarly unfair to everyone in their circle they seem to be far more at peace with it. If something is manifestly a reasonable request but others get to get away with it, the sky falls in. They will happily be the boiling frog as long as all their mates are boiling too!
Reports of needing to prove your age for Spotify, now.
Utter clusterfudge.
Reports of needing to prove your age for Spotify, now.
Utter clusterfudge.
It's true.
https://support.spotify.com/uk/article/age-restricted-content-age-check/
If lacking VPN or copy of “Death Stranding”, one can always offer up one’s M.P.’s driving licence as verification - enter a postcode here: https://use-their-id.com and screen grab the output. A slightly different way of getting your elected representative to work for you.
☝️ A great way for amateur gynecologists to access their favourite websites !
I don't know how the photos on the driving licence are generated but if it's AI I don't know what's gone on with our Graham. If it is an old photo of him, he's put on a bit of timber!
Ban VPNs? We would be in good company there.
Accordring to google they are bannned in Belarus, Iraq, Turkmenistan, and North Korea. Other nations, such as China, Russia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, Iran, Egypt, and Uganda, restrict or heavily regulate VPN usage.
I had to switch to Opera with the VPN to view a reddit page on beer.
The scope definition for the Online Safety Act is so broadly worded that it includes any kind of forum, so age verification may be required for STW once Ofcom get their enforcement running...
Maybe there is a silver lining and STW politics threads will be blocked...
If lacking VPN or copy of “Death Stranding”, one can always offer up one’s M.P.’s driving licence as verification - enter a postcode here: https://use-their-id.com and screen grab the output. A slightly different way of getting your elected representative to work for you.
Haha, that's brilliant.
You know this must be going well when ofcom employ the services of influencers to promote it
May I suggest OrNET Browser… it seems to happily allow browsing of websites frequented by gentlemen with… discerning tastes, without having to worry about being asked embarrassing questions about their age. 😙
"You know this must be going well when ofcom employ the services of influencers to promote it"
Have they asked Bonnie Blue?
El Reg has an insightful write-up. (I know one of the guys interviewed for the piece.)