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There seems little point voting in a referendum when no one will know what they are voting for. The only certainly is that the EU is unsustainable in its current form. So there is no point debating that.
It either reverts essentially to a loose trade union with it's four freedoms (yes) or moves to a full monetary and fiscal union (no). The pretence that something of a hybrid can be maintained is merely dishonest.
It's not just Cameron BTW, I think most people realise that the EU needs urgent reform. The question is merely which direction do you favour.
Indeed that is the choice
The problem is all of Europe [pretty much] favour the former [ greater and closer ties]and we [ alone pretty much] favour the later of just a loose free trade club with limited political objectives.
Its hard to see how the person/country/nation on the margins sniping ,who wants something different, can change the ethos and MO of the Union. It can easily get to the point where they , and we, have just had enough.
I also think its possible there is a third way where we somehow stay in but there is a two tier EU for those in the Euro zone and those outwith
Pretty messy but the EU does like its irrational fudges.
Blimey! I agree with JY on the subject of Europe.
Personally I think the only real future for Europe is a two tier system. Where those within the Euro will continue towards a federal superstate, and a second group, who remain in a trade block.
Because the euro isn't sustainable as a currency without the former, but the EU itself is unsustainable without the latter.
I actually think that a lot of people within the EU are realistic enough to see renegotiation is an opportunity for the reform that's desperately needed. Who's interests is it serving in its present incarnation? Fewer and fewer of its citizens.
Unfortunately I don't see that pragmatism within the present EU leadership, who seem typically blinkered in their incredibly narrow and ideologically driven idea of what the EU should be (a federal state with a single currency), and completely removed from the people that they're meant to serve. The European Parliament presently makes Westminster look like a model of representative democracy
Are you hungover from the euro party and not had any meat or pastry based cure 😉
Sounds like the start of The Phantom Menace.
That didn't end well.
And right on cue, along comes [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/24/greece-warns-it-is-set-to-default-on-debt-repayment-loans ]Euro-crisis installment 746 [/url], just to remind everyone what a total shambles the present set up is
Hence my comment above Binners. Junkers will try to find yet one more rabbit but this can is well kicked now.
Just flicking through this again:
so if you lead a poor eastern european country that has seen massive emigration to the uk and many of those emigrating send comparitively large sums home to feed and clothe grandma etc so that your govt doesnt have to then how would you vote on welfare reform for eu migrants?
AFAIK these states don't particularly like all their most highly skilled workers buggering off elsewhere. Leaves a bit of a skills gap, not to mention a hole in tax revenue and economic development.
Well he's off to a flying start!
David Cameron's drive to reform the EU suffered its hardest day yet after a string of leaders rejected his plans to strip welfare from migrants.
The Prime Minister was told by four European leaders in a succession of face-to-face meetings that they could not accept plans to rewrite the treaties of the EU to deny in-work benefits to migrants.
And that's from the Torygraph, so with a positive spin on it!
Of course if all jobs paid a decent wage, you wouldn't even need in work benefits.....
And that's from the Torygraph, so with a positive spin on it!
The "Torygraph" will never put a positive spin on negotiations with the EU, regardless of the party in power.
He exerts as much influence over them as the euroscpetics in his own party then.