What is a lefty to do?
Get a wash 😀
I find my tax gets wasted on stuff, spent badly, spent on things I dont agree with, spent by organisations that couldnt run a bath let alone a business/council/organisation etc.
If those who used my tax were more accountable Id be happier paying it.
At the moment I see no reason to pay more tax than you legally have to.
Interesting point made on Question Time last week as there was a guy on there who owned a Starbucks franchise.
He is essentially a small independent business owner who pays his royalty to Starbucks and pays his tax to HRMC independently of the global Starbucks business. He has therefore done nothing wrong (apart from having the wrong sign over his shop), unlike the larger Starbucks franchise organisation.
Given the fact that he employs 50 staff, boycotting businesses like his does little to hurt the larger Starbucks organisation, but has a significant effect on his business & therefore the local economy.
I think it's easy to lose sight of the effect general boycotts can have on the exactly the type of business most people would actually like to support in tough times like these.
It is the governments responsibility to make sure that the tax loopholes exploited by Starbucks, Amazon etc are closed. General boycotts can be counter productive in my opinion unless it is crystal clear where your money is actually going.
I'm pretty sure you could find something to object about almost every company or individual you deal with.
Very true. That leaves us back to my recent thread title - "Are some people just too anti for their own good..."
True but just because we cannot do everything it is no reason do nothing
Again, very true, but in that case realise that mose people are the same, but for different reasons.
I, for instance, don't give a toss about the politics of it, but:
I don't ever go to Starbucks becasue they're so bloody expensive and the coffee is only average
I only buy free range chicken and get my meat almost excluseively from the local butchers, becasue I like to think the animals have been treated better and the meat is nicer
I've not eaten 'food' from McDs for maybe 15 years, becasue it's crap. The coffee is better than Starbucks though, and 1/4 of the price. Ditto BK, except the coffee!
I won't, on principal that it's CRAP use Microsoft products any more if I can help it. So I paid through the nose for several Apple products, which aren't.
Yeah, the profits I spent at Apple go straight back to the USA. Big deal. They rent and fit out big posh stores, and they employ loads of (Very polite and efficiant IME) staff, and they spend advertising revenue in the UK, at least, so it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other IMO. 🙂
If one was to avoid everything that was bad for you, morally or ethically wrong or whatever other objection there may be, you'd sit there naked and starve/freeze to death! 🙂
I wonder how many people who object to nuclear power generate all their own electricity? 8)
I find my tax gets wasted on stuff, spent badly, spent on things I dont agree with, spent by organisations that couldnt run a bath let alone a business/council/organisation etc.
Have you considerrd voting or standing for election?
If those who used my tax were more accountable Id be happier paying it.
More accountable than being democratically elected? What exactly are you wanting for this "more".
At the moment I see no reason to pay more tax than you legally have to.
Fine but those of us who work and do PAYE have no choice as do those small business based here who compete with these giants have no choice and the burden will pass to us[the ones who cannot avoid paying it]
That does not seem fair either but only little people pay tax
I wonder how many people who object to nuclear power generate all their own electricity? 8)
[url= http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/ ]ecotricity 8)[/url]
http://duckduckgo.com/ is a decent Google alternative with privacy benefits as well.
ecotricity
Looks good, thanks, I'd never heard of them.
You're still tapping into the same grid as everyone else though, but the principal is good I think, a good alternative. 🙂
Is there an alternative to Google?Of course there is. Google it.
Bing, Yahoo etc
But Google is much more than just a search engine now.
Can people who think Starbucks coffee is bad please post which coffee you prefer? Cos I've not found many widely available coffees that are better, just the odd place here and there.
+1 for Nero being the best of the big 3. Starbucks isn't coffee, it's something that tastes kida like coffee, but isn't. Costa varies too much from place to place, sometimes it's good, other times it's un-drinkable. The local Nero actualy worked out cheeper than boradband for me, £5 for a coffe and cake, once or twice a week was better than £30 for BB and line rental!
Seriously - McDonalds.
I drink their coffee too. It's ok but pretty similar to Starbucks in style. They seem to use whole milk though which bucks will do if you ask.
The coffee is better than Starbucks though, and 1/4 of the price
No, it's £1.69 there for a large latte and something like £2.40 for similar at Starbucks.
Starbucks isn't coffee, it's something that tastes kida like coffee, but isn't.
Stop being so f'in childish please. It's obvioulsy coffee, it's a dark roast and it's made the same way as everywhere else in the same kind of machine.
It's just a matter of taste, that's all. You prefer Nero, I really don't like Nero, I prefer Starbucks and Costa over Nero. Stop being such a bloody snobby pillock, it drives me up the bloody wall. Nero is just another big identikit chain, serving up basically the exact same thing except it's a different blend to suit a different taste. That's it. It's not inherently better or more worthy.
Oh and ecotricity are a brilliant company to deal with - no BS, just sound customer service and a commitment to renewables. Sign up now.
Shop local[b]ly[/b]
Are we boycotting adverbs now?
😆
Every company avoids tax where they can.
As stated above, by boycotting these huge companies, you are damaging small UK based business owners. Starbucks franchise, Amazon use local sellers and delivery companies, android phones are sold through many retailers.
lobby to change the laws.
Firstly, the Starbucks coffee discussion....its pish.
Sickly sweet, caramel, cinnamon and seemingly any other flavour you want to ruin the coffee with nonsense, cream on top, american version of what they think coffee should taste like....it is truly crap, instant stuff tastes more like coffee.
Get a grinder and some filters, buy some beans and make your own....costs about £20 for the initial outlay....thats what coffee tastes like.
My other half always orders something like a Caramel-Mocha-Latte-with cream on top-and chocolate dusting (you get the idea).....tastes like a vaguely coffee flavoured milkshake....rancid stuff.
Now, big companies avoiding tax....yep, all for it if it keeps their prices down, as a consumer i want good products at cheap prices....also if their profits allow them to expand and employ more people then thats fine by me too....its down to the government to sort the loopholes, perhaps if government expenditure wasnt so vast they wouldnt be whingeing about lost tax from these companies?
If i could pay less tax i would too, i honestly believe its the duty of everybody to pay as little as possible and to force efficiency on the government.
By boycotting these companies you take your money to a UK based company so you are harming them more than the UK - not least because they pay no tax and they loose revenue and the county gains revenue.
Samurai starbucks makes a loss in the uk so how would be harming an organisation that cannot make a profit it should close down if it were true.
PS
http://www.whichfranchise.com/feature_template.cfm?featureId=308
First Starbucks franchise to open in the UK
The rumours are true, Starbucks is to franchise in the UK! Following a period of exceptional trading, coffee giant Starbucks has recently revealed it will open its first Starbucks franchise in the UK before the end of 2012.
Aiming to open the first UK Starbucks franchise in the South of England, and the first Starbucks franchise in the world, it is a very interesting time for UK franchising.
The reason for the UK being picked as the location for the first Starbucks franchise is simply down to our passion for coffee and the expected future growth of the UK coffee market.
Starbucks currently operates its own stores and via licenses. It will however be introducing Starbucks franchise opportunities within the UK to enable stores to be opened in small towns where a franchisee would be able to contribute their local knowledge.
Starbucks has indicated that it plans to open 200 Starbucks franchises in the UK by 2017.
Find out more about coffee franchises in the UK
Dont believe the hype
These debates are interesting to me as I think they tend to highlight the fact that applying an inflexible "Black and White" moral code to the businesses you choose to use can't really work and everyone has exceptions and caviates, everyone operates in a grey area or two I reckon.
The criteria vary from person to person too, some are more concerned about Tax dodging others chopping down rainforests, others use of forced or low wage labour there five times as many dimensions to ethical judgement as there are companies to apply them to...
It all comes down to the degree and types of questionable ethics you are really willing to accept as an individual Vs what you are willing to spend, I very much doubt anyone can honestly sight a completely ethical, whiter than white company but it seems those who claim ethical business practices amongst their USPs often charge a premium...
I think I'd be interested to know out of all of the most "ethically objectionable" organisations which of them "offset" their evil deeds through charitable acts and donations, and does that sort of thing carry any real weight with consumers?
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Samuri + 1
It's the big accountancy firms like PricewaterhouseCoopers that come up with these clever and legal tax loopholes, like I said in my earlier post, look closer to home, Glaxosmithkline, Top Shop, Sky, Northern & Shell etc etc.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17993945 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17993945[/url]
But if it makes you feel empowered to buy coffee elsewhere then carry on, but it won't change laws.
Fail
Every company avoids tax where they can.
Yes and no. Every business will seek to be tax efficient, but only some will deliberately exploit loopholes. We know this because (for example) Costa pay rather more tax than Starbucks.
I've decided that I will no longer use Amazon. I've never used Starbucks because the coffee sucks.
Starbucks is to coffee what McDonalds is to food.
Starbucks is to coffee what McDonalds is to food.
And what All Bar One is/was to pubs.
Not that it's got anythign to do with their tax arrangements.
Why do you think all these companies floated in the USA try to avoid reporting proffit in the USA?
It's actually the opposite. Corporate tax rates are lower in the US than here so the tendency is to recharge as much centralised cost to the higher tax location such as the UK, and thereby maximise the profit in the lower tax location, such as the US.
We know this because (for example) Costa pay rather more tax than Starbucks
Costa is owned by Whitbread so the tax will be paid by Whitbread on their profits. Whitbread paid about £36m in tax at an effective rate of 26%.
Sickly sweet, caramel, cinnamon and seemingly any other flavour you want to ruin the coffee with nonsense, cream on top, american version of what they think coffee should taste like....it is truly crap, instant stuff tastes more like coffee.
a) It's not like you HAVE to order the syrups
b) All coffee places sell that stuff too.
Amazed at the bellendery on display with regards coffee. Why can't people just say 'actually I prefer X other brand' without such idiotic tribal willy waving. FFS.
.tastes like a vaguely coffee flavoured milkshake
Good example. Wtf exactly is wrong with a coffee flavoured milkshake? Do you slag off people who want strawberry milkshakes because they aren't eating real strawberries?
Samurai starbucks makes a loss in the uk so how would be harming an organisation that cannot make a profit it should close down if it were true.
It's not true - it does make a profit in the UK, they have just rigged it to look like they aren't.
Shop local ....... avoid nestle like the plague
I live 300m from a Nestle factory.
I'm confused now 🙂
We have the usual nonsense Coca-Cola and Nestle bans here at the Uni in which I work. Meanwhile they're more than happy to sell cigs. Love those kiddies playing at politics. We'll boycott it as long as it doesn't affect us.
Caffe Nero are also on my list of places not to go now it's been revealed they have paid no tax at all on £39.5m of profits:
[i]Starbucks has indicated that it plans to open 200 Starbucks franchises in the UK by 2017.
Find out more about coffee franchises in the UK
Dont believe the hype [/i]
I always completely ignore all hype. I believed the chap who was on question time who said he owned a franchise.
I fancy the manageress of the Starbucks near work.
I am waist-deep in a moral dilemma. 🙁
Not that i really go to starbucks, but it was this that really put me off them
http://starbucks.co.uk/blog/starbucks-commitment-to-the-uk/
They tried to justify it on the basis that their employees pay tax (then changed their statement)! On that basis, i shouldn't pay income tax as i buy stuff and pay VAT on it.
Its just like the MP's expenses scandal or media phone hacking, they haven't grasped the level of public annoyance and are continuing trying to justify the semi-legal methods in blissful ignorance of the damage its doing to their companies image.
Oh and ecotricity are a brilliant company to deal with - no BS, just sound customer service and a commitment to renewables. Sign up now.
Agreed.
Had nothing but positive experience with Abel & Cole too.
It [i]is[/i] up to governments to sort it out, but the dealbreaker for me was the John Lewis chappie saying that long term they could not compete with Amazon in a market where JL were paying their full taxes and Amazon wern't. So if something doesn't change, the future is going to be worse.
For me, I'm a very good amazon customer, but I needed a washing machine this week and John Lewis got my business.
For smaller things I usually prefer to click on "fulfilled by amazon", but from now on I'll be looking for their smaller suppliers.
Its internet shopping, it takes almost no effort to avoid giving them your money (or just give them less).
If they start losing in sales the 10% (or whatever) that they are saving in tax, maybe things will change?
It is up to governments to sort it out, but the dealbreaker for me was the John Lewis chappie saying that long term they could not compete with Amazon in a market where JL were paying their full taxes and Amazon wern't. So if something doesn't change, the future is going to be worse.
Yip. That pretty much sums it up to me.
I don't believe all this bleating.... its EU competition law. Honestly, we can't do anything about it. Really we can't.
I'm sure they could do a lot about it. if there was the remotest will to do so. But there isn't. And why....
because we all know that when this lot are voted out, they'll all be popping up as non-exec directors on the boards of the banks that fleeced us, the tax-dodging companies leeching off us, and the Serco's and G4S's of this world, making a fortune on the back of newly privatised public services. Just the same as the last lot are now.
Payback time! And if the rest of 'the little people' pay the price for this revolving door, then who cares. As long as we can pick up our enormous 'salaries' (tax free of course) for our 'consultancy' work
Don't see how I'd cope without Amazon (and especially certain sellers on Amazon's marketplace)these days. (I buy a LOT of music on CD.)
For CDs DVDs and books, shops have had their day. Sad but true.
They carry NO stock other than popular mainstream stuff (which I'm not into) charge top whack and I'd have to waste at least a half-day of a weekend to get to and from town.
I can order any day on-line and be guaranteed a parcel in the next morning's post and save a fortune.
There are worse things to worry about than their tax avoiding as far as I'm concerned. Most big companies skirt around the edge of legality to save money.
On the other hand I've never been to a Starbucks in my life and have no intention of doing so...
Oh and ecotricity are a brilliant company to deal with
Unfortunately, they're less than brilliant in the way they treat their employees.
Ecotricity also extract massive subsidies to operate windmills in places where there's no wind - the £134K annual subsidy to operate the turbine by the M4 in Reading is a prime example. The owner of Ecotricity, Vince something, also likes to lecture everyone on renewal energy and doing their bit whilst himself swanning round in gas guzzling company Range Rover.
I think this whole "boycott" argument is often fuelled by a very cheap, lazy journalistic crusade by crap media that relies on "outrage" stories.
Do you have a pension? If so, it is likely that your pension fund will have some investment in major corporations like these. Be totally selfish here - do you want enough money to retire on, or would you prefer a moral stance but poverty? That's one set of choices.
On a personal note I work for a tech firm that was invested into (to the tune of tens of millions) by a major corporate. As a result, we have created 80+ jobs in the UK alone in 10 months, with something like 20 more in 2 other European countries. So some of the tax saved has been reinvested into serious growth on a local level. Where does this leave the moral guardians? I'd be interested to know your thoughts 🙂
.............because we all know that when this lot are voted out
there will be another bunch of economic neo-liberals voted in that will do absolutely bugger all to rectify the situation.
Ecotricity also extract massive subsidies to operate windmills in places where there's no wind - the £134K annual subsidy to operate the turbine by the M4 in Reading is a prime example.
Public subsidy is available for various forms of energy generation. For example, Osborne has just spunked £5 billion of our money on gas.
As for the M4 turbine, you shouldn't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail. It has apparently generated just shy of 3 million KWh of electricity since it was built. Not bad for a site with no wind...
there will be another bunch of economic neo-liberals voted in that will do absolutely bugger all to rectify the situation.
Exactly. Same as the last lot. Its just a revolving door, gravy train. None of whom give a flying one about the electorate, whatever their proclaimed leanings.
Would you like your huge shit sandwich with ketchup or brown sauce?
Ecotricity also extract massive subsidies to operate windmills in places where there's no wind - the £134K annual subsidy to operate the turbine by the M4 in Reading is a prime example.
So why's it turning almost every time I drive past it? Maybe one of the mal-treated employees is in there turning a handle?
Ok so that's flippant, it probably isn't a prime location for a turbine but it's intended to be a local power source for that business park isn't it? Local power generation is a good idea in principle I reckon.
Seriously though - what's this about maltreating employees?
ransos, a real indicator is the number of times I drive to / from work and that turbine is not moving. The fact is that even with a peppercorn rent from Green Park, we actually have to spend £2k a week just to keep it in operation. Bonkers.
Have never had any problem avoiding Amazon, Starbucks and the like tbh
ransos, a real indicator is the number of times I drive to / from work and that turbine is not moving. The fact is that even with a peppercorn rent from Green Park, we actually have to spend £2k a week just to keep it in operation. Bonkers.
No, the real indicator is how much electricity it generates, which is rather more than the zero you were claiming. 3 million units more, in fact.
It's actually the opposite. Corporate tax rates are lower in the US than here
False. The corporation tax rate in the UK is 24. In the USA its 40, the highest rate anywhere in the world. The USA is one of the most expensive places to make money. They can get away with it as its also the place you can make the most money (and the also have relatively low payroll and sales taxes etc.)
The fact that our government don't think we can get away with it and in the last 4 years have actually dropped the rate from 30% to 24% is mind boggling. In fact every other economy in the top 10 by GDP has a higher rate of corporation tax than us. Most are above 30.
Data from KMPG.
http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/pages/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx
