[Closed] So… public sector workers...

What pay rise is this then?

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/13/pay-decisions-announced-for-nhs-staff-and-other-public-sector-workers-politics-live-blog ]1%[/url]

I'm not sure it applies to teachers. I get to pay 0.7% more towards my pension from april though.

My heart bleeds purple piss!

As they say.

Nice pay cut.

No pay rise for me in the private sector for a couple of years so don't see the issue they appear to be saying about only getting 1%.

That oh so generous 1% pay rise is not across the board, each dept chooses how to use it. Last year they used it to help those at the bottom of the pay scale here, which was fine.

This year it appears to be linked to performance reviews. Either way it's worth jack shit if you are already at the top of the pay band and they don't move the band margins.

If I got 1% it may help us cope as MrsMC is having to apply for her own job in local government as they halve the size of her team.

MCTD - earning two thirds what he was on in the private sector in 1999, but with a much better work-life balance. But regretting not joining before the great pension schemes were abolished

On the other hand we have Gideon saying that the economy is recovering yet there are massive cuts going on in the public sector, only to outsource them to more expensive, less competent private sector companies with next to 0 accountability.

Whether you work public or private sector don't begrudge what is a joke of a pay rise - we never hear the private sector workers bemoaning their bonuses / pay rises when the going is good.

Oh yeah, forgot my pension contribution goes up again in April....

Pieface - Member
On the other hand we have Gideon saying that the economy is recovering yet there are massive cuts going on in the public sector, only to outsource them to more expensive, less competent private sector companies with next to 0 accountability.

Whether you work public or private sector don't begrudge what is a joke of a pay rise - we never hear the private sector workers bemoaning their bonuses / pay rises when the going is good.

^^this

On your marks.

Get set.

Race to the bottom.

I had my 1% last year at the same time as pensions upped so I got about 20p a month more. This year I'm hoping for an extra 30p in my pocket. I'd move back into private if I could but there's very little work about unless you're around That Landan.

Public sector jobs will one day soon all be private sector jobs,so best to be happy with what you get, lots of unemployed and sick people get a lot less.

If I got 1% it may help us cope as MrsMC is having to apply for her own job in local government as they halve the size of her team

If you can half a team and till function, then that must of been a pretty over staffed dept.

Well it is better than my 0.5% in the private sector.

gobuchul - Member
If I got 1% it may help us cope as MrsMC is having to apply for her own job in local government as they halve the size of her team

If you can half a team and till function, then that must of been a pretty over staffed dept.

But then the long term plan is to half the team so it can't function, thus "proving" that public sector is not "efficient", for it then to be outsourced to the private sector on a more expensive contract so the new company can **** it up whilst making a profit with no accountability.

FTFY

@gobuchol - only overstaffed if you decide to slash the amount of training you provide.

It's not like child protection staff need keeping up to date. What could go wrong if already pressurised newly qualified staff aren't given necessary support?

When the economy was booming and the private sector were getting well above inflation pay rises I can recall the government using low public sector pay increases to avoid excessive inflation, with the justification of good pension deals offsetting some of the difference.

When the economy was doing badly and private sector pay rises were lower (figures for last year were around 2.8% on average) the private sector had a long pay freeze and increased contributions to pensions with poorer pension outcomes.

Now we have some recovery in the economy there are predictions of private sector pay rises up to 3.5% (that I have seen) while public sector are to get 1% maximum and further increases in pension contributions.

?

Time for industrial action?

After all, public sector pay is now outstripping private sector pay by less than in the past. Is that fair?

Private sector worker here - what are these bonuses you speak of??

After all, public sector pay is now outstripping private sector pay by less than in the past. Is that fair?

I could get more pay, longer holidays and the same pension in the private sector!

gonna take it all out of the bank in £5 notes and throw it on the street to watch the poors fight over it

It's not like child protection staff need keeping up to date. What could go wrong if already pressurised newly qualified staff aren't given necessary support?

So your Mrs's dept has been victim of mis-management by incompetent public sector management?

I don't think anyone would suggest that child protection should not be top of the list when it comes to priorities, however, a lot of public sector stuff is unnecessary and over manned. I have witnessed first hand how departments grow for no apparent reason and very vague job justifications are used to do so. This was before the "crash" and the current cuts.

I could get more pay, longer holidays and the same pension in the private sector!

Really? What do you do?

Why don't you go and work in the private sector?

Can't think of where this is true apart from being a mercenary!

Having never been a public sector worker, I do get confused by the whole payrise/payscale thing.

Dr North's a pseudo public sector type (university). Each year she seems to get a pay rise (small) and move up a "spine point" on her payscale.

Is that normal? It's not a criticism either way (I wouldn't work as hard as she does for the money she's paid, although I quite fancy one of the cushy admin jobs that seems to pay around £50k for turning up for around 6 hours a day).

After all, public sector pay is now outstripping private sector pay by less than in the past.

Isn't that just because the public sector staff get laid off then re-hired on zero-hour, zero-benefit, zero-pension contracts by the uber efficient private sector.

Hardly a cause for celebration...

Gobuchul
Teacher
Morals

Average public sector pay £ 16 approx per hour, private sector pay £14 approx per hour. I strongly the average work conditions favor the public sector worker.

It's a disgrace I tell you.... 😉

ourmaninthenorth - Member

Dr North's a pseudo public sector type (university). Each year she seems to get a pay rise (small) and move up a "spine point" on her payscale.

Is that normal?

yes but, she'll only move up a spine point 4 or 5 times until she's at the top of the 'grade'.

going up a grade is difficult at best.

Gobuchul
Teacher
Morals

Fair enough.

Is it the same pension though?

Yep, I presume the school pay the bit the government pays (or doesnt as the case is)

I do get the impression that all the changes to public sector jobs are simply to reduce the liabilities, in order for the lot to be handed over to G4S, Serco, and Capita.

And they've all got the best interests of the country at heart

This thread proves that the Tory's divide and rule mentality has certainly worked (not that labour would have done owt different). Lots of people bickering about who's worse off. In reality the financial crisis, and subsequent austerity, has been used as a cover to **** everyone over, public and private sector equally. Apart from those at the top of course. Who seem to have done rather nicely out of the deal.

anagallis_arvensis - Another question - How is it longer holidays? I assumed that children had to attend a legal minimum each year?

Do the rich kids get more time off?

Kryton - interesting that the top of my scale is below the average hourly rate in the private sector. And I have quite a responsible job as an independent statutory officer - i.e. I am personally accountable if someone takes me to a judicial review.

In the public sector haven't had a pay rise in years :/ nor do I get a public sector pension. I don't know if I will get 1% this year but it would be better than nothing but as Northwind says it is a pay cut. In real terms my salary has fallen by about 10% over the last few years...

gobuchul - Member

If you can half a team and till function, then that must of been a pretty over staffed dept.

We did just that in my last proper private sector job.

We achieved the "efficiency savings" by providing disastrous service and losing customers, making more mistakes leading to high cash losses far in excess of the staff savings, running up a massive overtime bill despite management bullying to attempt to get staff to work for free, and then losing a number of staff to long term stress-related sickness from which they never returned. Then the department was closed down entirely because it was so dysfunctional it wasn't considered worth trying to repair the damage done by the hatchet man.

TBH if this were to happen in the public sector the current government would view it as a success.

Average public sector pay £ 16 approx per hour, private sector pay £14 approx per hour. I strongly the average work conditions favor the public sector worker.

Lower paid public sector staff tend to be better paid than they would be in the private sector. So, cleaners, traffic wardens, etc. are better off.

Higher paid public sector staff tend to be more poorly paid than they would be in the private sector.

Hence, the higher average pay.

We got our first pay ride in 4 years this year, of 1% (sixth form college budgets weren't protected like pre-16). Our salaries are now slightly lower than school teachers'.

In that four years, our pension contributions have risen, we all have an additional 5% contact time, and our class sizes have gone up meaning more work per class outside of contact time.

We've also made some staff redundant and as people leave or retire they're generally not replaced and their work is either spread out among others or just not done at all.

In real terms my salary has fallen by about 10% over the last few years...

ourmaninthenorth - Member
Having never been a public sector worker, I do get confused by the whole payrise/payscale thing.

Dr North's a pseudo public sector type (university). Each year she seems to get a pay rise (small) and move up a "spine point" on her payscale.

Is that normal? It's not a criticism either way (I wouldn't work as hard as she does for the money she's paid, although I quite fancy one of the cushy admin jobs that seems to pay around £50k for turning up for around 6 hours a day).

There is a spine for certain roles (e.g. senior lecturer), and yearly increases are a way to reward experience - mine is about £800 a year. But once you reach the top of a particular scale you're stuck with the yearly rises agreed between employers and unions (e.g. 1%) unless you get a promotion.

This thread proves that the Tory's divide and rule mentality has certainly worked (not that labour would have done owt different). Lots of people bickering about who's worse off. In reality the financial crisis, and subsequent austerity, has been used as a cover to **** everyone over, public and private sector equally. Apart from those at the top of course. Who seem to have done rather nicely out of the deal.

THIS and what DONK said

Its pointless argue over who gets the best deal when we are discussing which one gets the better quality lube whilst the rich shaft us.

As DONK notes its a race to the bottom for no reason that makes sense for anyone but the rich

I have not seen the figures on Public sector but i assumed it was due to the high % of degrees in say teaching and nursing.
I also though the comment above was fair - better pay at lower grades ie cleaners and poorer for professionals say accountants and the like

FFS even Boris agrees to pay a living wage to staff in London and he is hardly a lefty. I bet the city paying the bankers huge bonuses employ a hoarde of zero hours minimum waged cleaners though as costs are important eh.

One rule for them and one for us and distract us by arguing over who gets it worst poor public sector or poor private sector

Having never been a public sector worker, I do get confused by the whole payrise/payscale thing.

Teachers have* a nationally agreed/negotiated pay scale.

There are 6 points on the main scale (£21k to £32k); each year a teacher can progress upward by one point on the scale, subject to passing certain standards.

There are 3 points on the upper pay scale (£34.5k to £37k); every two years a teacher can progress upward by one point on the scale, subject to passing certain standards.

The progression is supposed to reflect the fact that more experienced teachers help their newer colleagues, rather than competing to outperform them: research has shown that the people who go into teaching aren't generally motivated by performance-related pay.

After 12 years you hit the top of the pay scale. You're then stuck at that until you retire/die/go into management. Now that I'm at the top of the scale, I (potentially) have another 31 years of earning this much ahead of me.

[i]*had - see Free Schools[/i]

1% is 0.5% more than I got last year, and that was my first rise for 4 years

Mrs Llama is in public sector and gets £1000 rise every year automatic (while within a pay band).

One rule for them and one for us and distract us by arguing over who gets it worst poor public sector or poor private sector

THIS

llama
1% is 0.5% more than I got last year, and that was my first rise for 4 years

So move to the public sector. Problem solved.