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I know there's been a couple of Tom Moore threads but just finished watching football focus where they were doing a piece on diversity and then BBC News led with the Tom Moore story platforming his Daughter and his family.
A brave fighter pilot who raised millions for charity, nothing to be sceptical about here right? The truth that the BBC news missed but never the less enabled was that this was not a campaign run by Captain Tom Moore, it was orchestrated by his Daughter and her family.
The Tom Moore story was devoid of context and too easily used as a meme for nationalists and brexiters. To what extent do you think his daughter has a responsibility in the way in which this story played out? It was a story that could have reminded us of the Captains actions in fighting fascism as part of a coalition of dozens of Nations. The news could have also focused more on this aspect but instead it became an event draped in the flag and followed the narrative as set out by his family. On the whole the story can't be said to have bought the nation together and teeters into the banging pots for the NHS territory.
I thought these things within a couple of seconds of seeing his daughter on TV when the story first broke. I could see how this story would play out in the media, why couldn't she?.... Or perhaps she did.
Contrast this story with that of Sydney Pigden, another WW2 fighter pilot who died a couple of years ago.
I thought this was all a bit odd. Lovely elderly chap raises some money for charity and sadly passes away shortly afterwards. As sad as that is, does it really deserve all this nauseating news coverage ?
Oh BTW, he was Army, not a fighter pilot.
Ruling elite using the war as a mechanism to encourage normal people to reinforce the narrative that we are best ruled over by public school types.
I stand corrected wrong trousers. Looks like I put Captain Sir Tom Moore in the wrong trousers, RAF blue ones rather than Army khaki.
Unfortunately his story appears to tick all the boxes for the mythical sepia-tinted past this country has recently manufactured for itself, and it’s presently being very cynically manipulated to further a nationalist narrative of English exceptionalism
An old boy who thought he’d try & raise a few pennies for the knackered NHS. He succeeds beyond his wildest dreams.
Don’t fing over-think it.
Take it at face value.
Mr Pigden? I thought you was dead?
That was Mr Parrot.
Definitely over thinking it. The whole story was a piece of good news floating on top of a sea of awful news.
"Definitely over thinking it."
- Best to let the media do our thinking for us yes?
"The whole story was a piece of good news floating on top of a sea of awful news."
- Alternative News is the phrase ypure looking for.
Definitely over thinking it. The whole story was a piece of good news floating on top of a sea of awful news
I wish. That's what it should have been. But the way it has been exploited by the Brexiters/English nationalists/don't look at the corruption mob is extremely distasteful.
Unfortunately his story appears to tick all the boxes for the mythical sepia-tinted past this country has recently manufactured for itself, and it’s presently being very cynically manipulated to further a nationalist narrative of English exceptionalism
+1
All part of the great british self delusion.
I bet Inkster and Onewheelgood are at the top of the list when you have too many positive people at your dinner party and you need a joy sucker to get people to leave.
Questioning what is playing out in front of you isn’t about sucking the joy out of things. The tendency towards calling for people to be “positive”, as if that is the antithesis to “critical thinking”, worries me a great deal. It’s probably at the heart if a great many mistakes in recent years, and so easily used to basically tell people to shut up and accept the party/national line without questioning it.
A great story but so exploited by the press etc.
I'm still confused as to how they managed a foreign holiday during lockdown.
Unfortunately it was always likely to be co-opted by the plastic patriot nationalists. The really sad thing is the utter predictability of this.
Expect all sorts of nasty little alt-right shits trying to tell the world what Captain Tom 'would have made of this'.
Don’t fing over-think it.
Take it at face value.
Totally, i think op and others are pretty much demeaning his memory, his achievements throughout his life in order to satisfy their misgivings.
Totally, i think op and others are pretty much demeaning his memory, his achievements throughout his life in order to satisfy their misgivings.
And I think the opposite. I think those who exploit his innocent good nature to incite jingoistic nationalism are the ones who demean him.
I think those who exploit his innocent good nature to incite jingoistic nationalism are the ones who demean him.
+1
The whole thing became government propaganda.
The very fact that we need "NHS Charities" is a disgrace anyway.
Nice old bloke, doing something nice. End of story.
For some reason people jumped on his fund raiser and he raised a massive amount of money.
I remember at the time they was an old woman walking up and down her stairs for a few weeks to raise money which was very difficult for her. People didn't jump all over that one and she never got mentioned again, she may even still be going up and down stairs all day, who knows.
Old boy raises some money for the NHS and then has his efforts hijacked by the establishment for pr purposes. I wish his family were left in peace to grieve and pay their respects rather than it turn into a media circus
efforts hijacked by the establishment for pr purposes.
Been happening for decades, always a politician out touting for press pics.
The very fact that we need “NHS Charities” is a disgrace anyway.
It's ok, they don't need any more money, they will be entirely funded by clapping moving forwards.
"I bet Inkster and Onewheelgood are at the top of the list when you have too many positive people at your dinner party and you need a joy sucker to get people to leave."
......................
Gammon for dinner? I'll bring the whine.
"I wish his family were left in peace to grieve and pay their respects rather than it turn into a media circus".
......................
I think you'll find his family asked for it Chris, as per my OP, the first time I saw his Daughter talk on camera I felt uneasy, I saw an old and dignified man being manipulated by a family member who I thought knew full well how this could and would be exploited by the media and politicians. If she didn't realise at first, then she was certainly in a position to control the narrative when it became evident how the story was being exploited. Though perhaps she was just blinded by the limelight and couldnt garner a perspective on the unfolding events, maybe she wasn't quite as smart as her posh accent suggested. That is a possibility.
A great story but so exploited by the press etc.
I’m still confused as to how they managed a foreign holiday during lockdown.
Yup sums it up.
Because Boris still allowed people to fly in and out of the UK.
Drac just beat me to it
More annoyed that while on holiday he posed for a photo with the owners of one of the top local cycling cafes. No wonder they couldn't be open for takeaways 😂😂
Agree with Inkster on this and had the same thoughts regarding the daughters TV appearances. Ive been rather conflicted about the whole thing. Sir Tom I have no issues with, daughter I'm not sure about, fund raising for the NHS, I think a lot of people who donated would not be happy that their contributions didn't go towards front line costs (and it absolutely shoudn't), especially if they find out what it was actually spent on, cynical use of the story to back up a shoddy and nasty political ideology, disgusting.
Yes a good news story, Tom just happened to be the one fund raiser that went viral (Michael Ball helped alot), does that make him this sainted figure he's been turned into, no, does it detract from his intentions and motivations, also no.
Amazing how the anti Govt mob have jumped on this old boys funeral to turn it into an anti Govt rant.
Ironic almost.
Why can't it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
brads
Full Member
Amazing how the anti Govt mob have jumped on this old boys funeral to turn it into an anti Govt rant.Ironic almost.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
It can't just be an old soldiers funeral for all the reasons already posted in the thread? I'm puzzled?
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
Because it was made into something else.
You know many others who were Knighted so quickly for their charity work?
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
Ask the government's propaganda department.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
Because somebody invited all the media to attend and turned it into a circus.
Just as easy to say ‘the family appreciate your sentiments but request that you respect their privacy at this difficult time’
You’d think that in the middle of a pandemic, when people aren’t meant to be travelling or assembling in groups, that wouldn't be too difficult.
It’s all developed a pretty unpleasant, exploitative undercurrent
Ask the government’s propaganda department.
brads likes to think he is 'on message' with the new right, but he's going to be left at the window looking in, whilst the pigs dip their snouts in the trough and ignore him and his ilk.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?
Isn’t that exactly what the OP was asking?
I have found the whole Captan Tom thing a bit of a circus from the start.
Old bloke raises money for the NHS - a seemingly decent gesture.
What doesn't sit right with me is that he was raising the money in the first place. Surely this is a massive failure by the government?
The media have leapt on this and media being media have turned it into said circus and i get the feeling that the family particularly the daughter was instrumental in this....like i say, just a feeling.
Its something i have looked at from the perspective of my own Granfathers, Uncles service in WW2, they were all in the worst of it and many wounded, but there were never discussions, no medals on show, no regimental ties, no blazers and berets on remembrance sundays just a quiet pint and a thought for their dead friends. I was sad to see his natural cheeriness about the War converted into Spitfires, Dakotas, Flags and British fighting spirit by a shitty right wing press.
My family members had none of that cheer for the war they fought in. Greece, Western Desert, Sicliy, Monte Cassino, D Day, Normandy, Arnhem, Rhine, Bergan Belsen, Russian Conveys.
Anyway i shall wsnder off and raise a beer to all of them including Sir Tom.
Agree with the above. My grandfather fought at Monte Casino, my Dad in the Falklands and the Gulf. Amazing unassuming men that were real understated heros. We celebrate the one instead of the many.
What doesn’t sit right with me is that he was raising the money in the first place. Surely this is a massive failure by the government?
Yep, amazing bit of Tory PR / spin - convince the public that the NHS is a charity which should be funded by goodwill alone. They must be laughing all the way to their parent's trust fund....
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?
I can only assume you've just come round from a Coma and have no memory of the last 18 months.
Not so sure about labelling his daughter as a parasite, do you expect him manage the press around a simple charity gesture that snowballed, hardly gonna pull out his iPhone to answer Micheal ball or perhaps he could have managed all his social channels. It needed managing and nobody was in a better place to do it than his daughter if she made a couple of quid along the way good on her. The press manipulate far more savvy people than her, she did nothing wrong.
Why can’t it just be an old soldiers funeral ?.
well lots of old soldiers died in the last year, but I didn't hear them have a historic plane fly past, a 14 gun salute, filmed by the BBC or the coffins being carried by pallbearers from the regiment. Indeed my Uncle died recently and covid restrictions meant there were no pallbearers, he couldn't be buried in his own clothes, and the eulogy was pre-recorded so that nobody was shouting into the auditorium (except the minister who seemed to be permitted to!). It doesn't feel at though this was quite on an equal footing. i have to say when I heard the pomp that was going on I assumed it was practice run for Philip!
I'm not as cynical as the OP, and like to think his daughter was doing it for him - as a way to ensure his last years were as exciting as they could be. The media love a circus though, and the government have must be delighted by it.
I think the Army milked this as well. It's really important that the Military is seen to be policitcaly neutral. Something alarming has set in with regards how the Military is positioned in the public consciousness.
As much as this presents itself as an opportunity for many of us to stick it to the Tories, I would also lay the blame at Tony Blair's door. Not only for his pivot towards overt sentimentalism with the death of Diana but the way in which tha Army became sentimentalised during the Iraq and Afgan campaigns with the ceremonial returning of the fallen soldiers at Wooton Basset.
My father served in Aden for a bit and I'm sure he would have been contemptuous of all the plastic patriotism.
Poly,
There's a difference between cynical and sceptical. I'd like to think his Daughter was only thinking best thoughts but like many others on this thread she made me feel uncomfortable. My first reaction to the story was positive, so 'not' cynical.
As much as this presents itself as an opportunity for many of us to stick it to the Tories, I would also lay the blame at Tony Blair’s door. Not only for his pivot towards overt sentimentalism with the death of Diana but the way in which tha Army became sentimentalised during the Iraq and Afgan campaigns with the ceremonial returning of the fallen soldiers at Wooton Basset.
Princess Tony also helped facilitate the whole Brexit debacle, and the acknowledgment of the returning dead through Royal Wootton Bassett was started by several members of the Royal British Legion, who’d learned that the cortège carrying the deceased from RAF Lyneham would be passing through Wootton Bassett (as it was then), on their way to Brize Norton and decided to be a sort of honour guard on behalf of their families. It was the residents of the town, on finding out what the Legion members were doing, and being notified by the Legion when the next deceased would be coming back, turned out to offer their respects. It was the locals decision to show their respects, it wasn’t until near the end of repatriation through RAF Lyneham that it became a bigger thing, because there wouldn’t be any other opportunities for the locals to show their respects.
The big show of respect afterwards came from bikers, organised by the members of Ogri MCC, and the Royal British Legion bikers, most members of Ogri MCC are ex-and serving service personnel, and that drew in a lot more people to make a statement.
I was there, because my brother is an Ogri member, and the ride was his first time on a bike after a near fatal accident, so my presence was as much for him as anything.
What a typical thread from you miserable bastards on here. It's nothing more than it appears to be.
What a typical thread from you miserable bastards on here. It’s nothing more than it appears to be.
You don't have a monopoly on perception.
What Tom did was a nice gesture. What it became was a perfect storm for media, government and anyone else that wanted to hang anything off it. Was that because of the daughters guidance? Possibly. Are the government, and others, milking every last drop out of this for their own ends? Absolutely.
Have others done more than him, but will get not even a speck of the recognition or anything else that has happened to him? Definitely, on account of doing it at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Or rather ‘different’ as opposed to wrong. Like winning the lottery, the week after 1 person wins a 200mil jackpot, and having to share your jackpot with 132 others.
My father served in Aden for a bit and I’m sure he would have been contemptuous of all the plastic patriotism
one thing you can be absolutely assured of is that those doing all the nationalist flag-waving and pledging their hearts to the nation won’t have been within a thousand miles of a front line. Can you imagine Boris Johnson or Farage or Rees Mogg in a war zone?
They just love basking in the reflected glory, which is exactly why they’ve all been jumping on to this.
It all fits in with the ‘plucky’ narrative they’ve written for themselves from their cosy, entitled ivory towers.
Thanks for the clear up with regards Wooton Basset / REF Lyneham. At the time what struck me was the difference in the way the fallen in the Falklands War and those from the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts were treated. Especially considering that the Falklands was Soverign British territory and that Margaret Thatcher wasn't shy when it came to a bit of flag waving.
But again, I don't think the Army handles these sorts of things very well. They seem to be taking advantage of the situation as much as anyone. It's all a bit American for my typical British reserve.
Bloke raised a load of dough for the NHS - RIP.
Bloke raised a load of dough for the NHS – RIP.
I couldn't agree more.
So why all the 'Eagle Comic WW2 sepia tinted' stuff? Why not have a guard of honour of NHS staff and a fleet of ambulances?
Other than the fact they are too busy - worked to a standstill trying to cope with a pandemic mismanaged from day one by the crooks and incompetents in charge.
well lots of old soldiers died in the last year, but I didn’t hear them have a historic plane fly past, a 14 gun salute, filmed by the BBC or the coffins being carried by pallbearers from the regiment.
Some of them may have even spent the last 50 years doing charity work rather than walking up and down their patio for a week. However, they didn't capture the zeitgeist during a pandemic and it is as simple as that.
It's about emphasizing nation, service and self sacrifice, it's softening up for austerity.
The very fact that we need “NHS Charities” is a disgrace anyway.
I'm with the Germans on this, the fact that we need charities at all is a disgrace. A civilised society would fund all this type of activity through taxation not "noblesse oblige".
couldn’t agree more.
So why all the ‘Eagle Comic WW2 sepia tinted’ stuff? Why not have a guard of honour of NHS staff and a fleet of ambulances?
Other than the fact they are too busy – worked to a standstill trying to cope with a pandemic mismanaged from day one by the crooks and incompetents in charge.
Err, because the guy raised £30m and raised the spirits of a nation at a time of national crisis. I think that merits some appreciation and consideration.
Really can't see what the fuss is all about. So some elements of the British press have jumped on it as they do at every opportunity. That is hardly the fault or even original intention of Tom Moore or his family. Can't believe people are so surprised of the cynical nature of our press to sell more of their papers. Why not waffle on and criticise a multi-millionaire footballer doing good stuff to feed disadvantaged kids? You could say Rashford himself seems to have benefitted the most from his efforts. Earned himself an MBE, raised his profile from the other footballers. Can't have done his bank balance any harm and there will still be hungry underprivileged kids long after he's got bored of it.
Yes he was an ex soldier and the 'wartime spirit' has been called upon by the press to help the nation out in a different national and global crisis and Tom Moore was a great vehicle to do that. Just a good feel good story. I really can't seen anything clandestine about it.
I think the NHS staff get enough recognition. Half my family work in the NHS in various capacities and they are not asking for the recognition and find it quite embarrassing. They just want to crack on with their jobs and don't crave the attention. Can't think of anything more we can do to recognise the amazing efforts they do day in day out. Doesn't mean we can't recognise the efforts of other non-NHS people too who are making their own contribution to making the current crap we're all going through just a little bit easier to bear. And Raising £30m is an effort and a half....has anyone on here done that?
Don't like all the 'sepia nostalgia' then don't buy the papers. I've managed to avoid it but I don't buy papers (haven't a clue what some on here are waffling on about. Just an old man raising some money for charity as far as I was aware until all this guff has come up). Just some people who like to look for the bad in everything and trying to turn it into something political.
The blokes dead now, but I guess some will think that was just another cynical ploy to gee up the nationalists.
’m with the Germans on this, the fact that we need charities at all is a disgrace. A civilised society would fund all this type of activity through taxation not “noblesse oblige”.
Agree with this in principle but ironic that the Germans don't fund their health service by taxes. Its a public/private hybrid!
The very fact that we need “NHS Charities” is a disgrace anyway.
This wasn't money to fund the NHS, it was money as a thank you to the workers. See it like a very small bonus to NHS workers (as NHS don't get bonuses!)
That is hardly the fault or even original intention of Tom Moore or his family.
Of Sir Tom - maybe.
Of his family. I'm not so sure. I'm prepared to give benefit of the doubt but there is just something slightly nagging about this, so I'm waiting to be proved right or wrong depending on your viewpoint
(maybe not original intention, but opportunity spotted and now being exploited)
I think we were in tiered lockdown before Christmas so presumably in their location a foreign holiday was allowed. It was in his bucket list of places to go before he died. Do you really think that he and his family would be able to sneak off in full lock down for a foreign break if it was not allowed. This overplaying has everything to do with our press notably the BBC and not I suspect the family.
Bloody hell it’s interesting to see how the pandemic has effected everyone.
Old man gets off his arse and raises a load of money for the NHS, I missed the bit where his daughter had a gun to his head to do it.
His money has directly improved things in my local hospital for myself and other staff
People I know who were in the forces have absolute respect for him, and are not questioning what he has achieved.
Which ever government is in power the NHS will always be under funded, and which ever party is in power ‘normal’ people will not pay enough taxes to make the nhs perfect
RIP Tom Moore, you got off your bum and raised a load of money when you didn’t have to - good on you.
Ok I admit to being a bit naive here. But how has his family profiteered from the charity fund raising? How is it still being exploited by the family? Honestly not being argumentative just don’t understand how he was exploited.
By the way to those who say their family members served and don’t wear ties / blazers or talk about their experiences, I guess I’m the complete opposite of that. Pretty much as far back as we have traced our family have been serving members of the armed forces. I was born in Aldershot, I served. My mum was in the army as was my dad. He served in many wars and conflicts, some we have heard of some we haven’t. My brother recently retired from the army after 26 years service, reaching the highest rank in our family. Funnily enough he’s now a mountain bike instructor.
None of us talk about our experiences to civilians. However we all open up to other former serving members. My kids know both myself and my brother were in the army, but that’s all they know. My brother has a fairly famous picture of him in Iraq (famous in the right circles), his kids don’t know anything about it. Every November we remember our fallen comrades, some of the family wear a blazer with a regimental tie, their medals and a beret. I occasionally wear a regimental tie for work, occasionally I’ll wear a lapel pin. My mum always wears a lapel pin for my dads regiment (they lost a lot of dear friends and it’s something very special to them both).
Most soldiers, or at least the ones I’ve known, which is a fair few, we don’t join for the politics. I went to war for the people of this country. For my family and my friends. I honestly think some people on this forum need to travel past Benidorm and open their eyes.
The Lyneham / Brize homecomings, yeah it hadn’t happened before. But nor had 24 hour news. Previous conflicts were a long way away and didn’t cover the same amount of time as Afghanistan. The only really example is the Falklands were the repatriation was handled completely differently (a hell of a lot less daily air travel between the Falklands and what was happening in Afghan).
Some people are patriotic, doesn’t make them racist, loons , ideological morons or brexiteers.
I’m naive as already said. But to me it was an old man trying to raise a small amount for charity, this snowballed. He raised a lot of money.
I didn’t know the chap even though we are very local to each other. I won’t attend his funeral. But I will stop doff my cap and say RIP old fella, you did some good in bad times.
Old man gets off his arse and raises a load of money for the NHS, I missed the bit where his daughter had a gun to his head to do it.
Not saying that.
Old soldier gets off his arse to raise a lot of money for the NHS
Daughter(s) realise by doing a bit of promotion the impact can be greatly increased; campaign goes viral and then mainstream and leads to the (deserved) results for Sir Tom. I don't think anyone is saying they told him to do it.
- all good so far
I'm very very slightly sceptical about what next. That's all - remains to be seen.
[edit - and I don't even know why i'm sceptical....but I am]
This wasn’t money to fund the NHS, it was money as a thank you to the workers. See it like a very small bonus to NHS workers (as NHS don’t get bonuses!)
Same view for why this is a thing I'm afraid.
People I know who were in the forces have absolute respect for him, and are not questioning what he has achieved.
I don't think anyone here has.
What are you sceptical off? I can’t see where the family would be doing this for their own self interests?
Me personally in my little life bubble, I’d hate the attention. I just can’t get my head around what would be in it for his daughter?
I’m still confused as to how they managed a foreign holiday during lockdown.
Because it was completely legal at the time and British Airways said, "would you like to a free holiday to Barbados?".
I don't know. I said, I don't know. I also said very very slightly. Not highly sceptical, or even just sceptical.
Maybe I've just been worn down to it, and on the outside my rule of applying Hanlon's razor (or a version of) would make me absolutely accept it. But there's just something - maybe from the interview I saw a couple of days ago.
Waiting and wanting to be proved right (or wrong)
what would be in it for his daughter?
If I wanted to be a total sceptic (and this is total whataboutery) - but the authorised biography, the speaking tour about what is what like growing up with Sir Tom as your Dad, the official Sir Tom commemorative LP......
I might be sceptical but you have to be highly naive to think there are not a queue of publicists that would jump at the chance.
I'm like you - I'd hate the limelight. But TBH they have that already, it's a choice now to withdraw or not.
Yeah fair do’s re the book, but yeah I am that naive as it didn’t enter my mind.
Apart from the walking for charity not sure his life story would merit a book, But what do I know?!?
Im normally very suspicious with regards to ulterior motives, but not seeing it here. Could well be wrong, hopefully not.
Apart from the walking for charity not sure his life story would merit a book
Nor me - but I bet if they wrote it, stuck in a few pictures, it would sell by the truckload.
Good luck to him, his family and anybody who takes an interest in it. It’s not for me, all rather too saccharine I’m afraid, but nobody is forcing anybody to watch the funeral, donate money or do anything else. I just tune out when it comes on. He seemed like a decent old gent, but other than his fantastic age, didn’t seem in any other way extraordinary for someone of his generation.
Err, because the guy raised £30m and raised the spirits of a nation at a time of national crisis. I think that merits some appreciation and consideration.
Absolutely. Care to explain why it had to be WW2-themed, though?
It could have been a celebration of 75+ years of the NHS...
Can you imagine Boris Johnson or Farage or Rees Mogg in a war zone?
I am struggling to think of any other two people who would exemplify the term REMF better.
The WW2 stuff was a function of who Moore was. He organised the reunions of his wartime battalion for 60 odd years, so it was a major part of who he was. My father served in the same regiment during the war, although in different battalions, but he wasn't big on reunions etc, although thanks to Moore I now know what one of his old ties represented, but I don't recall him wearing it much.
So every old soldier who fought in WW2 gets a Dakota flyby and gun salute now?
Wow, better tell the Battle of Britain flight to order more aviation fuel....
No but the family of someone who has raised a shed load of cash, became a national figure, is likely to be offered special recognition by the successor of his former regiment and as remembering his time served was a major part of who he was, it is hardly surprising the family took up the offer.
I dunno, if it was my dad they'd be getting told to save their money and donate what they would have spent where its needed.
But that's just me.
So every old soldier who fought in WW2 gets a Dakota flyby and gun salute now?
Wow, better tell the Battle of Britain flight to order more aviation fuel….
No they didn't, because they didn't raise millions and catch the public mood in such an unplanned and totally unexpected way during a global pandemic.
Also, speaking as an old soldier possibly they, and maybe even Sir Tom himself wouldn't have asked for those things.
This is the most depressing, joyless, miserable thread I've seen on here for quite some time.
Someone does something selfless to show his appreciation for the NHS, but no more so than many others have done. Through no fault of his own and unprecedented global events he gets more recognition for it than he otherwise might. Less clever and cynical people than the STW regulars are uplifted by it. He catches the public mood. He gets a bit of smaltchz for his send off. The funeral stuff to wasn't to my taste particularly but an awful lot of the public thought it was appropriate at a time when there is little else to celebrate. Where's the harm FFS?
Yes, NHS underfunding, government shit show, brexit, gammons, yada, yada. Some valid points. None of them the fault of the gent in question, nor his family, nor the less intellectually superior folk who took some comfort from it.
The sly, unfounded insinuations about the motives of his family are particularly unpleasant.
it is hardly surprising the family took up the offer
His former regiment wasn't a squadron in the RAF, so why the Battle of Britain element?
The sly, unfounded insinuations about the motives of his family are particularly unpleasant.
They are, which is why I haven't made any.
What I object to is the festishisation of a long ago conflict into some kind of founding myth for the nation and all the jingoistic nationalist bullshit that goes along with it. And a special place in hell for those that hijack it for political means.
Fetishising a past conflict for political gain is tasteless and dangerous and the scoundrels that do it need chasing down the street in their socks.
Where’s the harm FFS?
Where do you start?
It continues / adds to the 'British exceptionalism' which does great damage to the country economically and socially due to our refusal to see our neigbours as anything other than enemies.
It continues / perpetuates the Tory wet dream that the NHS is really a charity and should be funded by goodwill / clapping rather than cash.
They are, which is why I haven’t made any.
Which is why I didn't say YOU, but others on the thread have.
What I object to is the festishisation of a long ago conflict into some kind of founding myth for the nation and all the jingoistic nationalist bullshit that goes along with it. And a special place in hell for those that hijack it for political means.
In general terms I wouldn't disagree with much of that. But I don't think that's what happened here.
It was a funeral for someone who caught the public mood in a quite unprecedented way during one of the biggest crisies the country has ever faced. The government (and I suspect ANY government in the same circumstances) and a large swathe of the public thought it appropriate to mark his passing. As part of that there was a nod to his WW2 service, which was an important aspect of who he was as a person.
It's easy to subject every single news event to forensic examination to uncover malevolent government manipulation or conspiracy. Sometimes, just sometimes there isn't any.