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Not when its a natural monopoly kerley like utilities. There is no competition
Well there is as two different operations could vie for it. I am very into nationalisation but I do see failings in it that need to be and can be fixed.
Some kinds of bigotry are more important than others eh. Imagine if JC had said anything similar to some of Phillips’ statements about Muslims. And yet…
Two Muslim Labour MPs have expressed concern over these offensive comments, yet Starmer has remained silent. Which kind of makes a mockery of Labour's anti-racism pledges.
"Zarah Sultana, the Labour MP for Coventry South, said many of Phillips’ comments “should be unequivocally condemned”. She added: “Before readmittance, the party must at the very least require a full retraction and apology. Anything less makes a mockery of the idea that the party takes Islamophobia seriously and signals contempt for our Muslim supporters.”"
I like Zarah. One of the few Labour MPs who do actually seem sincere and genuinely concerned about actual people. But Zarah has been outspoken in support for ordinary Palestinian people, so we can probably expect her to be labelled an 'anti-Semite' at some stage. Labour are being played by the divide and rule politics of the right, and seem ignorant/oblivious to this, which is deeply worrying. The less thoughtful will seize on this as an opportunity to 'prove' that Jews/Zionists/Israel 'control' the Labour party, and this will only help to deepen already chasmic divisions. In north London, people have been arrested over shouting anti-Semitic abuse from cars, in areas with Jewish communities. The polarisation of such politics is something the Labour leader needs to address, alongside the dog-whistle racism of the likes of Hodge and Burnham.
Meanwhile, Diane Abbott writes something meaningful, and it gets ignored:
https://labourlist.org/2021/06/the-government-assault-on-refugee-rights-must-not-go-unchallenged/
Where's Sir Keith on this? Oh, silent, as usual. Funny, that, for a former Human Rights lawyer...
It's almost as if, given that we're still in the grip of a pandemic, the labour leadership think that there are more important things to be talking about, of far more relevance to your average voter than impotently banging on about Palestine yet again, and instigating another round of pointless blood-letting about antisemitism
That's a pretty mad concept to get your head around, I know.
I thought you were concerned about the rise in fascism, Binners? Do you not think that a Labour party committed to fighting fascism, as is the Labour tradition, after all, should be challenging fascistic regimes such as Israel, India's Modi government, Saudi Arabia, etc? Why is it only the (lefty) backbenchers that are making any kind of noise about this?
Palestine is obviously an important issue for a lot of British Muslims. There are nearly 3 million of them, apparently. 3 million is a sizeable number. The kind of number you might need, to win a parliamentary majority. Do you not think it important that Labour try to win voters, rather than losing them?
Why is it only the (lefty) backbenchers that are making any kind of noise about this?
Because there are bigger fish to fry right now than situations thousands of miles away that the labour party can have pretty much zero impact on, whatever it does.
There are far more pressing issues to be dealt with closer to home right now, which it may be in a position to actually effect
There's also the issue of not conforming to stereotypes and voters rolling their eyes while, with the country still in the middle of a pandemic, the 'lefties' are banging on about Palestine yet again. When meanwhile back in the real (relevant) world their kids have just been sent home from school to self-isolate for another week, and they're going to have to take another unpaid week off work and possibly lose their job.
Palestine is obviously an important issue for a lot of British Muslims. There are nearly 3 million of them, apparently. 3 million is a sizeable number. The kind of number you might need, to win a parliamentary majority.
So who are they going to vote for instead? Is George Galloway going to clone himself and stand in every constituency? Maybe the Tory's, who absolutely, definitely do care an awful lot about Palestine and muslims generally?
That’s a pretty mad concept to get your head around, I know.
Well you seem to be struggling getting your head around it binners.
Starmer seems to think that issues such as anti-Semitism are so important that he is determined to deny Corbyn the Labour whip.
And Corbyn's crime? Suggesting that anti-Semitism is an exaggerated problem.
Your ability to duck and dive binners is only matched by Starmer's.
Because there are bigger fish to fry right now than situations thousands of miles away that the labour party can have pretty much zero impact on, whatever it does.
So; in the hypothetical situation where there WAS a Labour government, they'd then be in a position to have some influence over the Israel/Palestine conflict. Given that that conflict is getting increasingly nasty, and mainly driven by the Israeli regime, which the UK supports, do you not think it important to standaginast such fascistic behaviour? I thought you were concerned with fascism?
There’s also the issue of not conforming to stereotypes and voters rolling their eyes while, with the country still in the middle of a pandemic, the ‘lefties’ are banging on about Palestine yet again.
The 'lefties' have been 'banging on' about protecting the NHS, better pay and conditions for NHS workers, improved access to vaccination services, better protection for key workers, concern at the completely useless way the government has dealt with the pandemic, etc.
As well as Palestine.
Meanwhile, Andy Burnham panders to fascism by dog-whistling about asylum seekers...
The present Israeli government doesn't give flying **** what anyone thinks. I doubt they know where the UK is.
We were an international irrelevance pre-Brexit, we're completely irrelevant now. While the US continues to bankroll the Israeli military, theres little anyone can do to effect the situation.
I thought you were concerned with fascism?
I'm concerned that we have a government in this country that is behaving like a fascist state. I'd rather the labour party applied itself to fighting that, rather than a situation in Palestine it can do absolutely nothing about
Meanwhile, Andy Burnham panders to fascism by dog-whistling about asylum seekers…
Hang on a minute? Andy Burnham is a fascist now?
Erm.... ok then
The present Israeli government doesn’t give flying **** what anyone thinks. I doubt they know where the UK is.
You know that saying, 'better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt'?
That. You'd do so much better if you just stuck to stuff you actually have half a clue about. Instead of waffling on about subjects you are woefully ignorant on.
How's things down the Rose and Crown?
There are far more pressing issues to be dealt with closer to home right now
You do realise don't you that the 'irrelevant' issue of Palestine and labour's treatment of its extremely loyal muslim voters nearly lost them the Batley and Spen by-election, which if replicated across the country would have them losing dozens of seats in 'safe' metropolitan areas. I presume these seats will be replaced by other constituencies where the tory supporting jewish community will suddenly start voting labour?
How’s things down the Rose and Crown?
Aaaaaaand.... we're back onto banging on about my local pub yet again, for some utterly inexplicable reason.
The present Israeli government doesn’t give flying **** what anyone thinks. I doubt they know where the UK is.
It's hard to imagine a more ridiculous comment. I can't think of any country in the world that cares more about its international reputation than Israel.
Yes it does as it pleases but only in the knowledge that Western governments support it.
Israel has one of the most powerful and technically advanced military in the world, not a bad achievement for a country with a population the size of London's.
How do think it has achieved that?
Left to stand on its own two feet Israel would not be a viable independent state.
You do realise don’t you
He doesn't. He really doesn't.
How do think it has achieved that?
U S A
I’m concerned that we have a government in this country that is behaving like a fascist state. I’d rather the labour party applied itself to fighting that, rather than a situation in Palestine it can do absolutely nothing about
Agree. Yes the Labour party should be involved in Palestine and all the other countries that are more of a mess than the UK is (mostly from past UK meddling) but as it is not in power that is not something they have any influence on and more importantly has no importance to the majority of voters as a way to get into power to then do something about it.
Concentrate on getting into power and then do what you want once you have it.
Have you lot learnt nothing from the tories.
Lordy. So many words. So much ignorance.
This thread stands as a sort of microcosm of the labour left.
No matter what the issue being discussed is, within a couple of posts we're back on to Palestine and antisemitism yet again.
A lot of voters look at what the Labour party became under grandad and just see a sixth form protest group thats far more interested in whats going on in the middle east than whats going on in the UK
Maybe why the present leadership must sigh with weary resignation when the usual suspects start rattling on about it yet again.
It’s hard to imagine a more ridiculous comment. I can’t think of any country in the world that cares more about its international reputation than Israel.
Yes it does as it pleases but only in the knowledge that Western governments support it.
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the comment I made in the above post
While the US continues to bankroll the Israeli military, theres little anyone can do to effect the situation.
They don't give a toss what anyone outside Washington thinks as long as the ammunition for the F-16s keeps landing
grandad and just see a sixth form protest group
And we're back to talking about grandad and sixth formers.
From a man whose posts betray a remarkable level of naivety and senility.
This thread stands as a sort of microcosm of the labour left.
No matter what the issue being discussed is, within a couple of posts we’re back on to Palestine and antisemitism yet again.
Actually, the 'lefties' on here have discussed a whole range of topics, from anti-Semitism and xenophobia, to nationalisation of essential services and utilities. All you've done is attempt to belittle and abuse anyone who disagrees with you.You haven't actually 'discussed' anything. You simply post your (mostly ignorant and blinkered) opinion, then when challenged, resort to abuse and ad hominems. With a few pictures. How very grown up.
They don’t give a toss what anyone outside Washington thinks as long as the ammunition for the F-16s keeps landing
Yes they do. And the US also cares deeply what its allies, G7 partners, and other Permanent Members of the UN Security Council think.
The US's attempts under George Bush to go it alone internationally were abandoned very rapidly after the start of the second Gulf War.
Aaaaaaand…. we’re back onto banging on about my local pub yet again, for some utterly inexplicable reason.
Rod Liddle, bit of food on his tie...
It's almost as if you can't care about something whilst simultaneously caring about something else.
Labour scrape through in a by-election in an formerly safe seat with a large muslim population, one of their own MPs describes the leadership as showing 'contempt' for muslims by readmitting someone with a highly dodgy track record of statements which would never be tolerated about other groups, but apparently it's a non-issue, because..... erm....?
Weirdly you were extremely vocal about supposed anti-semitism in the Labour Party binners - and people wonder why some Muslim Labour MPs/supporters use terms like 'hierarchy of racism'.
Or perhaps AS was just a useful stick to beat people with that you don't like eh?
Also, who mentioned Palestine? Oh that's right, it was you.
This thread stands as a sort of microcosm of the labour left.
It certainly does. And you are right Binners about the UK not being able to influence what Israel does, I suppose we could stop buying weapons off them, but the reality, which is either through being uninformed or wilful ignorance from the left, is if you want the Israel/Palestinian conflict to end you need only look as far as the pro-Israeli lobby groups in and around Washington. And Hamas. Which also conveniently furthers the interests of the protagonists in the conflict.
Its a very nice position for the left to have, having what is a good set of principles, but never going beyond the comfortable protest party mentality mindset, so not having to actually do anything.
I should mention that this "infighting" in the party is playing into the hands of our adversaries, but after the total denial by the left over their part in the 2019 election defeat, which continues through their actions to this day, they will continue to ignore that as well.
So protest away. Preferably in another political party.
I should mention that this “infighting” in the party is playing into the hands of our adversaries
Oh the ironing.
I suppose we could stop buying weapons off them
Pretty sure it's mostly the other way round.
Oh the ironing.
Is that the best you've got? Actually, yes it is.
Pretty sure it’s mostly the other way round.
You are right. However, I made no mention of who sells how much of what to who in my post.
after the total denial by the left over their part in the 2019 election defeat, which continues through their actions to this day, they will continue to ignore that as well.
What about the total denial by the right over their part in the 2019 election defeat, which was far, far more significant than whatever nonsense you're citing, as it was actually real, and deliberately designed to ensure Corbyn lost, and the continued demonisation of the 'left', as exemplified by yourself, which continues to this day?
What about that?
You are aware that this whole idea of an orchestrated campaign from within the labour party to ensure the labour party lost the general election is right up there with 'the moon landings were faked', right?
Were there aliens involved too? Mossad? The CIA?
People trying to claim that the factional infighting is all from the left side of the Labour Party are comically deluded and not to be taken seriously.
The simple fact is that the 'centrists' are in charge now and despite an utterly disastrous performance by Starmer in virtually every poll, as well as several by-elections the discontent/protest from the left has been very minimal indeed especially compared to the wild hysterical smearing and directly admitted undermining campaign that went on under the previous leader. See also kicking the previous leader out of the party on totally spurious grounds.
Starmer was supposed to unite the parts and make Labour credible/electable again - he's come nowhere near achieving either, and 'the left' bogeymen have nothing to do with it at all.
Now we also have it confirmed that the supposed commitment to anti-racism was a load of BS too, but those on the left are meant to just shut up and get the flags out. It's utterly absurd.
Mandelson, a former cabinet minister under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, told an event for the Jewish Chronicle that he was actively working to bring an end to Corbyn’s leadership.
“It’s the other faction that won’t unite, not the one that more closely aligns to my own views” - around and around and around. Tory rule for the rest of our lives. Nailed on.
Yes fine kelvin but THE LEFT AREN'T IN CHARGE and haven't been for a while. And trying to argue that there is anything like the level of undermining that went on under the (more successful) previous leadership just makes you look very silly.
We were endlessly lectured about how a more professional/electable leader would wipe the floor with the Tories, how's that going?
You can only unite behind those currently in charge, or whine on incessantly about them not uniting the party (without any sense of irony). The pattern needs breaking at some point. They’ll be another leadership within 3 years… hopefully that leader will be more left leaning, but regardless, they need to lead a coalition of those on the left and the centre left… which can’t be imposed, it requires both sides to call a truce and focus on the future, it requires the public battles to end and for everyone the get behind that leader. I can’t see that happening. So… Tory rule, for the rest of our lives, nailed on.
You can only unite behind those currently in charge
He needs to be worthy of uniting behind. He's not. He's a hypocritical charmless weathervane in hock to wealthy donors and most people can see right through him. That's the main issue.
As any sports fan will tell you it's a lot easier to be united when you're winning.
You are aware that blah blah blah blah blah...
Rod Liddle; little bit of food on his jacket...
“It’s the other faction that won’t unite, not the one that more closely aligns to my own views” – around and around and around. Tory rule for the rest of our lives. Nailed on.
Which faction has the wealth and power?
Nobody remotely associated with the labour party has either
Thats the other lot
Nobody remotely associated with the labour party has either
Where to even start with this....
Why bother?
He’s a hypocritical charmless weathervane in hock to wealthy donors and most people can see right through him. That’s the main issue.
What, so they went and voted tory, right?
What about the total denial by the right over their part in the 2019 election defeat
You defeated yourselves, you chose Corbyn as leader for a start. The reality...I know, its not something a lot of you are in touch with currently, is how to learn from that defeat and change your approach, which is difficult when some of your number claim they "won the debate". Also, the focus seems to be on winning back those former red wall seats, while ignoring the fact that you will have to win tory seats as well.
And honestly, having Corbyn in charge with a background that the media could exploit...one of the greatest own goals of all time.
Which faction has the wealth and power?
Is the answer Len McCluskey?
Whatever, you can't force anyone to unite. Not sure who can bring the party together, or if it's even possible, to be honest. I have no answers.
What, so they went and voted tory, right?
Or perhaps people dont bother voting or perhaps vote for a change any change?
Most people admit Corbyn was a crap leader, and half the party hated him, and he was massively unfairly treated by the media (confirmed by actual research), but he was still significantly more popular than Starmer is now. Let that one sink in for a moment.
People know Boris is a lying **** but he comes across as authentic not just driven by focus groups and advisers. Corbyn was authentic and stood for something, regardless of how bad he was as an actual leader. Does anyone think Starmer comes across as authentic and standing for anything?
I actually think the Labour party might just be finished, or in a weird position where it turns into the opposite of what it started out as. The Tories taking much of the economic ground that Labour are too scared to touch makes Labour largely irrelevant as a party.
You defeated yourselves, you chose Corbyn as leader for a start. The reality…I know, its not something a lot of you are in touch with currently,
What happened to 'us'?
Divide et impera...
Most people admit Corbyn was a crap leader
Blair was a crap leader because he brought about the death of the traditional Labour party, lied to everyone and helped create an illegal war which resulted in genocide
Brown was crap leader because he sold all the gold, and he helped Blair
Milliband was a crap leader because he was... Milliband
And that's before we get started on the likes of Kinnock, Foot etc.
Starmer is crap because...?
Is the answer Len McCluskey?
No, it's not. Funny that, eh?
There's none so blind, as those who cannot see. Keep those blinkers on, because the reality may scare you too much.
It was a joke.
Who do you think can unite the party?
It was a joke.
Ah, right. Don't give up the day job, eh? 😉
Who do you think can unite the party?
Labour cannot be anywhere near 'united' unless the right wing neoliberal elite are removed from the party. Because as it is, you cannot have right-wing neoliberal ideals anywhere near anything truly progressive. The right wingers can go off and join the Funny Tingers, and leave the Labour party to those who do actually want to see societal change. That would be enormously helpful.
So, you're just siding with one faction in wanting rid of the other, rather than wanting the party to unite in opposition to the Tories. That's fine, but it just reinforces what I'm saying. So… Tory rule, for the rest of our lives, nailed on.
Tory rule, for the rest of our lives, nailed on.
Which is what we ended up with under Blair, and what you'll get if Labour continue in their current format anyway. What is it about that, that's so hard for you to understand?
Do you want to see societal change, or not?
Labour cannot be anywhere near ‘united’ unless the right wing neoliberal elite are removed from the party.
So when you say 'united' you actually mean 'anyone who doesn't agree with me can **** right off!'? Yeah, that'll work. Electorally successfully are usually representative of really narrow idealogical political sects. Broad churches get nowhere.
and leave the Labour party to those who do actually want to see societal change
How are they going to achieve that with the 12 members of the electorate who will actually vote for them? What you really mean is turn a political party into a sixth form gang of placard wavers. Again. Its worked well so far, hasn't it? Let's carry on ploughing that highly rewarding furrow, eh?
Good luck with that particular 'project'
You do know that to effect any change whatsoever you need to persuade enough of the electorate to actually vote for you?
Which is what we ended up with under Blair
Really?
We've been over this repeatedly on this and other threads. To compare 13 years of Nu Labour rule to what the Torys would have done had they remained in power for those 13 years is absolutely ridiculous. If you'd have had the Torys in power for that time the country would have been unrecognisably different by the end of that term.
If you do genuinely believe that ludicrous assertion to be the case then you really are living on another planet
So when you say ‘united’ you actually mean blah blah blah blah blah...
Rod Liddle; spilled his dinner down his shirt...
Does the Rose and Crown have the football match on tonight?
Bojo smashed SKS today. SKS started well but Bojo got him at the end.
"So the only difference is facemasks on public transport and you support everything else we are doing? Thats great"
Binners in the Rose and Crown with his Daily Mail. Surely he cant read the Guardian with the anti- union, anti- foreigner bollocks he comes up with on here?
So, PMQs. I can't be arsed to listen to that braying shitshow, but let me guess...
Starmer said it was irresponsible to go full balls-deep, **** everything, it is total freedom to do what the hell we like in a couple if weeks.
Johnson basically called him a girly cissy and hinted he was unpatriotic in his lack of faith in the great British bunch of nobheads public.
Am I pretty much there?
Lol! There is actually a pub called the Rose and Crown, in a place called Ramsbottom, so that bit we know is true. The rest of it? Who knows. Are they playing the football match tonight? Again, who knows. Can anyone shed any light on that matter?
Anti-union, anti-foreigner?
Eh?
Because I don’t like Len McClusky very much? You know that ‘Scouse’ isn’t a race, right? No matter what they try and claim 😂
Anyway, good to see you all back on the subject of my local boozer again. It must be a good 12 hours since you last mentioned it
Have you considered therapy for your rather unhealthy obsession?
“So the only difference is facemasks on public transport and you support everything else we are doing? Thats great”
Yup, he's just a troll. Picked on one example, and pretended that was the whole debate.
Am I pretty much there?
Pretty much. Didn't answer any questions at all, just asked Starmer pre-prepared questions (most of which Starmer had only just given the answer to in his own question, but Johnson can pretend not to have heard any of that detail... in fact, doing so is a show of strength). The Speaker pulled him up on it twice... but Johnson just ignored him and kept going (again, repeatedly brushing aside the speaker and rules of parliament is a show of strength for him).
I liked the "Johnson Variant" jibe though! That could work.
Boris now just completely ignores Starmers questions and just repeats his same pre-prepared vaccine-related soundbites
You vacillate, we vaccinate
Ad nauseam
SKS should have just picked on the mask on public transport thing rather than the whole lot. Too easy for Boris to fudge his way out.
Do you want to see societal change, or not?
You need to ask the majority of voters that question and the answer will be a clear No.
Do you think more voters vote for Tory MPs than any other party for a laugh or because they actually like what the Tories do?
May be news to you but not everyone wants the same society as you want.
SKS should have just picked on the mask on public transport thing rather than the whole lot.
Well, that's obviously what Johnson was expecting him to do, hence the pre-prepared answer that he still used as if he had.
So when you say ‘united’ you actually mean ‘anyone who doesn’t agree with me can **** right off!’? Yeah, that’ll work. Electorally successfully are usually representative of really narrow idealogical political sects. Broad churches get nowhere.
Wow, you have changed your tune binners.
Up until today you had zero tolerance of those on the left of the party and fully supported disciplinary action and expulsions. Views which you have profoundly expressed with exceptional eloquence.
When did you experience this remarkable 'road to Damascus moment'.......sometime this morning after reading Bridge's post?
Will you be back to despising the left in the Labour Party tomorrow?
Will your political somersaulting continue unabated until the end of this thread?
You think this thread will ever end?
I admire your optimism
My point is that the much despised Blair (boo hiss... IRAQ!!!) put up with the likes of Corbyn, voting against their own party at every turn, with the view that he was just a curious oddball and yet was still part of the same 'broad church' party.
'The Left' as demonstrated by Bridges post are utterly intolerant of differing viewpoints. A 'broad church' approach is anathema to them
In fact, it's their defining characteristic along with their lofty pious, sanctimonious self-righteousness (also oft demonstrated on this thread) and their absolute uncompromising conviction that they are absolutely right about everything and everyone else is wrong and thus morally inferior.
That winning combination is unlikely to tempt many into voting for them, especially if, as suggested, everyone who can be referred to as 'moderate' must be purged from the party in the name of idealogical purity.
So what's being suggested here isn't even a political party, at all. It's a protest group
Will your political somersaulting continue unabated until the end of this thread?
As a casual thread observer it seems to have turned into the “have a go at Binners” thread.
It became that a long time ago. I'm being ganged up on by lefties. Poor me.
To paraphrase Morrisey
"And now I know how Margaret Hodge felt..."
As a casual thread observer it seems to have turned into the “have a go at Binners” thread.
That is because he is not a naive ideological dreamer living in a country where he pretends that most of the people don't actually want a Tory party and must want whatever they are prescribing for them.
It's not all great though, he still relies way too much on tired images but I sometimes think he has a virus on his computer than randomly posts those.
I miss the images. They haven't been in use nearly as much as they used to be. More Python please.
and their absolute uncompromising conviction that they are absolutely right about everything and everyone else is wrong and thus morally inferior.
And yet you talk about people with half a brain and anyone with an opposing point of view as "utterly clueless".
Up until this morning I didn't have you down as a champion of the broad church approach.
I generally spare my 'utterly clueless' remarks for those truly deserving of the description, of which there are a great many.
Thats hardly my fault, is it?
Up until this morning I didn’t have you down as a champion of the broad church approach.
Oh, I've always been that, comrade. I'm just also a fan of the political darwinism where the naturally useless gravitate to the fringes (or allotments) where they belong (what Malcolm Tucker referred to as 'out by the bins'), leaving the grown-ups to get on with the important stuff
I actually hope that the present state of the Tory party is unsustainable for long as its done exactly what labour did 5 years ago and appointed absolute clowns to senior positions, based purely on their ideology, rather than any degree of competence
I miss the images. They haven’t been is use nearly as much as they used to be.
That's the problem with relentless attacks on binners, I am fully aware that this is a vague risk that he might moderate his style.
Which of course would be disastrous. As I have consistently said it is only binners input in political threads which make them lively and interesting for me.
I find most of the other posts dreary and boring.
If you’d have had the Torys in power for that time the country would have been unrecognisably different by the end of that term.
You know you cant simply announce something as fact and have it be so. The evidence really isnt clear on the matter. We can take, for example, that even Thatcher believed there should be limits on the policies being pursued if for no other reason than if they went too extreme then the opposition could utilise it as an attack line. However once new labour charged rightwards after them the new baseline was shifted hard to the right.
It is unclear whether the tories would have been able to shift it so dramatically on their own and announcing that any suggestion otherwise is deluded is frankly moronic.
‘The Left’ as demonstrated by Bridges post are utterly intolerant of differing viewpoints. A ‘broad church’ approach is anathema to them
And yet it is consistently the right of the party which engages in ideological purges.
it’s their defining characteristic along with their lofty pious, sanctimonious self-righteousness
Thank you for, as always, dedicatedly repeating the hard right attack lines.
If you think 13 years of Nu Labour looked anything like 13 years of Tory rule, in any kind of reality, you need your bumps feeling
Thank you for, as always, dedicatedly repeating the hard right attack lines.
Its hardly just the opinion of the 'hard right' by which I presume you mean everyone to the right of Dennis Skinner?
However once new labour charged rightwards after them the new baseline was shifted hard to the right.
It is unclear whether the tories would have been able to shift it so dramatically on their own ...
Yup. The Tories can only ever attack Labour from a right-wing position, for obvious reasons they can't criticise from a left-wing angle.
The further a Labour government moves to the right the further it pushes the Tories to the right.
Well I say that but we are bizarrely now risking the possibility of the Tories actually taking on occasions a more left-wing position than Labour, see corporation tax as a possible example.
‘The Left’ as demonstrated by Bridges post are utterly intolerant of differing viewpoints. A ‘broad church’ approach is anathema to them
This from the man who relentlessly attacks and bullies anyone who dares suggest that Labour should stand for something more than a slightly wet Tory party.
Have I been bullying you? Really? All of you?
U OK HUN? XX
I'm like Gripper Stebson of STW
This from the man who relentlessly attacks and bullies anyone who dares suggest that Labour should stand for something more than a slightly wet Tory party.
he really is trumplike in how he projects his own failings onto everyone he disagrees with.
Trumplike? Thats a new one.
Ooooooooo... are we going to get a list of my failings?
How frightfully exciting!!
Shall I start?
If anything, I think I'm too much of a perfectionist......
😀