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You can but I can't see it giving you much of an advantage in any job application unless the job title is "Posting Monty Python images on a forum". That reminds me, haven't seen any for a while?
You can but I can’t see it giving you much of an advantage in any job application
Not even when Richard Littlejohn decides to retire?
"Here is some of my finest STW work"
I suspect a large part of the abuse Raynor gets is due to her ability to get under the skin of tories. However to me she is another English politician not understanding scotland and making pronouncements about scotland that she has no idea how offensive they are. she is a large part of the "two cheeks of the same arse" issue with labour north of the border
she has no idea how offensive they are.
As someone who isn't easily offended I have no idea either. How offensive are they?
Well in absolute terms not much but what she says is simply incorrect and to claim that its because Scotland returns SNP mps we have a UK tory government is just wrong put that along with "never speak to the SNP" and it says that Scotlands wishes are irrelevant and does nothing to bridge the divide. This sort of thing will not attract voters north of the border to Labour indeed will drive them further away
put that along with “never speak to the SNP” and it says that Scotlands wishes are irrelevant and does nothing to bridge the divide.
TJ has it ever occured to you that much like the EU were indifferent to the wishes of the UK govt that the UK might be somewhat indifferent to what the scots want for the very same reasons? It's possibly another example of Scottish independence mirroring brexit.
But they weren’t. The UK gov shaped EU policy.
Anyway, this thread…
Kelvin are you denying that the EU saw the UK as troublemakers? Yes the UK had influence but it was a mostly negative influence and I doubt the rest of the EU were too bothered when we decided to flounce. As far as Scotland goes I reckon that whatever goodwill is left in the UK towards the scots could quickly disappear on both sides of the political spectrum as a result of their incessant whining about independence and brexit. The scots have more power and self-determination than any other region or country in the UK, and the scottish people benefit greatly from that with very little complaint from english people who don't have the benefits they have. It would be a tragedy if that situation changes and the two countries became more divided and suspicious of the other as that sort of thing isn't going to end in a good place.
It’s possibly another example of Scottish independence mirroring brexit.
Oh FFS - the two are for diametrically opposite reasons!
Jeepers man thats the attitude that pushes scotland away
Scotland goes I reckon that whatever goodwill is left in the UK towards the scots could quickly disappear on both sides of the political spectrum as a result of their incessant whining about independence and brexit.
Aye, Labour’s true colours revealed - the brand of unionism perpetrated on Scotland and Ireland by men in bowler hats that bang drums, play flutes and light bonfires on the 17th July.
as a result of their incessant whining
Jeepers man
I suspect he’s just trolling you now giving you the “argument” you paid for.
Ignore Enjoy.
Personally i'm enjoying Rayner growing into politics, a couple of years ago tories found it too easy to get her to walk into an argument or a statement that could then have them turning round acting the victim, or making her the story, she's learning to combat that in parliament and out of it.
So Starmer this morning setting out how he's going to transfer power to communities and regions (including Scotland) and all the press and twitterati want to talk about is why he's not handing it back to the EU. 🤷♂️
why he’s not handing it back to the EU
I know right? When the EU already has it!
When the EU already has it!
Has what?
The proposals include allowing Scotland to sign new treaties with the EU in devolved policy areas.
Has what?
power
kelvin
Full MemberSunak’s only tactic now seems to be use the line “union paymasters”… I think he needs to be careful drawing attention to how the two big parties are funded.
Yep. Though, it worked against Miliband- too scared to say "yeah we get money from union members, normal working british people- who do you get your money from you bought-and-paid-for little shit?"
dazh
Full MemberTJ has it ever occured to you that much like the EU were indifferent to the wishes of the UK govt that the UK might be somewhat indifferent to what the scots want for the very same reasons?
That doesn't make any sense. Scotland used to deliver Labour a nice pile of votes and seats, due largely to party incompetence north and south of the border now they don't. Scottish Labour's only goal is to convince people to vote Tory instead of SNP, and Westminster Labour just hasn't a clue but still insists on having strong opinions about it. It's a really sad irony that the only time the national party has actually sat back and let the scottish party deal with Scotland, was at the exact point the scottish party hit rock bottom. Any time they have halfway competent leadership, westminster wants to tell them what to do.
The 13 scottish tory MPs basically made it possible for Theresa May to form a government. That could have been avoided
What power?
The proposals included allowing Scotland to sign new treaties with the EU in devolved policy areas.
Yup. That's a good thing no? I'm sure TJ will be supportive..
What power?
dunno if that was in response to me but yeah let's do brexit. The EU has lost no power as a result of brexit. We have. I mean maybe we'll have more at some point in the future over trade deals but they've not happened yet. The power transfer has de facto been from us to EU. I can't see there being any more to "hand back to EU"
Insignificant. Devolved policy areas are not where we need this power. I cannot think of a devolved area where any supranational treaties are useful in any way. anyone think of one? Erasmus maybe? Trade is not devolved, energy is not devolved. Immigration is not devolved.
As to Labour in Scotland. the SNP look like a government running out of steam. Good pickings for labour there in terms of westminster seats if they would allow the scottish branch to actually produce decent policies. Although I did see a new type of attack line from Sarwar and co recently. Scots government have the "scottish child payment" labour said to put it up more. Thats the first time I have seen them using the line which I am sure would work well - " thats a decent policy but does not go far enough" rather than "SNP baaaaaaad"Labour instead are fighting with the tories over the unionist vote. They could take votes of the SNP instead but not while they carry on as they are.
If labour could actually bring themselves to say that the SNP can do good things they would also have some better attack lines to use against the tories in Westminster. In Scotland the nurses have been offered 5-11% depending on grade. If Scotland can do that why can't england? labour should be using that but will not as it means admitting the Scottish government can get things right
Lowest grade of nurses in Scotland are going to end up £800 a year better off than in England
The power transfer has de facto been from us to EU.
Interesting comment. So presumably you think the power we lost over EU policy (and the power the EU gained) is greater than the power the UK govt has over it's own population and economy? I think by any measure that's quite a stretch. Even if true I doubt most people in the UK would rather have power over EU countries than their own.
How are you quantifying this power by the way? Normally it's defined as the ability of a govt to make laws and set govt policy in a country (see Scotland for a good example). In England the UK govt has almost (it's not 100% because we are still bound by various international treaties like NATO membership etc) 100% power to do that. In the EU they were one of 28 nations. So is 1/28th power over the EU greater or less than 100% power over England (I'm not saying the UK due to devolution complicating it)?
So is 1/28th power over the EU greater or less than 100% power over England
"please compare these two made up scenarios that have never been true, and never will be"
johnx2 Free Member
What power?
dunno if that was in response to me but yeah let’s do brexit. The EU has lost no power as a result of brexit...
Sorry I thought someone was trying to set up a Labyrinth reference, but as you didn't answer with "the power of Voodoo" that obviously wasn't the case.
Sorry I thought someone was trying to set up a Labyrinth reference, but as you didn’t answer with “the power of Voodoo” that obviously wasn’t the case.
went over my head, but one of the less balls postings on the thread 🙂
I doubt most people in the UK would rather have power over EU countries than their own.
I'd rather our own was an EU country, obv as would most others now. But not going to happen for a damaging while.
Either way, UK has lost power in the world as well as in relation to EU countries.
How are you quantifying this power by the way? Normally it’s defined as the ability of a govt to make laws and set govt policy in a country
Plenty of states where government has failed can go on making laws and setting policy on paper. Power is defined by being able to achieve your desired outcomes (improved health, reduced inequalities, whatever), not just to proclaim and legislate for these.
Within our borders we see how little actual power our government has being beholden to world events. If Trump has another go round my word we'll be on our lonely o.
And then there's NI where the unionists seem to think they've not gained a right lot.
Starmer has lost my vote. It'll have to be Libdems or just not bother, I'm afraid.
Fair enough saying "we will not do this and we will not do that" is all very well, but lying to justify it? No, sorry, I'm out.
He's destroyed any credibility he may have had by saying rejoining the single market would not benefit the UK economically. It would. He knows it and anyone with any sense knows it.
If you are willing to tell porkies about the single biggest political issue of the last decade then what else?
You missed out the words “now” and “at this stage”. If you want the UK to join the SM this decade, you are right out of luck. No vote will give you that. The choices are between divergence or alignment. For the sake of NI and all our futures I’d choose the later.
Yep. Though, it worked against Miliband- too scared to say “yeah we get money from union members, normal working british people- who do you get your money from you bought-and-paid-for little shit?”
Please one day somebody say this!
No vote will give you that.
No point in voting, then. You've sort of confirmed it for me.
If Starmer pulls off the 2016/19 trick of treating voters with disdain then good luck to him, but I'm not voting for someone who debases himself by making stupid comments like I mentioned above.
🤷♂️
The UK needs a decade of convergence and agreeing (and honouring) closer agreements with the EU before talk of being “in” the single market means anything. Any politician selling you SM or CU for whole UK as a quick and easy win is lying to you. There is a reason that stopping the UK leaving the EU was important… the damage is going to take decades to repair. The longer the current Tories stay in power, pushing divergence, the worse things are going to get before the ship starts to do it’s very slow change of course.
No point in voting, then. You’ve sort of confirmed it for me.
If Starmer pulls off the 2016/19 trick of treating voters with disdain then good luck to him, but I’m not voting for someone who debases himself by making stupid comments like I mentioned above.
^^
The price of righteousness and indulging in pique is more tory government.
Starmer has lost my vote. It’ll have to be Libdems or just not bother, I’m afraid.
By not voting against the tories you're voting for them. It's as simple as that.
He'll dig a bigger hole the longer he pretends to certain demographics that their choice in 2016 was not colossally stupid.
he pretends to certain demographics that their choice in 2016 was not colossally stupid.
It was stupid, obv, but I can't see any politician ever calling the folks they want to vote for them stupid. And in this case it would just make them dig in harder.
I hope you're in a Tory/lib marginal.
And in this case it would just make them dig in harder.
Why in this particular case? And at what point do you finally confront them with it?
I hope you’re in a Tory/lib marginal.
Nope.
It would be a shame if you did rule out voting for Labour in a Tory/Labour marginal… I think that would be counter productive to your aims… but you only get one vote… it’s not like this forum where you can have your say many times, over and over, under many different names.
Nope.
Then you’re exactly the same as the people who voted for brexit thinking it would make them better off. A turkey voting for xmas.
Gobble gobble.
Just to provide a reality check this is an opinion poll carried out at the weekend:
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-4-december-2022/
Like all the opinion polls of the last couple of months or so it shows an easy general election victory for Labour with a 15+30% lead over the Tories, and the LibDems struggling to manage to get the 12% share of the vote they received last general election.
In fact at least 95% of opinion polls show the LibDems unable to reach 12%.
It is now all but a forgone conclusion that Labour will win the next general election, the only question is how huge
will their majority be.
The only way I can possibly see Labour screwing up now is if they do something incredibly daft and adopt LibDem EU policy.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/liberal-democrat-rejoining-eu-policy/
Which we all know was a vote loser that cost the LibDems a lot of support at the last general election, and appears not to make the LibDems any more popular now.
Well, if it is in the bag, then no one needs to worry about my vote.
I don't need to worry about vote as the tory ****er mp will get 60% just as he has for the last 25 years. He even managed it in 1997.
Well, if it is in the bag, then no one needs to worry about my vote.
Yup, nothing the Tories are doing or have done in recent months, including changing their leader twice, appears to be having any effect on the likely outcome of the next general election.
All opinion polls are consistently, without exception, showing huge Labour leads far beyond any recognised margin of error.
Although I don't do crystal ball gazing predictions I expect that if there was a general election now the Labour lead would narrow down to something like 45% Labour to 30% Tory, which would give Starmer a huge majority.
So now is a great time to be self-indulgent with your voting ...... LibDem, Official Monster Raving Loony Party, whatever.
Well, if it is in the bag, then no one needs to worry about my vote.
Every vote is needed to get rid of the tories. If you live in a tory/labour seat then any vote other than labour helps the tories and makes your wish for a less damaging brexit and greater alignment with Europe less likely. You know that though don't you? And still you don't care about your own interests and more importantly the interests of millions who are suffering at the hands of the tories. Selfishness on another level, have a word with yourself.