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There’s a thin line between directly objecting to the government and giving people the belief to abandon things likes mask wearing and social distancing.
There really isn't. Also if anyone is giving people the belief to abandon those things then it's the government so opposition may actually help
Centrists such as Freedland are culpable too for where we are for the constant baying of personality to its readership. These columnist idiots (Rawnsley, Toynbee) certainly helped Boris in his mission. And yet take no responsibility for where we are now.
Come the glorious revolution, comrade, they'll be off to the re-education camps to learn the error of their ways.
And subsidise Lens expense account?
No thanks
So it’s sniping from the sidelines. A tactic you employed for many years for Labour.
Back in the 90's I worked on the unionised chemical plants on Merseyside. I've met more than enough of the Len McClusky's of this world, thanks very much.
I've seen how they all operate. They're all the *ing same. Little Derek Hattons. Gobshites. Spouting revolutionary socialist rhetoric to the terminally gullible, drunk on their own perceived power, while lining their own pockets.
Does Lens lifestyle look very 'socialist' to you? Some are very much more equal than others, eh, comrade? Len McClusky doesn't give flying * about anyone other than Len McClusky.
He's squatted at the top of the labour party for far too many years having far too much influence, with far too little accountability (5.5% of the Unite membership - some 'mandate', eh?).
I think it'll do Starmer the world of good, in the eyes of the vast majority of the electorate, to be condemned by the likes of Len and Jeremy, who they always saw as a totally unelectable 'loony' lefty rabble.
I've seen that the Corbynite lefties have been tweeting away #Starmerout and other nonsense this week in their little echo chambers. All that actually does is underline their irrelevance and their welcome return to the 70's political cul-de-sac from which they were allowed to temporarily emerge.
Meanwhile, the grown ups are back in charge of the labour party and are busy trying to repair the damage these idiots did and make the party electable again.
That won't happen overnight and I think they're doing a pretty good job. And you can see that the Tory's do too. And thats what matters. A laour government now looks like a serious possibility. It certainly didn't last December, did it? I call that progress
Back in the 90’s I worked on the unionised chemical plants on Merseyside. I’ve met more than enough of the Len McClusky’s of this world, thanks very much.
When you were working in industry did you stand for union elections and campaign for alternative leadership?
When you were working in industry did you stand for union elections and campaign for alternative leadership?
Binners' CV may or may not warrant a thread of its own. This thread is about the evidently competent starmer.
I was in my early 20's. Union reform wasn't at the top of my list of priorities at the time, no. Getting the hell out of dodge into a saner profession very definitely was.
Like most people on the sites, we just accepted that the Len mcClusky's of this world were just a fact of life that you couldn't do much about. Like the Tory party. Or herpes
Len mcluskey distancing himself from Starmer is just what's needed, Starmer just got more electable
Peston last night had a good polling stat : 75% of red wall switchers still back Johnson over Starmer
Which sucks for Starmer, but at the same time 25% now do back him, some of those seats were very close too.
Those seats are very close indeed. My own constituency went Tory. There was a recount and our new Tory MP sits on a whacking great majority of 100 votes. Its not going to take much of a swing for that to return to labour. Particularly given how rapidly our new Borisite is alienating his constituents
What we have to remember though, is that 'normal' politics is on hold during the pandemic.
It's going to be back with a vengeance in January when the land of milk and honey promised by Boris and his merry band of Brexiteers turns into the reality of a no deal crash out, with all the economic pain that will entail. It's the 'red wall' seats that will be hit hardest.
So much for 'levelling up'
I'd be interested to see how Starmer is cutting through to more affluent marginal seats in the south east, with Tory MPs sat on slim majorities, where the idea of voting for someone like Corbyn was simply unimaginable to most voters.
The overall polling would suggest he's making quite an impact there.
I see the Lib Dem Guardian's sad obsession with Len McCluskey has done its job.
Peston last night had a good polling stat : 75% of red wall switchers still back Johnson over Starmer
Hardly a surprise that the northern idiots haven't changed their mind. As they proved in the 2019 election, they struggle to use their few braincells to see whats in their best interests and are far happier with someone like Boris pulling on their bigoted heartstrings. f*** 'em!
I was in my early 20’s. Union reform wasn’t at the top of my list of priorities at the time, no.
So you sniped from the sidelines while doing absolutely nothing about it. How surprising.
Look, I'm no fan of McCluskey, but:
i) Most of his members either voted for him or weren't bothered either way.
ii) He's reiterated his union's support for the Labour party and its continued affiliation
iii) He's retiring next year
I see the Lib Dem Guardian’s sad obsession with Len McCluskey has done its job.
Yeah, we're all just brainwashed drones, capitalist lackeys, totally incapable of independent thought, who need our opinions spoon-feeding to us by the Media.
That statement represents exactly the kind of pious, patronising, condescending, superior drivel that most people find so off-putting about a lot of those on the left. Jeremy Corbyn was the living sanctimonious embodiment of it.
If you don't see the wisdom of my superior arguments, as I'm obviously right about everything, then thats because you're clearly thick and gullible.
Anyway... It would have been the Rake hillclimb this weekend. If you fancy coming riding it anyway I can be at the beer garden at the top with a pint, you bloody Marxist!! 😀
those who decry Starmer for not being radical enough and / or for not putting policy out there yet have you read this?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/04/we-have-a-mountain-to-climb-keir-starmer-on-winning-the-next-election
"He thinks that “after the first six months, people feel we’ve taken an important step on that journey and that we’re now climbing the mountain.” So now, he says: “We are moving to a new phase.” This will involve answering the question: “What’s our positive vision for the country? And I mean vision; I don’t mean policy. Four years from an election, we’re not setting out policy. Vision. The vision of the country we want Britain to be. That’s the next six months.”
Yeah, we’re all just brainwashed drones, capitalist lackeys, totally incapable of independent thought, who need our opinions spoon-feeding to us by the Media.
You're inferring way too much there. My simple point was that the guardian have a habit of stoking labour divisions, and in particular love a bit of gossip about Len, when everyone's looking in the other direction. No one outside the sad, self-obsessed and infantile bubble of internal labour politics gives a shit about what Len does or says, so why does the Guardian keep drawing attention to him?
Why do they keep drawing attention to him?
Len is a shamelessly ego-crazed narcissist. He never misses a chance to get his stupid gurning mug on the telly or all over social media. How did he announce the latest move? With a big interview on Newsnight, following a 2 page interview in the Observer.
Nobody draws more attention to Len McClusky than Len ****ing McClusky.
He'd turn up for the opening of an envelope
Anyway… It would have been the Rake hillclimb this weekend. If you fancy coming riding it anyway I can be at the beer garden at the top with a pint, you bloody Marxist!!
Subject to government shut down of pubs that's likely to be announced
They'll shut them on Monday but announce it today. The whole country is going to spend the weekend getting absolutely leathered
Anyway… It would have been the Rake hillclimb this weekend. If you fancy coming riding it anyway I can be at the beer garden at the top with a pint, you bloody Marxist!! 😀
I was planning on getting out on the roadie this weekend, let me see what the Mrs has planned for me.
Subject to government shut down of pubs that’s likely to be announced
Sunday is the last day to for a proper piss-up isn't it?
It's looking that way. Well I would have been spending the afternoon in the beer garden of the Shoulder anyway, as the Hillclimb was on, so why change the habit of the last ten years.
It was 2 years ago when you rode it and I had a pint waiting for you at the top. A pretty respectable time too.
Why do they keep drawing attention to him?
Because it's clickbait for people like you.
Because it’s clickbait for people like you.
Says the man who sole contribution to political threads is literally just posting sad personal responses to binners.
Says the man who sole contribution to political threads is literally just posting sad personal responses to binners.
Always happy to help STW with its advertising revenue.
Typical capitalist response
That statement represents exactly the kind of pious, patronising, condescending, superior drivel that most people find so off-putting about a lot of those on the left. Jeremy Corbyn was the living sanctimonious embodiment of it.
Seen it all before. as long as you remain a 'pet' of the left, they will shower you with love and understanding for your struggle, take charge of your own destiny, however right or wrong that decision turns out to be(red wall tories for instance) then you are to be mocked and abused.
You only need to look at places like the middle east to see this in action, oppressed by dictators= we're with you in your struggle brothers, take up arms against those dictators = you are now instruments of the capitalist west and therefore dead to us.
Typical capitalist response
Insightful.
“What’s our positive vision for the country? And I mean vision; I don’t mean policy. Four years from an election, we’re not setting out policy. Vision. The vision of the country we want Britain to be. That’s the next six months.”
It really shouldn't take 6 months to do a vision statement, get the senior members of the shadow cabinet together and thrash it out in an afternoon. Then start pushing It all over social media and reference it every time you
And although I can see why an opposition wouldn't want to lay out all the policies (because the other party(ies) just nick them) they should identify the one policy that is kryptonite to the Tories (hint, it's electoral reform, they are sh*t scared of the idea of not having fptp because all the other biases are at risk)
That statement represents exactly the kind of pious, patronising, condescending, superior drivel that most people find so off-putting about a lot of those on the left
Says the person who trots out "sixth form", "grown ups now in charge" and so on. Mr Irony doesnt pay you many visits does he?
Getting back to Starmer. Nice to see in reaction to the tories not providing evidence he is not going to do anything so radical as vote against the government until they provide something more convincing.
evening comrade!
Mr Irony doesnt pay you many visits does he?
That’s quite sexist
he is not going to do anything so radical as vote against the government
Is that a vote that would prevent the government from acting to introduce measures quickly if the figure go upwards fast in the next few weeks? If so... there is no way the Labour party needs "these deaths are because the opposition stand in the way of the emergency measures" thrown at their feet.
The vision of the country we want Britain to be. That’s the next six months.”
Well that would be marvelous but in the meantime what I want to see from Starmer is less of the the forensic lawyer persona and to show a bit of passion. I can't believe I'm saying this but Ed Milliband showed more passion doing his turn as stand-in at Prime minister's Questions than Starmer has showed in his whole tenure as Leader of the Opposition so far.
Johnson shows passion. Starmer is too dull to get that kind of fake boosterism to work. He needs to keep on being him… and hope the country gets wise to that nonsense… or more likely just get Labour excepted as a potential government ready for the next leader.
Milliband showed more passion doing his turn as stand-in at Prime minister’s Questions than Starmer has showed in his whole tenure as Leader of the Opposition so far.
Miliband, god bless him, excited no one as leader though, did he? He’s doing great in his new job though. A minister in waiting… no own believed in him as a potential PM though, did they? Just me?
Did you read the Guardian article?
First thing is to show competence and to expose Johnsons incompetence. Done
Next step is to hammer them for the mistakes made while not giving the tory press any ammo. A shift of emphasis and one that is working well
These things cannot be accomplished overnight in a single hit - its takes months
later comes the positive vision and right before the election comes policies to suit the time we find ourselves in
Starmer has the route to power mapped out and so far is doing IMO a fantastic job. Just needs to find something to make it possible to vote labour in Scotland again for me to vote for them and thats going to be a big step and perhaps one beyond Starmer.
Miliband, god bless him, excited no one as leader though, did he?
That's my point. He still appeared more animated and passionate than Starmer who comes across like a stuffed shirt.
Starmer is too dull to get that kind of fake boosterism to work.
I don't want fake boosterism I want him to show a bit, just a bit, of real passion. Johnson's killed more British civilians than Hitler managed to. I would have thought that might be worth getting emotional about.
You want a performance. I don’t think he can deliver that, even if now was the time. If he tries to win over people that way, he’s doomed to fail. What you want is someone like Lammy as leader. So do I. Not going to happen right now… making Labour a party of government (in the eyes of the voters) requires something quite different to that kind of passionate outpouring.
Starmer is providing good, calm leadership and I pretty much agree with what TJ said. I think that him and Raynor provide a good balance at the head of the party. After Corbyn (who I don't dislike btw, I just don't think he was a leader) I think that Labour are back on track.
I have no time for Raynor. Dimwitted and a political liability
I can’t see why anyone would want some kind of ‘performer’ at the moment. When you look at the sorry state of the great performer and court jester himself.
Not looking good, is he? Even he seems to realise that last orders has been called on that tired routine.
As the polls are showing, the country is looking for some sober, competent leadership.
The contrast between Starmer and Johnson grows more pronounced by the day
This may surprise some, but I completely agree with TJ on Starmer. Still sceptical on the policy front, and I have no idea why he’s allowing himself to be dragged into pointless internecine battles, but so far in general you can’t complain. Unless you’re a #starmerout nutter that is. They’re a tiny minority though so I don’t know why anyone is paying much attention to them. Same goes for Len.
You want a performance.
Read my posts again. I never said I wanted a performance. I want someone to show genuine anger, passion and leadership and I'm not getting that from Starmer.
You want a show of anger, so do I… but Starmer has to win over voters who see Labour as shouty angry lefty protestors, rather than an alternative government. I find him dull and lacking in charisma… but he has to win people over to the idea of voting Labour who haven’t done so in a long time. He’s doing a good job of that in a situation full of elephant traps (COVID and Brexit), and he keeps avoiding the traps set for him, much to the annoyance of the Conservatives, and a noisy few who think that he shouldn’t be doing that job, and should be selling the idea of upturning capitalism from behind a barricade instead. Your description of him is accurate I feel… but currently it plays in his favour, I hope.
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tjagain
Full MemberI have no time for Raynor. Dimwitted and a political liability
What makes you think she’s dim witted? What has she done to make you think that?
Johnson shows passion
No, he doesn't. Talking loudly and making pointless use of random Latin phrases is windbaggery; it clearly continues to take in the hard of thinking but the rest of us stopped believing that shtick some time ago.
TJ - as for your comment
I have no time for Raynor. Dimwitted and a political liability
that needs some explanation; you are miles off the mark.
Don't confuse your personal view with the political reality.
Edit - confused her a bit with Nandy - another who made pronouncements on Scotland based in ignorance that were far worse but Raynor has done the same - made announcements on Scotland based in complete ignorance that show she has no understanding of the reality up here. Patronising and hectoring and untrue
So whilst conflating Nandy and Raynor was stupid of me and Raymor was not as bad as Nandy she still showed poor political judgement and ignorance from her comments
Johnson shows passion
All Johnson shows is bullshit. Wd can all say how great it is going to be in 10 years time (when he is nothing to do with it anyway) but that is not passion that is just trying to sell a dream while he is actually responsible for most of the nightmare (Brexit and Covid response)
Read my posts again. I never said I wanted a performance. I want someone to show genuine anger, passion and leadership and I’m not getting that from Starmer.
That may well be what you want, but it’s what we all want that matters.
Outside of ‘some’ on the left, I’m not really seeing evidence that the electorate, on balance, wants a shouty Starmer. A shouty Starmer for all I know could just as easily weaken the opposition not give it credibility.
Is there any actual reliable canvassing on what the electorate want from the oppositions level of “anger”? Or as someone claimed above, does the electorate actually now want serious competence? I’ve no idea so they are questions not statements.
I think I have seen anger from Starmer, he's just able to express it calmly (certainly far more so than I have the EI to do!)
I can appreciate this may not look angry enough at times, but I like the huge gulf between him and BJ and think it plays well on balance.
As has been said above by others, SKS and Labour may not be everything I want, but what I want must be tempered so that enough people are happy with what's actually on offer that they can vote Labour.
I think that writing people off purely for their views on Scotland and the union is mirroring their perceived narrow-mindedness. I don't think that their is anyone who's views I agree with without reservation.
Starmer is pragmatic in his approach. He researches his facts, understands the reality, and deconstructs the shabby shambles week on week. Raynor and others, dare I even say Milliband?, will provide a bit of fire. As I said, I think it's a good balance.
coyote - its not that I disagree with their views. Its that she spouted nonsense based on ignorance. Being prepared to make claims about something you are ignorant of is not a good trait in a politician. Its a political liability and shows the lack of understanding and political nous.
I despair for the labour party in Scotland but cant based on ignorance just makes it worse. English politicians spouting nonsense abut Scotland puts folk off voting for their party in Scotland.
Fair point.
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1314501231310708738?s=19
You do wonder how bad the Tories have to get...
I can appreciate this may not look angry enough at times, but I like the huge gulf between him and BJ and think it plays well on balance.
Don't forget the previous Labour incumbent's propensity for faux anger. At PMQ's every single week, after a period of incoherent rambling, Jezza would build-up to his ten-second outburst of righteous indignation, delivered as a shouty rant.
This would then be tweeted out to the sixth form faithful who would all cream their silkies and retweet to their echo chambers with embarrassingly cooing comments about how great grandad was/is and some old cobblers about being principled and honest
The trouble was that when that same clip was shown to normal, grown-up voters, their initial thoughts were 'just look at that nutter, shouting some spittle-flecked rant. He looks like the looney on the bus. What is he even on about?'
Not a good look.
It got to the point that, as he started to deliver his achingly predictable weekly tirade, the Tory benches would all loudly cheer it
They knew how effective angry ranting was and how it was perceived by your average voter.
Now its Boris who ends up resorting to getting all shouty, and he's doing so because Starmer is getting under his skin by humiliating him by pointing out his amateurish, ill-prepared manner
I don't know if you've noticed but when Boris loses it and starts shouting, if you look at Starmer he doesn't even look at him. He looks down and starts writing notes, leaving him ranting. This obviously really, really annoys him even more.
Another good set piece speech from Starmer putting the boot into Johnson and co
Doing nicely on the second part of his long game. He now is seen as competent so now he needs to show Johnson and co as incompetent and to get this firmly fixed in the national psyche.
No longer is Johnson the loveable rogue, he is the incompetent bumbling buffoon. PUblic image matters unfortunately in politics and Starmer is doing a great job of improving his image whilst destroying Johnsons
I think the opposite. I feel Starmer comes across as a weak bleater with no ideas of his own, simply a tactic of disagreeing with everything the Tories do regardless.
And he’s a leftie. And you don’t think much of any of them. What would a Labour leader need to do to win you over, and is there any Labour politician that could do that? Starmer has to win people back to Labour… but there will always be people that will never be won over.
What’s interesting is that both of the following memes are in full flow at the moment…
“All Starmer does is back the government”
“All Starmer does is oppose the government”
But both memes are prevalent only in groups desperate for him to fail from the start.
He’s doing better than I expected at this point, but he’s walking a slack line that he could fall from at speed at any time… …he needs to stay attuned to the worries of people he needs to win over, not the groups hoping that he trips up.
I think the opposite. I feel Starmer comes across as a weak bleater with no ideas of his own, simply a tactic of disagreeing with everything the Tories do regardless.
You do realise hes the opposition right? He's backed the tories a few times when it made sense but its not his to back them its his job to point out what they are doing wrong and hold them account.
Boris wants to tell the country all Keir wants to do is disagree and hes not doing enough support what the gov are doing. they did the same to Ed called him dull, boring and depressing.
I fully understand he is the opposition and I really really hoped he would prove to be a worthy opposition to the Tories because it is required. But he's just turned out to be a bleater and just seems weak. trotting out the same old "we don't agree, you're utterly rubbish blah blah blah"
He fails to put forward great or meaningful alternatives which is what a great Labour leader should do and would win me over. Not to Labour, just to the idea that there is a worthy opponent across the table from Boris.
Labour under Blair was better, just with a slimy greasy underhanded self serving deceitful ****er at the helm.
As an aside lol.
you could add lazy ****less racist **** and you would have described the current "captain".
I haven't seen Starmer really disagree with the Government at all.
He tweaks their output every now and again but he didn't do much opposing on Schools and Unis. He's had a little go at furlough but offered no ideas of his/their own. Mentioned exit strategy a few times.
I'm not seeing this leftie thing either in any way shape or form. I'm seeing an establishment leader currently.
What's with the hard-on at PMQs - Johnson was always a bumbling idiot before PM it didn't work against him when being elected.
Only the Guardian and a few on here seem to thing PMQs is evidence of winning something or other.
When Labour start reframing the debate about Covid with their own ideas then they might look like an opposition.
I fully understand he is the opposition and I really really hoped he would prove to be a worthy opposition to the Tories because it is required. But he’s just turned out to be a bleater and just seems weak. trotting out the same old “we don’t agree, you’re utterly rubbish blah blah blah”
He fails to put forward great or meaningful alternatives which is what a great Labour leader should do and would win me over. Not to Labour, just to the idea that there is a worthy opponent across the table from Boris.
It's not you he needs to win over, it's people who've voted labour in the past and need convincing to do so again.
. He now is seen as competent
Source?
No longer is Johnson the loveable rogue, he is the incompetent bumbling buffoon.
It doesn't matter, though us Londoners could have told the country that and saved the rest of you a lot of trouble.
He fails to put forward great or meaningful alternatives which is what a great Labour leader should do and would win me over.
Alternatives don't really matter at this point.
When Labour start reframing the debate about Covid with their own ideas then they might look like an opposition.
Which would be pretty meaningless at this point.
The reality is we have four more years of this, and once the withdrawal agreement expires at the end of this year. its going to get far, far worse. Boris's only value at this point is he is a very easy target to attack, something the tory backbenchers have cottoned onto. It's the dynamic duo behind Boris, the two who f*cked the education system in 2014 that have to be dealt with.
There's not much point Starmer pointing out meaningful alternatives with four years to go, covid will pass, its legacy and how the tories deal with it in the next few years will be the abundant hunting ground for Labour, the tories are already showing what their 'policies' on that front are going to be.
Someone spoke about Blair...he had media allies in the form of news international, there are no media allies this time.
If and when Labour start really gaining the upper hand at the time when it actually matters, the opposition will get far, far nastier...the trump playbook will be used.
I also got to stop saying the tory party, as they are not anymore...the are the English national party.
They aren't though are they ?
They aren’t though are they ?
They're much worse than that. The current tory party represent the last act of the moneyed elite doing everything they can to grasp what they can from a collapsing economy and society. They've abandoned any pretence of acting in the interests of the country at large, or being a competent government, and instead are pursuing a scorched earth policy to make as much money as they can for themselves and their friends before it all goes tits up thanks to brexit and covid. And then they'll be off into the sunset to spend the next 30 years on a beach while every one else struggles to keep their heads above water. They are a venal, corrupt, amoral, grasping bunch of c****, and anyone who supports them should have a long hard look in the mirror.
They aren’t though are they ?
They really are. They’re just UKIP without Farage. Priti Patels attitude to immigration actually makes UKIP look quite cuddly.
We have a government of nasty nationalist populists, with a sideline in disaster capitalism. This isn’t a Tory party in any recognisable historical context
Anyway... back on topic. There’s now massive anger in the north to how we’re being treated. I’m interested how much of the political opposition is now being coordinated with Labour Central office
Andy Burnham is playing a blinder
They aren’t though are they ?
That comment says more about you than anything.
There’s not much point Starmer pointing out meaningful alternatives
So we suffer the venal incompetence of this government presiding over life and death decisions and wait for four years before raising a protest? Blimey, enough good suggestions, based on verifiable data, have come from Independent Sage which could be employed to meaningfully oppose with practical constructive outcomes. IndieSage also has (a somewhat more deserving) 'Sir', they're hardly a bunch of anarchists.
He's probably lost interest by now but Andy Burnham would be a much more inspiring leader of Labour than Starmer, IMO. I've met him and heard him speak in person and he was impressive.
So we suffer the venal incompetence of this government presiding over life and death decisions and wait for four years before raising a protest?
Short of a revolution, we're stuck with it. These lot have 'taken back control'. They're not about to surrender it now, no matter how many die
Nah, they would have to make concessions, however it was dressed up, under pressure (which they're not from Starmer) of events. They will have countless little schemes in the hope of keeping people from striking or off the streets and blaming others for their own misdeeds.
Andy Burnham is forever tainted by playing the race card in the Mayoral election and is no leader. He is a wethervane politician.
sorry - IMO he would have been a disaster. anyone prepared to play the race card is unacceptable.
So we suffer the venal incompetence of this government presiding over life and death decisions and wait for four years before raising a protest?
Have you not noticed that Starmer and the mayors are ramping up the pressure on Johnson? today in the papers marks IMO a serious ramp up of criticism and of offering alternatives. they have already forced some movement towards getting test and trace into local public health bodies
Andy Burnham is forever tainted by playing the race card in the Mayoral election and is no leader.
I don't necessarily agree with what he said but I don't think it was quite how it was portrayed. I think he is/was genuinely trying to listen to what his constituents were getting upset about, and not just dismiss them all as racists. I struggle with that tbh but I don't think it was as cynical as you suggest.
Also, I'm broadly in favour of free movement and certainly in favour of staying in the EU but let's not pretend immigration is issue/consequence-free.
All irrelevant now anyway. I think Burnham would have been much more popular in the so called red wall though.
but let’s not pretend immigration is issue/consequence-free.
Nope - its almost 100% positive with no real downsides
sorry IMO it was a very cynical playing of the race card and quite disgraceful
That comment says more about you than anything.
Yeh I get that a lot on this forum. Hope the superiority makes your Sunday better for you.
Everyone's woes are caused by a Tory somewhere, doing something.
Thats why they blitzed Labour, and will likely do it again if weak boy stays leader.
They one by control of the press and media and our crap electoral system. Less than half the population voted for them
lol
lol
Very odd because unless you're very rich, a large landowner or CEO/director of a large business then the tories are almost certainly the wrong party to represent your interests. The reason they win is becausee a significant proportion of the electorate are too stupid to identify what is in their best interests, or are too blinded by their prejudices to look beyond the dog whistle issues.
Or fooled by the constant propaganda
Yeh I get that a lot on this forum. Hope the superiority makes your Sunday better for you.
Thanks but it is not just Sunday, I care about the plight of others every day of the week. Something the tory doesn't have to bother with.
Good answer kerley
Same as on the scottish thread - if you don't care about others you do not see the good lefties do
The 2020 Tories represent virtually nothing that the 80s/90s/noughties Tories did.
They have been parasitised by a populist nationalist movement which is designed to appeal to the hard of thinking whilst actually enabling a last-chance heist on a country in long term decline.
The job of any responsible UK government was to arrest that decline as much as possible by selling off the family silver as slowly as possible for as high a price as possible. Unfortunately the 2016 barely disguised racist/xenophobic tantrum 'referendum result' ****ed all notions of sense and enabled these crooks to take their opportunity. And all the while they are laughing behind their hands and in private at the ordinary people who vote for them. It is a joke that really never wears thin for them.