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-personally I think were seeing the anti-tory vote willing to lend their votes to any party that opposes them
old bexley doesnt support that does it?
A seat that with the subdued tory turnout Labour could have won in the same ways the lib dems did.
Starmer doubtedly wants people to think that Labour losing and coming third in the North Shropshire by-election was all part of a cunning plan of his.
However the reality is far more likely that Labour were completely incapable of mounting an effective campaign in the by-election.
The North Shropshire Labour candidate in the last three general elections secured for Labour two or three times more votes than the LibDems. However he was barred from standing even for the selection process on trumped charges of anti-Semitism (he once wore a badge with the Palestinian flag on it) Of course the real reason was that he wasn't a Blairite right-winger.
So instead a candidate which met with Starmer's approval was imposed and the by-election campaign was led by the party’s governing body the NEC.
The problem with pissing off your own members and waging civil war is that it has consequences, including destroying morale and struggling to find foot soldiers to do the essential election work.
Starmer would have loved to have won North Shropshire, the idea that he wanted the LibDems to win is nonsense, and if it were true anyway he should immediately resign his position as leader of the party.
And only a few months ago the instantly forgettable leader of the LibDems Ed Davey made it absolutely clear that he would not entertain the idea of a 'progressive alliance'.
Starmer would have loved to have won North Shropshire
Absolutely no chance. Under any Labour leader. Anyone who knows the area knows that.
And only a few months ago the instantly forgettable leader of the LibDems Ed Davey made it absolutely clear that he would not entertain the idea of a ‘progressive alliance’
You best sit down. I’ve got some news for you that might shock you…
Brace yourself…
Sometimes what politicians say in public and what they then go on to do aren’t necessarily the same thing.
I know! I spilt my Earl grey all over my new petticoat when somebody told me, I was so taken aback. Mother had to fetch the smelling salts
Absolutely no chance. Under any Labour leader. Anyone who knows the area knows that.
Lets take a quick look at some numbers shall we?
Tory vote 2021 12,032
Labour vote 2019 12,495
Labour vote 2017 17,287
So please explain your working without simply announcing that you are right.
At an actual election then yes probably not but this was eminently winnable for Labour as indeed was the Old Bexley seat.
In both cases though Starmer led Labour to a crashing defeat.
Err....
Starmer would have loved to have won North Shropshire
Absolutely no chance.
He would have been gutted if Labour had won?
If you mean that Labour stood absolutely no chance of winning that is precisely what I am saying.
It is nonsense to suggest that Labour didn't want to win, they knew that they didn't stand a chance.
There was no deal with the LibDems and if there was likely to be one in the future then vague overtures from its leader would be expected, whatever someone told binners whilst he was drinking Earl Grey wearing a petticoat.
In both cases though Starmer led Labour to a crashing defeat.
A party can't win elections when it's engaged in civil war.
The Labour Party is the party that hates itself. Starmer hated the candidate who in the last three general elections secured second place for Labour in a constituency which everyone agrees is not natural Labour territory.
The Labour Party is the party that hates itself.
The good news is that the Tories are catching you up with that.
Quite. And as you would expect is having a negative effect on the Tories.
A hundred Tory rebels has caused far more damage to Johnson than anything said by the Labour Leader.
Wasn’t that always inevitably going to be the case though?
When you embrace the swivel eyed loons to jettison the conservative bits of the Conservative party and expel half the rational ones and replace them with fellow nutjobs, nobody can hold that together
I just hope it goes the same way as it did when Labour insurgents elected an absolute idiot because it kept their extremists happy. They let the same idiot lose two elections.
I’d love the Tory’s to do the same. They won’t, obviously. They’ve more sense than thr. Just.
It is interesting to note that as someone who claims to be in the Labour Party, despite clearly hating it, you never miss an opportunity to attack its members binners.
So now you describe more than half the party, ie the majority, as "insurgents".
I’d love the Tory’s to do the same. They won’t, obviously. They’ve more sense than thr. Just.
Why on earth would a political party focus on fighting and expelling its members, unless it was some sort of Stalinist party or they simply wanted to ingratiate themselves with a hostile right-wing press?
It is interesting to note that as someone who claims to be in the Labour Party, despite clearly hating it, you never miss an opportunity to attack its members binners.
I don’t hate the Labour Party at all. I see it as a force for good and the only route to escape from Tory tyranny
And I don’t just claim to be a Labour Party member. I am one. Mad eh? I help with local election stuff and all-sorts. Bonkers eh?
Are you actually a member BTW? Don’t bother answering that. I reckon I can hazard a guess.
I never know whether I’m attacking fellow comrades or not because nine times out of ten, especially the ones gobbing off about the martyrdom of Saint Jeremy and Zionism, and anti-semitism and trans rights and all the usual things that really really matter to working class voters in Bury, aren’t actually members at all.
They’re generally just trying to impress someone in the common room and just a bit… well… you know…
Why on earth would a political party focus on fighting and expelling its members, unless it was some sort of Stalinist party or they simply wanted to ingratiate themselves with a hostile right-wing press?
You may want to check your tinfoil
helmet in there.
And in case you didn’t notice, Johnson ‘cleansed’ his party of anyone sane who wasn’t a true believer as soon as he got power.
How’s that working out for us all at the moment?
Now he’s nominally ‘in charge’ of a group of MPs who are fighting amongst themselves and presently 6-9% behind Labour in the polls
And I don’t just claim to be a Labour Party member. I am one. Mad eh?
You claiming to be a Labour Party member is indeed mad. Despite being a prolific poster on political threads you spend far more time attacking the Labour Party, its politicians, and its members, than you do arguing the case for the Labour Party and its policies.
In fact do you ever make the case for Labour? Apart from the occasional nice thing you might say about Andy Burnham I'm not sure I can ever recall you doing so.
But you do encapsulate the very attitude which has screwed the Labour Party..... right-wing, intolerant, and convinced that the way forward is through infighting and expulsions. So in that way at least I am grateful that you provide a constant reminder of just how bankrupt Labour's right-wing is 😊
If I was a member of Bury's working class I'd be seriously offended by some of the patronising homophobic Little Englander comments on here which are meant to represent me.
Are you actually a member BTW? Don’t bother answering that. I reckon I can hazard a guess.
Not that it was directed at me but I have previously been a member and not that long ago.
It is indeed indicative of the identity crisis Labour has where left-wing members of a supposedly left wing party are hounded out, ridiculed and made to feel no longer welcome - while right-wingers consider themselves to be the true soul of the party.
And in case you didn’t notice, Johnson ‘cleansed’ his party of anyone sane who wasn’t a true believer as soon as he got power.
How’s that working out for us all at the moment?
So now you're saying purging is a bad thing, unless it's being done to left wing 'insurgents'?
If I was a member of Bury’s working class I’d be seriously offended by some of the patronising homophobic Little Englander comments on here which are meant to represent me
Patronising, I’m fine with. I’ll take ‘Little Englander’ as meaning I don’t publicly declare my concern for the people of the West Bank often enough
Homophobic? If you can give me some examples of that, comrade?
gobbing off about the martyrdom of Saint Jeremy and Zionism, and anti-semitism and trans rights and all the usual things that really really matter to working class voters in Bury
Tell us more about working class voters in Bury, from the perspective of a graphic designer in Ramsbottom.
Ps Andy Capp is not a documentary.
Jeez I go down the pub with Binners and then he gets into an argument with Ernie when he gets home. He seemed to be in such a good mood too 😀
I blame our repeated failure to ever discuss politics while in the pub
That and my homophobia
That and my homophobia
Well you do have to watch for all these lefty bumboys.
I never know whether I’m attacking fellow comrades or not because nine times out of ten, especially the ones gobbing off about the martyrdom of Saint Jeremy and Zionism, and anti-semitism and trans rights and all the usual things that really really matter to working class voters in Bury, aren’t actually members at all
I am a working class voter in Barry - do I count? Also are you using comrade in your usual derogatory way in the above paragraph binbins? I can't tell.
They’re generally just trying to impress someone in the common room and just a bit… well… you know…
This thread is like a common room, and the most keen to impress person is? The one with the "funny" pictures and "funny" rants maybe?
It was clearly a brutal blow not being allowed into the sixth form but I see no virtue in mocking the afflicted.
My homophobia and lack of education aside, Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s, and look like they even might be on for winning an election, you don’t seem very happy about the fact
Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s, and look like they even might be on for winning an election
Starmer's been extremely lucky with the tory implosion. It won't last though as they'll soon be shot of Johnson and consolidated behind a new leader (which probably won't last TBF). He should sieze the opportunity to put an end to his self-defeating and pointless civil war against his membership. Imagine what a united labour party could do against these self-serving idiots? That 20 point lead in the polls might yet be achievable.
Starmer must now be favourite for the next election whoever the Tory leader is.
Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s, and look like they even might be on for winning an election, you don’t seem very happy about the fact
LOL! For someone who usually finds something to rant about you've got a nerve accusing BillMC of not sounding happy! 😊
And btw before you get too carried away with "well ahead" in the polls you might like to reflect on the fact that throughout most of 2012 Labour had a double digit lead over the Tories and yet despite that, and despite 5 years of austerity, the Tories went on to comfortably win the 2015 general election.
As far as I am aware Labour haven't had a double digit lead over the Tories for years, not even midterm.
Considering that the Labour Party are presently polling well ahead of the Tory’s,
The two stunning byelection victories only reinforce that.
Remember any proper leader would be at least 20 points ahead it isnt looking great for the glorious leader to be honest.
Why should we vote for a poor copy of the libdems and not just the libdems?
And btw before you get too carried away with “well ahead” in the polls you might like to reflect on the fact that throughout most of 2012 Labour had a double digit lead over the Tories and yet despite that, and despite 5 years of austerity, the Tories went on to comfortably win the 2015 general election.
Yep, this. There are plenty of home counties types who, safely mid-term, will say 'Ooh, that Boris is terrible, I wouldn't vote for him!'. But when it comes to it, at a General Election, would they seriously put their money where their mouth is, when the risk is getting a Labour government? They'll put their tick next to Lord Haw Haw just like they always do.
Blimey! You’re little rays of sunshine, positivity and optimism you lot, aren’t you? 😂
I actually think you absolutely love having a Tory government, the more ‘orrible the better, so you’ve got something to endlessly moan about when you’re not banging on about Israel
The one thing you love more is when Labour actually got elected.! Because then the real whining could start. How dare they be in power
?! The bastards!! Who the hell do they think that they are?!
You’ve never forgiven Blair and Brown for winning power, and you’d similarly damn Starmer if he spoiled all your ‘fun’ too.
That’s why you loved Grandad so much. Like an old comfort blanket of guaranteed defeat, bitterness, injustice and vocal disgruntlement
It’s like political munchausens syndrome. You bloody love it at the moment, don’t you. Let’s all just admit it?!
I’ now convinced that the last thing on earth you actually want is a Labour government as it’s guaranteed to be the ‘wrong sort’ of one. 😃
Increasingly desperate trolling binners. You've not posted a Monty Python pic for a while btw.
Been at the ol' sherbet again binners?
Btw I'm loving the "so you’ve got something to endlessly moan about" and "Because then the real whining could start"
Your lack of self-awareness is hilarious! 😀
I'd be interested in anything he's proposing to do in office. He's rescinded his pledges, he won't use the 'S' word, he's driven out or expelled 000s of LP members, he's got an Israeli military spy running his media searches, he relies on big business for money, he helped keeping Assange in prison, he's an 'unqualified' supporter of apartheid zionism, he offered the NHS workers SFA. I've only ever voted Labour but I am struggling to think of why I might vote for him. Dare you, give us a policy.
Been at the ol’ sherbet again binners?
Oh, it’s far far worse than that mate. I’ve only gone and got blooming Covid, ain’t I?
So I’m both feverish and bored. 😃
It’s going to be a long ten days. For many people
he’s got an Israeli military spy running his media searches
To be fair to him… who better?
He’s rescinded his pledges, he won’t use the ‘S’ word,
Starmer's 10 socialist pledges are still on his website, if the Tories are smart come the general election they will use those pledges to paint him as a dangerous socialist.
He will undoubtedly strengthen their hand by repudiating the pledges and claiming that he doesn't agree with them.
They can then paint him as a charlatan who say anything to get elected and therefore cannot be trusted.
https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
So I’m both feverish and bored
I'm looking forward with anticipation at unrestrained rantings liberally illustrated with stills from Monty Python.
And hilarious references to you wearing ladies attire.
Yep, guess you're right, you'd want someone trained by an apartheid state to sort out any socialists in your own party. I guess you wouldn't give them any cause for concern.
Yep, guess you’re right, you’d want someone trained by an apartheid state to sort out any socialists in your own party. I guess you wouldn’t give them any cause for concern.
What would you prefer?
There’s Kevin, who does the leaflet posting in the Tower Hamlets constituency office. He’s pretty hopeless but his hearts in the right place. And his eczema‘s cleared up a bit now so people don’t scream when they see him
Assaf Kaplan worked for Israeli military intelligence carrying out surveillance on Palestinians living in the occupied territories so that information could be gathered with a view to blackmailing them into working for the occupying military authorities.
Labour Party policy, in line with international law and the UN, is that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territory is illegal. Therefore the activities of the occupying forces are illegal.
I can understand the attraction to Starmer towards a man with a history of surveillance and blackmail, as he engages in his relentless fight against his own party members, but there is probably a better candidate for consideration in Labour's social media team than an ex spy who engaged in illegal activity for a foreign power.
Can you imagine the reaction had Corbyn given a social media job to a politically friendly foreign spy?
It's hard to imagine you making light-hearted "jokes" about 'Kevin who does the post' under those circumstances binners.
Can you imagine the reaction had Corbyn given a social media job to a politically friendly foreign spy?
He was surrounded by former members of Brezhnevs politburo, wasn’t he? You’re not trying to tell me that this photo wasn’t taken in Moscow in the late 70’s, are you?
Look what they’re wearing, man?! His Trabant is just out of shot
BTW: Assaf Kaplan sounds like a proper Bond Villain name. I bet he’s got a lair. Any man with a name like that has to have a lair, possibly in a disused tunnel on the London Underground by Charting Cross that’s accessed Dangermouse style from the street above
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1473352605560672257?t=X0uzm2HjNCZ2_yWdlr5L1g&s=19
Tory spokesman.
Ah shit sorry Wes is in the shadow cabinet isn't he?
Blimey! You’re little rays of sunshine, positivity and optimism you lot, aren’t you? 😂
He should be 20 points ahead by now.
That's what you used to say about Corbyn, wasn't it? A little consistency wouldn't go amiss.
Binners:
And his eczema‘s cleared up a bit now so people don’t scream when they see him
Gosh, what a shitty comment. Eczema is not something to be lightly ridiculed.
Ah shit sorry Wes is in the shadow cabinet isn’t he?
Who says the centrists are merely bland weathervanes with no conviction or principles?
Eczema is not something to be lightly ridiculed.
Everything is to be lightly ridiculed when you don't want to engage with any actual issues.
Assaf Kaplan worked for Israeli military intelligence carrying out surveillance on Palestinians
while there's much breathless speculation in the usual media about what his role in 8200 might have been, there's no actual evidence of it. Bear in mind also that all 18 yr old Israeli citizens are conscripted, so the (often implied slur) "Ex IDF" applies to well, more or less everyone.
What is true about Kaplan is that he was comms. director of the Israeli Labour party who were trounced in the election that he was part of and lost all but 6 seats in the Knesset, so it remains a mystery why Labour want to hire such a "successful" person to help them out. Presumably ernie will tell me it's all part of a Jewish right wing plot (aren't we all supposed to run the media/world government/banking* after all?)
I guess it's the same sort of nonsense that supposes Milne as an ex Communist party member has links with Putin's GRU that suggested that Corbyn should to go easy of the Dear Leader after the Skripal poisonings. After all, there can't be any other reason for his totally inept handling of the whole affair, can there? I think most of the folks that write columns in Internet "newspapers" are really failed or disappointed spy novelists.
*Can I just say, that the cheque for my share in world domination seems to have been lost in the post for some time now, I really ought to chase it up
The cold, dread fingers of the shadowy cabal even extend to this forum 😉
Presumably ernie will tell me it’s all part of a Jewish right wing plot (aren’t we all supposed to run the media/world government/banking* after all?)
Can you stick with facts Nick and not make up nonsense accusing me of anti-Semitism?
I know accusations of anti-Semitism is the go to line of attack against the Left these days but can you try to be a little more creative and not slavish repeat what you read?
I am very clear about my opposition to Zionism and the brutal racist Israeli state, I make no criticism of the Jewish people.
In the same way that back in the day I was very clear about my support for Nelson Mandela and my opposition to the brutal racist apartheid state. However I made no criticism of white people.
For racists to claim that they themselves are victims of racism is a long established tactic, the NF & BNP have long made that claim, with little success. Zionist however, due no doubt to the long and appalling history of the persecution of Jews, have had considerable more success. It doesn't make it right though.
Can you stick with facts Nick
Dude if you've any evidence that Kaplan actually worked as a spy, then surely untold riches await you from any number of "media" outlets. How you can suggest that I "stick to the facts" when you post childish fantasy spy novel nonsense like Assaf Kaplan worked for Israeli military intelligence carrying out surveillance on Palestinians, what's the phrase? Cognitive dissonance?
You'll note my poor attempt at humour at the end of my post, perhaps going back over my post with that in mind, rather than firing off all barrels before you've had your morning brew would be a better idea?
Ernie - one of our cats is called Nelson Mandela. The other one is called Che Guevara. We had another one called Bobby Kennedy but he moved in 6 doors down when we went on holiday, the mercenary little sod
As far as I know, none have worked for Mossad
Though you can never be 100% certain, can you?
Makes you think…
Dude if you’ve any evidence that Kaplan actually worked as a spy
Is this some semantics about the distinction between 'military intelligence officer' and 'spy'? Clutching at straws much?
Presumably ernie will tell me it’s all part of a Jewish right wing plot (aren’t we all supposed to run the media/world government/banking* after all?
This kind of straw man does a discredit to combating genuine anti-Semitism and is a real cheap shot/diversion. It's also the default tactic of the Israeli state when criticised about literally anything - to cry anti-Semitism. For the record I think you are ignorantly parroting their line rather than being part of any conspiracy.
You’ll note my poor attempt at humour
No I didn't note any humour in your post.
So you think you are fully justified in accusing me of anti-Semitism on the basis that you don't accept that Assaf Kaplan worked for Unit 8200?
Is that how it works now..... don't agree with what someone has said? Just accuse them of being racist. Or at least darkly hint that they are propagating Jewish conspiracy theories.
Have a read in binners Bible about Unit 8200 :
If you don't agree that there is evidence that Assaf Kaplan worked for Unit 8200 then try saying so without making wild allegations of anti-Semitism.
You do know that 8200 (the unit that Kaplan worked in) is the biggest unit in the IDF? There's 1000's of people in it, and that as a conscript, he'd have had no say in what unit he was posted to...Example; a friend of mine's dad was in the Para's in the 70's, that doesn't make him part of what happened on Bloody Sunday.
Be at least partly skeptical of why some media outlets are determined to go with the "he was a spy" story when "He seemed to be really shit at his job at Israel Labour" is 1/ evidentially true, 2/ easier to back up with facts, and 3/ perhaps a bit dull by comparison?
There just seems to be a generous helping of credulity when it comes to stories that suit an agenda.
It said on his linkedin profile that he was a member of the unit. But maybe that's been faked as part of some conspiracy?
No I didn’t note any humour in your post.
You honestly think I'm actually waiting for a cheque for my share of controlling the media?
You're moving the goalposts. Now he was in the unit but we don't know what he did. Although it said on his linkedin profile he was an intelligence analyst then an officer.
But of course I'm sure he wasn't aware of the mass blackmailing of innocent Palestinians.
You honestly think I’m actually waiting for a cheque for my share of controlling the media?
I honestly think you are casting aspersions of anti-semitism under the pretence of 'humour'.
Example; a friend of mine’s dad was in the Para’s in the 70’s, that doesn’t make him part of what happened on Bloody Sunday.
No but he was almost certainly complicit (if only by silence) in some fairly serious human rights abuses.
So Nick you don't deny that Assaf Kaplan worked for Unit 8200, but you still want to accuse me of anti-Semitism/progating Jewish conspiracy theories.
He was just an innocent conscript and there is nothing sinister about Unit 8200 anyway.
Have you read the Guardian article? Go on have a go, or is the Guardian part of this anti-Jewish conspiracy too?
Remember Assaf Kaplan was chosen by Starmer to be part of his social media team so a certain level of integrity is expected. That Guardian article certainly puts that in some doubt.
Have we established if he has a lair yet?
I’m going to be really disappointed if he hasn’t
And a white cat, obvs
So you don’t deny that Assaf Kaplan worked for Unit 8200
Nope, but I sure as shit don't know what he did, do you?
but you still want to accuse me of anti-Semitism/progating Jewish conspiracy theories.
The joke was aimed at me (it was the set up for the joke about the cheque), I apologise that I made reference to you. I didn't mean it.
He was just an innocent conscript and there is nothing sinister about Unit 8200 anyway.
Yes he was a conscript, that Israel has a spy network is no more or less sinister than NSA or GCHQ or SAVAK or the GRU, who all do equally shit things and for who I have equal regard, I don't hold that being a member of the Israeli version is necessarily better or worse.
Remember Assaf Kaplan was chosen by Starmer to be part of his social media team, do a certain level of integrity is expected.
I agree, I think he was a poor choice, but mostly because he appears to be rubbish at the job.
Yes he was a conscript, that Israel has a spy network is no more or less sinister than NSA or GCHQ or SAVAK or the GRU, who all do equally shit things and for who I have equal regard, I don’t hold that being a member of the Israeli version is necessarily better or worse.
You have obviously decided to ignore the link to the Guardian article. The issue isn't whether Unit 8200 is any more or less sinister than NSA or GCHQ or SAVAK or the GRU, that is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether he was a suitable candidate for the Labour Party's social media team.
I'm not entirely sure but I think that you might have apologised for accusing me of anti-Semitism, if that is the case then I warmly accept your apology. If I have misunderstood then I can assure you that I won't be losing any sleep over it.
Oh, it’s far far worse than that mate. I’ve only gone and got blooming Covid, ain’t I?
*steps away from thread for the next 7-10 days* 😂
Go read a book or something. Now is the perfect time for you to catch up on up to date green economics and politics rather than the 25 year old redundant tax and spend centrist rubbish. (start with that stuff I sent you about Rojava in Syria. They attempted to implement the theories of Murray Bookchin who is the Karl Marx of green anarchism)
Given how long I was chatting to you in the pub the other night I suspect I won't be far behind you. At least it'll get me out of having to see my folks over xmas.
Ah. Okay it seems the collective decision was to have a fight about israel after all. Seasonal and all that.
It reflects my age and weird childhood reading habits, but 'Kaplan' as a name does not have sinister resonances for me, though I accept that I'm probably not trying hard enough
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_Kaplan
Mr Kaplan is extroverted and highly assertive, particularly when his moral sense has been outraged by some perceived injustice in class or in American history, and he frequently gets into noisy disagreements with other members of the class.
So he'd be a big hitter on here. First time I've used the phrase only three years after everyone else had stopped.
Anyway, Assaf, we've got to hope he's now using his arcane powers for good. Or maybe pissing about on some forum? Same really.
Ah. Okay it seems the collective decision was to have a fight about israel after all.
You know how it works around here. Our resident lefties can get any thread onto the subject of Israel, Palestine and anti-semitism within 3 posts 😂
I do find the niche knowledge about individual Israeli members of Labour staff does seem to indicate a level of obsessiveness about the subject
Still.., I’m sure that the average voter, once they’ve read all the detail, which they surely will, will share our comrades concerns
You know how it works around here. Our resident lefties can get any thread onto Israel, Palestine and anti-semitism within 3 posts 😂
It was actually you who did it binners.
BillMC made a vague reference, among a lot of other stuff, that Starmer has "got an Israeli military spy running his media searches" and you immediately responded with "To be fair to him… who better?".
You simply cannot resist talking about Palestine, Israel, and posting stills from the Life of Brian.
It's an obsession of yours. As is claiming that it's a subject which no one is interested in.
Our resident lefties can get any thread onto the subject of Israel, Palestine and anti-semitism within 3 posts 😂
You can exclude me from that. I couldn't give flying f*** about Israel or Palestine to be honest. Same goes for trans rights (I'm a TERF apparently, according to my daughters), don't even get me started on that.
Have we done this yet BTW? https://labourhub.org.uk/2021/12/21/a-letter-from-north-shropshire
You can exclude me from that.
Quite. Calling you a leftie is probably over egging the cake.
Pretty sure we'd be talking about Keir Starmer directly if there was something to say. The most exciting thing seems to be that the Lib Dems won a by-election with Labour nowhere.
Have we done this yet BTW? https://labourhub.org.uk/2021/12/21/a-letter-from-north-shropshire/blockquote >
It's the kind of thing that would have had the usual suspects on here up in arms about how pathetic the leader is if they had any kind of consistency or convictions.
Calling you a leftie is probably over egging the cake.
Ahahahaha! This reminds me of an argument I had in a pub with a socialist worker circa 1995. I'd almost forgotten that if you don't submit and defer to the socialist vanguard you can't be part of their fantasy new world order. Funny though cos while binners is still stuck in the 90s, some of us are still hanging on to early 20th century marxist-leninism. 😄
Look… do we know if this Jewish bloke has got a lair inside a volcano, or not?
Have we done this yet BTW? https://labourhub.org.uk/2021/12/21/a-letter-from-north-shropshire/blockquote >
A former candidate has every right to make these points. But if Labour had mounted a stronger/any kind of campaign, chances are the Tories would have taken the seat. That's FPTP for you, and the as things stand, getting the tories out will require a lot of difficult and close decisions (by parties or by voters), and by voters, a lot of swallowing hard and putting a cross where you don't want to. There may even be posters on this thread finding themselves having to vote labour in the face of their delicate sensibilities.
btw as volcano lairs go, Cesar Manrique's is pretty classy, in Lanzarotte and worth a quick visit:
https://fcmanrique.org/casas-museo-visitas/fundacion-cesar-manrique-tahiche/?lang=en
Have we done this yet BTW?
To be honest I cvould've written the same thing during the 2010 election in Brackley (the conservative candidate was the then unknown Andrea Leadsom). I get the frustration from the local organisers, but I can see the other side.
There's a probability that the Tories will reclaim the seat at the next election, so even if you win, there's a hundreds or thousands thrown at a seat that you won't, in all likelihood hang onto, and money you can't spend campaigning in more marginal seats come the next election.
It pisses off the local campaigners, but you've got to spend money where it will make a lasting difference, otherwise you just end up wasting everyone's money
I don't think Corbyn's team would've made a different assessment
Ahahahaha! This reminds me of an argument I had in a pub.....
Yup, "argument in the pub" socialist sounds quite apt.
I think what differentiates you from someone like binners is that you are more of a realist, you don't simply ignore the facts if they don't suit your argument.
Binners is a master at ignoring inconvenient facts or moving the goalposts to suit his argument. When all that fails he simply posts hilarious comments and stills from James Bond/Monty Python.
But you don't strike me as instinctively any more left-wing than most others Daz.
I don’t think Corbyn’s team would’ve made a different assessment
They might well have done because they weren't skint. You know, when Labour had the support of the unions, loads of members and weren't being sued left right and centre.
They might well have done because they weren’t skint
So great, you're still spending money on a seat that's in the bottom half of seats that you're likely to hold onto, and you get into a spending war with the Lib-Dems, and all it will achieve is to split the anti-Tory vote, if you still lose, you look like chumps to people giving you their money.
Yup, “argument in the pub” socialist sounds quite apt.
Is this one of these 'if you're not in the party you're not doing anything of worth' comments I've often heard from labour people? I remember back in my days as an enivronmental activist this was all we ever heard from labour types. It's especially amusing 20 years later when I look at their stunning record of non-achievement both in government and in opposition.
But you don’t strike me as instinctively any more left-wing than most others Daz.
I don't see the left/right identification as especially useful. I'm more interested in the division between the powerful and non-powerful and how we can change the way power is exercised rather than simply alternating between different elite groups. Does that make me left wing? I have no idea.
I don’t think Corbyn’s team would’ve made a different assessment
The difference being that Corbyn would have had an army of volunteers knocking on doors and speaking directly to voters rather than simply throwing money at advertising etc. I actually haven't got a problem with handing North Shropshire to the lib dems. If they come to an agreement where the lib dems focus on taking seats from the tories in the shires and labour the towns and cities then that would seem like an obvious strategy to maximise tory losses. And if the outcome of greater cooperation between labour and the libdems is an end to FPTP then even better.
And if the outcome of greater cooperation between labour and the libdems is an end to FPTP then even better.
I don't think that will ever happen. From both parties standpoint PR (or it's variants) would be a disaster (I know that from your perspective that outcome wouldn't be). I agree though, there's no real need to contest every seat, and if the end result is to oust the Tories then a agreement with a political party that's willing to throw everything at limited gains seems on the face of it, to be a pragmatic choice. It's certainly something the LibDems have grasped as a strategy, I think most people still say "Who?" when asked about Ed Davey, so how well it works in the next GE remains to be seen I guess.