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Yeah but at least the press didn't criticise him which they might have done if he had said something.
And focusing on attacking members of the Labour Party, especially ones that call themselves socialist, is bound to please the right-wing papers, which is of course very important.
I guess Starmer’s advisors have never seen the thick of it? It’s tragic.
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1447939727416610818?s=21
Hopeless… that’s not how you do it… you smash through the wall with both thumbs in the air… or wave some little flags when you’re “stuck” on a zip wire… absolute amateur hour. It’s like Miliband and his bacon butty… that should have been to camera… “Build Back Bacon”.
What a weird automaton he is though. Surely you'd have to have at least an embarrassed chuckle if you failed a driving test as part of a PR exercise. But no it's 'very good very good' with a completely blank tone and expression. Probably wondered what Mandelson would tell him to do.
He doesn’t have any of the skill set of our current PM, he will never be PM. Johnson would have done much “worse” at this task, but come out laughing it off and gaining voters in doing so. Pulled a moony out of the cab window, or made a joke about running over green protestors or something. He’s a proper pro. He can connect even while looking hopeless and out of his depth.
Surely you’d have to have at least an embarrassed chuckle if you failed a driving test as part of a PR exercise
or comment on how its a skilled job and that bootcamps might not be the right solution.
Pulled a moony out of the cab window, or made a joke about running over green protestors or something.
Proper laugh my ass off.
I guess Starmer’s advisors have never seen the thick of it? It’s tragic
When you pen the protagonist in a script - the best anti-heros that the audience roots for are flawed losers.
It's a simple as that.
Johnson is a successful invention in terms of political characters that just happens to be a real person.
So my next question is - was he 'created' or did he just evolve?
He ‘created’ himself. He. Is. Not. Stupid.
He ‘created’ himself. He. Is. Not. Stupid
There's always a team behind these leaders though, pushing and pulling PR.
That Starmer hgv stunt is classic Johnson, I'm not sure he can pull it off the way the clown PM does,
but then I don't get why people like it when Johnson does it, so what do I know?
I know that after the death of two MPs, this is a tough week to be opposition leader… but by god Starmer has been an utter waste of space this week, hasn’t he.
Who?
He's got a massive goal net with covid currently. Huge.
Simon Wren-Lewis makes a simple analysis.
https://twitter.com/sjwrenlewis/status/1451101110358380548?t=apu5fCXgRqk8uX592EIdUw&s=19
He’s not only failing to get a shot on that open goal (and it’s not the only one) but actively trying to get everyone to pretend it’s not there, and to keep passing around in Labour’s own half instead of even considering changing the goal tally.
The Labour Party need to hire Cummings, although I disagree strongly on Nandy.
https://twitter.com/dominic2306/status/1451228352619102211?s=21
He’s not only failing to get a shot on that open goal (and it’s not the only one) but actively trying to get everyone to pretend it’s not there, and to keep passing around in Labour’s own half instead of even considering changing the goal tally.
It's completely bizarre.
There must be some of the electorate that like the idea of the opposition pushing against the Government's non-handling of the virus.
Is that such a small group of people?
Tories have the excuse that the right don't do solutions to complex problems.
I'm pretty sure this is where Labour step in.
Starmer just came on the news.
Binnerstte number 1 (17 and presently doing politics A Level):
“I could just slap his useless face to try and get him to DO SOMETHING!”
15 year old Binnerette number 2:
“Who is he?”
I think that pretty much sums things up
The Tories must be incredulous at what exactly it is they have to do to raise the Labour Party from its catatonic state? Kill another 100,000 over the winter?
Starmer just came on the news.
Most excited he's been all year with the sounds of it.
Even Labour MPs who are in seats which are currently marginal seats are unlikely to lose their seats next general election.
Taking on the Tories lacks any urgency for them and when coupled with no discernible political convictions I can understand the reason for the widespread apathy which appears to have gripped the Parliamentary Labour Party.
Starmer isn't rocking the boat, everything is just plodding along with very little criticism from the press, why make things difficult by getting all bolshie?
why make things difficult by getting all bolshie?
As I’ve always said, very few of them care about winning or changing anything, they just want to protect themselves. And they wonder why people think they’re useless.
Starmer isn’t rocking the boat, everything is just plodding along with very little criticism from the press, why make things difficult by getting all bolshie?
He's completely happy to rock the boat if it means getting rid of certain elements of the party.
Probably not seen as rocking the boat by Starmer and his supporters but simply a way of placating the press/media, which can be very hostile if you send out the wrong message and frighten them into thinking that you might change things.
But yeah I get what you're saying, Starmer is up for a fight as long as it's not against the Tories.
Which for me is frankly more shocking than Tories behaving like Tories.
Which for me is frankly more shocking than Tories behaving like Tories
Yes imagine our suprise when they don't just carry out race-to-the-bottom policies but do them badly too.
Nothing new.
Just up road from me. (Council)
By-elections mean nothing etc etc
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1451523321099603968?t=7G5lRinpmKJZwElP3wXjcQ&s=19
By-elections mean nothing etc etc
And council by-elections considerably less than parliamentary by-elections.
The next government won't be made up of independents.
That result provides only percentage figures, no vote numbers. Some ward by-elections the total number of votes is just a few dozen so very few people can have a dramatic effect on percentage changes.
Last week there was a borough-wide referendum on directly elected mayors in Croydon, one polling station, despite remaining open until 10pm, only had 17 votes cast the whole day.
And local issues obviously have a far more profound effect than in a general election. Why was the by-election called?
So while people on Twitter are busy doing an excellent job of holding the tories to account on dumping sewerage into rivers, what are the Labour Party doing?
https://twitter.com/redandriveting/status/1452405910043865094?s=21
So while people on Twitter are busy doing an excellent job of holding the tories to account on dumping sewerage into rivers, what are the Labour Party doing?
The up-tick in stories about sewage run-off over the weekend off is a strange one. The water companies have been allowed to do this since forever. so that they can prevent flooding and so on, Certainly the monitoring of it has increased, I'm not sure the quantity has significantly. I've seen both the Tories and Brexit being blamed, although directly Johnson's govt isn't to blame here (the water companies were privatised in the 90s?) If you want a target, look to the water cos who've paid billions in dividends and haven't done enough infrastructure updates, and the legions of folks flushing wet wipes down the loo.
I'm not sure jumping on bandwagons that are tilting at windmills is a good strategy for Labour is it?
Last week the hard right in the Labour Party in Croydon were carrying out further purges to strengthen their already huge grip locally.
https://insidecroydon.com/2021/10/23/regina-road-scandal-sees-two-more-councillors-de-selected/
The deselection of Patsy Cummings is an absolute disgrace. She is one of the last remaining councillors who is committed to the principles that the Labour Party was founded on.
As a black woman she has tirelessly fought to give black people a voice in Croydon and the wider community, she has particularly campaigned for those affected by the Windrush scandal - 50.7% of Croydon's population are Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic.
However Croydon is Labour's General Secretary David Evans's home patch and along with Blairite Progress MP Steve Reed the hard right have a formidable grip on the party.
The morally bankrupt Labour group in Croydon, which has managed to financially bankrupt the Council, will almost certainly lose control in next May's local elections, it would appear that only a miracle could stop that from that happening.
Labour's right-wing solution? Attack those in the party who want to offer something different to the Tories.
The deselection of Patsy Cummings is an absolute disgrace. She is one of the last remaining councillors who is committed to the principles that the Labour Party was founded on.
It’s happening up and down the country. The polling gains for the green party are not a coincidence. I saw some news reports at the weekend that the Labour Party is on the brink of bankruptcy. I hope it happens, because we desperately need an alternative to these self-obsessed divisive c****.
That article is pretty scathing of Cummings.
That article is pretty scathing of Cummings.
Yes "Inside Croydon" is always deeply hostile to the Labour Party. It is also deeply hostile towards the Tories. It has no allegiance to anyone. It is like a local version of "Spiked".
Cummings is getting blamed and being used as a scapegoat for things completely out of her control.
The Regina Road scandal was an absolutely appalling scandal which made ITN. The only connection Regina Road has with Cummings is that it's in South Norwood which Cummings represents. Cummings is not responsible for Labour's housing policy other than she is a Labour councillor.
Her problem is that she is on the left of the party although no more so than someone like Clive Lewis. Steve Reed, who it is fair to say is undoubtedly to the right of Starmer, has been gunning for Cummings for a long time - she used to be constituency chair of his local party and he had her ousted a few years back.
Cummings has been very instrumental in getting the council to back and financially support events which have campaigned for justice for the Windrush generation, issues which directly affect many Croydon residents.
That article is pretty scathing of Cummings.
You must be reading a different article to me as I can't see anything there that I would describe as 'scathing'. It's interesting though that she went from being a 'rising star' to being deselected at almost the exact same time as Starmer and his 'up to the knees in blood' stormtroopers enacted their scorched earth policy of purging the labour party of anyone who gives a shit about working people.
Yes the Croydon Housing Scandal even made it to up here in the north. I remember it. Your lucky to have "Inside Croydon" looks like it's run by folk who care about what's going on. I'm jealous, we don't really have anything like an equivalent up here.
You must be reading a different article to me as I can’t see anything there that I would describe as ‘scathing’
Oh, I dunno...
With selection meeting results coming through at Saturday tea-time, the de-selection of Cummings and Fraser was a bit like hearing on Final Score that a couple of struggling fourth division clubs had got knocked out of the FA Cup first round by some plucky non-leaguers.
It was not all rejection for Newman’s numpties, though.
Sounds pretty vitriolic to me, perhaps I'm getting soft in my old age
Inside Croydon articles are always pretty vitriolic. And they are always liberal with their use of words such as shit and bollocks. They do also provide useful investigative journalism often covering issues that no one else does.
If you don't know about the Regina Road scandal here is an ITV article on the scandal.
And as you read it remember that this is a Labour controlled council in 2021.
It is a very long article, well it is no small issue, you will see that it is heavily suggests that racism has played a significant role in the appalling housing conditions provided by a Labour council. The idea that Patsy Cummings a black woman who has tirelessly fought for racial justice should carry the can is frankly absurd.
Well I don’t know anything about Cummings or the other guy in that article (‘thirsty Fraser’) but it seems to me pretty obvious there’s a certain amount of snobbery at play. Basically if you look a bit scruffy and poor then you can f*** off! If only these old school lefties could lose some weight and learn how to shop.
I have no idea why Inside Croydon calls him "thirsty Fraser". I have known Clive Fraser for well over 30 years, he is a Scot with a deep gravelly voice, perhaps that's why they think he is constantly thirsty?
I have never considered him a heavy drinker, but I have always considered him as someone who has never forgotten why he joined the Labour Party.
For further evidence of how the hard right are clearing out the remaining lefties from Croydon, despite already being in firm control:
https://insidecroydon.com/2021/03/01/newman-supporters-stage-takeover-of-local-labour-party/
The carefully co-ordinated move is a clear signal that, despite all the public claims of reform and change at the council that their former leader helped to bankrupt, Newman’s fellow Blairites are determined to cling on to what power they can.
In the latest episode in the Starmarisation of the Labour Party...
@nickc isn't the sewerage thing to do with Brexit? Water companies can't get the chemicals to clean the water at the mo due to Brexit.
AFAIK, @ctk they've not been doing that for quite some time. The numbers of prosecutions from the Environment Agency has gone down from over 250, 20 years ago to almost nothing now. I think the numbers of rivers that meet the environmental standards of EU directives has fallen as well, which I think is the Brexit angle? I'm not sure really.
So if there's any blame to be thrown around, it should probably start at the EA who've not been doing the job that they're supposed to do. To be fair to them, like everything else, their budgets have been slashed by Austerity budgets of the previous Tory govts. Again, not really Johnson's fault.
EDIT; and again to be fair the water companies, Agriculture plays a massive part in illegal sewage dumping, and as farms can expect pretty much never to be inspected by the EA it's a vicious circle, add to that millions of folks flushing the loo and pressure on companies like UU to make sure that places like Todmorden don't flood, and pay out dividends...It's never going to work
its due to driver shortage according to Water industry
https://www.water.org.uk/news-item/driver-shortage-statement/
I’ve seen both the Tories and Brexit being blamed, although directly Johnson’s govt isn’t to blame here...
So, the running down of the EA over the last decade is nothing to do with the Conservatives, and supply problems facing the water companies is nothing to do with Brexit? Ok... right... I find that dubious... could this be in another thread though?
So, the running down of the EA over the last decade is nothing to do with the Conservatives,
yeah it is, but it's more complex than just Ya Boo Tories, it's also slurry from farms, and climate change and people flushing wet wipes and creating fat bergs. We're ALL discharging sewage into rivers. the bit that Tories are responsible for; not properly funding the agency that takes polluters to court isn't really the main issue...
I have no idea why Inside Croydon calls him “thirsty Fraser”. I have known Clive Fraser for well over 30 years, he is a Scot with a deep gravelly voice, perhaps that’s why they think he is constantly thirsty?
I was intrigued, so I took a look. It seems they started referring to him as 'Thirsty Fraser' around March 2021, joining 'Thirsty Clark', who has been so named since around mid-2019.
Couldn't find a definitive accusation against either of them. Seems to be a general insinuation of snouts-in-trough, and/or of being frequently seen at fancy events with free food and booze, thus besmirching the proletariat.
We’re ALL discharging sewage into rivers.
So, if I don't flush, and you don't flush, we can contribute to the solution? Because the alternative is to expect a government capable of ensuring our supply chains and regulatory bodies function correctly? And that's too much to ask for? It's the bare minimum our government should be doing. But... can we move this to another thread?
For further evidence of how the hard right are clearing out the remaining lefties from Croydon, despite already being in firm control:
What I find most interesting/alarming about stories such as these is the ridiculous amount of politicking going on in local labour parties rather than anyone actually doing anything to help their constituents. FFS it's a borough council not the bloody politburo, and as far as I can see it's the right wing of the party who seem to be the main protagonists. I guess they think these silly political games are good experience for clawing their way up the greasy pole, which is obviously their main motivation rather than actually doing anything to help the people they represent.
the ridiculous amount of politicking going on in local labour parties rather than anyone actually doing anything to help their constituents
Not my experience of my local Labour councillors. I suspect that up and down the country many people are impressed with their local representatives, if they pay attention to local politics at all. I don't know anything about Croydon, but if we want to go looking for political battles, they can always be found. Sometime they are just noise, and at other times (Liverpool springs to mind) the battles are over real and depressing failures of governance and/or corruption.
One of the unspoken aims of austerity was always to cripple the regulatory organisations allow businesses to be unfettered by "health and safety gone mad" and other such concerns (like paying taxes as HMRC have also had their budgets slashed making it virtually impossible to investigate tax avoidance). Brexit was just a further victory for that aim.
If only labour could make an impassioned case against such policies instead of promising to do the same but with better orginisation.
What I find most interesting/alarming about stories such as these is the ridiculous amount of politicking going on in local labour parties rather than anyone actually doing anything to help their constituents. FFS it’s a borough council not the bloody politburo, and as far as I can see it’s the right wing of the party who seem to be the main protagonists.
100% this
the internal labour party mechanisms seem to be geared around arguing about stuff
the tories far more focused on getting into power
however
and as far as I can see it’s the right wing of the party who seem to be the main protagonists. I
I cant see theres much difference between either left or right of party, its just one of binners monty python gifs come to life
I cant see theres much difference between either left or right of party
I disagree. From what I can see as an outsider, the people on the left/soft-left are very busy in their communities across a number of issues such as housing, transport, environment, crime, community outreach etc. I don't see the same involvement from those on the right who seem to think nuts and bolts grassroots issues are below them. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I read accounts like those posted by Ernie, all I see is people involved in politics for all the wrong reasons.
With golden rain issue it seems more a result of privatisation, monies diverted into dividends and pay rises for CEOs rather than investing in purification infrastructure and hence relying on ferric sulphate to coagulate the matter.
Couldn’t find a definitive accusation against either of them. Seems to be a general insinuation of snouts-in-trough, and/or of being frequently seen at fancy events with free food and booze, thus besmirching the proletariat.
Interesting. Many Croydon Labour councillors undoubtedly see the council which they helped to bankrupt as a cash cow that helps pay their mortgages, but Fraser is a councillor which I would least associate with that.
https://www.mylondon.news/news/staggering-amount-croydon-councillors-were-19497661
I think however that it be fair to describe him as a very active party bureaucrat so I can well imagine that he might attend a lot of functions involving buffets and drinking.
Btw the scandals and failures of Croydon's right-wing Labour group are far too extensive to list but here's another taster from only last week :
https://insidecroydon.com/2021/10/21/council-flogs-off-hotel-for-less-than-29-8m-it-cost-to-buy/
They also announced last week that they would permanently close down a highly popular swimming pool in Purley which is used extensively by school children because they don't have the £3 million required for repairs.
In May 2022 Starmer's/David Evans's Labour Party will be asking voters in Croydon to vote for them. Apparently because the Tories are very bad.
Croydon is a marginal council.
Btw the scandals and failures of Croydon’s right-wing Labour group are far too extensive to list but here’s another taster from only last week :
Interesting example as the stuff I was reading about labour going bankrupt said the national party had commanded local constituency parties to provide lists of all property they owned. Looks they're planning a similar style sell off of property owned by constituency parties to fund their war against members. It's a bit like Trump telling the mexicans to pay for the wall. 😄
Well here’s a poisoned chalice job if ever I saw one 😀
https://twitter.com/willthong/status/1452532603853197318?s=21
Never heard of him. Liking his recent tweets & RTs though.
Croydon is a marginal council.
I was going to say something along the lines of when Councils are controlled by a party for a long time, eventually corruption like this rises to the surface (see Liverpool) But this is really marginal council, it's swapped from Conservative to Labour back and forth over the years. Factional in-fighting really is poisonous for residents
It was once a safe Tory council, I remember a time when Labour were down to just 4 council seats!
The fight to wrestle it from the Tories was a long one. Although changing demographics did help.
All of which makes Labour's betrayal of their loyal voters even harder to stomach.
Edit : My mistake, I've just checked and it was 5 seats that Labour were down to during the Thatcher era. I think I got confused because 4 of the seats were on the New Addington council estate, which at the time was Labour's "Red Wall" in Croydon.
With the pre budget announcements and leaks, this is looking like an electioneering budget, the Tories see an opportunity to extend their rule now rather than risk a downturn to their fortunes in a couple of years. probably planning a spring election IMO.
I think it is too late for labour to do anything now, Starmer has set the stall out and no one is buying what he is selling.
Interesting and depressing (but Starmer would make little/no difference) and maybe get it out of the way before any public enquiries into corruption, PPE, Serco etc. He rode out the last report, must be feeling cock-a-hoop whilst the LP is defeating and bankrupting itself.
I think it is too late for labour to do anything now, Starmer has set the stall out and no one is buying what he is selling
Can't disagree, but latest polls have Tories getting a minority government at best,
The budget is just announcements of already pledged money, I don't see it shifting much
A GE on today's polls wouldn't be the Labour car crash of 2019 but nor is it the Blair landslide
Starmers team hoping that Chaos Kongs time as PM will want people craving sensible Starmer?
Starmer has set the stall out and no one is buying what he is selling.
I missed that - what was he selling?
but latest polls have Tories getting a minority government at best
With the polls where they are now, there is no real chance of Johnson’s majority even being dented, never mind done away with. Once an election campaign is underway, Johnson and his team will have reduced support for Starmer and Labour back down to 2019 levels. Starmer needs to go.
EDIT: sorry for sharing something from this guy, but he explains the difference between “mid term” and “election run up” polling perfectly here:
https://twitter.com/modernuklabour/status/1451179710797344776?s=21
what was he selling?
cuts in business tax
£9.50 minimum wage. If Labour had said £12.50, £12, £11 (bloody anything) at the conference their response that £9.50 is not enough would have carried more weight.
he explains the difference between “mid term” and “election run up” polling perfectly here:
Really? I thought it was completely unnecessary protracted waffle. It took him 2 minutes to explain something which anyone with a vague interest in politics already knows - support for a ruling party generally dips midterm but then picks as the general election date approaches.
Obviously in 2017 the reverse happened but that wasn't typical.
support for a ruling party generally dips midterm but then picks as the general election date approaches
He explains the why, not just the what. Everyone knows about “mid term blues”, but he explains why they can often be washed away at the election. And he does so quite succinctly, and with an example, and a warning about Labour Party complacency. No waffle that I noticed.
I have always thought that it was pretty damn obvious why it happens. I'm surprised anyone needed Blair to explain it.
Who was he talking to?
I believe it’s from this event in 2020:
No, I haven’t watched it all, and would no doubt be annoyed by much of it. I just used that clip because, for me, it sums up the danger of looking at the current polls and ignoring how far Labour are from being the preferable choice of government for enough people at the next election. They are not even close. And I don’t think they will get there with Starmer. He needs to go.
Ah, February 2020 at Kings College then.
So why the **** was Blair telling them not to be complacent? Why did he think that they might be complacent?
At that point Labour hadn't led in one single opinion poll since the general election. In fact the first opinion poll that had Labour in the lead was in late September last year, and that was short-lived.
Prescient, no?
Oh I see, he was predicting complacency, despite no evidence, because he assumed Starmer's leadership would be a roaring success and voters would flock to Labour.
Personally I would prefer if Blair kept his advice for despots. They seem to value it and are prepared to reward him handsomely.
he was predicting complacency, despite no evidence
He was warning about the danger of it.
Looking at the current polls doesn’t tell you just how big a mountain Labour have to climb. And they don’t currently look as if they’re bothered about establishing more than a basecamp for future expeditions. If they want to seriously trouble the government at the next election, they need to move Starmer aside, and install someone else, before then.
At least a catastrophic defeat of Starmsky in an early election might hasten a bit of change but who else is there?
I’ve thrown three hats in the ring… Lewis, Lammy & Miliband. I don’t think it’ll be any of them though, sadly. If the vote was May next year, and she put herself forward, I think Rayner would walk it. Jarvis looks to be positioning himself to run if there’s a chance to do so this side of the election as well. I don’t think Nandy is in a position to do well with the members, but could get lots of MP supporters.
Oh, I like Dr Rosina Allin-Khan as well, and one of her negatives … caught breaking rules dividing campaigning and parliamentary work … would probably be send as a positive for her if she was on the government benches.
I think Rayner would walk it.
No chance. If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England then Rayner is a thick northern slag who is incapable of being pm. I mean just think, she might cause an international incident by shagging a foreign president or something because she can’t keep her legs shut.
Does that explain the Richard Madeley reference to being his 'best girl'? A bit like Liam Fox's 'firm friend/best man'?
No chance. If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England then Rayner is a thick northern slag who is incapable of being pm.
Or alternatively some of us just think she wouldn't actually be liked by most voters so wouldn't actually win an election for Labour. I don't think she is that good, but guess what, it is not because I think she is a thick northern slag.
If this place is indicative of centrist liberal England
The thing with this mythical "centrist liberal England" is that it is a created catch 22 situation. the swing voters that have won elections for the past 40 years, have won elections for the past 40 years because politics has targeted them at the expense of the majority, and especially the disenfranchised voters who outnumber them by some margin.
If Labour want to win they need to stop pretending centrists are the only game in town, and start making inroads into the millions of people who feel rejected by the current political bubble.
Starmer has to contest the next election. He can still win, mid term blues and normal polling patterns are out the window with covid & Brexit imo.
Starmer is doing shit but if you win a leadership election you should fight the GE.
Clive Lewis didn't get enough nominations last time, Allin-khan wouldn't get enough if it was now. I'm not sure that the others would tbh.