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What a load of bollocks. The only thing the left wants is a leader who promises policies in line with labour’s purpose of representing working people and who isn’t embarrassed to stand up for the working class. It’s really not a lot to ask.
Oh ‘the left’ want that, do they?
Good for them
In case you didn’t notice the ‘working classes’ in the north just voted for a racist, Eton-educated, silver spoon Tory, daily Telegraph journalist and told ‘the lefts’ ‘man of the people’ to **** right off in no uncertain terms, for the second time.
‘The Left’ can think what the hell it likes, but I’ve got more chance of becoming the next pope than it has of governing this country.
It’ll just carry on railing impotently from the sidelines, as it always has, until it decides to engage with reality and not venemously castigate anyone who doesn’t fancy voting for ‘the left’ patronisingly informing them
It knows what’s best for them
This is the elephant in the room. ‘The Left’ has some quaint 1970’s idea of what they believe the ‘working class’ (whatever that is) should want. And they’re simultaneous absolutely bloody furious at those very same people for failing to conform to their lazy stereotypes and get in line and vote for them
What is it with English people and blaming the other of a two party pendulous repetition for everything they are not empowered to provide? then getting amnesia when it turns full circle.
It was the same when the formerly popular Tony Blair was in favour, tories were the useless lost in the wilderness losers...yes that happened and Thatcher left no tory ever able to return, but no one remembers that because it makes them uneasy, then..as is customary with UK voters, it all turns to the polar opposite and they switch places, then we do it all again from the opposite end, thus little changes but the popular party from a choice of two gets to watch the other get the blame while they get away with murder for a bit, and the other must be hated, this is the law that must be observed.
Rather than perpetuate this, why not have a progressive discussion on how you end the empowerment of two parties that were last relevant to their respective populations in 1802.
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failing to conform to their lazy stereotypes and get in line and vote for them
So in the Brexit thread binners spends all his time sneering at and stereotyping Brexit voters for being thick/racist, yet in this thread he's just an ordinary ruddy down-to-earth northern man who has a real affinity with the working classes and can't stand the way they get patronised by urban intellectuals. Hmmmm...
This goes way further than Brexit.
The most ridiculous irony is that Corbyn was more enthusiastic about Brexit than Farage, but he wouldn’t come out and say so because that would jeopardise the Islington gravy train he’d been riding for 30 years
So he went awol like the spineless shithouse he is
It’s not a binary argument. Though everything is binary in the moronically simplistic leftie world of ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’ and other such sixth form level nonsense
The Labour Party won 3 successive elections without resorting to being racist, but it had a leadership at the time could differentiate its arse from its elbow. And ‘the left’ hated that fact even more than the Tory’s did.
They still do. They’ve still never forgiven Blair for actually winning elections. Didn’t he know that as Labour leader you’re meant to virtue-signal impotently from the sidelines?
I’d like to think that one day ‘the left’ will realise that it will never win power because it endlessly piously and sanctimoniously tells everyone what’s best for them, according to them, and berates them for their lack of moral virtue. Like a shit Taliban
But ‘the left’ doesn’t want to be in power. It’s not remotely interested in the responsibility that goes with that
It’s always happier to be whining and moaning from the cheap seats. As this thread endlessly proves
All the greatest hits, with an extra dose of deranged bitterness and failure to understand your own hypocrisy. 8/10
The Labour party needs to appeal to more than working people. There are 29 million of them, and many of those economically active people are very much in the Tory demographic. The Labour party needs to appeal to anyone who would benefit from their policies, i.e. the vast majority.
Agree. The problem is that getting people who are in a Tory demographic to vote Labour is very difficult. Blair did it but look what the "left" thing of Blair. To get into power in a country with a lot of Tory voters (dare I say Tory Britain) you need things that appeal to those people as well as things that help/appeal to the working classes.
You don't need to go full Tory as some seats will never vote Labour. Where I live the Labour vote in 1997 was 14% compared to a best of 19% in 2017. Even in 1997 the Tory MP still got 50%.
Dreaming about how you are going to come up with revolutionary societal changes and have all the Tories voting for them is ridiculous. If you live and work with Tories every day you know that is never going to happen, ever.
If the Tories raise NI as floated in the press then Labour will need to respond. Is this an opportunity for Labour to go after wealth rather than income?
If the Tories raise NI as floated in the press then Labour will need to respond. Is this an opportunity for Labour to go after wealth rather than income?
The current labour policy is to pay for it from general taxation, that includes NI.
I wouldn't be surprised if NI is a smokescreen for something else based on the blowback they are getting
... but the point is it's an opportunity for Labour to do something different and fairer.
Raising NI is easiest for Tories as pensioners don't pay it and it disproportionately affects lower paid workers so has less effect on core Tory vote. Does this expose the tensions on the Tory vote between traditional Tory and ex-red wall
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If you want to win this number (or the more finely tuned figure) needs to be in your consciousness. Every policy announcement needs to have this in mind, every public utterance, every press release
Why?
If you don't you become the LibDems
I'll boringly say it again, if you aren't the government, you aren't legislating, if you aren't legislating you aren't creating real change. Labour needs to decide if it's a party of influencers or a potential government
The genius of the Tories is getting ordinary working people to think that it is fair for them to pay for social care while the very rich pay nothing. Unless Labour can do something about that, they will remain in tbe wilderness. Since Starmer has nothing to say on this subject, as on every other subject, the chances don't look good.
All the greatest hits, with an extra dose of deranged bitterness and failure to understand your own hypocrisy. 8/10
No Life of Brian memes - gonna have to dock a point.
Raising NI is easiest for Tories as pensioners don’t pay it
Anyone on state pension alone won't be paying any income tax either. It only effects pensioners with a second income. They haven't got many other electoral choices and if the alternative is potentially losing the dementia lottery and your wealth they'll grumpily go with anything
If you want to win this number (or the more finely tuned figure) needs to be in your consciousness. Every policy announcement needs to have this in mind, every public utterance, every press release
Part of what Labour needs to do is work to change the underlying national narrative - without a shift to a socially conscious society, not least because of climate change, Labour will never win an election.
Simply applying a test about whether a policy is a net gain or loss would end up with an incoherent mess of policies.
Unless Labour can do something about that, they will remain in tbe wilderness. Since Starmer has nothing to say on this subject, as on every other subject, the chances don’t look good.
How do you tell your typical 50+ Tory voter that they need to cough up a bit more for their healthcare in their more dementiary years when they could keep voting for the incumbent and let the yoof pay for it?
Anyone on state pension alone won’t be paying any income tax either. It only effects pensioners with a second income.
Nobody above state pension age pays NI irrespective of pension income (unless self employed). Income tax but not NI. So lots of pensioners earn enough to pay income tax so would be affected by increases in income tax but are not affected by NI increases. This is a key reason why it's attractive to Tories
...but less of the Tories. Starter and Labour really need to respond to the Tory position.
Something creative would be nice
but the point is it’s an opportunity for Labour to do something different and fairer
They already have a policy. Pay for it from general taxation, rather than make taxation less progressive under the pretence that you are doing so out of some backwards idea of “fairness” that big earners need to keep more of their income rather than pay a bigger share towards services out of their bigger incomes (and/or wealth).
Now, how does Starmer make that snappy and catchy? How does he present it in a way that doesn’t get twisted into Labour only being on the side of the lazy? Not really the man for that, is he? It’s a big ask.
Part of what Labour needs to do is work to change the underlying national narrative – without a shift to a socially conscious society, not least because of climate change, Labour will never win an election.
Yep. And you can't do that by trying to out flag-shag the ENP.
You need to appeal to moderate people who don't want to be ruled by a Variety act loosely based on early Mussolini.
There are more of us than you'd think but we're too metro for the purists.
But moderate people are the real enemy Danny, what with their establishment liberal elite fruit and veg and croissant eating ways.
Pay for it from general taxation
But what does that mean - don't increase any tax - or increase all taxes equally, or increase standard rate of incone tax, or higher rates, or VAT or restart the fuel escalator, lower IHT thresholds etc etc
It's a meaningless statement - all tax basically goes into a big "general taxation" pot
If Starmer repeats this as a policy after the Tories have specific tax plans he will be a mockery
Raising NI is easiest for Tories as pensioners don’t pay it
Nor does the model New Tory Voter. Most of their income is cash in hand and it doesn't go through any books.
specific tax plans
Labour hasn’t got a clue what it will be inheriting, so needs to avoid specific tax promises this far out from an election. There is the dilemma of opposition.
How did the SNP handle the revenue side of this issue when they changed Scotland’s approach to care?
Lisa Nandy - on Marr now. Labour line is talk to Tories and plan properly cross party solution
Marr push back - Tories have a plan, you don't, so would you vote for it.
I get the point about commitments early in electoral cycle - but clueless labour is become a stand of narrative in the mexia
But it’s a trap…
Why are people not asking which tax rises will specifically pay for the costs of the pandemic?
Why are people not asking which specific taxes will pay for the costs of defence spending?
If the country needs to do it. Do it. Then address the taxation system as an entirely separate issue. Don’t use social care as an excuse to rebalance tax towards the lower earners and away from higher ones.
The most ridiculous irony is that Corbyn was more enthusiastic about Brexit than Farage, but he wouldn’t come out and say so because that would jeopardise the Islington gravy train he’d been riding for 30 years
FFS man Corbyn went against his instincts on brexit to appease the centrist remainers in his party like Starmer. You wanted him to go much further if I remember, but now you’re having a go at him for not being more pro brexit?
I see no reason why it couldn't be done on income tax. Reducing the 40% threshold a bit might cover it.
but now you’re having a go at him for not being more pro brexit?
He wasn’t saying that, was he.
I see no reason why it couldn’t be done on income tax.
Or removing upper limits on NI. Or changing how we tax business. Or changing local taxation. Or another revision to CGT. Or removing the NI exemption for the rich and old. Or…
The point is that any major changes to our tax system shouldn’t be hung off the back of caring for people who need it. Take the decision to either fully or partly fund the care system (we don’t even know what Johnson is proposing, and he probably doesn’t yet either) and then, separately, and probably over two parliaments, sort out the tax system. A one liner response right now is doomed to be used to stoke up resentment and opposition to Labour’s pretend hypothesised tax increase rather than the Conservative’s one (which hasn’t even been announced yet).
“Why won’t Labour arbitrarily hang social care costs on one taxation change in many years time.”
“Well, the current government haven’t even done so yet, and they’re running the country (between nice long holidays).”
But what does that mean – don’t increase any tax – or increase all taxes equally, or increase standard rate of incone tax, or higher rates, or VAT or restart the fuel escalator, lower IHT thresholds etc etc
i think what it means is don't have a special extra tax for health care and social care.
However, it all feeds in to the fiction that a nation's economy is like a household economy. That's not the case except for the bit of the household economy which involves the kids washing the car in return for dad writing them an IOU on a post-it note.
Marr push back – Tories have a plan, you don’t, so would you vote for it.
really? What is it?
their lazy stereotypes
I have always assumed that your total lack of self-awareness was genuine binners. You express it with so much passion that it's never occur to me that it could be anything other than genuine.
But now I'm starting to think it's possible that you are in fact just taking the piss. It seems inconceivable to me that anyone could truly lack that much self-awareness.
I know of no one on here who caricatures people with lazy stereotypes more than you do. From 'the left' to the working-class, you present a rigid stereotype which you endlessly repeat over and over and over again, stubbornly refusing to let go.
In case you didn’t notice the ‘working classes’ in the north just voted for a racist, Eton-educated, silver spoon Tory, daily Telegraph journalist
'The Left’ has some quaint 1970’s idea of what they believe the ‘working class’ (whatever that is) should want. And they’re simultaneous absolutely bloody furious at those very same people for failing to conform to their lazy stereotypes and get in line and vote for them
So you binners in contrast aren't absolutely bloody furious that the ‘working classes’ in the north just voted for a racist, Eton-educated, silver spoon Tory, daily Telegraph journalist?
It is not the impression which you project.
Although 'seething' would be a better description. To be fair you do appear to be angry with everyone..... the Tories, the Labour Party, voters, London-centric Southerners, whoever they are you are probably furious with them.
Btw both quotes came from the same post.
really? What is it?
Sadly doesn't seem to matter - headline story is more important than substance
really? What is it?
There is not yet a policy or a plan, even though Johnson promised one. Even this detail (an unrelated shift of tax towards the lower paid and away from the rich) is currently just rumour.
The idea that Starmer should dump Labour’s current (admittedly very broad brush) policy on social care, and announce a hypothecated tax rise right now, mid-term, while in no position to implement it, just because Johnson might be doing so at some point, is a trap. Yes, one that interviewers will be happy to play along with, but not one Labour should allow themselves to be pressed into stepping in.
kelvin
Full Member
but now you’re having a go at him for not being more pro brexit?He wasn’t saying that, was he.
Posted 23 minutes ago
REPLY | REPORT
No he wasn't saying that.
He was saying that the man who appointed Keir Starmer, a committed Remainer, as Shadow Brexit Secretary, and committed the Labour Party to a second referendum, was more pro-Brexit than a man who led a party whose sole purpose was to leave the EU.
It is hard to imagine a more ridiculous statement. Although binners doesn't seem to have a problem.
while in no position to implement it, just because Johnson might be doing so at some point, is a trap.
Aside from Starmer could attack it effectively by doing what that cabinet minister did and pointing out the leaked approach is deeply flawed. He could then go on and attack the Johnsons policy of trialling policies by leaking them to sympathetic press.
There seems to be a trend to announce everything is a trap and therefore silence is the response. At some point Starmer has to demonstrate some vision.
Specific policies aside - Starmer and Labour- need to be setting a vision for what Labour is and can offer - and how different to the Tories.
That's a pure leadership role - sadly not sure he's the person to do that. But if he can't get some energy something going on the back of conference we are in even deeper trouble.
He also needs to stop listening to those voices that are encouraging factional score settling. Nobody outside the party/narrow band of political nerds gives a shit but it takes up a huge amount of bandwidth within the party nationally and on the ground. If ever there was an place for pragmatism for the benefit of electability ( in terms of internal party coherence) it's on this
Lisa Nandy said on Marr this morning that she couldn’t comment on the social care plans because they don’t know what they are yet. That sums up everything to do with Starmers approach. Say nothing, don’t offer an opinion, let alone what they would do about it if in govt, and defer to the tories at every juncture. They couldn’t be more pathetic if they tried.
Lisa Nandy said on Marr this morning that she couldn’t comment on the social care plans because they don’t know what they are yet.
Not so stupid, is she.
Johnson is using media leeks and prompts to try and get Labour to help him avoid the kind of mess that May got into when it comes to paying for care. The mess that at one point looked like it might have delivered a Labour, and Corbyn, led government (for the record, I still wish we’d seen that happen). They should not indulge him with his “brief it anonymously and see the response” approach to policy making.
She’s not commented on it as she can see it for what it is, because they do it all the time
It’s kite flying
... but at some point Labour are going to have to do something to start to turn opinion. It can't be left to a final manifesto election run-in.
As it stands the Tory lead narrows in the polls when they do a specific **** up and then lengthens when they are just bouncing along with generalised incompetence and undermining liberties, public institutions and shafting poor people.
If we can't start to turn the tide we are never going to win an election - not least because the Tories can pick when to hold.
... this why I keep banging on about the need for a vision. But to create and generate energy around that needs a visionary leader. Sadly, not sure that's Starmer, even more sadly I think he will need to lose a GE before he goes.
I voted for Starmer as leader, as the best of what was on offer - not least as he seemed to offer a unifying voice at the time. But it's not really working out - some of which is clearly pandemic related.
This year's conference is key in setting put that vision and tone for the party. I really hope it's positive. Not least as I'll be back on the doors for the first time since Batley and Spen and could do with something positive to say
In what seems like a now familiar pattern Andy Burnham is coming up with suggestions, and the reform of social care is an area he’s been flagging up for years now.
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1434449582927323146?s=19
Banging your head against a centrist do-nothing pole.
Yeah but he's doing this and doing that.
They are so smart at doing nothing in reality.
In what seems like a now familiar pattern Andy Burnham is coming up with suggestions, and this is an area he’s been flagging up for years now
Amazing.
The debate could be framed - we can afford the social spending without taxing anyone. That could be a Labour response. We don't run out of £££.
Labour in the Tory trap again for the nth time this year.
Banging your head against a centrist do-nothing pole.
Yeah but he’s doing this and doing that.
They are so smart at doing nothing in reality.
But the Red Wall Racists have got what they want now, so how can you win them back? Even when their standard of living is going down the toilet just run a story about hoardes arriving from Bongo Bongo Land, wave a Union Jack and show a few photos of bulldogs. Job jobbed.
In extremis do a 'free pint of Carling with your tenth' offer in the Sun.
This sounds pretty reasonable from Andy and a policy that Boris wouldn’t even dream of suggesting
“How can it be right to ask ‘generation rent’, already saddled with student debt, to pay for the care of a generation more likely to have generous pensions and to own their own homes?” he said.
“The fairest way of providing social care is on NHS terms through a national care service, and the fairest way of raising the funding to pay for it is by taxing wealth, not work. The government should be looking at reforming taxes and reliefs on assets, land, pensions, property and excessive earnings and profits before hitting younger, low-paid workers with the bill.”
I’d be interested to know how much he’s liaising with Starmers office? A lot, you’d hope. Obviously, not being an MP, he’s freer to make statements like that
Maybe in light of Tory kite-flying they’re doing some of their own. I’d certainly hope that this is the direction of Labour Party thinking
Lisa Nandy said on Marr this morning that she couldn’t comment on the social care plans because they don’t know what they are yet.
And, they are about to have a huge row about it at Conference.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/04/pressure-grows-on-starmer-to-back-tax-on-rich-to-pay-for-social-careI personally know that David Evans is strongly opposed to "taxing the rich" as I had a one to one conversation with him many years ago on that very subject, I suspect that these days he's even more right-wing. And I also doubt whether Peter Mandelson thinks any different.
David Evans and Peter Mandelson appear to be the two people who are currently advising Starmer. I doubt whether they share Starmer's moral case for socialism or his stance on economic justice.
If Starmer repeats this as a policy after the Tories have specific tax plans he will be a mockery
I believe it was an inherited policy from the JC days
I know of no one on here who caricatures people with lazy stereotypes more than you do. From ‘the left’ to the working-class, you present a rigid stereotype which you endlessly repeat over and over and over again, stubbornly refusing to let go.
There are some posting on this thread who run a close second to Binners on this.
This year’s conference is key in setting put that vision and tone for the party. I really hope it’s positive.
Starmer is going to keep things tight until conference, either because he has no ideas or because he wants to use the platform to make an impact and get on TV looking passionate etc
This thread could arguably be closed up to that point as it's clearly the moment he'll sink or swim as LOTO
There are some posting on this thread who run a close second to Binners on this.
Yup
^^^
I'll hold my hand up to being a centrist realist rather than an extremist fantasist.
“The fairest way of providing social care is on NHS terms through a national care service, and the fairest way of raising the funding to pay for it is by taxing wealth, not work. The government should be looking at reforming taxes and reliefs on assets, land, pensions, property and excessive earnings and profits before hitting younger, low-paid workers with the bill.”
Absolutely. Don’t deliver up one easily identified and hypothecated tax rise for the Tories to spend the next few years pinning on you. Propose updating all the tax system, including a shift from earnings to capital.
How or whether we increase tax take isn’t even the issue that needs solving… it’s how you spend and organise to deliver the care. Who provides the care. Where the workers will come from. How they will be paid. Who owns the facilities. How is any private involvement rewarded. Should local or National government control spending and audit the quality delivered. What choices should individuals face/enjoy over how and where they are cared for. Can people top up their care costs. On and on it goes…
That’s the plan that is needed. Focus on taxes is just an easy media narrative to avoid the really hard issue of delivery.
I’d be watching the SNP all the way, they’re learning, and will be learning, so much that is useful to us in the rest of the UK.
Propose updating all the tax system, including a shift from earnings to capital.
Sorry I am now confused. I thought you were in favour of Lisa Nandy's silence on the matter as opposed to doing the sensible thing of a)challenging it as a tax on the working and b)challenge the tory approaches of testing policies by leaks.
There is no plan for her to comment on. Until it is announced, be dismissive of the rumours of an NI focussed tax rise. Don’t focus on tax take at all, but on delivery.
It is a separate, but important, issue that we focus on income not wealth too much in our current tax system. It has nothing to do with care.
Johnson promised a plan for care, he doesn’t have one. Repeat that point until he’s brave enough to publish a plan, and then answer questions about it.
the fairest way of raising the funding to pay for it is by taxing wealth, not work
Land value tax?
Although isn't that a bit leftie...
.how would the super-rich 5% hide their wealth?
Talking of a lack of real plans to tackle the big issues we face…
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1434455960899182592?s=21
And talking about “real democracy”…
https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1434489453058330627?s=21
https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1433393176547577858?s=21
Binners your partisan tribalism is ridiculous. Had Corbyn said what burnham did (‘national care service’, where have I heard that before?) you’d be on here wailing about 6th form commie fantasists, but because it’s come from your old mate it’s ‘pretty reasonable’. And the post before that you said stating a position on social care was falling into a trap, but then Burnham does exactly that and you’re gushing with praise! 🙄
I think Burnham is very much at risk of falling into the (pick a tax) trap… but then he’s not part of the front bench team, so his hand waving isn’t committing Starmer and his team to anything that can be hung around their necks come the election.
EDIT: To be fair to Burnham (I’m not a fan), he was just giving examples of all the taxes that could do with being updated to shift the tax burden, rather than suggesting hypothecation to pay for care. He’s on the right track.
Falling into a trap = even the potential of doing anything the Daily Mail doesn't like.
And this is why Starmer is too scared to do anything other than snipe away at the periphery.
To be honest I don't see much risk in the Burnham comments, they could and should have come from the frontbench lead on this. So that's a Jon Asworth and Rachel Reeves tag team
You even give it a snappy by line, "stop taxing work, tax wealth fairly"
Nothing to specific to be pulled apart on, those that can pay do, those struggling to get by don't, the left should love it as should pretty much anyone else who gets the issues of the dementia lottery
You even give it a snappy by line, “stop taxing work, tax wealth fairly”
Don't forget to stick a Union Jack on it or you can forget it.
And the post before that you said stating a position on social care was falling into a trap, but then Burnham does exactly that and you’re gushing with praise
Andy can say what the hell he likes. He’s not a Labour MP, let alone a shadow cabinet member, so he has no part in the formulation of policy
Any comments are just that: the speculation of a Labour Party member, albeit a very high profile one
The reform of social care has been a pet subject of his that he’s been going on about for 10+ years so this is hardly something he’s just blurted out
Are you still a member? Perhaps we could call a joint press conference to express our musings?
Don’t forget to stick a Union Jack on it or you can forget it.
Do or don't it doesn't make a difference for me
The last "flag shagger" I saw was just off the Rochdale Canal, but he was clearly a Scot so I suppose he gets a free pass with his saltires
snipe away
atfrom the periphery
FTFY.
Andy can say what the hell he likes. He’s not a Labour MP
So only those who aren’t labour MPs can say something that actually matters to anyone? Well at least we agree on their uselessness.
Whatever you may think of Novara media have a listen to this interview and see whether you think Young Labour is really some kind of extreme leftist threat to the Labour Party.
To me Jess Barnard comes across really well and is exactly the kind of smart, engaging, thoughtful person Keir Starmer ought to be doing his best to encourage. 🤷♂️
Do or don’t it doesn’t make a difference for me
The last “flag shagger” I saw was just off the Rochdale Canal, but he was clearly a Scot so I suppose he gets a free pass with his saltires
It makes enough of a difference to enough of the people otherwise Johnson, Farage, Cummings et al wouldn't do it.
To me Jess Barnard comes across really well and is exactly the kind of smart, engaging, thoughtful person Keir Starmer ought to be doing his best to encourage. 🤷♂️
Yep, but it ain't me you've got to convince.
It is either cash in hand Carling man or the huge number of sensible middle class, middle aged folk who know Brexit and populist politics are shit and dangerous, but still don't trust Labour with their jobs.
Jeez Danny you need to let go of your prejudices. It's not helpful.
I'm assuming you're middle class, middle aged and sensible?
I’m assuming you’re middle class, middle aged and sensible?
Yes that is how I would characterise myself. The very person the Tories (ENP) are telling Carling Man to hate. The ones who have been characterised as WFH bedwetters who need to get back in the bloody office.
In actual fact the ones who have been working from home, working longer hours than before, not furloughed at any stage and will continue to do so as I'm happy to give my previous commuting time to my employer free. The ones that often say to me "I don't want to be governed by an 'entertainer', I want to be governed by someone sensible, thinking and a bit dull. Just someone competent will do."
There is no political home for us normal folk in this current climate of needing to be volcanically angry about something all the time.
There is no political home for us normal folk in this current climate of needing to be volcanically angry about something all the time.
Are you taking the piss with that statement? You’re the most angry person on here.
I not sure Starmsky's main mission is to get elected and that would explain his apparent indifference to his poor ratings.
Are you taking the piss with that statement? You’re the most angry person on here.
Flinging words onto an Internet forum doesn't make me an angry person. Disdainful is probably the best adjective to describe my general opinion of the UK right now.
🤷♂️
Starmsky
His instinct is to go for the middle class sensible vote, but too many of us are locked up in safe Tory seats.
His realpolitik says try to win back the Red Wall Racists - but to do that you have to out-nasty the New Tories on immigration, minorities etc.
He's trying to walk both sides of the street and getting nowhere as a result.
Lisa Nandy chatting on righty Times Radio with Tom Newton Dunn (known for his documented botched conspiracy connection to Aryan Unity / antisemitic sources during the 2019 Labour Campaign ) - discussing the antisemitic Corbyn electoral damage!
YOU CAN'T MAKE IT UP.
Lisa Nandy has a small majority.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1434472508586176514?s=19
In the last 24 hours attacks on Nandy, nearly all focussing on how small her majority in Wigan is, have been all over my Twitter feed. It seems she’s the new target for people completely unable to keep their focus on beating the Tories for more than the length of a tea break.
Her focus, like one or two others, seems to be on beating socialists.
If a seat has a Labour candidate, she’s going to campaign for that candidate. I wish politics was less tribal, but I’m unsurprised.
Her focus, like one or two others, seems to be on beating socialists
Exactly.
His instinct is to go for the middle class sensible vote
I love the arrogance in this statement. Of course you are the sensible ones who carefully think through everything.