[Closed] Singletrack Issue 139 Discussion Thread

Got it last night. Not opened the mag yet but the cover pic, although desolate, is cool

The colour is just phenomenal on that cover pic. I've just finished the STW Club Ride (feat various lunches) article and now oohing and aahing over @charliedontsurf's gloriously decadent inverted baked beans on toast.

Great cover and a good read.

But testing 12 grand bikes in today's economic climate seems almost inappropriate, tbh.

@RustySpanner maybe they were the only ones left on the shelf…? A Boardman bike review will be on the site soon, it doesn’t cost £12k!

Just my opinion Hannah, as requested.

I do appreciate your response, thanks.
🙂

Anyone having trouble downloading the pdf copy? It's playing up for me.

Edit: turned it off & on again & it's fine.

@RustySpanner I'm only slightly joking! This year it has very much been a case of working with whatever bikes we can get. Nothing arrives when it's supposed to (which with the immovable deadlines of print is an issue) and we've barely had choice over the size we get, let alone which model. Companies often want their flagship models to be the media featured bike, and while in other years we've been able to ask for x price point in y size, that's just not been an option recently. I love little more than a nice plan of content, I can't tell you what a relief it will be to my brain to be able to say 'hey, let's test 3 medium sized bikes with 130mm travel and 27.5in wheels in June next year' and know that they'll actually turn up!

No worries Hannah, I understand.

However, with all the very welcome strides taken to promote representation and diversity in the mag and on the website, don't you think it's time we had a proper go at some economic inclusivity as well?

Just a thought, I know that's not the ethos of STW (as I've been told many times before 🙂), but if ever the time was right to do so, it's now.

@RustySpanner I've already got something in the works... are you familiar with Dieter yet? https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/back-from-the-dead-maxle-rescue-and-rebuild/

I am now!

Not a Maxle user so hadn't read the article, but I like his attitude.
Will definitely be paying them a visit, possibly to try and source a bike for the grand daughter.

Appreciated.

Great issue this month - not read the ebike reviews yet but laughed at the title, followed by the lightest also being the cheapest, by some margin.

I really liked the Jamie Hibberd article. I think the journey from youthful infatuation, through being in a dream job, to it turning sour, and abandonment of a childhood dream to rediscovering the original thing that gave you joy is a one which will strike a lot of chords.

@FB-ATB, I'm having trouble downloading the pdf file, what did you switch off/on again?

@aide: my laptop!

Just downloaded the pdf without problems. Using Chrome fwiw

I too liked the Jaime Hibbard story, hopefully we've come a long way, but there's obviously a way to go.

Completely skipped the ebike reviews, although I did chuckle at the price tags.

Not read yet, content looks interesting, but the photos look rather dark. I think its only page 10 and 135 where people's faces are clear.

Eww.
I assumed the poster above talking about the £12k bike review was taking the piss, because... well, who TF would do a review of that...

But FM if he wasn't spot on. The mid priced bike in that review was £12.5k.

Nonetheless I thought I should read the review anyway. Give it the benefit of the doubt. Might be interesting in the same way that reading about maypole dancing, football or something else that I have FA interest in.

Alas I failed to finish the article due to the constant grinding use of the phrase 'acoustic bike'

They're not ****ing acoustic bikes they're just bikes. You have bikes and you have e-bikes. The easiest way to spot the diffrence is the additional 'e' at the front of one of them.

If that's not enough for the ebike journos then maybe you could call them 'proper bikes' and 'ebikes'. Just please for the love of god, not 'acoustic'

Thanks

Got to admit, I was kinda shocked to see the ebike review. I knew there was loads of stuff on the website about them, but hadn't realised that you'd compromised the print version so far as well.

/ feedback

the constant grinding use of the phrase ‘acoustic bike’

Oh no. That really is some irritating shite.

+1 for “acoustic bikes” being an awful term. I didn’t read the article though as I’m a Luddite and I am trying my hardest to ignore the existence of electric motor bikes.

I too enjoyed the Jamie Hibbard article. I do feel that it would have really benefited from a photo of him from his MBUK days, ideally with his yellow Burner. There must be a million to choose from on Stockfile/ Steve Behr.

I would add that my favourite article ever was “Clink-plink!” by Piers Barber in issue 17. In fact all of the columns Piers wrote made me smile. I beg you to track him down and do what it takes to make him start writing columns again…

Alas I failed to finish the article due to the constant grinding use of the phrase ‘acoustic bike’

Glad I skipped the reviews then, that term makes my teeth itch...

but hadn’t realised that you’d compromised the print version so far as well.

Like it or not, eBikes are now a significant part of the mountain biking world, and deserve to be covered as such in mountain bike media. While I can't see myself owning one I do believe they are valid and deserve their print space.

It's a fine line between not being into eBikes and being an elitist about them. There are thousands and thousands of riders either starting out in the wonderful world of mountain biking, or being given a new lease of life in their riding thanks to electric assistance and that has to be a good thing surely?

I'm tempted to buy that cover as a picture...

Really enjoyed reading the STW team ride out too. I'm missing group rides. 🙁

That's a good point actually (and I have a big birthday coming up so have bought the cover for the kids to give to me!) - @stwhannah, can we have more double page spreads for some of the amazing photography in the mags? Issue 130 had one from Martin Bissig in ****stan for example and it was superb - I spent ages just staring at it!

Anybody else think the images inside the printed mag are shockingly bad this month?
Most of the images are really dull and dark - as if somebody turned the contrast knob right up.
So much so that a number of the images I can't really make out any detail.

Maybe its the printing process or I have a duff copy?

What @abingham said about ebikes. I have no intention of getting one - yet - and the price makes me wince. But I was coming back from a ride on Sunday morning when an old fella went past on an ebike. 77 years old - he wouldn't be out riding over the Pentlands without an ebike. They are very much now a significant part of the mountain biking world.

Acoustic, though? It's like calling cups "reusable cups". They're just cups like they always were, not disposable cups.

Like it or not, eBikes are now a significant part of the emountain biking world, and deserve to be covered as such in emountain bike media. While I can’t see myself owning one for a few years yet, I do believe they are valid and deserve their own print space.

FTFY

There are thousands and thousands of riders either starting out in the wonderful world of mountain biking, or being given a new lease of life in their riding thanks to electric assistance and that has to be a good thing surely?

Why?

I mean obviously can see why it is good for you to be able to sell more advertising space, and I totally think ebikes are great from a road/commuting/cargo perspective, but I have yet to learn why people bandy about this supposed truism that loads more people emtbing is a good thing.

Most of the images are really dull and dark – as if somebody turned the contrast knob right up.
So much so that a number of the images I can’t really make out any detail.

Yes, I said it further up the thread. Completely agree.

I have yet to learn why people bandy about this supposed truism that loads more people emtbing is a good thing.

Why wouldn't it be a good thing?

There are benefits for the individuals: being outside, in the woods, partaking in exercise has proven benefits for mental health (and obviously fitness)

as well as benefits for mountain biking as a community: more riders, more audience, more infrastructure, more funding, more voice in national and significant issues in our sport.

As for the removal of the "or being given a new lease of life" line, at some point we'll all be unable to do what we used to (because of illness, age, general fitness etc) so why wouldn't we try to extend the times that we can do what we love by using an eBike if that's the answer?

As I've said, I'm not going to own one in the near future but I do believe having the option of eBikes opens the door to many people who otherwise wouldn't be able to confident to ride.

 but I have yet to learn why people bandy about this supposed truism that loads more people emtbing is a good thing.

I don't think it's necessarily more people e-MTBing, I think it's that existing MTBers are exchanging bikes for e-bikes when they go in to the LBS for their next bike.  It makes sense; Older wealthier men are (as a proportion of the overall population) over represented in the sport and for all the reasons explored on every thread about e-MTBs I fully expect that in the next decade or so, e-MTB sales will overtake MTB sales. Magazines that don't reflect that change will probably struggle to survive.

Just started reading the e-bike article. About half way through it. Must admit the acoustic bike text did jar a lot.

Wonder if people had the same discussion when electric guitars came along. I presume that before that point all guitars were guitars. Then they split into acoustic and electric.

I suppose the alternative is an analogue bike.

I think I can forgive people who write about bikes trying out different phrases or words to get to the point where there's an acceptable word to differentiate between e-bikes and bikes. Look at when bikes were first mass produced and bought by folks at the turn of the last century all the adverts are for everything from "Two Wheelers" (because for a bit tricycles were all the rage) to "Velocipede", and "Push-bike" and so on.

It'll settle down

The 'acoustic' bike phrase was my invention many years ago. I thought it was funny.

The ‘acoustic’ bike phrase was my invention many years ago. I thought it was funny.

Singletrack has always featured bikes that I have very little interest in - 170mm gnarpoons are not my thing at all. I don't currently want an e-bike, I've seen what happens to people's fitness when they buy one. But I'm 62, and I know that unlike gnarpoons there will come a time when I have a choice of between buying an e-bike or giving up certain types of rides. So I'm happy that they exist and I think it's fine for Singletrack to cover them.

Beautiful cover, was on my doormat last night.

The Jamie Hibbard story was so good I sent both Jamie and Chipps a message on Instagram, something about it just grabbed me.

Ref the E-bike test - the Orbea Rise and the (not tested) LEVO SL are pretty much the only E-bikes I've been at all tempted by, but its just a fleeting thing.

Please, please stop the 'acoustic' thing.

@onewheelgood there is something in that - I feel (and will no doubt be proven wrong) that the STW reviews seem to flirt with the two extremes rather too much - too many gnarpoons, too many weirdy bikepacking/toruring/retro/cargo weird stuff and not enough that are just regular mountain bikes ridden by most people? Maybe I'm just far too sheltered and conservative in my bike choices!

I have also stated before that I have less than zero interest in reading stories about people living in sleeping bags and riding across countries I'll never ever visit, but I appreciate that seems to be an unpopular review.

Its still my absolute favourite thing to read. It always looks beautiful and the printing is A1.

Edit - I'm actually redacting my previous comments, as its probably is more me than STW - I flicked through a couple of issues knocking about in the office and maybe I jsut dont remember the normal bike tests so much

Must admit the acoustic bike text did jar a lot.

I read those reviews and it didn't even register TBH. Mountain out of a molehill IMO.

To give some more constructive feedback - I think a little more recognition of the absolutely ridiculous pricing on these machines would do the writers credit. I'm pretty confident they couldn't afford them either, so don't keep skirting around the issue.

Also, having a grouptest feature with different riders reviewing each bike has always seemed a bit flawed to me. Especially when it's clear that some of them are unlikely to be pushing them very hard.

And I know STW does/did have some capable riders on staff, but their reviews can tend to read a little uncritical and "everything is awesome" IYKWIM.

Anyway, didn't mean to write that much, but I hope it's useful.

"There's no getting away from the price tag of this thing. It's immense and you aren't really getting a deal on the full bike when you add up the cost of all the components"

That was the first line of my conclusion for the Levo SL.

Also, having a grouptest feature with different riders reviewing each bike has always seemed a bit flawed to me. Especially when it’s clear that some of them are unlikely to be pushing them very hard.

We have always run bike tests on a theme and actually rarely make direct comparisons between them to produce the traditional 'winner' as it were. Each bike is ridden and reviewed on it's own merits. As for the not riding them hard comment, do you fancy meeting up and going for a ride with either myself or Andi and seeing how you stack up? 🙂 Certainly in the case of this article those bikes have been thoroughly ridden and close to their limits at that.

Surrey. Popped into a shop, looking at a Santa Cruz, £5,000 bottom
of the range susser. Sales bod: "Nobody really buys those analogue bikes any more. All on e-bikes now, like me."

He was 17. I am 56.

Just sayin.

I don't think I've ever read a review of an e-MTB where the reviewer doesn't say something along the lines of "Look at the price of this"

To give some more constructive feedback – I think a little more recognition of the absolutely ridiculous pricing on these machines would do the writers credit. I’m pretty confident they couldn’t afford them either, so don’t keep skirting around the issue.

The only time the pricing would be ridiculous would be if nobody is buying them, and people are very obviously buying them. The company I work for can't get hold of enough Orbea Rises. They are literally being bought up as soon as they are booked in.

And I'm not sure when it became acceptable to tell others what they can and cannot afford? Just because you can't afford a £12000 bike, it doesn't mean that others can't. My wife, for instance (who earns something like 4 times what I do) can certainly afford it and if I can find the spare cash to ride a bike that retailed at over £5k on my meagre earnings then I'm sure that she and a massive portion of the rest of the population could fund anything at £10k+. Just look at the amount people throw away (imo!) on expensive cars..

I read those reviews and it didn’t even register TBH. Mountain out of a molehill IMO.

Bollocks. Just cos it doesn't jar with you doesn't mean it doesn't or shouldn't jar with other people.

I think I can forgive people who write about bikes trying out different phrases or words to get to the point where there’s an acceptable word to differentiate between e-bikes and bikes

This sentence proves there's no need to call them anything other than what they already are.

Whoah! That's some level of vitriol over the use of the word 'acoustic'.

I did bring this up in a podcast a few years ago. We need a word to distinguish the two types of bike because they are both 'bikes'. I said that 'acoustic' is kind of funny but only to people who get the musical reference.  And it's not the eMTB that needs a new name it's the non-ebike that needs a new name other than just 'bike'... because they are both bikes.

But the point is @swavis that they are both bikes. Whether we like it or not people who are buying them (and ebikes are already outselling non-ebikes in the mid to high end of the market) are just going to call them bikes. One has a motor and the other doesn't. So if they are both bikes how do you distinguish the one that doesn't have a motor? It's not the ebike that needs a new name.. ebike or eMTB is just fine. It's when they are both being discussed in the same conversation that it becomes linguistically necessary for there to be a better way of distinguishing between the two.

An eMTB is a type of MTB

So a non-eMTB is also a type of MTB.

But the word 'non-eMTB' is a bit rubbish. So what type of MTB is an MTB with no motor?