Don't see it,
Yeah under normal circumstances she would be gone but really not sure now.
Its not that she is now utterly powerless its just she makes a handy target, sorry, figurehead.
the government decided to set up a state owned oil company and keep all the profits for the benefit of the country
Hmmm, rein in spending today so there's less debt in the future and lower interest payments. It might just work...
But you can just [i]feel[/i] all the squirming, manoeuvring and general sucking up going on under the surface. Their patience just isn't that good. You don't get to be Gove/Boris/Mogg by being measured and careful.Don't see it, she's got control of the ship until it crashes. And everyone can see the crash coming.
Norway as an example - what did they do with their North Sea oil?
Not really a fair comparison. Norway has/had far more fuel per head of the population than the uk and have far greater opportunities when it comes to natural resources. That is how they can afford such great social care policies.
Norway is one of the greenest countries with hydro power and electric cars, etc, which is fantastic if you ignore the fact that they pay for that greenness with the proceeds of the oil they sell.
As far as I know, Norway is still a capitalist economy
I was in Norway recently and a Oslo local* described the country as a thinly veiled communist state.
* I should disclose this was a in a bar and we had been there for a while.
Not really a fair comparison. Norway has/had far more fuel per head of the population than the uk and have far greater opportunities when it comes to natural resources.
The point I am making is that the state kept and invested the money. I'm not saying we could or should be like them - I am saying there are different approaches. Both Norway and the UK had a resource - they invested in it for the people, we sold it to big business.
I was in Norway recently and a Oslo local* described the country as a thinly veiled communist state.
Sounds like a good advert for communism to me.
* I should disclose this was a in a bar and we had been there for a while.
Must have been an expensive evening - hope work was paying!
They weren't drinking, just sitting there. Hence the anger, they couldn't afford drinks 🙂
Maybot seems to have been knocked off the front page by Ted Heath. Makes you think ...
martinhutch - MemberI'm not sure I could name anyone in the current crop of politicians who is capable of any form of leadership. Amber Rudd? Boris? Andrea **** Leadsom? David Davis? Gove?
Harriet Harman? She's less likely to oppose Tory policies than Boris...
Molgrips - what about the tax side of the equation. The uk benefitted from taxing the North Sea oil companies, supporting government spending and lowering income taxes on everyone else.
The difference to Norway is that we benefitted in the same way but took the money straight away. Not entirely straight forward to say which is better. In any case difficult to have a sovereign wealth fund when you run a persistent current account deficit because you are addicted to German cars...
Well - and I'm not an economist - but taxation of the oil business put some of the profit into the hands of the government. The rest became assets for private businesses or cash profits for private businesses and individuals. The Norwegian government took ALL the profits.
But more than that, they (afaik) didn't just fund tax cuts, they kept it and invested it to create a massive sovereign wealth fund, and the proceeds from that go to fund crazy stuff like paying for students to have a funded gap year. Because they want their population to be broad minded and well traveled.
I'm not advocating it necessarily, just pointing out how different they were from us.
The Norwegian government took ALL the profits
No they didn’t/ don’t
I was in Norway recently and a Oslo local* described the country as a thinly veiled communist state.
I've heard that very phrase from drunken weirdos in more countries than I can remember, but mostly in America.
?
So there I was getting excited about May being booted, until I found out it Grant bloody Shapps leading the plot. Like that snivelling little s*** is ever going to persuade anyone to follow him! Maybe he's a plant?
My thoughts exactly daz!
This Brexit/Corbyn paralysis that has the Tories all rabbit in the headlights, seems to have neutered their usual efficiency at swiftly decapitating weak incompetent leaders!
This Brexit/Corbyn paralysis that has the Tories all rabbit in the headlights, seems to have neutered their usual efficiency at swiftly decapitating weak incompetent leaders!
I'm not sure what they're worried about. At a strategic level, there is surely an argument that it would be better to relinquish govt to the labour party and then take advantage later following the inevitable brexit chaos brought about by a bumbling Jeremy Corbyn. Unless of course they believe that labour will make a better job of delivering brexit and Corbyn is not the incompetent ditherer they make him out to be?
Unless of course they believe that labour will make a better job of delivering brexit and Corbyn is not the incompetent ditherer they make him out to be?
They are acting in the national interest as they believe that the socialists will destroy the economy just like they did in Norway.
Oh. Hang on a mo ...
Boris has a brilliant cameo in this:
Unless of course they believe that labour will make a better job of delivering brexit and Corbyn is not the incompetent ditherer they make him out to be?
or they think labour won't execute brexit.
At a strategic level, there is surely an argument that it would be better to relinquish govt to the labour party and then take advantage later following the inevitable brexit chaos brought about by a bumbling Jeremy Corbyn.
Not really, Labour are going to borrow half a trillion and the following Government are going to be the deeply unpopular people who have to pay it all back. That's a worse job than the one they've already been lumbered with. Apart from that putting Labour in to bat would be *very* appealing.
There's no way out for May.
or they think labour won't execute brexit.
You mean May thinks the people who have campaigned to leave Europe for 30 years will change their mind? Interesting.
or they think labour won't execute [s]brexit[/s]enough poor people
But yeah don't wanna mess up brexishambles is the priority, amusing coz it means they get to own it and continue alienating everyone under 50, to keep their dying demographic of choice happy.
If May is replaced sooner means that have to be a rabid brexiter replaces her Patel in with a shout if members can get past her ethnicity, Rudd seems obvious but majority is tiny, Johnson, Mogg both shot their bolts too early, so I reckon Raab or someone equally odious that the members will be happy with.
This all requires May to go, I reckon she's got 1 more fukup before she's out.
And one thing we've learnt about May is that she's very good at ****g things up.
'I have have the backing of the full cabinet'
Sounds like she's for the chop then lol
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41519601
If Grant Shapps has 30 MPs signatures Diane Abbott must be doing the adding up 🙂
Supposedly this is from an MP’s WhatsApp group after Shapps was added (just one of many)
There are fewer signatures on your list than files sent to the CPS after the election campaign you ran as chairman.
[url= https://order-order.com/2017/10/06/shapps-mauled-in-tory-mps-whatsapp-group/ ]Sauce[/url]
@kimbers Rudd has little chance of being elected Leader, see poll of Tory members last week. She’s miles behind Boris and even Davis who doesn't even want to stand based on his age.
I so what to see her chuck in the towel, the aftermath would be amazing - Boris V Mogg you can not make that up. Can you imagine the sheer knee trembling reaction of the swivel eyed party members, my god how would they choose.
Please let it happen....
Boris V Mogg you can not make that up.
They'd have to have a duel. It's traditional. What what what.
With the high accuracy and low recoil of modern handguns, and the close proximity of the target there's a high chance they could kill each other.
Handguns? Surely they should each get an AR-15 with a bump stock in order to make sure.
it still needs the big hitter to execute the coup de grace ala Geoffrey Howe in the commons for all to see
It is rather like sending your opening batsmen to the crease only for them to find the moment that the first balls are bowled that their bats have been broken before the game by the team captain.
what is it with the tories and europe
see poll of Tory members last week
Too small a sample size.
Surely they should each get an AR-15 with a bump stock in order to make sure.
That's a great idea, it's keeping the tradition, but it would also show that the Conservatives are progressive and can embrace modern technology and adapt to change.
jambalaya - Member
@kimbers Rudd has little chance of being elected Leader, see poll of Tory members last week. She’s miles behind Boris and even Davis who doesn't even want to stand based on his age.
And that's why the Tories are in trouble, the ageing members want someone as rightwing as possible, unpalatable to the majority of the electorate.
The irony is that it's the constant sniping of the brexies, IDS,redwood, mogg & johnson etc that have so undermined May & weakened the party
Looks like the next leader will be the last one in the room really, expect the same games and stupid moves, some spectacular self destruction and reputation damage.
Tories really are working hard to shake off the "ruthless with weak leader" reputation. It seems quite possible that she will sit there twisting in the wind, a national laughing stock, for weeks or even months to come.
Or she could be gone in a few days of course.
Interesting change of words from May (reported in guardian re. whether she'd sack BJ) , she's given up on "strong leadership" and dropped it back to "calm leadership." Tacit acknowledgment she's in an awful position?
Well I see her intervention on behalf of 4000 NI workers to Trump has worked well, tarrifs on bambardier gone from 220% to 300.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41532309
Meanwhile an actual conservative party leader has stepped up to defend her
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41534552
& Torygraph reports that the EU now talking to Corbyn, as they want to talk to the person who's actually going to be running the show
A week ago it probably seemed like after her car crash on Marr that things couldn't get any worse....
Oh well.
I observed the comings and goings from St Peter's Square. In front of the Midland hotel was a high metal security fence with some armed coppers and a sign saying 'Welcome to Manchester'. Despite their losing younger voters most of the young men were dressed up like old men. They seemed terrified of the locals and not one of them was seen in the City Arms, the Brink had a sign up saying 'Beware: the publican is a socialist'. People like Rory Stewart immediately held phones up to their ears in the street to avoid anyone speaking to them. Despite the claim that over 47 people become Tory many of the protesters in the square were pensioners. MrsMC had the final speech on her ipad on the way back and that greatly improved driving through the M6 roadworks. Interesting to compare Labour's dignified reserve to the way the Tories went for Diane Abbott.
[quote=BillMC ]Despite the claim that over 47 people become Tory many of the protesters in the square were pensioners.
Clearly it's an average - 47 is simply the age at which more people support Tory than Labour.
And being in that age bracket, I fully expect that threshold to increase at a rate of about one year per year.
Old enough to remember Thatcher but not the preceding Labour shambles 🙂
As I understand it that's not happening, the switchover, is being delayed, either something to do with having kids later & living longer, memories of the last real Labour gov (70s) dimming, or just conservatism falling out of fashion
Exactly. **** off.
^ sadly that's the nail on the head, she needs to go.
