Starmer on the other hand is much more the real deal. Come to think of it, if we put Starmer and Hammond in a room and told them to sort out the Brexshit mess together and ignore the idiots around them, we might have some progress. No chance, sadly....
Indeed. The referendum divided the conservatives and to a slightly smaller extent Labour too, both in public and in private. Wife and I were talking the other day about what it would be to have some kind of cross party package to make the least worst outcome for all of this -whoever is in government in 2 years time we are all going to suffer for it. Starmer is the most able person to manage this IMHO.
I would have thrown Angus Robertson - despite his dodgy grasp on what's good for Scotland - in the mix too, but the Scots decided to elect a Tory instead. Democracy is a funny thing isn't it?
IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.
There is no doubt at allin any same analysis that Corbyn was a vote winner - despite the co ordinated campaign against him by most of the press and a large part of his own party
Those that oppose Corbyn within his own party are not " moderates" - they are out of touch right wingers. Corbyn sits firmly in the centre left tradition of the labour party and his policies would sit comfortably with most european centre left parties.
Starmer on the other hand is much more the real deal.
Not really heard much of him but he went to RGS so he must be good.
Angus Robertson
Back in the Autumn, no doubt.
Stop talking sense THM
they are out of touch right wingers.
Which would make de-selecting them even more reasonable.
IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.
Hmmm. Teresa May got more votes than Blair, is she a vote winner? In 1997 Blair got 418 seats, an increase of 145 seats. This time Labour got 262 an increase of 30.
There is no doubt at all in any same analysis that Corbyn was a vote winner
I think he was a liability and any other Labour front bench/leader since (and including) Kinnock would have won last week. In the absence of a 'control' candidate we'll never know for sure.
outofbreath - MemberAngus Robertson
Back in the Autumn, no doubt.
Predicting a government collapse? 😆 Or just a by election?
outofbreath - MemberIIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.
Hmmm. Teresa May got more votes than Blair, is she a vote winner
I think it's crazy to say corbyn was as successful as blair there, but momentum(in the literal sense) was on his side. if the election was today, we'd be waking up to a corbyn led gov.
To deny his campaign wasn't successful on the other hand is just mental. he's absolutely consolidated control and unified his party, at least publicly. context is everything.
I think he was a liability and any other Labour front bench/leader since (and including) Kinnock would have won last week. In the absence of a 'control' candidate we'll never know for sure.
With the same manifesto? Or for eg Ed Millibands manifesto?
People, would still have to (make the mistake of putting/) put an x against his name Joe, and that is a massive, some would say crazy, ask.
There is making a silly choice and there's making a delusional one - not a great choice really....
IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.
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IIRC corbyn actually got more votes than Blair.
depends on the year of comparison
Corbyn 2017 12,874,985
Blair 1997 13,518,167
Blair 2001 10,724,953
Blair 2005 9,552,436
Brown 2010 8,606,527
Miliband 2015 9,347,304
the swing is wrong ^^^ swing to Corbyn was 9.6%
and the swing to blair was 8.8 in 97
Ta Klunk
That shows the reality of this
Chukka and his ilk would have got far less seats. Remember they tried being bland under Milliband.
depends on the year of comparison
He still lost.
Like Blair.
Who presided over an initial growth in votes but then a steady drop in membership and votes until he bailed at just the right moment to drop Brown in it.
Admittedly Chukka would be more likely to get the media barons support and big business cash but thats not necessarily a good thing for the Labour party or, for that matter, the country.
looking back, it's the best labour vote share since blair in 97, as per above. But going beyond that, you need to go back to harold wilson in 1966 to get higher, and before that, only other times it was higher was atlee in 1951 and 1950.
So, it's the 5th largest labour vote share in history, who'd've(I'm declaring that acceptable english) predicted that 3 months ago! 😆
still not voting tory? 😉eamhurtmore - Member
People, would still have to (make the mistake of putting/) put an x against his name Joe, and that is a massive, some would say crazy, ask.There is making a silly choice and there's making a delusional one - not a great choice really....
a hung parliament is very much a draw.CaptainFlashheart - Member
depends on the year of comparison
He still lost.
Its not hung though is it. The DUP will vote with the Tories to keep IRA sympathising Corbyn out.
Tories 318 Labour 266 - this is Corbyn's idea of winning
So how many days you think it'll last jambs? 150?
jambalaya - Member
Its not hung though is it. The DUP will vote with the Tories to keep IRA sympathising Corbyn out.
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jambalaya - MemberIts not hung though is it
Oh, so you don't know what "hung parliament" means? Ah don't worry, it's probably not important to know things.
Northwind be very careful we have had enough of experts don't you know
And as a sign of how desperate the dup are they have still not managed to agree terms with may other than one vote at a time it seems. Who exactly is in charge of that relationship?
Chukka Umunna doesnt register with voters outside London and those that do know of him see him as fake labour. Time for that sort is gone.
He still lost.
and a pyrrhic victory for the Maybot.
He still lost.
yes but his loss was so much better than Mays loss. Its the weirdest election ever when the losers are happier than the "winners".
Where did that 150 majority go and you cannot claim win when you swap majority for minority, hard brexit for soft, String and stable for no one else wants the job its yours etc. You cannot really be happy as tory with what just happened. yes it could have been worse but it was some way from a good night and what you expected. Even may called it a loss - well before it actually happened - do you want the quote again?
Its not hung though is it
this is pretty basic stuff jamby and one where one needs to put in effort to get it wrong. Are you deliberately trying to look stupid by getting something so basic wrong?
When a general election results in no single political party winning an overall majority in the House of Commons, this is known as a situation of no overall control, or a 'hung Parliament'.
http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/hung-parliament/
Deleted
Mr Woppit - Member
Andrew Mitchell
Ahem. Look who's just popped his head above the parapet... 😉
Edit. Double Post.
You'd think Andrew Mitchell would have learnt his lesson about keeping his mouth shut when he's had a few. As a big Cameron supporter his days of influence in the party are over.
Inside information, is it?
Or perhaps, your well known ability to interpret the ebb and flow of current nuance.
Isn't there something about reaping whirlwinds...
Theresa May is just perfect IMO: She spouts lots of hardnosed tory policies but when it comes to the crunch she will always volte-face if she thinks public opinion is against her. This, combined with the (for me) perfect GE result which has rendered her completely toothless in the Brexit negotiations, hopefully leading to the whole sorry charade being consigned to history's great garbage bin. Gove or Fox are much more idealistic and less slippery pole climbers IMO, so worse for a prompt Brexit collapse. Corbyn would not have been desirable in this respect either.
@chickenman election result makes wto / "no deal" Brexit more likely not less. IMO of course.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-40551928
Given the collection of headlines your going to be waking up to her days are looking numbered. With enough rebellion from her own ranks the opposition parties must see this as a great chance to test her.
Theresa May's speech on Tuesday reaching out to opposition parties makes the lead for several of the papers - with headlines such as "May's cry for help to Corbyn" in the Daily Telegraph, "Weakened May pleads for support from rivals" in the Times and "May appeals to Labour for policy ideas" in the Guardian.
The i says the prime minister's message would have been unthinkable before her election gamble backfired.
The Times says it is an admission of her political weakness.
For the Guardian, the speech will be seen as an attempt to relaunch her faltering premiership.
The Telegraph says Mrs May's appeal comes at a time when her leadership is at its weakest, with calls by Tory MPs for her to stand down after her failure to secure a majority.
The Financial Times describes it as an attempt to shore up her premiership against mutinous MPs as she prepares to publish the most significant piece of Brexit legislation - the Repeal Bill - on Thursday.
Manoeuvring among ambitious backbenchers and pro-EU MPs is intensifying ahead of the bill, it adds.
The EU, a sure fire way to poison the Tory party.
Did i really hear that she'd be saying in this relaunch "for the many, not the privileged few" ?
As an aside, there's a mock-momentum movement by supporters of Rhys-Mogg and yet another rebrand of a very tired looking party, which is completely out of policy ideas to the point that they have to borrow from Labour. Remember, they've been in government for even years, five of which in coalition. Collectively they look incompetent, tired and ideologically bankrupt.
I can't see what the likes of Davis, Johnson etc can do to change the party's fortunes. With Brexit the Conservatives look like a one policy party, with more MPs opposed than in favour. If we do indeed crash out of the EU with no deal and people do become much poorer, then the electoral backlash will be brutal and completely deserved.
Does anyone actually care what she says any more? Its not like she can actually DO anything, is it? She's completely powerless, as todays "oh god... please let me do something?! ANYTHING?!!! appeal to the opposition parties demonstrates.
I'm finding her ongoing humiliation fairly compelling. Not to mention highly entertaining. Its a proper slow motion car crash. A thoroughly deserved one. She wants to be gone, clearly. The party want her gone. The country seems mostly indifferent. Yet once again the interests of the various nutter factions in the Tory party take precedence over everything.
For now.
It won't last, of course. Even though they know its mental to do so, the ego's of Boris, DD, Gove and whoever else won't let them spend the summer not preparing a leadership bid. Soon as they've had a week off, they'll be canvassing support and briefing against each other.
Oh well... in the meantime I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoying the sight of a 'government' in a state of total paralysis. And I'm sure it'll continue. I mean.... can anyone honestly see a general election, no matter who is leading the Tory party, delivering anything other than another hung parliament?
So I'm also hoping that this state of stasis also means that the whole Brexit process is also placed in cold storage indefinitely, or even better, collapses completely
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/you-do-know-that-im-the-leader-of-the-labour-party-corbyn-asks-may-20170710131463 ]Total desperation![/url] 😀
Indeed. The problem with leadership challenges is that internal party disputes can get very nasty in public, further toxifying the Conservative brand. The party's slim majority won't help them one bit, the in-fighting will continue even with a Boris, Davis, Gove or whoever in charge.
There should have been a change of leader immediately after the election, but the decision makers within the party know that with Brexit negotiations underway and the need to push the required legislation through parliament, a leadership change would be one distraction too many. They're suddenly weakened and vulnerable in the media for the first time in living memory too, not even the Murdoch papers, the Telegraph or the two far right tabloids could summon enough votes to scupper a hung parliament.
The current crop of party heavyweights promise more of the same, or a lurch further right that simply won't win them votes. The only logical way out for them is to parachute someone with centrist appeal like Ruth Davidson into a safe seat and for her to mount a successful leadership bid.
the torygraph really have turned on her
Even CMD had the humility to know he'd made a huge cock up and had to go.
There's not a great deal that the newspapers can do, if May goes before the end of summer there's likely to be another General Election which Labour will likely win.
Remember, the wealthy owners and editors of the right wing press have pushed hard for Brexit, which is looking increasingly like it'll be unworkable. If I were Corbyn, I think I'd remind Theresa May that it was an internal dispute in her own party which got us all into this mess in the first place.
I think she'd have gone in a heartbeat, if they'd let her. Did you see the look on here face when the results were announced? And she's looked more like a haunted shop dummy with every day thats passed since.
The Tory high command are operating a 'you broke it, you own it' policy. They know theres no way the country will stomach another leadership election, and certainly not another general election, without properly punishing this rank incompetence. So they're all just stuck in this excruciating (or absolutely ****ing hilarious, depending on your persuasion) powerless limbo, because every single other alternative is potentially far worse.
The longer this debacle goes on though, the less likely it is that a hard Brexit, or indeed any Brexit at all will be able to proceed. No matter what the fevered, fetid little imaginations of Liam Fox and John Redwood would like to believe.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/please-stay-while-we-savour-your-humiliation-britain-tells-may-20170609129137 ]The usual accurate summary from the Mash[/url]
