The tension in her hands is worrying..
Is the change that corbyn wants to make not more just a change to the automatic re-selection rules?
I think they want/need/desire 'Trigger ballots' as opposed to automatic re-selection plus fewer nominations required from PLP for Leadership ballots to the membership.
Why would Momentun *not* want that? Also, it's pretty hard to logically argue against.
Jeebus!
That picture up there
Foster is the boss there & no mistake!
Dear me. The Maybot is really, really looking like a badly made up extra in an old Hammer Horror film, isn't she?
How long will this very public humiliation go on for? Even I'm starting to feel sorry for her
How long will this very public humiliation go on for?
Only reason she is still in place is no one wants the poisoned chalice. I thought chances were she would be gone pretty quick but no one seems to want the job. Which I think says something about the Brexit mess.
likewise, after her shocking performance in the GE i was sure she'd get her marching orders very quickly. hey ho. it all just has to run it's course i guess.
She's being kept on to be the fall guy.
bikebouy - Memberhe was quoted "the EU was born of believers, I'm a believer" Quite what that means I don't really know
It means there's not a trace of doubt in his mind, and he couldn't leave the EU if he tried.
This Momentum red peril paranoia is getting so old. The election showed that eveb *if* Corbyn is being controlled by Momentum (remotely?) it's not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.
likewise, after her shocking performance in the GE i was sure she'd get her marching orders very quickly. hey ho. it all just has to run it's course i guess.
It was said straight away that the last thing anyone needed was a leadership election, so she's been told to get TF on wiv it and everything else can wait!
This Momentum red peril paranoia is getting so old. The election showed that eveb *if* Corbyn is being controlled by Momentum (remotely?) it's not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.
I don't believe the majority of the electorate were even aware of Momentum. The newspapers focused on Corbyn's history with the IRA as they thought that would make more impact. Ask any 18-21 year old if they know who momentum is and you'll get blank faces.
Personally I hope her yeast infection clears up and she stops taking out her anger on us poor proles.
Isn't Momentum just 'the party membership' anyway? They may disagree with other party members, but that's allowed isn't it?
Is this an accurate description of Momentum?
[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum_(organisation) ]Wiki[/url]
Isn't Momentum just 'the party membership' anyway?
Not necessarily. We just had our labour MP overturn a tiny majority of 300 to a labour majority of 5000. James is certainly not a Corbynite, by any stretch of the imagination. But neither has he said anything against him (Turnham-esque?). The momentum lot did try and get established and cause a bit of mischief, and then we had [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39770703 ]this.[/url]. They both got about as far as each other, and were equally well received by the local labour party.
You can't just rock up and overturn an MP or candidate who has a strong relationship with the local party, and impose your own. It doesn't work like that
Isn't Momentum just 'the party membership' anyway? They may disagree with other party members, but that's allowed isn't it?
Yup, they're members and it's perfectly reasonable for them to want a PLP that's inline with their views and rules that make it easier for a leader with their views to get onto the Leadership Ballot.
Which surely supports the idea that they might well implement those changes.
it's not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.
I think a *lot* of people saw through the giveaway/pork barrel manifesto. I know serious Corbyn supporters who didn't believe he could do it. I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don't believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I'd have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical.
yip, corbyn has already achieved the fundamental change in labour tbh.Lifer - Member
This Momentum red peril paranoia is getting so old. The election showed that eveb *if* Corbyn is being controlled by Momentum (remotely?) it's not a turn off to the electorate. Nor was the manifesto.
I´d agree democracy is quite a hard thing to argue against! 😆outofbreath - Member
Is the change that corbyn wants to make not more just a change to the automatic re-selection rules?
I think they want/need/desire 'Trigger ballots' as opposed to automatic re-selection plus fewer nominations required from PLP for Leadership ballots to the membership.Why would Momentun *not* want that? Also, it's pretty hard to logically argue against.
Yup, they're members and it's perfectly reasonable for them to want a PLP that's inline with their views and rules that make it easier for a leader with their views to get onto the Leadership Ballot.Which surely supports the idea that they might well implement those changes.
Now, about your claim that Momentum has taken over the party. Evidence, please!
I think a *lot* of people saw through the giveaway/pork barrel manifesto. I know serious Corbyn supporters who didn't believe he could do it. I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don't believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I'd have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical.
Just to confirm, we're talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?
Just to confirm, we're talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?
Still didn't win. I didn't vote for him for the reasons oob states.
Just to confirm, we're talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?
No, we are talking about the total cluster **** that May is making, you are getting sidetracked by a tory boy desperately trying to distract from what a complete shambles the tories are in.
I think a *lot* of people saw through the giveaway/pork barrel manifesto. I know serious Corbyn supporters who didn't believe he could do it. I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don't believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I'd have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical
Aaand yet Corbyn has a 7pt lead over May now?
And the Tories are so terrified they'd lose an election right now that they are being played like kippers by the DUP ?
In fact, given that Labour's manifesto promised more for 95% of people, oob's assertion must have something in it given the result, even after correcting for tribalism and the press!
I´d agree democracy is quite a hard thing to argue against!
Well it is. PLP moderates can hardly say "We have to have these rules because the membership can't be trusted to pick a leader." I'm not quite sure what argument they could employ. It feels kind of inevitable to me.
Just to confirm, we're talking about the party that substantially increased its number of seats, and confounded every prediction made at the start of the campaign?
That's right. The party that, even with a pork barrel giveaway Manifesto, failed to get anywhere near a party that's spent 7 years doing unpopular stuff with a leader everyone agrees is worse than useless.
Rockape63 - MemberI don't believe the majority of the electorate were even aware of Momentum.
I think a lot of people are [i]aware[/i] of them, since the press has made a ludicrous noise about them. Show my dad a picture of a Labour rally with 5000 people and he'll say "they're all Momentum". But Labour has 517000 members, Momentum has 24000 meaning that in any given town they have about enough members to take over an Argos.
They agree that now! Look back 8 weeks ago:with a leader everyone agrees is worse than useless.
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In fact, I went back to the "is May about to call an election thread" and there are some absolute classic predictions in there.
Pretty good!jekkyl - Membervery clever.
Labour are all over the place at the moment and in no place to wage a GE campaign, let alone one in 2 months! but at least it means we will get to hear Corbyn's policies unfettered by media bias and freely heard through the media. Time to get your finger out Jezzer!
This one completely missed the hung parliament lame duck middle-ground where she could indeed lose.stumpyjon - MemberWell looks like the Lib Dems are the only credible option left.....
Obvious move on May's part really, she can't lose, if she gets kicked out she dodges Brexit, if she wins with a bigger majority (highly likely) she won't be having to fight an election in 2020 just as the Brexshit bomb is going off.
Binners was uncharacteristically pessimistic 😉
Tories to win.
Labour to take a hammering.
Libs to win back a fair chunk of what they lost.Bang on!
Also: UKIP finally put out of its misery as its vote is reduced to 2 old blokes and a woman who shouts at buses. All the UKIP votes going Tory to deliver an absolutely enormous majority. Labour reduced to 100 seats. Corbyn still refuses to resign and all the Momentum muppets elect him as leader again
I would be amazed if 3% of the electorate understood what you are saying.I also know serious Corbyn supporters who don't believe Corporation tax revenue is in-elastic. I'd have thought floating voters would be even more skeptical
The reality is recent elections shows you win them by selling dreams be it bring back control or tax the rich. Whether the goal is achievable is not that important it just has to be something people want to achieve ;they dont seem to concern themselves much with the details of HOW.
]]the reality is Corbyn mantra of more inclusion, helping out everyone and making the rich pay a little more - for the many not the few- was popular
We will have to wait till the next election to see if it is achievable
AlexSimon - MemberIn fact, I went back to the "is May about to call an election thread" and there are some absolute classic predictions in there.
I was happy to be so wrong tbh. I think the only bit I got right was saying Corbyn was right to back the vote for the election, while a lot of people were saying it was madness. Oh and called my own seat right when electoral calculus were saying it'd probably go tory.
It's fun reading pre-election newspaper articles though.
She/or Davies to have an interesting meeting this evening over citizenship rights, the EU have published thier agenda [url=
[/url] so it will be a laugh to see what crock may and Davis spout tomorrow about it as it sets out the EU position very clearly, all EU citizens in the UK and all UK citizens in EU will be fully protected as they are currently, no iff's, no but's.
There's no room for manuvre there, it's perfectly proper and reasonable. All the UK government can do is agree with it, unless they are serious about the 'no deal' scenario which would displace or put millions of people into poverty.
Meanwhile may refused to publicly reassure anybody over this issue and has not said a word about looking after UK expatriates.
So we have one left of centre/anti-austerity (sic) party advocating lowering corporation tax and afraid to raise MRT for high earners (for good reason) and another that favours raising both.....hmmm.....
One in power and one potentially - heaven help us all - could be in power. Or perhaps this reflects the fact that one is showing some sense despite the silly rhetoric and the other a total lack of it. Who knows?
But would be interestng to see the lack of sense option actually being applied, not least to see how people react to the lower wages and high prices that would ensue. Be careful what you wish for....Brexshit should have told folk that.....
The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement.
Does this mean until everyone currently residing here dies [ or their offspring/spouses] the EU and the court of Justice are the ultimate arbitrators of our law?
Aaand yet Corbyn has a 7pt lead over May now?
And the Tories are so terrified they'd lose an election right now that they are being played like kippers by the DUP ?
...and yet I can't help but think that Chukka and a sane shadow cabinet would have beaten May by a landslide. (Except there wouldn't have been an election because she'd never have dared to take them on.)
...and I don't think the Tories are scared of losing at all. This is a superb time to be in opposition. If Corbyn is the one on 310 seats in the Autumn he's going to look back on the last two years of nightmare as the good old days! What the tories are scared of is another hung parliament where they're in the hot seat. And that looks highly likely.
The reality is recent elections shows you win them by selling dreams be it bring back control or tax the rich.
In my view what Corbyn/Trump/Brexit show is that if you think you're going to lose you can promise Unicorns. In the last elections I can think of all the parties who thought they might win kept it relatively real. (Clinton/Miliband/Cameron)
So we have one left of centre/anti-austerity (sic) party advocating lowering corporation tax and afraid to raise MRT for high earners (for good reason) and another that favours raising both.....hmmm.....
Favours? I'm not so sure. The one who is in power has to openly accept the need for competitive corp tax and competitive MRT for high earners. The one who thinks he's gonna lose isn't constrained by reality in his promises.
Does this mean until everyone currently residing here dies [ or their offspring/spouses] the EU and the court of Justice are the ultimate arbitrators of our law?
I interpret that as yes in the context of EU citizens currently living in an EU country that is not thier original country.
I belive it doesn't make any allowances for British people who might want to move country within the EU after the deal is signed off.
But that's just how i read it, so those Brits who are already living on the mainland are protected, and those EU citizens living in the UK won't be left high and dry.
But it makes no allowances for those British who might want to live in another EU country in future.
Again that's just my interpretation.
I am not sure the brexit voters want the EU to be able to dictate rules* to us for the next 80 years or so.
* that is what they will say
Cameron and Osborne just argued that we would be in peril [ post the EU] and the only money that stayed safe was my kids piggy bank. It was all they ever said and there was nothing positive about the EUIn the last elections I can think of all the parties who thought they might win kept it relatively real.
It might also show that being incredibly pessimistic [ or realistic if you prefer] is not that inspirational
I am not sure we are disagreeing much just emphasising different aspects of the same thing
outofbreath - Member...and yet I can't help but think that Chukka and a sane shadow cabinet would have beaten May by a landslide
The Chuka who pulled out of the leadership election because he hadn't realised that being leader would mean getting lots of press scrutiny? That Chuka?
The Chuka who pulled out of the leadership election because he hadn't realised that being leader would mean getting lots of press scrutiny? That Chuka?
Yes him, he'd harvest votes hand over fist.
Cameron and Osborne just argued that we would be in peril [ post the EU] and the only money that stayed safe was my kids piggy bank. It was all they ever said and there was nothing positive about the EU
The whole Remain campaign was simply shouting "racist". That easily lost them the 2pc that mattered.
A better 'Cameron' example of what I'm talking about would be the closing days of the 2015 election. Suddenly out of nowhere Cameron promised an unrealistic additional wedge for the NHS, dwarfing what Labour were offering. From the timing I'm pretty sure that was his Unicorn promise. He thought he was going to lose, or end up in a coalition - either way he'd never be held to his promise.
Oops, did you mean that? I thought it was tax issues.....
Yes him, he'd harvest votes hand over fist.
Of course he wouldn't - he would just be another middling character with no proper labour policies.
Corbyn got votes because of who is is and what his policies are.
ooooof on TV now Mays campaign paying voters to vote after being canvassed by a call centre ...actual film footage of em doing it.....estimates of 20 million people being contacted?
Of course he wouldn't - he would just be another middling character with no proper labour policies.
Like Blair. 😀
Corbyn got votes because of who is is and what his policies are.
Corbyn lost because of who he is and what his policies are.
option actually being applied, not least to see how people react to the lower wages and high prices that would ensue. Be
My take home has been going down for the last few years, I've not noticed prices going down either
Like Blair.
Yes, like Blair, bloody awful.
Corbyn lost because of who he is and what his policies are.
Nope.
Mmmm... And because he wasn't the Tories
Chukka is a busted flush. Starmer on the other hand is much more the real deal. Come to think of it, if we put Starmer and Hammond in a room and told them to sort out the Brexshit mess together and ignore the idiots around them, we might have some progress. No chance, sadly....
