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in the move to CD a lot of pressing plants closed. Now supply is well below demand...
... if we tried to sell them for what they cost to produce we’d never sell any
Yeah, I know the cost. We priced up some vinyl 12" a couple of years ago, and swiftly decided against it!
I know someone who runs a small indy label and they can put out runs of 500/1000 at between £15-18 per record. Not much profit margin though.
That makes the big label reissues at £25-30 a pop overpriced though in my book.
Cougar, easy there tiger, it’s a different experience, as quite a few people have highlighted. Not for you, we get it, but maybe back off a bit on the crusade?
It's not a crusade, I'm more than happy that people enjoy things. I just think some of the justifications for it are a bit thin. Arguing that records are great because you can listen to an album is technically correct but a nonsense, there are many ways of listening to albums that don't involve buying a turntable. If you're arguing that you enjoy the ritual (as you also said) then I can totally get behind that.
Cougar – what’s your stance on classic cars, retro bikes and antique furniture!? 🙂
I'm not particuarly into any of those things but yeah, it's broadly the same argument. Classic [whatever] things might well be lovely things, I would love something like a late-model Capri but I wouldn't be under any illusions that it'd be anything other than a nostalgic indulgence. I acually Kickstarted the Spectrum Next which is a successor to the ZX Spectrum computer of the 1980s, which might be a better anaolgy.
That’s unlikely, he pops up on every vinyl thread with the same responses.
Fair enough. The OP asked a question and I'm committing the capital crime of disagreeing with you, but if I'm just being tedious then I'll butt out.
The fact remains, for us humans, we get back what we put in, and our memories are generally fuller when we have had to make an effort to do something. Hitting "shuffle" on your ipod or spotify is easy, convinient and allows you to listen to a wide range of music with very low effort. Chances are, that convenience, also probably means you are listening in a lower fidelity, on PC speakers, through headphones, listening to a more compressed format. Chances are, you've forgotten all you have listened too 5 min after hitting pause.
The opposite is actually going to a gig! Massive phaff for just an hours music, but the memories of that hour are likely to stay with you for some time.
By listening to LP's you are forgoing some of the convience for more of an experience. Yes, pompous perhaps, but that's the trade off. Chances are, the sort of people with room for a turntable and LP's also has a decent amplifier and speaker set up, something able to much better render music than the typically streaming setup. Again, more of an event in itself.
We often ride bikes not to actually get somewhere, but for the act of the journey itself. I'm suggesting the turntables & LP's are just a natural extension of that, the human characteristic to want to be furfilled by what we do 🙂
CD:
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LP:
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Chances are, unless you are a good cook, the real fish meal actually doesn't taste that good, and takes 10 times as long to make, but you'll remember what you had for dinner the next day... 😉
FLAC:
Sorry maxtorque but for my palate you have those dishes the wrong way round. Though I agree nothing comes close to live music which is why despite having a pretty decent hi-fi I enjoy listening to and performing in live concerts.
That’s a shit analogy, because nobody would argue that a fish finger sarnie could be bettered.
I bought my missus a Teac turntable a couple of Christmas’s again.
It was about £300 I think with an inbuilt amp and connects to Bluetooth speakers - which is great because you can move the speaker to any room you want and keep the deck in one place.
After about two months she declared it was the best present she’d ever received. So I guess she’s pleased with it !!
I dunno whether the sound is technically better but it definitely sounds ‘richer’.
We had a few boxes of vinyl already but I don’t think I’d want to start collecting vinyl now tho - it uses loads of space.
If you don’t get on with it you’ll be able to sell it on pretty easily I guess.
You're right slowoldman, especially in a small venue. I can play a Tele through a 100W Marshall Plexi and 4x12 and record it using an appropriate microphone ideally placed in relation to the speaker cone. When it's played back through through the stereo (Kenwood amp and Monitor Audio speakers) as loud as 75W per channel will go it sounds too rounded and smooth compared to the real thing. The bite and attack have gone.
Yes, just not a Crosley
There is something more lustful about vinyl, a much more tactile experience than CD, it almost forces you to sit down and listen. You have to get up and turn the record over. Albums were almost constructed in such a way that they would tell a story over one side then a different one on the other.
Might be all shite, but I still get a wee bit excited if I buy a coloured version of an album or find something that I've wanted for way too long. I'm not even what anyone would call fanatical, I just like what I like.
I like the idea of another turntable (actually think I might have a cs505 rotting in the garage somewhere) but I'd hardly ever use it I'm sure. In fact, if somebody rented out half desent USB turntables I'd like to have one for a month or so, listen to and then digitise all my old vinyl if it still plays.
Then I'd send it back and probably never miss it again
Then we buy an album and give it our full attention whilst cooking
You’re either cooking wrong or listening wrong. 🤔
I missed out CDs altogether, somehow. I use Spotify, Band camp etc but vinyl is more for "occasions", however impromptu. Like last weekend, forced to stay home, sat on the balcony with the windows all open and cranked up Scientist Rids the World of the Evil Curse of the Vampires - glorious!
Or the weekend before when a thread on here prompted me to dig out all my stoner rock lps. Records all over the floor like in a 70s teenager's bedroom.
The sound quality is neither here nor there, I doubt I'd appreciate a 7k CD player with my ears and the rubbish I like.
There is something more lustful about vinyl, a much more tactile experience than CD,
Absolutely.
it almost forces you to sit down and listen. You have to get up and turn the record over.
You've got a needy child. If you're not sitting down and listening to music that's your own fault.
Albums were almost constructed in such a way that they would tell a story over one side then a different one on the other.
Again, absolutely, many were. And I genuinely miss that. From 60s / 70s concept albums to things like The Wall or Operation Mindcrime, or other albums that just exist as a whole entity generally, so so much music is ingrained into my brain where x follows y follows z and tells a story. There's a dying art in constructing an album.
But again, you're describing albums not records. I could similarly wax lyrical about albums on cassette.
Bought a (Kindle) copy of Greg Milner's book. I'm into it - 194 pages consumed since yesterday morning. Thanks for the heads up on that.
I'm not buying a turntable. Now I know what's behind this mythical warmth...
I'm confused by all this talk of levels of effort. Surely listening to music on any medium should be relaxing and enjoyable?
Just received Lana Del Rey's Born to Die (Paradise edition) on CD.
It's the 120 mm diameter silver things for me!
I could similarly wax lyrical about albums on cassette.
Ohh now that is a truly hideous format. Rendered 100% defunct by the ability to record digitally. We released a split tape with another hardcore band from Manchester a couple of years ago because thats what "the kids" were into. Some folks are just too niche / hipster for their own good.
I love vinyl too. I would always choose it for 'sitting down with a coffee and closed eyes' listening. I think the sound is nicer, more natural, more three-dimensional, and I prefer it.
If some or all of those differences are imagined, I don't mind - I still prefer it.
Shame it has become so expensive but the quality of the new vinyl pressings seems v.good. It's amazing how flimsy some of the older vinyl feels in comparison.
I bought a record bath for lockdown.
And a new amp.
And £200 on speaker cable and it was worth it.
Currently filling all the gaps in our John Prine collection from ebay. And pondering a speaker upgrade to do them justice.
And £200 on speaker cable and it was worth it.
You must have some serious hi-fi.
All hi-fi is serious 🙂
Should I buy a turntable?
You knew this was going to happen, didn't you?
You knew this was going to happen, didn’t you?
It always happens! I did want an answer to a genuine question. And then STW syndrome manifested.
I'll add my own experiences.
Growing up in the 80's it was all vinyl until CD's starting to come out and then we all swapped to CD.
I have kept all of my vinyl but in the late 90's i got rid of quite a few CD's.
I don't regret dumping the CD's but I do regret not buying albums in the 90's and 00's on vinyl as a lot of the vinyl was sold in such low numbers due to CD sales that it is now almost impossible to source at reasonable prices.
I sold my last CD player over 10 years ago and most of what I listen to is generally streamed, internet radio or on my iPod that lives in the car.
However when I do have time I like nothing more than sitting down and playing an album on my turntable. Both my amp and turnable were bought used and between them are over 50 years old.
Neither the turntable or amp will depreciate and in the two years that i have owned both they have actually increased in value.
You will either like vinyl or you won't but it is still a format to be considered, just that it is now quite expensive. Either way just enjoy your music however you listen to it.
Neither the turntable or amp will depreciate and in the two years that i have owned both they have actually increased in value.
Good point - my old NAD amp seems to be going for more on ebay now than I paid for it 25 years ago.
Makes the Rega purchase easier to justify (perhaps).
Vinyl has a culture, artwork, cool shops, a feel when you put the needle on the record, a history, it looks great and to my ear has a warm sound of it's own. I love going to city centres and trawling record shops, especially in the winter months. There's so much stuff on the web catering to vinyl collecting as a hobby that it keeps you fired up.
Cd's can compete sound wise but miss out on absolutely all other aspects. Mine are in the loft in bags for life.
Theres some great short films on youtube about the whole vinyl thing that might just inspire you.
And £200 on speaker cable and it was worth it.
...hope you got directional ones!?
lol
And £200 on speaker cable and it was worth it.
About the best speaker cable you can get has "13A" written on it. I'll bet you £200-worth of cable that you won't be able to tell them apart in a double-blind test.
It always happens! I did want an answer to a genuine question. And then STW syndrome manifested.
I guess the answer is, "If you want to".
The medium is far less important than the music.
If you spot differences between a £600 system and a £6000 system, you aren't really getting it. You're looking for the wrong thing in your music.
You’re looking for the wrong thing in your music.
I'm no audiophile and have no desire to be. I'm interested in music, not imperfections in its recording and presentation. I don't want to hear saliva drip from the reed of a bassoon!
As I said in an earlier post, it's CDs for me.
I don’t want to hear saliva drip from the reed of a bassoon!
Quote of the thread!
That bit wasn't directed at you Derek, just the thread in general.
I think you have made the correct choice.
We released a split tape with another hardcore band from Manchester a couple of years ago because thats what “the kids” were into.
I'd be interested to know who these two bands are.
I don’t want to hear saliva drip from the reed of a bassoon!
I haven't heard that live and the buggers sit right behind me.
Improve your manual technique.
I've been through the full cycle (i.e. I'm old) and have settled on current set top as it meets my needs.
I have separates, old denon amp, Sansui turntable (with massive sentimental value) a DAB/FM tuner, Monitor Audio floorstanders and a Bluetooth adaptor to stream from phone/mac.
When we moved house we were lucky enough to have a room that we could dedicate as a music room.
I have really enjoyed getting back into vinyl. I've got plenty of albums stretching back to my youth and older stuff that i've listened to, but i made a promise to myself that i wouldn't buy any 'old' stuff, so I've rediscovered the pleasure of actually thinking about what I'm going to spend my £20-30 on, reading reviews etc. rather than just pressing 'add to library' on Apple Music. For the times i'm not sat in there listening, streaming is an ideal, practical solution.
I think i prefer he sound quality of vinyl, but accept that a part of that is just perception and satisfaction in achieving a reasonable set up on budget.
There's also the fact that you can't beat skinning up on a 80's dub 12" and settling in for a while.
You know what I miss?
Cycling on b roads and seeing miles of musical crime scene tape from jammed cassettes shining in the hedges. It's up there with white dog shit.
Bring old tech back.