Hey folks,
Got a bit of a personal problem here and looking for any advice or support.
Over the years I have had a few issues, but thankfully recognised them and sought help for them.
Just before christmas i was in a bit of a pickle and again, saw a therapist and overcame my issues. Come January i started training for a marathon, which was 4 months of 3-4 runs a week. Something i really focused upon.
Since my marathon, i have been having the odd mood swing. This has left me without patience, short tempered and ultimately speaking to my wife and daughter (who is 9) in a very condescending and negative way. This has come to a head with my family. My wife is on her last straw with it and my daughter has said she has 'lost her dad'. Which is utterly heart breaking.
I mention the marathon training, as this is the clear line in the sand where i changed, according to my wife. And in hindsight, i tend to agree.
I am booked in with my therapist for next week and hope to resolve these issues. what is frustrating is i cant pin point what the cause or trigger is. I will see something that i dont like and it will start the process. I will start nit picking, making snide comments and generally not be loving, caring or any of the positive traits that i know i can be. It can be something small, like dishes not put in the dishwasher that starts the downward spiral. And i know this isnt the issue, but its a reason to 'get moody'.
I am trying to stay positive and see this as a challenge to overcome, rather than spiral downwards and be harsh on myself (despite knowing this is all my doing).
Has anyone else been in this situation? What did you do to overcome it? Do you have any coping mechanisms that you use to snap you out of the negative mood you are in? Did you get to the bottom of the cause?
Clearly being focused on something like a marathon kept my mind, body and soul in check, but ideally i'd rather avoid being like this, rather than rely on a training plan to keep me sane.
Any thoughts, feedback or help is much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
It’s impressive that you’ve recognised the issue, or accepted that it is one after it was pointed out, so without being patronising - well done.
Regular exercise is the only thing that works for me*… but at the right level. Too much can be as bad as none. My family are sympathetic to that though and are probably similar themselves too.
This may be helped by the fact I’ve never had much drive for anything career or status related. But I recognise a lot of people suffer from the stress of work, providing for a family etc.
Don’t be too hard on yourself though, nobody is perfect no matter what they might try to project.
*haven’t tried anything else tbh.
In my experience, it's a background stress (in my case work or cash concerns) that drives my negative behaviours. Getting some headspace (time out on bike / walking the dog) is my coping mechanism. I know that when I've got a load on my plate then I can be shorter tempered with my family so offloading that in some way is one of my strategies. It's difficult though as it's typically the fact that I'm working longer hours that causes the problem - so finding time to myself is a challenge.
I'd say run more - it's time for yourself and might be just what you need in balance ?
I recognise the traits, I have a tendency to the same. But then I read an article (and I'm annoyed, and frustrated that I can't remember who wrote it or where it was so can't find it again) - but it was a very basic piece that said we can't affect what happens to us but we can decide our reaction.
I've read stuff like that 1000 times before but this time it just landed. It was just before Christmas last year, and I made a promise then. I'm not going to be moody / grumpy* any more.
My wife and two grown up kids said that it was impossible, being moody was part of me (which really also hit home, that it was to them a defining trait of me). So we discussed, and I explained (and here's where the article would be useful) that they and others will still do things that annoy me, it's inevitable, and I'll probably react. But, and this is the key bit (and the bit I *'ed up above) that will be that.
The bit that was defining me and affecting me was letting stuff like that turn into a general mood, where it festered and niggled and led to the snide comments and passive aggressive stuff I recognise in your post, and went on for hours or days.
I liken it to rain. We have occasional sharp showers now, but we don't have days on end of drizzle, because when I find myself getting like that I tell myself, and I have practised, and I have also committed verbally to lots of people and given them permission to point out when I'm breaking my commitment - that the reaction is one I am CHOOSING to make and I have a different choice if I want it.
It's sounds really easy, it does take practise and is hard, but then it's also really easy. And it's definitely worth the effort.
It's your choice. Just make a different one.
Clearly being focused on something like a marathon kept my mind, body and soul in check, but ideally i'd rather avoid being like this, rather than rely on a training plan to keep me sane.
To be honest, I think some people (and mostly I'm thinking about myself here) need something to anchor themselves. And training can be that anchor.
I don't train for events but I do train in such a way that I am continually testing myself. I also get to update spreadsheets and see the line (hopefully) going in the right direction.
For me I know the root cause is the kind of existential crisis that seems to affect a lot of men in middle age (although for me the existential questions started when I was eight years old but the volume has been getting turned up lately).
Reading and thinking more about philosophy helped. Starting with Stoicism but I eventually found the Existentialist philosophies to be more useful.
Therapy can also help, but just be prepared for it to not help much at all. You might find your therapist has put you in a box and is trying to get your symptoms to fit their picture of you. Ask me how I know.
Personally I never overcame it and I still fall back into being particularly negative and hopeless, but I at least know what I need to do to rebuild the structures that I use to cope. That's all I can really do, I reckon.
But yeah, when I do find I have to rebuild, sleeping and training are the cornerstones of the structures. Without those two things everything else falls apart, so don't feel like it's a bad thing if you have to rely on training.
You need a dog.
A creature with a permanent positive outlook.
Always glad to see you
Needs a commitment from you to train and care for them.
A companion for the runs.
Something that you can focus on learning about.
If you go for a rescue, I swear they actually appreciate the second chance.
It's sounds really easy, it does take practise and is hard, but then it's also really easy. And it's definitely worth the effort.
It's your choice. Just make a different one.
I'm liking that. Need to try and practice it
I think what theotherjonv posted is good.
imho there is a lot of truth in what a lot of people see as mindfulness, Buddhism or meditation etc and often write off as flaky hippy crap. But it comes down to understanding the 2 aspects of your thought process, the immediate and reactive and the slower reasoning thought. Habits and practice (or simply understanding that it happens) can train you to rely on either or both in different situations. Through that we can have more control of our thoughts and reactions. Meditation etc is just one way to do it.
Exercise does a lot of the thinking/processing for us but it may happen subconciously - we know it works but we don't know how or how to bring that into home or work life.
There may well be a personal point that makes you more susceptible to bad outcomes (of any scale) or criticism etc. That's probably true of all of us in some ways - in some cases it's called trauma and some might see it as simply how the world and life shapes us. Find the root cause of triggers and try to train our thought process from reactive to something we're mostly in control of and things may change.
Are you eating well?
Are you eating well?
Good point. There's some interesting suggestions about the extent that gut health is related to brain health, that it may be the most influential part of general health (physical and environment).
Diversion.
If something becomes irritating then go for a pee or drink a glass of water (one might well follow the other 😊 ) while you decide whether its worth the fallout of a snippy comment.
As others have said, well done for realising and acknowledging (not intended to be patronising!)
Life is busy and I reckon for most of us it gets progressively harder until it gets easier. Who knows when that change happens but I'm not there yet.
Is this a case of know thyself? I think I know the things I need to keep me sane and tolerable to others. Regular, out-of-breath exercise is high up that list, generally riding or running but I like being in the water too. Mrs Tyred knows this and likens me to an energetic dog, I need exercising or I get grumpy and start chewing the furniture.
I always make a conscious effort to be thankful for what I've got. The kids do things all the time that annoy the bejesus out of me (small things, really not worth bothering about in the grand scheme of things) but then I remember that they'll both have moved out in 3 months' time and I'll miss their annoying thoughtless sh*t so much.
Need to try and practice it
In both senses of the word.
1/ The practical application of a theory
2/ The act of doing something regularly to improve proficiency
And remember getting annoyed isn't the same thing. People do annoying shit all the time, and need to be told. Just don't then walk around under a grey cloud for the next 2 days because they did it. That's on you.
This is a recognised medical condition, it's called "getting old." If you do find a cure, let me know.
Do you have other unresolved issues? What I mean by this is, are you coming home from work already in a heightened state and not getting rid of that before dealing with your family? So your wife gets it in the neck for loading the dishwasher like a raccoon when what you're really simmering about is getting a bollocking from your boss because something went wrong that afternoon?
Other than that, idk. Cut down or quit anything which might affect your mood. That glass of wine after work, the six mugs of coffee during the day, anything else 'recreational.' They give an instant reward but at what cost, all caffeine does is steal time from tomorrow.
@v7fmp mate I could have written that word for word 6 months a go, I also found myself knocking on the door of a therapist and I'm glad I did, my home life has improved vastly.
For me it was discovery that I was permanently angry, generally about the state of the world and the injustices and unfairness that seems to be every where, coupled with a few personal things at work that also fitted that general thread.
What helped for me was to avoid the news completely, I already have no social media, and strictly limit some of the threads that I read on here, it's helped a lot.
Obviously your personal journey will probably be completely different to mine, but just try making small changes to anything that you finds effects your mood negatively, and good luck with the therapy.
I get like this when I've been doing a lot of training and not eating/sleeping enough. Day to day stresses can contribute too. I'm not an expert but from what I've read I think my cortisol level becomes chronically elevated, which seems to trigger a spiral of worse sleep/more snacking/higher cortisol, requiring proper rest and good nutrition to bring it back down. It seems that the older I get, the less training is required for me to get into this state. Which I think fits with the theory that the older you get, the more recovery you need.
It's interesting that your symptoms seems to have started when you stopped training, which I guess is the opposite of what I'm describing here. But how long ago did you do the marathon? Could there still be lingering fatigue? Have you been eating/sleeping well since? Oh and are you still training now? Maybe you just need a good rest.
I've been there too, about 3 years ago.
I'll pitch in with gut health as a good place to start.
I've made HUGE improvements on my mental well-being since seeing Helen (I don't want to call her a nutritionist because she is and does so much more).
Another big lifestyle change for me was to stop 'pointless' training (eg the gym) and to start working on skills that were 'useful', so I now do martial arts again, and bell ringing which gives something back to the community.
My swimming laps in a pool has been swapped for membership at a lake, that I swim in all year round, where I've met a great group of like-minded people who support each other.
I'm not as fit or as strong as I was, but I really do feel happier, so I can live with that, and more importantly my family see this too.
I cold shower every morning and do a 36hr fast every first Saturday of the month, these things are difficult for me, but they remind me that I can cope with hardships and generally being uncomfortable, which in turn helps me with the little things in life that would normally have sent me over the edge (your dishwasher etc).
I don't want to come across as a self-righteous prick, but I was damaging my relationships and spiralling a few years ago, and so my first step was recognising this, which you're already at, I quit drinking there and then (Boxing day about 3 years ago), and I've been on a journey of self-improvement ever since.
There's a reason behind all of my activities, I still MTB once a week, but I've slowed it down because I've realised I don't want to be fast, I want to enjoy the forest, and so I ride SS on a very quiet bike taking time to stop occasionally.
Also, avoiding the news as said above, I didn't realise until reading it just then, that it makes such a difference!
I hope you find a way off of the knife edge you are walking along, and it's not too late for your daughter to get her dad back, let that be the motivation if you needed it.
There's a bit of meditation about acknowledging the feeling, the letting it pass rather than reacting to it.
I'm not currently meditating, or ever really that restful/mindful. But it is something that has stuck with me, feel the feeling, wait a bit, let it pass.
I'm still far from a paragon of zen, but in having a fraught time with my wife for a while on Friday evening, I listened to what she was saying, saw it from her perspective, realised I'd been a bit of a tool and we talked through it rather than it escalating into something through how I reacted.
There was some therapy in there too, which I went into with the intention that I wanted it to help and to work, so I took it seriously and committed, something I think it would have been easy to avoid and be cynical of. I also cycle to work at least 3 times a week and do something fun like climbing once a week too, exercise doesn't need to have hours dedicated to it.
You need a dog
Also, part of my solution, although with her being sick and hard work for the first 18 months a real sense of stress too. I have no idea how it goes when she's not around any longer as I might just break at that point.
Good luck OP.
Live in a flat with a large family living above you. Make sure they have at least two to four kids aged between 4-6
Asian family above me. 3 kids, or should i say baby elephants. Run around and what sounds like taking a massive jump. Or the ball. dunt....dunt...dunt..dunt.dunt.duntduntdintdunt.
It use to bother the shit out of me. I couldnt concentrate. I'd be constantly listening out.
Then one day it got too much and I hammered on the ceiling, and shouted up some expletives. I was miffed to say the least.
Then i heard it.
...."Happy birthday to you"... And i realized at that point, it wasnt them, it was me, i was being unreasonable. Up there was a family,a real family doing real family stuff and i was the angry sob they unfortunately had below them. I was embarrassed by my behaviour.
So i decided at that time to make it an exercise in patience. No matter the noise, i wouldn't let it bother me.
Feel way better for it. I know its helped me in other ways. Im more of a chilled person.
So maybe find something that really annoys you but you have no control over.
Obviously if its some **** playing techno at 3am every night, go upstairs and batter the ***t but more often than not its something simple and its the mindset that has amplified the annoyance level .
Thanks all for sharing.
To cover a few points.....
Diet - i am vegetarian, so mostly eat well. I barely drink these days, maybe a couple of pints a month. Although i do sometimes get a churning stomach, although i think this might be a lactose thing, as its often after cheese. Maybe i need to seek out some sort of test to see what is going on in there.
Exercise - I am doing a little less since i finished my marathon training, but still run twice a week, do some weights and try and ride, so am fairly active. I have a silly mental block that if i dont do exercise for a couple of days i will lose all the fitness i have gained or will out weight on. Which then makes me have anxiety about what i eat. i beat myself up if i over indulge. This is either related to my initial issues or is an additional one. But something i hope to share during therapy.
Also when i was running lots, i did it before i got home from work, so it would help wash away any stress of the day. I have fallen out of that habit.
During previous therapy i did learn a few tools to help with things and admittedly i have stopped doing those. Like writing at least three positive things that happened during the day. And giving myself a few minutes, lay quietly on the sofa before i leave for work. I have already started to revisit those.
I find it so disappointing that i have come so far as a person over the last few years, with therapy, self help, changing my outlook, yet i still manage to break rule #1 at times. I am determined to banish that part of my life for good.
As Jon said, its my choice to make, it just needs to be a good one.
On the diet front (Low fodmap IBS for me), you'd be surprised that most cheese is quite low in lactose (excluding soft cheese), so fine for us who can't tolerate it. Ice-cream on the other hand ....
Exercise is definitely a head clearer for me. I listen to a book while running to stop the focusing on work thing.
The Chimp Paradox is an interesting read and I think helpful (for me and apparently Guy Martin).
Well done for being proactive as with a lot of things being able to recognise the issue is the first hurdle.
Some brilliant ideas. I did a few marathons and went straight onto long distance cycling. I didn't want to waste the fitness so did lejog just after the marathon.
I loved the planning and prep, getting a bike, actually doing it.
Done a few big tours now but ATM just enjoy day rides.
Why not get your kids involved, plan a route, meet them half way.
Just put some panniers on, any passing cycling stops for a chat. It's brilliant, I ve met some really interesting people.
Another idea, get a paper os map and walk all the local paths within 5 miles of your house. I ve found loads I never knew about.
Lack of meat in your diet making you tired and irritable?Iron deficiency a possibility?Perhaps some high powered vitamins might help.Good luck.
Been vegetarian for years, take various supplements and eat well, so I would be surprised.
I think it’s a much more deep rooted issue that I need to resolve. Which I am hoping the therapy will resolve. But I will take a look at my diet to see if there are any glaring holes that could be changing my mindset.
Are you allowed to eat fish in your diet?I know some vegetarians can be a little flexible about fish etc.
i am allowed to eat anything... 😜 i just choose not to eat animals, which does include fish/sea creatures.
As an ongoing challenge to improve myself i think i will see if i can have some sort of test done to see if i am deficient in anything. I can then plug that hole.
Sounds like you’re suffering from mild depression. Elements of what you’re talking about sounds very familiar to me. Stupid little things were enough to make me feel like I couldn’t cope. Give it an hour or so and perspective kicked in but at the time it all felt a lot. Spoke to my GP and went on a low dose of Citalopram. Been on that for two years and it’s been a big help. Similar things still niggle but no longer escalate. It’s given me the breathing room to cope with stuff as it happens, instead of letting it grumble on in the background. Currently tapering off and feel good.
thanks for the share @clubby. Certainly something i am happy to entertain if needed.
Very timely. I'm off to the docs tomorrow. Had a shitty couple of years with various issues topped by a couple of viruses that affected me through pretty much the entire winter. Physically back on the road to recovery but need a little help with the mental side.
Good luck with everything OP. I'm at breaking point, AGAIN, and my current counseling is not doing much at the moment.
@stcolin sorry to hear that. If you dont mind me asking, what sort of counselling are you using? I have had a few blocks of 'talking' to therapists and looking back dont fell like they did much. More recently i have had sessions of 'Solution Based Hypnotherapy', which sounds a bit out there, but its made genuine, positive changes to my life.
I am booked in next week to discuss the latest bout of issues i wish to resolve. Its great getting over issues, but much like an onion.. reveals another layer 🙁
Sounds like you’re suffering from mild depression. Elements of what you’re talking about sounds very familiar to me.
Good point; certainly sounds familiar to what I recall of various episodes, maybe as an early sign of something a bit more serious - losing enthusiasm for some stuff, easily irritable, etc.
The other thing that occurred to me is not sleeping well. Could just be me, but I'm grumpy as all get out after a week or so of just feeling generally tired - but don't really notice it til afterwards
Some good advice on here, but the one suggestion missing is Yoga.
Yoga isn't just about "touching your toes", but it is the unification of the mind and body. There are numerous corners of yoga practice which embody the mindfulness, meditation and physical movement mentioned above. In fact the very process of yoga practice is exactly the combination of those things. Some types of yoga have been proven to deal with deep trauma and the healing of it.
I realise that much of the world of yoga looks full of "woo woo" but in fact scientific evidence is beginning to join the dots as to why it works.
I mention it as you appear to respond well to movement/exercise as a way of handling these feelings/moods, so this suggests you'd respond well to the physical stimulation that yoga provides.
Edit: I'm now a qualified yoga instructor (very new, so not really very experienced) but if you have questions then drop me a PM.
what sort of counselling are you using
Schema therapy. It's all kind of stalled, I've had 5/6 sessions. Bit like yourself, each session seems to reveal something else that is eating away at me.
It's interesting that your symptoms seems to have started when you stopped training, which I guess is the opposite of what I'm describing here. But how long ago did you do the marathon? Could there still be lingering fatigue? Have you been eating/sleeping well since? Oh and are you still training now? Maybe you just need a good rest.
I've had similar, following coming back from the BC bike race. However I'm not so much blaming the training and physical fatigue, I think its more to do with the comedown from having had a "target" and thing to look forward to and plan for, including planning at work for my 2 week holiday etc.
Once its come and gone, thats leaving a void that is as much absence of mental thought as it is about the free time.
