[Closed] Shooting in French Alps

The French are almost communist is their approach to cars and taxing them.

Most cars you see in France are French and small to medium diesel poverty buckets. (206, 306, sort of stuff)

Driving in France you soon notice around the Holiday spots that if it's an expensive car (BMW / Audi / Range Rover) it will have a German / Lux / NL or British plate on it.

It would make sense that car jackers would surely target the spots where the expensive cars were. If an armed gang will car jack a 205 diesel (£300?) and somebody will threaten you with a Rambo knife for a bike it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this is a car jack gone very wrong.

Could also be a family dispute etc.

At the moment it's a tragedy for 2 little girls who I hope recover from this somehow.

police want to talk to the murdered mans brother. Three people in a car shot in the front of the head, killer was sitting in the front passenger seat.

The French are almost communist is their approach to cars and taxing them.

the french police are in favour of the car industry being publicly owned ?

good for them, i've had such a negative opinion of them in the past

killer was sitting in the front passenger seat

Who then gathered up all his bullet casings, got out of the door, closed the door, and scattered the casings on the ground outside?

Just reading the [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19506889 ]Q&A: Mystery over shootings near Lake Annecy, France[/url] on the Beeb. I'm still a bit flummoxed over it taking eight (or thereabouts) hours to find Zeena. It says:

[b]Why did it take eight hours to find Zeena?[/b]

The police who sealed off the crime scene were under orders not to disturb the bodies in the car before a forensics team arrived, Mr Maillaud said. Given the gravity of the crime, officers were dispatched from Paris, he said. Furthermore, the first police at the scene did not know there were two children in the family group until a link was established with the campsite. "Firemen, technicians and doctors all looked into the car through the holes in the windows but none of them saw the girl," said Lt-Col Benoit Vinnemann of the local gendarmerie. A helicopter with thermal imaging was also used to inspect the scene but it did not detect Zeena either.

Surely the first police on the scene would, while not disturbing the bodies,car, etc., or at least causing as little disturbance as possible, at least open the car and check that everyone was dead, no? Just because you've come across a shooting, it doesn't automatically mean everyone in the car is dead? Unless of course, their heads were blown to bits I guess. Hmmm.

[i]Who then gathered up all his bullet casings, got out of the door, closed the door, and scattered the casings on the ground outside?[/i]

my guess would be there from when they got out to shoot the cyclist and eldest girl.

Given that it was too messy for a professional hit I'm counting out govt agency types and pro hitmen. I'm going with criminals or terrorists. Wouldn't bet the house on it though.

As tasteless speculation goes fellas, this is a doozy.

You should read the equivalent on pistonheads, even more armchair detectives over there

Could also be a family dispute etc.

Three people in a car shot in the front of the head, killer was sitting in the front passenger seat.

As tasteless speculation goes fellas, this is a doozy.

Family roadtrip.. it's fairly obvious to me that this was just an argument about which music to have on.. the cyclist just happened to be passing at the wrong moment and got caught up in the tantrum..

case closed

As for leaving living witnesses that sounds like amateur hour.

The cyclist visually I.D'd the shooter(s). Which means the shooter(s) didn't disguise his face.

He must have been known to the family otherwise he wouldn't have shot the sister/violence of the head injury to fracture her skull as they all could have I.D him if left alive.

[i]You should read the equivalent on pistonheads, even more armchair detectives over there[/i]

You know what, I think I'll pass.

I was watching the news last night geting increasingly annoyed. Before the family had been officialy named (have they yet?) the TV cameras were in the next-door neighbour's garden, shooting footage of the back of the family's house. Plus, the neighbour gave an interview saying that the poor chap in question had said something 'interesting' before they went away.

Now, if I were the neighbour and a journo knocked on my door saying the family next door had been brutally murdered and could he please peer over my fence to film stuff that was nothing other than voyeuristic and perhaps could he ask me some questions to feed all the pointless speculation, he'd have been told to **** right off.

Reckon they were filming a Mrs.Marple special and it all went wrong

IHN when my sis in laws best friend was murdered she had a Daily Mail reporter knocking non-stop on her door and shouting through her letter box.

Yeah, it's terrible isn't it?

Good thing you have enough decency to not contribute to the pointless speculation in this case, eh?

Mrs.Marple

She get married? I'm happy for her.

If the shooter was known to the family why didn't he know there was another little girl in the car?

Good thing you have enough decency to not contribute to the pointless speculation in this case, eh?

yeah, 'cos the family and the world at large are sat glued to STW in the hope that someone's speculation will shed light on the issue..

should we show our respect by not mentioning the case to friends and colleagues too..?

[i]should we show our respect by not mentioning the case to friends and colleagues too..? [/i]

Tasteless speculation is tasteless speculation, no matter who it's between.

I think I know who did this, the government will never acknowledge it but I suspect the Mysterons are responsible.
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Mrs.Marple

She get married? I'm happy for her.

Tasteless speculation is tasteless speculation, no matter who it's between.

When a wet professionally-offended type like me thinks you're being a bit sensitive...

"If the shooter was known to the family why didn't he know there was another little girl in the car?"

Case solved !

Rubber Bucaneer...... Where is Capt Scarlett when you need him?

[i]When a wet professionally-offended type like me thinks you're being a bit sensitive... [/i]

Maybe.

But then I see this kind of thing on the Beeb news site, and it really ****s me off:

[b]Are you in the area near Lake Annecy? Send us your comments using the form below.[/b]

A mountaineering mate was out in that area for a month recently. He sealed up the vents on his van before he left, since apparently it's not uncommon for robbers to gas the vans through the vents while people are in bed and then rob them.

Really - seems more like an internet rumour to me, don't let them gas you - seal yourself in a box and suffocate instead. Presumably if they are 'gassing' people it is either with some anaesthetic like ether, or chloroform or going for a kill with CO. Either approach could easily be detected with an alarm of the type commonly found on boats and caravans to protect against accidental gas leaks etc.

My old gran used to warn me not to go near hippies because they smoked cannibals

.

hora - Member

He must have been known to the family otherwise he wouldn't have shot the sister/violence of the head injury to fracture her skull as they all could have I.D him if left alive

I'm no expert, but I [i]think[/i] children can ID people that aren't known to their family?

Really - seems more like an internet rumour to me, don't let them gas you - seal yourself in a box and suffocate instead. Presumably if they are 'gassing' people it is either with some anaesthetic like ether, or chloroform or going for a kill with CO. Either approach could easily be detected with an alarm of the type commonly found on boats and caravans to protect against accidental gas leaks etc.

This is (according to friend in the Gendarmes) what they've started using in the Basque Region[url=

Scoplamine[/url].

Seriously scary stuff.

When a wet professionally-offended type like me thinks you're being a bit sensitive...

Knickers in a twist? Then don't read it.

It's all very sad and I'm sure there is more to this than we're hearing at present.

Bit of a shit that cyclist getting caught up in whatever this shooting is..

To think, he just went out for a ride n all..

A mountaineering mate was out in that area for a month recently. He sealed up the vents on his van before he left, since apparently it's not uncommon for robbers to gas the vans through the vents while people are in bed and then rob them.

Really - seems more like an internet rumour to me

It is a urban myth, it got so bad that the Royal College of Anaesthetists sent a letter to the Caravan Club to dismiss it as rubbish.

Can't remember the full details but it went along the lines of.

1. You would need a lot of gas to fill a Caravan / Motorhome / Van (massive sized cylinder)
2. It's very expensive and not available to public
3. Anaesthetising somebody is very skilled and dangerous, pumping a load of gas into a Caravan would more than likely either have no effect or kill.
4. Nobody has ever been tested to prove it was gas and not Red Wine induced deep sleeps

I believe it comes up on Camping / Motorhome / Caravan forums as regular as "CRC are not delivering next day" does for us...

Anyway....

back to interwebs crowd sourced crime solving

Tasteless speculation is tasteless speculation, no matter who it's between.

🙂

Speculating whether this was a professional hit, a robbery gone wrong, or whatever, is hardly "tasteless".

Who do you think might be offended ?

But then I see this kind of thing on the Beeb news site, and it really ****s me off

Ah, the inevitable and obligatory dig at the BBC.

Of course ITN, Sky News, and all other news providers, haven't speculated the possible cause of this horrendous incident, it's just the BBC is it ?

TopTip : Don't watch the news on the BBC, watch it on other channels.

you never know when its your last ride.......

[i]Speculating whether this was a professional hit, a robbery gone wrong, or whatever, is hardly "tasteless". [/i]

If that's just what the speculation was/is, then no, you're right, it's not particularly tasteless I suppose; it's understandable (if slightly morbid) curiosity. Some of the comments on exactly how it happened step over the mark however. I especially liked the little joke about how it could have been the four year old girl.

[i]Ah, the inevitable and obligatory dig at the BBC.

Of course ITN, Sky News, and all other news providers, haven't speculated the possible cause of this horrendous incident, it's just the BBC is it ?[/i]

No, of course not, they all do it. I just happened to have read the Beeb site. It still boils my piss though that speculation counts as news. Report the facts, not what Trevor from Basingstoke, who's mate Fred went on holiday to somewhere near the area once in the mid Eighties, heard from a fella down the pub.

was being flippant, regarding all the amateur sleuthing that some were engaging in-- please let me know how long is respectful before dark humour is allowed

[i]was being flippant, regarding all the amateur sleuthing that some were engaging in-- please let me know how long is respectful before dark humour is allowed [/i]

Well, that's obviously difficult to say, but I guess that as it's only just 24 hours since the girl was found hiding under her mother's dead body, where she'd been for eight hours, after witnessing, one assumes, the brutal murder of her parents and grandmother and attempted murder of her sister, maybe the flippancy was a bit premature.

was not directed at HER-- as has been eloquently put earlier, don't think the discourse on here will affect any of the poor souls involved-- the amateur sleuths are another matter......

List of assassinated Iraqi academics. Makes for quite a read.

The head of my undergraduate lab project was an Iraqi specialist in radiation.... 😯

and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_academics_in_post-invasion_Iraq

The violence, and also the conflict in general, is believed to be initiated by the US, Iran and Israel, in order to eliminate Iraq as a strategic player in the region. Academics state that the US and Iran are still actively involved in promoting the violence (whereas Israel appears to be not) and state that they play the most dominant role in the violence up until now. Academics pinpoint that the perpetrators, or the actors that conduct the actual violence, are mainly the militias, being supported by the Iraqi government.

That is the crude way of disrupting a fledgling state, must be the most dangerous job in the world......

My adventure race partner was gassed in his van in Burgos, Spain. The thieves took the wallets but not much else. Fortunately they woke up with nothing worse than a hang over and lost very little cash as it was the end of their holiday.

Copied from another site re the gassing in motorhome stories:-

Dear Mr Kirby,

Thank you for your enquiry. I would like to inform you that you are not the first enquirer with this question. Professor Hatch, our Clinical Advisor, has given the following previous comments:

"I can give you a categorical assurance that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious with ether without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect of the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a rag, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day.

There are much more powerful agents around now, some of which are almost odourless. However, these would be unlikely to be able to achieve the effect you describe, and the cost would be huge enough to deter any thief unless he was after the crown jewels. The only practicable agent is probably the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege - I advised the BBC on their programme about this. The general feeling is that they used an agent which is not available outside the KGB!

Finally, unsupervised anaesthesia, which is what we are really talking about is very dangerous. In the Moscow siege about 20% of victims died from asphyxia, because their airways were unprotected. If the reports you talk about are true I would have expected a significant number of deaths or cases of serious brain damage to have been reported."

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Regards,

Ms Shirani Nadarajah
General Administrator

Professional Standards Directorate
The Royal College of Anaesthetists"