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For voting those cretins Griffin and Brons into the European Parliament.
Hang your heads in shame.
Sorry. They just put such a convincing argument forwards.
Wasn't me! Labour "won" in the NE, surprises me that anybody could think that they would be the best to lead us. I know there is a pathalogical hatred of all things tory up here since Fatcha but still there are other parties. As for voting BNP, some people are stupid, some people are racists.
it is a reaction to the southern stereotyping of people who live in the post industrial wasteland know as "the north"
or having David (oops I accidently claimed £13k for a non-existent mortgage, flipped my house 6 times in 5 years and paid off the kids bills) Chaytor as your parlimentarian
I voted and didn't vote for the ****s known as the "BNP"
there should be a referendum on having "none of the above" on every ballot paper
Shame on you Northeners
thats what i thought. I live in Bolton too!
Watch out the liberals are about.
Don't tar all with the same brush. It is shame on the pathetic, stupid, ignorant and racist [i]minority[/i] of those in one part of the North of England, that's all.
Either way, it's not a result I'm at all happy with. I have no desire to see Griffin and his ilk have any sort of representative power or presence for this country.
racist minority
Not in this case...
Not in this case...
Look at how the voting system works - BNP actually came fifth but got in due to some weird PR system.
It is quite shameful, but I think a lot of it just reflects the dire financial situation in a lot of these post-industrial northern towns that have never really recovered from the death of heavy industry.
Lib, Lab and Con got one seat each in the North East. With just three seats, the minor parties were very unlikely to get in here, though UKIP pushed the Lib Dems very close for third!
52,700 racists in the North east; 8.9% of the vote.
one part of the North of England
I'd class the NW and Y&H as more than on part of the north of England...
Plus the nazis got almost 10% in Yorkshire, 1 in 10 voted NAZI.
YOU STUPID STUPID ****S WHAT THE **** IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? ARE THE CURRENT LOT NOT BAD ENOUGH? YOU WANT IT WORSE BECAUSE?
Retards, God's country my arse.
i feel sick knowing that he has a voice.
hopefully he'll get kicked out soon enough (considering he's going to have to spend time in brussels, where holocaust denial is illegal)...
I don't normally post in these political rambling threads, but surely the OP is just trying to stir hatred on between the north and the south on this little corner of the internet.
some weird PR system
It's a flaw/feature of the PR system that minority parties are more likely to get in. It does stop parties fighting over the centre ground, and means that the bigger minority parties get a chance to actually win something.
In the SE the BNP got over 100,000 votes (30,000 less than in the NW) and 4% of the vote.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_35.stm
How ironic that people who are apparently angry about the BNP are making crass generalisations about a large group of people.
Unsurprising result and I suspect just a foretaste of things to come in a general election. The major parties have all abandoned the ordinary working class people of this country to pusue global capital and indeed have largely abandoned policies of any nature (how many on here for example could describe the differences between tory and labour education policy?).
From what I can see, large numbers of white working class people are now willing to overlook certain aspects of BNP policy in order to vote for a party whose other policies probably resemble " old labour " more than any other current party.
I don't normally post in these political rambling threads, but surely the OP is just trying to stir hatred on between the north and the south on this little corner of the internet.
i would imagine that the OP is not actually claiming that all northerners are racists, merely pointing out how disappointing the results in North West and Yorkshire were. The main parties have to accept some responsibility for leaving so many people disillusioned with what they have to offer.
Unsurprising result and I suspect just a foretaste of things to come in a general election. The major parties have all abandoned the ordinary working class people of this country to pusue global capital and indeed have largely abandoned policies of any nature (how many on here for example could describe the differences between tory and labour education policy?).
And, ironically, bringing in the system that allowed the BNP to win EU seats for general elections as well would force Labour and the Conservatives to revert back toward their traditional positions, rather than fighting over a handful of swing voters in key seats.
I'm furious and gutted 🙁
It's not the people who voted BNP who should be ashamed. I respect their views. I think they're wrong, but they are entitled to their opinions
The people I'm angry with are those who couldn't be bothered to vote at all
The people I'm angry with are those who couldn't be bothered to vote at all
Why? What if none of the parties had done enough to convince them/inform them of their policies? Should they just have voted for someone anyway to stop the BNP? Not sure I agree with that - doesn't seem very democratic to me.
As a friend pointed out, the BNP propaganda was concise and to the point and didn't mention sending anyone 'home'. To those people who have become disallusioned with existing parties and who aren't endowed with the sharp political accumen that you lot are, this must have seemed quite refreshing and appealing.
As a friend pointed out, the BNP propaganda was concise and to the point and didn't mention sending anyone 'home'. To those people who have become disallusioned with existing parties and who aren't endowed with the sharp political accumen that you lot are, this must have seemed quite refreshing and appealing.
Yes, the BNP leaflet we got was all about getting more bobbies on the beat and other perfectly reasonable thing, with one little reference to immigration.
Sadly there has been racial tensions in East Lancashire (Burnley /Nelson /Colne) for some time with highly segregated communities. Sadly a percentage of the white population have decided that all their problems (such as the decline of the industrial staple industries cotton and engineering for example)poor housing etc are the fault of immigrants. These immigrants achieve better in school exam results and have lower levels of unemployment but let us not let facts affect our view now eh.
The situation is probably more similar to say the situation in N.Ireland with segregation etc
YES A SHAMEFUL NIGHT FOR BRITISH POLITICS
We do live in democracy and I am a firm believer that by giving these people a platform it will harm them in the long run.
[i]The people I'm angry with are those who couldn't be bothered to vote at all [/i]
I think if the people who couldn't be bothered to vote, could be bothered, and voted BNP, I'd be slightly more angry than if they hadn't voted at all.
Not that i'm angry on either point, more indifferent and depressed 🙂
Griffin on the Today programme spent half of his allocated rant/whinge time complaining about how the BBC's Friar Tuck is black. Ha ha ha, can't wait to see him trying to take part in serious debate. Please let's just laugh them all the way into the sea. Morons.
Should they just have voted for someone anyway to stop the BNP? Not sure I agree with that - doesn't seem very democratic to me.
On the contrary, the BNP getting in despite the fact people would have voted to keep them out (and not for any other party) is undemocratic. As I mentioned on the other thread, they've only got in because the electoral system splits the vote of those who would prefer anybody but the BNP.
The problem is that the people who voted BNP are either racist or they have knowingly decided to ignore the unpleasant underbelly of the party for selfish reasons. I don't accept that anyone doesn't know what the BNP stands for.
On the contrary, the BNP getting in despite the fact people would have voted to keep them out (and not for any other party) is undemocratic. As I mentioned on the other thread, they've only got in because the electoral system splits the vote of those who would prefer anybody but the BNP.
But are you suggesting we should have a system where you can vote for who you don't want without voting for anyone else. Or a multiple choice voting system where you ranked them in order of preference? 😛
I don't think anybody's ever tried the first - interesting concept. The second is STV, which is what I'm kind of advocating (though suspect people wouldn't be able to get their heads round it).
Im not Racist, just hate the thieving lieing lot thats in at the moment,let us now have an election,to decide what we should do to get rid of the lot of them,if you dont ike the BNP, dont vote for them,its a free country so far,where we are all allowed our own opinion, except perhaps on here.
Goodbye.
You're "allowed" to have the opinion that voting BNP is sensible project. We'll just think you're a howlingly dense and unpleasant toolbar if you do. 🙄
I never said i voted for the BNP, as you have no right to speak on behalf of everyone that doesnt agree with their views.
Your views are just that,YOUR VIEW,what you see and possibly believe in.
It's also a shame that this will discredit PR as an alternative to first past the post for General Elections.
But we live in a democracy, a sizeable minority of people obviously hold racist views (let's not pretend they've all been hoodwinked somehow) - so their views should be represented.
Maybe sitting in the European Parliament will broaden Griffin's mind about foreigners anyway.
In what way are you not allowed an opinion? Is your post going to be deleted? Or can you just not handle the fact that most people don't agree with you so are going to sulk and make unfounded accusations instead?
I voted Green. What I cant understand is this system of handing out seats the greens got 9% of the vote nationally and got 2 seats the nazis got 6% of the vote and got 2 seats the LibDems got 14% of the vote and got 10 seats and Lab got 16% and got 11 seats I thought this PR was supposed to hand out seats properly sounds like it didnt work to me
It was a joke, as in humour,that i said we where not allowed an opinion on this forum,ha ha.
Grumm, i dont sulk sorryand dont make unfounded accusations, why should i,it was democracy that allowed BNP, to win,Democracy can change what happened in the next few years,for better or for worse,that decision is in the voters hands or the pencil in the booth.
That's because it's PR-lite.
[i]It was a joke, as in humour,that i said we where not allowed an opinion on this forum,ha ha.[/i]
My sides...
Despite the face that the BNP's leaflet is quite conservative, it does not disguise the fact that they only allow whites to join the party - that they can get away with this in 2009 is, frankly, disgusting.
I'm surprised that this hasn't been an open and shut case, really. I'm tempted to apply to join them and put "Black" for my ethnic origin. Once I'm rejected, I can sue them for racial discrimination and get a bit of extra cash.
Well done to David Dimbleby and Andrew Marr for treating their new councillor with utter contempt on the night. 🙂
project, is English your native language? Because your grammar is fairly poor. Maybe you should watch out, with the BNP on the rise.
Or is that just the standard educational level amongst BNP supporters. 😛
The funny thing is watching the Tories, the right-wing press et al, who have spent the last 20-30 years pushing a slightly less right wing agenda, a slightly less obvious racism, now having to protest about the BNP getting support.
Well done chaps, you've got your message across... 🙄
It's interesting that the Daily Mail have a lot of anti-BNP articles, given that I imagine a lot of Daily Mail readers probably voted BNP.
the Tories, the right-wing press et al, who have spent the last 20-30 years pushing a slightly less right wing agenda, a slightly less obvious racism
Have they? I'm obviously too thick to have noticed they really want to kick out blacks and asians, but are just afraid of saying it.
Only a rabid lefty could possibly make a comment like that.
grunn, bit racist that,as for the level of education of BNP mebers, Nick Grifin has a Degree in Chemistry.
I have a degree in Common Sence.
It's interesting that the Daily Mail have a lot of anti-BNP articles, given that I imagine a lot of Daily Mail readers probably voted BNP.
An odd thing to imagine.
The funny thing is watching the Tories, the right-wing press et al, who have spent the last 20-30 years pushing a slightly less right wing agenda, a slightly less obvious racism, now having to protest about the BNP getting support.
And there was I thinking it was Brown who said "British jobs for British workers" and Blunkett who went on about immigrants "swamping" Britain.
It's the collapse of the Labour vote in traditionally Labour areas (that have been betrayed by Labour some would say) that has led to this situation.
as for the level of education of BNP mebers, Nick Grifin has a Degree in Chemistry.
If you're referring to my comments, then I was commenting on the level of intelligence of BNP voters. I'm quite happy to accept that their leaders might be highly intelligent - you're unlikely to get to where they are if you're thick. Being highly intelligent doesn't stop you from having abhorrent views, but I suspect only a minority of the people who vote for them actually have such views (or hold them that strongly).
There is a PR system whereby you can rank your choices from 1 to whatever number of candidates is on the ballot paper. I grew up using it. If there's a particularly distasteful candidate that the "majority" hate, they can make sure he is ranked at the bottom of their votes. A quota is set according to the number of votes cast in the .constituency, and the leftover votes get split according to the...actually, forget I tried to explain it...it's bloody complicated but it works IME.
It was interesting to note that the BNP vote in Burnley has declined since the last time according to "commando" Vine
I live in the North West and I voted BNP.
[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1281213.stm [/url]
The Tory party seems to understand....
[url] http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/02/daily_mail_soli [/url]
The Daily Mail seems to understand...
There is a PR system whereby you can rank your choices from 1 to whatever number of candidates is on the ballot paper.
Yeah, STV.
aracer - MemberThe second is STV, which is what I'm kind of advocating
or on the other thread
aracer - MemberI think STV would have stopped the BNP getting in without disadvantaging the other minor parties
[url] http://www.orla.fm/polecamy/5-polecamy/3120-daily-mail-is-racist-accuses-federations-moszczynski [/url]
The Poles seem to think so too....
As a 'naturalised' Yorkshireman (originally from 'down south') I am saddened by the BNP's 'success' in my region. Can I point out though, that 9 out of 10 of us who voted did NOT vote for these scumbags. In fact, despite grumm's wise words, the main reason I voted was to keep the bastards out. Also, at the end of the day, what difference will it make? Having 2 MEPs hardly puts them in a position of power within the EU parliament, and I can't imagine that there will be a long line of parties looking to form an alliance with them and even if there a few other nutters in the european parliament, mainstream parties still massively out-number them. I still think PR is a good idea. It always seems a bit illogical to me that confirmed racists want to get themselves elected so they can spend more time sat in a room full of 'bloody foreigners'. 😉
[i]collapse of the Labour vote[/i]
Agree. In a strange way, a no-vote is also an expression of choice.
The BNP have simply diluted their traditional hardcore policies to create a broader appeal to the voting public.
They've changed the covers on the book but not the pages in between.
The daily mash seems to understand
[i]"First they'll come for the people who watch Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, but I won't speak up because I watch Top Gear and play golf."[/i] 😀
An odd thing to imagine.
Not really given the vile, mean-spirited, bigoted nonsense that The Daily Mail spouts on a regular basis.
But experts insisted the BNP vote would disappear as soon as everyone could afford to go on holiday to Majorca again.Professor Tom Logan, of Reading University, said: "Prolonged recessions do have a tendency to expose our inner racist ****nut, but it subsides once you get a new credit card."
Haha - sadly that's fairly hit the nail on the head I think.
Not really given the vile, mean-spirited, bigoted nonsense that The Daily Mail spouts on a regular basis.
It wasn't the Dail Mail type areas that voted BNP. Daily Mail readers are far too busy voting UKIP anyway.
I like the way everyone is ignoring the racist, maybe he'll disappear if we pretend he's not there.
I didn't really. I'm just bored.
It wasn't the Dail Mail type areas that voted BNP
Exactly - 4.4% in the SE, 9.8% in Yorkshire and Humberside. Where do you think the DM sells more?
Yeah 'only' 100,000 people in the SE voted BNP, thus proving that The Daily Mail isn't xenophobic, or something.
Also, at the end of the day, what difference will it make? Having 2 MEPs hardly puts them in a position of power within the EU parliament, and I can't imagine that there will be a long line of parties looking to form an alliance with them and even if there a few other nutters in the european parliament, mainstream parties still massively out-number them.
Its not the representation at this stage that's the threat. Initially it's the modicum of "respectability" that a democratic system offers any elected party/politician. Secondly, it's access to central political funding, giving the party the resources to thirdly, expand the coverage and widen it's message in the media/wider public - essentially, the money to keep polishing their turds.
Though we could look at this as an advantage - hopefully they can shoot themselves in the foot as they get a wider audience to '"preach" to and the wider audience realise what they are. And that audience start preaching to the people that voted for them.
well thas 1 in 10 of people that bothered to vote - no real surprise that 1 in 10 people have racist tendencies even if they wouldn't label themselves as racist - stand at any bus stop or listen to other parents outside the school gates - check out the sort of stuff that gets posted as comments on BBC news stories about jobs losses/race attacks/urban regeneration - plenty of people with hatred for others
Yeah 'only' 100,000 people in the SE voted BNP, thus proving that The Daily Mail isn't xenophobic, or something.
Maybe Daily Mail readers are xenophobic, but that manifests itself as voting for UKIP. It's xenophobic Sun readers in Labour areas that vote BNP.
And their vote went down BTW:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/
Not disputing that at all - I was just saying that I think it's odd that The Daily Mail is so anti a party who's official stance is only slightly to the right of their editorials etc.
[i]Aracer: Where do you think the DM sells more?[/i]
Actually, they sell around a million more copies in the 'so called' south.
I didn't really. I'm just bored.
phew 🙂
[i]well thas 1 in 10 of people that bothered to vote - no real surprise that 1 in 10 people have racist tendencies even if they wouldn't label themselves as racist - stand at any bus stop or listen to other parents outside the school gates - check out the sort of stuff that gets posted as comments on BBC news stories about jobs losses/race attacks/urban regeneration - plenty of people with hatred for others[/i]
if the Church of England is the Tory party at prayer, I suspect the far right of the Tory party is the BNP in a cardigan....
Still seems strange to me how all the rabid leftys keep suggesting the BNP is like the Tory party, when they're actually picking up Labour voters.
I think it's odd that The Daily Mail is so anti a party who's official stance is only slightly to the right of their editorials etc.
Of course the Labour party is also only very slightly to the left of the Torys, yet they're pretty anti them as well 🙄
Twice with the 'rabid lefty' thing, I can't quite see how suggesting that some of the Tories and that end of the Press have a tendency towards racism is in anyway contentious. After all, the fella wouldn't even have a moat if he didn't want to keep people out, would he?
Twice with the 'rabid lefty' thing
Twice with the 'BNP are like the Tories' thing.
No more contentious I suppose than suggesting that some of Labour have a tendency towards racism.
Of course the Labour party is also only very slightly to the left of the Torys, yet they're pretty anti them as well
What exactly is your point? The BNP is strongly anti-immigration and anti-Europe, so is the Daily Mail (a traditionally Tory paper) - which bit are you failing to grasp?
The BNP are picking up Labour votes through a deliberate strategy specifically targeting 'Old Labour' areas with seemingly 'Old Labour' policies, combined with a nice line in xenophobia and blaming immigrants for all the problems in these areas, which are particularly acute in the current financial situation.
Both sides have fragmented positions which mean that anti-immigration rhetoric is attractive.
For conservatives (snmall and big "c") with an idea of "English -(or British)ness" endless immigration and a tendency to fawn over chicken tikka masala as an imporvement over anything the yokels cook is bad, while for labour/union folk immigration increasing the size of the labour force reduces the buying power of labour and benefits capital.
Meanwhile the cuddly and diverse left and the free-trading capitalist right share an enthusiasm for immigration.
What exactly is your point?
That according to you, being racist or not racist is only a "slight" variation.