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It's interesting that the Daily Mail have a lot of anti-BNP articles, given that I imagine a lot of Daily Mail readers probably voted BNP.
An odd thing to imagine.
The funny thing is watching the Tories, the right-wing press et al, who have spent the last 20-30 years pushing a slightly less right wing agenda, a slightly less obvious racism, now having to protest about the BNP getting support.
And there was I thinking it was Brown who said "British jobs for British workers" and Blunkett who went on about immigrants "swamping" Britain.
It's the collapse of the Labour vote in traditionally Labour areas (that have been betrayed by Labour some would say) that has led to this situation.
as for the level of education of BNP mebers, Nick Grifin has a Degree in Chemistry.
If you're referring to my comments, then I was commenting on the level of intelligence of BNP voters. I'm quite happy to accept that their leaders might be highly intelligent - you're unlikely to get to where they are if you're thick. Being highly intelligent doesn't stop you from having abhorrent views, but I suspect only a minority of the people who vote for them actually have such views (or hold them that strongly).
There is a PR system whereby you can rank your choices from 1 to whatever number of candidates is on the ballot paper. I grew up using it. If there's a particularly distasteful candidate that the "majority" hate, they can make sure he is ranked at the bottom of their votes. A quota is set according to the number of votes cast in the .constituency, and the leftover votes get split according to the...actually, forget I tried to explain it...it's bloody complicated but it works IME.
It was interesting to note that the BNP vote in Burnley has declined since the last time according to "commando" Vine
I live in the North West and I voted BNP.
[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1281213.stm [/url]
The Tory party seems to understand....
[url] http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/02/daily_mail_soli [/url]
The Daily Mail seems to understand...
There is a PR system whereby you can rank your choices from 1 to whatever number of candidates is on the ballot paper.
Yeah, STV.
aracer - MemberThe second is STV, which is what I'm kind of advocating
or on the other thread
aracer - MemberI think STV would have stopped the BNP getting in without disadvantaging the other minor parties
[url] http://www.orla.fm/polecamy/5-polecamy/3120-daily-mail-is-racist-accuses-federations-moszczynski [/url]
The Poles seem to think so too....
As a 'naturalised' Yorkshireman (originally from 'down south') I am saddened by the BNP's 'success' in my region. Can I point out though, that 9 out of 10 of us who voted did NOT vote for these scumbags. In fact, despite grumm's wise words, the main reason I voted was to keep the bastards out. Also, at the end of the day, what difference will it make? Having 2 MEPs hardly puts them in a position of power within the EU parliament, and I can't imagine that there will be a long line of parties looking to form an alliance with them and even if there a few other nutters in the european parliament, mainstream parties still massively out-number them. I still think PR is a good idea. It always seems a bit illogical to me that confirmed racists want to get themselves elected so they can spend more time sat in a room full of 'bloody foreigners'. 😉
[i]collapse of the Labour vote[/i]
Agree. In a strange way, a no-vote is also an expression of choice.
The BNP have simply diluted their traditional hardcore policies to create a broader appeal to the voting public.
They've changed the covers on the book but not the pages in between.
The daily mash seems to understand
[i]"First they'll come for the people who watch Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, but I won't speak up because I watch Top Gear and play golf."[/i] 😀
An odd thing to imagine.
Not really given the vile, mean-spirited, bigoted nonsense that The Daily Mail spouts on a regular basis.
But experts insisted the BNP vote would disappear as soon as everyone could afford to go on holiday to Majorca again.Professor Tom Logan, of Reading University, said: "Prolonged recessions do have a tendency to expose our inner racist ****nut, but it subsides once you get a new credit card."
Haha - sadly that's fairly hit the nail on the head I think.
Not really given the vile, mean-spirited, bigoted nonsense that The Daily Mail spouts on a regular basis.
It wasn't the Dail Mail type areas that voted BNP. Daily Mail readers are far too busy voting UKIP anyway.
I like the way everyone is ignoring the racist, maybe he'll disappear if we pretend he's not there.
I didn't really. I'm just bored.
It wasn't the Dail Mail type areas that voted BNP
Exactly - 4.4% in the SE, 9.8% in Yorkshire and Humberside. Where do you think the DM sells more?
Yeah 'only' 100,000 people in the SE voted BNP, thus proving that The Daily Mail isn't xenophobic, or something.
Also, at the end of the day, what difference will it make? Having 2 MEPs hardly puts them in a position of power within the EU parliament, and I can't imagine that there will be a long line of parties looking to form an alliance with them and even if there a few other nutters in the european parliament, mainstream parties still massively out-number them.
Its not the representation at this stage that's the threat. Initially it's the modicum of "respectability" that a democratic system offers any elected party/politician. Secondly, it's access to central political funding, giving the party the resources to thirdly, expand the coverage and widen it's message in the media/wider public - essentially, the money to keep polishing their turds.
Though we could look at this as an advantage - hopefully they can shoot themselves in the foot as they get a wider audience to '"preach" to and the wider audience realise what they are. And that audience start preaching to the people that voted for them.
well thas 1 in 10 of people that bothered to vote - no real surprise that 1 in 10 people have racist tendencies even if they wouldn't label themselves as racist - stand at any bus stop or listen to other parents outside the school gates - check out the sort of stuff that gets posted as comments on BBC news stories about jobs losses/race attacks/urban regeneration - plenty of people with hatred for others
Yeah 'only' 100,000 people in the SE voted BNP, thus proving that The Daily Mail isn't xenophobic, or something.
Maybe Daily Mail readers are xenophobic, but that manifests itself as voting for UKIP. It's xenophobic Sun readers in Labour areas that vote BNP.
And their vote went down BTW:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/
Not disputing that at all - I was just saying that I think it's odd that The Daily Mail is so anti a party who's official stance is only slightly to the right of their editorials etc.
[i]Aracer: Where do you think the DM sells more?[/i]
Actually, they sell around a million more copies in the 'so called' south.
I didn't really. I'm just bored.
phew 🙂
[i]well thas 1 in 10 of people that bothered to vote - no real surprise that 1 in 10 people have racist tendencies even if they wouldn't label themselves as racist - stand at any bus stop or listen to other parents outside the school gates - check out the sort of stuff that gets posted as comments on BBC news stories about jobs losses/race attacks/urban regeneration - plenty of people with hatred for others[/i]
if the Church of England is the Tory party at prayer, I suspect the far right of the Tory party is the BNP in a cardigan....
Still seems strange to me how all the rabid leftys keep suggesting the BNP is like the Tory party, when they're actually picking up Labour voters.
I think it's odd that The Daily Mail is so anti a party who's official stance is only slightly to the right of their editorials etc.
Of course the Labour party is also only very slightly to the left of the Torys, yet they're pretty anti them as well 🙄
Twice with the 'rabid lefty' thing, I can't quite see how suggesting that some of the Tories and that end of the Press have a tendency towards racism is in anyway contentious. After all, the fella wouldn't even have a moat if he didn't want to keep people out, would he?
Twice with the 'rabid lefty' thing
Twice with the 'BNP are like the Tories' thing.
No more contentious I suppose than suggesting that some of Labour have a tendency towards racism.
Of course the Labour party is also only very slightly to the left of the Torys, yet they're pretty anti them as well
What exactly is your point? The BNP is strongly anti-immigration and anti-Europe, so is the Daily Mail (a traditionally Tory paper) - which bit are you failing to grasp?
The BNP are picking up Labour votes through a deliberate strategy specifically targeting 'Old Labour' areas with seemingly 'Old Labour' policies, combined with a nice line in xenophobia and blaming immigrants for all the problems in these areas, which are particularly acute in the current financial situation.
Both sides have fragmented positions which mean that anti-immigration rhetoric is attractive.
For conservatives (snmall and big "c") with an idea of "English -(or British)ness" endless immigration and a tendency to fawn over chicken tikka masala as an imporvement over anything the yokels cook is bad, while for labour/union folk immigration increasing the size of the labour force reduces the buying power of labour and benefits capital.
Meanwhile the cuddly and diverse left and the free-trading capitalist right share an enthusiasm for immigration.
What exactly is your point?
That according to you, being racist or not racist is only a "slight" variation.
the cuddly and diverse left and the free-trading capitalist right
The union of these sets is known as New Labour.
That according to you, being racist or not racist is only a "slight" variation.
Not really, The Daily Mail is racist, as is the BNP, just to slightly different degrees.
Is everything completely black and white in your world?
aracer, re. the STV thing which you're proposing on the "other thread"...
I was posting via a crappy mobile. Reading through every thread before I'd posted would have taken me ages.
I fear you are being somewhat obtuse; try 'tory racist' as a search term in Google for any number of examples of the kind of racist silliness that the Tory party has housed over the years.
Just because smiley Dave is leading the charge, it doesn't mean that the only racists are now all safely corralled in the BNP.
And to allow the invocation of Godwins law, the Daily Mail are quite famous for having 'previous' in this regard....
[i]Rothermere was a friend and supporter of both Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler, which influenced the Mail's political stance towards them up to 1939.[18][19] Rothermere visited and corresponded with Hitler. On 1 October 1938, Rothermere sent Hitler a telegram in support of Germany's invasion of the Sudetenland, and expressing the hope that 'Adolf the Great' would become a popular figure in Britain.[/i]
"... y'know, that fella with a moustache, always plays a baddy in war films....."
"Adolf Hitler?"
"yeh"
"I didn't really. I'm just bored.
phew "
We live close to an estate (Offerton Parish) in Stockport which is a hotbed of National Front and/or BNP activity and they came over our way door knocking to drum up support. The wife answered the door and invited him in with her broadest Afrikaans accent. He declinded her kind offer rather sheepishly. Gutless little worm that he was.
Just reading some stuff from various papers on RSS Feeds and I saw these comments on the Daily Mail site. Amazing that this kind of thing gets past moderation.
What I don't understand it how it's possible for the site to be illegal for as much as ten years at the huge cost to the txpayer. Doesn't illegal translate as something done against the law?
Just one more reason why that politician in E.Europe a week or so ago, suggested that perhaps there should be a final solution to the traveller problem. It would certainly put an end to illegal sites.
I have a house in Leeds, but moved down to the sh*tty south last year for work. My tenant phoned me and told me that the BNP had put a sign up on the telegraph pole outside, and she was quite alarmed about it. Tw*ts.
But in all honesty, are fellow STWers really concerned about the perceived power gained by the BNP through the elections? I'm not. From what I can see, all those that represent them appear not to have the required savvy to make a cup of tea, let alone govern a country.
Give it time. They'll cut their own collective throat soon enough. And we can restart the thread again later... 😀
Not particularly troubled by their power, but by the fact that they can form a support base and get a vote out pretty effectively. And that none of the mainstream parties whose idea of a good society I share appears to have a functioning strategy for eroding that support.
It is very important not to disparage the people who are voting BNP in general terms. They are a huge chunk of voters who have a stake in what goes on in this country and a vote in elections. If they feel that no-one is governing in theri interests then that needs to be addressed. And that means more than labour or conservatives doing dog-wghistle anti-immigrant politics occasionally.
Some fresh data to go with the argument of the origins of the BNP voters:
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/who+voted+bnp+and+why/3200557
First, who voted BNP? They were mainly men: their voted divided 61 per cent male, 39 per cent female. (Men comprise just 48 per cent in the electorate as a whole.)They were also more working-class. In the country at large, professional workers outnumber manual workers by 20 per cent to 18 per cent. Among BNP voters the pattern is very different: 36 per cent manual workers, 11 per cent professionals.
One third of them read the Sun or Daily Star as against one in five adults generally; just 6 per cent of BNP voters read the upmarket papers (Times, Telegraph, Guardian etc), which is less than half the national average.
...
But perhaps the most startling finding came when we tested anecdotal reports that many BNP voters were old Labour sympathisers who felt that the party no longer speaks up for them. It turns out to be true. As many as 59 per cent of BNP voters think that Labour "used to care about the concerns of people like me but doesn’t nowadays".