[Closed] Secrecy life of cats BBC2 now

Damn you spellcheck

That should be Secret not Secrecy.

Pussy on the TV would be a better title, to get attention,

Oh, nice one. Recording.

I see they've never heard of GPS drift...

We're watching it.
We've got one of those ginger cats with a stumpy tail, too.

One eyeball - our dear departed Huffy has a stunt double.

Strava for cats?

Strava for cats?

That's what I thought!

Edit, the cheeky thieving buggers!

Bit boring TBH. Would prefer to see it set in a town with some real rough brawling Tom's...

I thought there would be more of this:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

See many birds nowadays? (Thought not).

A cat lover myself, but I think we need to stand up and agree we have a problem here with what they're doing to our indigenous wildlife.

Side question: my understand is cats are territorial, each defending their own patch. So how do urban feral cats, that I have seen living in large groups, deal with this? Or do they have a menu of behaviour patterns from which to choose what works?

Most amazing creatures.

Oh FFS, if its not bad enough cats and cat owners have ruined the internet, now they are moving in on broadcast media as well.

I thought it would have confirmed that they are all plotting to kill their owners in their sleep, and take over the world.

I'm quite disappointed that it only involved petty thieving, fighting and killing stuff

mattjg,

watch the program on iPlayer - your questions will be answered. Oh and you'll see the scientists estimate that cats catch half a prey item per week on average - ie. half a mouse, bunny, or bird.

I watched half last night, will finish tonight.

Was surprised how many cats there were in such a small village.

I suspect they'd bring back more prey if it was available, but it's gone, especially birds. The top of the food chain predator is being fed from another source so there are many many more of them than the environment would naturally sustain. The birds can't feed and reproduce if they can't use the ground with a modicum of safety, fledglings hardly even have a chance to leave the nest safely. They don't have a chance really.

I have a cat and love him, I'm part of the problem too. I don't have an easy solution except we all skip having cats for a generation, and that's not going to happen. Still, I'm a bit troubled by this problem.

I thought it would have confirmed that they are all plotting to kill their owners in their sleep, and take over the world.

[img] [/img]

See many birds nowadays? (Thought not).

Yes, literally dozens in the last 30 minutes. There's a Blackbird snacking on Ants on the patio.

The ants, they've got no chance. Nearly wiped out!

It's a good environment for wildlife my garden.

Looks very much like this
[img] [/img]

The ants, they've got no chance. Nearly wiped out!

I wish, the little ****

We get Foxes too which is pretty cool. Or neighbours hate our garden though. There more into the 'manicured' look.

In your garden it looks like humans are most under threat.

Our neighbour has 2 cats and several bird feeders. He looks after his cats!

So depletion of indiginous bird species is down to cats, not removal of habitat, ie woodland, hedgerows, marshlands etc by humans? 🙄

I don't have an easy solution except we all skip having cats for a generation, and that's not going to happen

Well, it's either that, or cat owners control their cats like dog owners control their dogs. And before everyone cries out in anguish that cats and dogs are different and it can't be done; no they are not, and yes it can - several councils in Australia ban cats being let out. It seems to work well enough, and if cats are caught out, they get taken to a pound, at the owner's expense, along with a nice fine.

Presumably cats whose owners cannot be found either get rehomed, or rehomed more permanently...

I'm guessing you've already seen [url= http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/347928/description/Cats_kill_more_than_one_billion_birds_each_year ]this[/url]

We've 2 cats and next door has 5. Have you any idea how intimidating it is to walk out of the back door to have 7 cats sat around staring at you. Its like a Hitchcock film. Terrifying!

So depletion of indiginous bird species is down to cats, not removal of habitat, ie woodland, hedgerows, marshlands etc by humans

Very much a double whammy.

cat owners control their cats like dog owners control their dogs

So they bag up the cat poo and hang the bags up in trees and bushes throughout the local parks and woodland............ i really can't see how that will help 😛

So they bag up the cat poo and hang the bags up in trees and bushes throughout the local parks and woodland............ i really can't see how that will help

No cat poo as cat isn't outside in public areas, though I have seen a couple on leashes nearby 😯

Well, it's either that, or cat owners control their cats like dog owners control their dogs.

My cats can give you bit of a nibble, but to be honest they're never going to be able to rip a toddlers face off, no matter how much I train them

See many birds nowadays? (Thought not).

A cat lover myself, but I think we need to stand up and agree we have a problem here with what they're doing to our indigenous wildlife.

I think after 2000 years we should probably consider cats indigenous, too... but ignoring that, unless cat populations have changed radically in the past 100 years any measured decline in wildlife is due to other causes.

See many birds nowadays? (Thought not).

Have a look at where you live on google earth and zoom out. I think you'll see that only a tiny percentage of the land around you is built on and inhabited by cat-owning humans and swathes of land that is out of the range of cats, even on this little island that we like to tell ourselves is crowded. So if the question is have we seen any birds in [i]your[/i] garden? - perhaps not many. Are there many birds? Yes there are.

If theres a lack where you live thats probably got more to do with your neighbours block paved front gardens and decked back gardens, uPVC nest-proof soffits and having fences rather than hedges around their gardens. Nowhere to nest and nowhere to feed, so the birds have gone elsewhere. My house mostly.

@zokes has the policy had the desired effect, and what was it?

I think I'd do without rather than have a cat confined indoors or on a leash.

If you actually watched the programme last night, it concluded that as cats become more domesticated they're less and less inclined to murder small furry things.

Admittedly that news came a bit late to the vowl kindly deposited in the kitchen last night

No, the area of the house I grew up in and where my parents still live in is largely unchanged. It was low-ish density housing then, and all the land is already used. Anecdotally I remember there being many more small birds than I see nowadays.

But it's possible my experience is atypical or my memory is wrong.

My cats can give you bit of a nibble, but to be honest they're never going to be able to rip a toddlers face off, no matter how much I train them

Have you ever tried washing a cat? An angry cat could rip a T-rex's face off, never mind a toddler!

@zokes has the policy had the desired effect, and what was it?

No idea, but I can't see why removing an anthropogenically introduced predator would cause things to worsen. If you remove the thing doing the killing, and don't replace it with anything else, I can't see how that wouldn't improve wildlife numbers.

Admittedly that news came a bit late to the vowl kindly deposited in the kitchen last night

Just wait until they get to the consonants 😆

Zokes not wanting to provoke you into one of your "episodes" 😉 but I think I am right in saying Australia doesn't have any indigenous cats??? so the imported ones are causing havoc, that isnt the case in the UK and have you seen the programme that is being discussed.

The boffins at the end came up with the idea that cats are becoming less huntery (not a proper word) because its easier to steal food from neighbours or manipulate humans to feed them.

oh joy, while I was typing this my cat deposited a dead mouse on the landing, I nearly trod on it.

thanks fella. love you too.

Australia doesn't have any indigenous cats?

Neither does the UK.

Have you ever tried washing a cat? An angry cat could rip a T-rex's face off, never mind a toddler!

A very valid point zokes. To be honest I'd class trying to wash a cat as an absolute suicide mission!! Unless there was a jetwasher involved

Australia doesn't have any indigenous cats??? so the imported ones are causing havoc,

You are indeed correct - "episode" avoided

that isnt the case in the UK

And then you went downhill.... How long have 'native' domestic cats been in the UK? 😉

They'd be a lot less huntery (nice word - I'll try to make it get into general usage) if they weren't allowed out to hunt in the first place.

Forget the birds, nobody mentioned the poor ickle bunny wabbits

Frankie's latest gift for us:
[IMG] [/IMG]

Neither does the UK.

errrrr Scottish wild cat??? Australia is the only continent that does not have any cats at all?

mattjg - Member

Australia doesn't have any indigenous cats?

Neither does the UK.

Although wildcats look similar to domestic cats, these are no feral or farm cats run wild; they're Britain's only remaining large wild predator and have walked this land for millions of years before mankind arrived or domestic cats appeared.

"The Eurasian lynx, an original native of the British Isles, is a medium sized cat that has been forced out of much of Western Europe by habitat destruction and human persecution over the last 2000 years. The last of the British lynx disappeared around the year 500. "

there are BIG cats in Scotland

http://caledonianmercury.com/2010/05/02/big-cat-sighting-leaves-experienced-hillwalker-baffled/006782

And then you went downhill.... How long have 'native' domestic cats been in the UK?

9000 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat#Origins

edit: doh, how did I miss the domestic bit. Dumbass.

Have you ever tried washing a cat? An angry cat could rip a T-rex's face off, never mind a toddler!

A very valid point zokes. To be honest I'd class trying to wash a cat as an absolute suicide mission!! Unless there was a jetwasher involved

I'm reliably informed (by this very website) that as long as you are wearing a bike helmet and deploy an emergency union jack, you will be fine.

Zokes I would say that "domesticated cats " have been living with/ interacting with humans for 1000's of years. Ahh see above post for more reliable facts 😀 you could show humility and admit that in this instance you may be wrong 😉 😉 😉

There was a fact on the show last night that stated that there is a 4 week window for kittens to get used to humans, if they dont have interaction in this window they go "feral" not sure how true that is but interesting.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/apr/18/scottish-wildcat-endangered-species

"Wildcats disappeared in lowland England around 1800," says Hetherington. "Then they vanished from Wales and northern England around 1860. Finally, they went from southern Scotland. All we have left is a few hundred around the Cairngorms and places like the Black Isle. The trick now is to find a way to stop them from disappearing completely."

@bigyinn you're right, I forgot about the Scottish wild cat. I did read an article recently that suggested they're extinct in the wild as a pure breed though, pretty sad.

I didn't see any Scottish Wilds in Shamley Green though.

I'll try again http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/pets/cats.shtml

The Romans, what have they ever done for us.

According to wikipedia wildcats came to the British Isles 9000 years ago. So they're not indigenous, either.

Ironically cross breeding with ferals and domestics is the biggest threat to the Scottish Wild, I believe.

According to wikipedia wildcats came to the British Isles 9000 years ago. So they're not indigenous, either.

Whats the cut off point then? By that reckoning none of us are English Welsh or Scottish 😆

According to wikipedia wildcats came to the British Isles 9000 years ago. So they're not indigenous, either.

Small matter of an Ice Age means not much is.

I suspect they'd bring back more prey if it was available

Well in the programme, the cats didn't spend much time hunting anyway, so that seems unlikely. They just weren't that bothered.

I think Australia needs to focus more on its camel problem before moaning about cats.

you could show humility and admit that in this instance you may be wrong

Humility being shown 😳

Not that I care, I'm just about to go for a night out... Enjoy your days at work northern hemispherians 😆

wallop - Member
I think Australia needs to focus more on its camel problem before moaning about cats.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

Judging by the number of dead stinking ones where were were in the outback last weekend, someone is...

For the few who haven't seen it already, this is good:

[img] [/img]

Well in the programme, the cats didn't spend much time hunting anyway, so that seems unlikely. They just weren't that bothered.

If my cat's outdoors, he's hunting. If he's not actively chasing prey it's because there isn't any. He may get distracted, eg by a confrontation with another cat or by a female, but hunting is the default mode.

Whats the cut off point then? By that reckoning none of us are English Welsh or Scottish

🙂

Dunno what the cutoff point is, but I reckon after 2000 years the domestic cat should be considered indigenous.

Indigenous I think means part of the post-ice age repopulation of the British Isles. So I suppose technically us.

If my cat's outdoors, he's hunting.

Well if the show had one main point it was that cats aren't all alike.

Chuckling at the image of the mice and birds coming out for a scamper because the cat's on a break.

I suspect a lot of people, especially the "my fluffy Tiddles wouldn't hurt a fly" brigade haven't clocked on to what fearsome predators they are. Almost all of cats I'd bet.

To be fair, I'd wager most cat owners are aware of the predatory nature of their pets.

I might be wrong of course. I've just never met a cat owner that's come out with "he/she would never hurt a fly"

It doesn't take many maimed mice dropped on the kitchen floor for the human to play with to figure it out.

They'd soon be fully aware if they were 3 inches tall. 😆

Almost all of cats I'd bet.

Did you watch the show?

And the 'wouldn't hurt a fly' brigade are dog owners generally.

Did you watch the show?

He's watched half of it.
The half that didn't deal with hunting 😀

TBH, I was quite surprised at the small amount of hunting taking place - however I was amazed at the way cats are adopting to the increasing level of ownership & urbanisation.

Good programme.

I enjoyed the programme. My cat was out for most of it, and when she came back in spent most of her time looking behind the TV for all the *other cats*. Clearly not the brightest....

Gotta love STW.

I watched half last night, will probably watch the rest tonight. And I watched my cat for the last 6 years. I doubt he's atypical.

I had 2 cats that lived together from birth, but then when one died, the other would not accept a new one, so that one had to be rehomed,
so the six in one house was impressive.
would have liked to have seen more research/shown in the program, about that other that a few sentences,
was it down to owners?
was it down to food?
were they all kittens when growing up?
is it rare? common? etc
they seemed to be mixed gender too.

mattjg - Member

Gotta love STW.

I was really surprised by the findings myself! 🙂

Must admit the hunting behaviour of the cats I've had over the years has varied massively:

The most aggressive was a cat born feral, which we adopted as a kitten because it had been rejected - the runt of the litter basically.
Although small, it used to have a go at Magpies, rats bigger than he was, next door's Westie (who he bullied unmercifully for years) rabbits, all sorts basically.

The current mog just can't be arsed - she's brought us a couple of birds and one mouse in the past five years.

Our cat selected us for his new home when he was 1, would be fascinating to have known what happened in his first year. Also he's French, perhaps he hasn't clocked on that British cats call a ceasefire for tiffin.

French?

Are you SURE it's a cat?

[img] [/img]

" my understand is cats are territorial, each defending their own patch. So how do urban feral cats, that I have seen living in large groups, deal with this?"

I used to believe this myth too, that cats were solitary. We have 4 cats. We started with one that had been abandoned by the bloke up the road when he decided to 'backpack round Europe' leaving his pets behind with no food. We soon found our new cat liked having a best friend and they would spend hours sat in the garden together.

Later he found a new best friend (a tabby) and they were so insistent on being together they defeated us and the orig owner of the tabby so then we had 2 cats here.

Then a cat that used to live with the tabby made life so difficult for the humans because he missed the cat that had moved here, that we ended up with 3 cats. These 3 spend nearly all their time together or nearish each other, often grooming each other or cuddled up. Sitting 'in the vacinity of' each other also seems a big deal to cats. None of my sample 3 are related and all are castrated males.

The determination to be with other cats they are friends with is staggering. They would go without food and sit out in the pooring rain in order to peer through the door or windows to try to be with each other. It was both pitiful and impressive. I found it quite shocking in a way as I had not expected such affection and loyalty from cats towards each other, as its not the press they are given.

Our 4th cat was a starving stray and not 'chosen' by the other 3. He gets on OK with them but its clear they just do not view him in the same close or affectionate manner as they do each other.

Some friends had a similar problem with 2 other cats who moved hell and high water to live in the same house together, so I think cat bonding may be very common.

I read a behaviour book that cats in large feral groups tend to group only because a large food supply - they are there because of the food availability and for no other reason. I would now say that is possibly incorrect and that cats are inclined to group (though perhaps would choose to be in smaller groups) by disposition but are usually unable to form such groups because there is not enough food to permit a density of cats or because humans intervene and hinder living choices.

I also now think when cats appear to not get on with other cats its sometimes just because they, like humans, seek out particular friends they select for themselves and just any old cat passing by is not acceptable to hang around with. This feeds into the territory thing as humans won't just have any human passing by in to the living room for a sit and a chat, but are quite happy to have close friends do so and cats take a similar view of who is allowed where.

I think (from my own observations) breeding territory may possibly be a separate issue and that breeding territories and size might vary by time of year, as in the UK cat breeding season is not all year round but dictated they the amount of daylight hours - cat hormones such as testosterone plummet in winter and increase as the daylight hours extend in spring.

Oh and for the kill issue, with 4 cats, 3 of whom are young and could hunt with ease, we get maybe 6 kills per year brought home total, but there are always biscuits down so the hunger factor is removed, so they only hunt for entertainment, which they don't seem to do very much of.

I've heard before they're happy to hang out together, but tend to hunt alone.

Possibly the humans in households fill in the roles, in the cat's view, that your cats do for each other. Certainly if we're in the garden our cat will usually come and settle down very near or with us.

Don't know how cats in groups resolve the territorial issue.

Have you seen the gps device is available soon on amazon?

G-Paws GPS Data Recorder

looks happy about wearing it?

[img] [/img]

All that CCTV and cat cameras, but they didn't manage to film a single cat pooping in a neighbours garden. Proof that cats are getting a lot of flack for something that is probably due to foxes, hedgehogs and other wild animals..........

The GPS wotsit: my cat regularly dumps collars that we don't recover, at fifty quid a pop that would quickly add up!