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No more mountain biking on Sundays if Kate Forbes becomes 1st minister
Poverty – not just the single child payment but measures to alleviate the bedroom tax, bring PIP assessments back in house etc etc
Well, okay, let's take poverty as an example. When the SNP came to power in 2007, the rate of relative poverty for people in Scotland was 17% before housing costs and 19% after housing costs. Today, the rate of relative poverty for people in Scotland is 19% before housing costs and 21% after housing costs. It's gone up! Absolute poverty rates have gone down by 1% in the same period. Is that the great success we are talking about?
https://data.gov.scot/poverty/index.html
It's not enough to reel off the names of things or aspirations, you have to actually show objectively they were successful with facts and data.
Uppity Scots getting you down?
They ruined Scotland!
ha...ha, that's rich coming from one of the most contrarian argumentative folk on this forum
its quite easy to ignore posts, its not as if we are all stood in the pub together
Its just impossible to have a decent discussion
Why because you try and shut down anyone who disagrees with you and Bruce. And it is disagreement, no one has a monopoly on facts or understanding of the full situation. I'm usually on the opposite side of the argument to Dazh and I'm struggling to see how what he's posted can be considered trolling and the personal attacks on him extremely unpleasent. In fact I find the denial of the similarities between Brexit and Scottish Independance quite worrying. No they are not the same but there are a lot of parrellels and to deny that is just disingenuous.
I was having decent discussions with others - unionist even that I disagree with but folk like PCA or Kennyp who understand the issues. Dazh was being deliberately offensive and would not let up. He admitted that.
Hence I'm out.
Bruce – best to just abandon the thread. shame but its for the best
I will no longer be contributing to this thread.
Hence I’m out
Hmmm
I find the likening of the campaign for independence to brexit quite worrying. I know there are arseholes everywhere but the independence campaign that I witnessed and took part in what was outward looking, internationalist and not anti racist. We believed that we could build a better country and join the rest of the world as equals às ourselves.
That's just about the opposite of the Brexit campaign. There were brexit supporters in Scotland too most of the ones I met were left wing and thought the EU was a global capitalist pub I had a long chat with a brexiteer from Dover who took a similar view and was very pissed off to be lumped in with Farage,Johnson etc. I feel much the same way when I read posts doing the same thing on here
[Humza] probably had little other option really unless he fancied following the Tory playbook of hang on at all costs for as long as possible.
To be fair, it's not a terrible idea. If anyone can find a way to squander this opportunity, it's Labour.
When the SNP came to power in 2007, the rate of relative poverty for people in Scotland was 17% before housing costs and 19% after housing costs. Today, the rate of relative poverty for people in Scotland is 19% before housing costs and 21% after housing costs. It’s gone up!
Is there a yearly breakdown of that ? I mean 2007 to 2024 is quite a big jump and a long time. And its not all been plain sailing for Scotland or the UK in general. We've have Brexit, which will have played a part, energy costs which will have played a big part.
At least with a breakdown we can see if there has been a trend, and in which years have had the greatest impact.
In fact the UK as a whole has a high degree of poverty.
Hence I’m out
Does this constitute a legally binding contract ?
Is there a yearly breakdown of that ?
Yeah, it's in the source linked in the post to which you're replying. Figures 1 and 2. Let me know if you find any "huge successes" from the SNP since they came to power. TJ was just about to but he got distracted by the trolls 😢
https://data.gov.scot/poverty/index.html
huge successes” from the SNP
A number things became free under the SNP. Tuition. NHS prescriptions, Free hospital parking And probably many other things. All of which has no doubt helped free up families income.
.
Of course the SNP isnt perfect, but I dont think any party in Scotland or the rest of the UK, or the world for that matter can lay that claim.
All in all its been a rather shitty couple of decades for everyone. But for some to try to lay the entire blame for that at the feet of the SNP is frankly ridiculous. If theres been a change in the figures or percentages, I would think that the events like covid, the Ukraine/Russo war and subsequent energy crisis along with brexit, are largely to blame. I dont think anyone can deny those have had a serious impact on increasing poverty.
But I suppose given that the people of Scotland have voted them in time and time again, they at least are happy to that degree. And maybe they share the notion of nobody's perfect, but at least it isn't the utter shite show thats going on down south.
If anything good is to be said, I would say there is considerably less political corruption here in Scotland.
But I suppose given that the people of Scotland have voted them in time and time again, they at least are happy to that degree
Well, maybe sort of. I've voted for them, not on the basis I'm happy with their performance in power. But more on a lack of realistic alternatives situation. I could not say how common that line of thinking is.
Although I was pretty annoyed at their last local candidate swapping parties as I'd voted for the party, not the candidate.
“Well, maybe sort of. I’ve voted for them, not on the basis I’m happy with their performance in power. But more on a lack of realistic alternatives situation. I could not say how common that line of thinking is.”
Exactly. None of the Parties appeal to me. I would rather have a bland Government plodding along, doing little changes along the way, and changing the obviously really poor decisions that past governments have made. The SNP have done that, though I dont agree with their overall aim of Independence, and I certainly disagree with the way they have acted with Finances in the last few years, Politicians should be better than the general public, and seen to be better, we havent got that now, if anything, as a proportion,Politicians (of all sides) are incredibly devious, sleazy,money grabbing and non trustworthy compared to the general public. It needs total change, but that isnt going to happen, they all have their snouts in the trough.
Sorry, dazh, I'm not pissed off at you. I'm pissed off at the state of reporting of Scotland in the rest of the UK.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1785185365675987247
Just to try to be constructive for a minute, you've kept saying that the deal ended because of the fringe issue of GRR which I've found irritating.
Again, not having a go but this is completely wrong but I totally understand how people can come to this conclusion if they only got their news from UK sources.
GRR probably unified the Greens and the SNP. In fact, it unified the entire Scottish Parliament. All parties (except the Tories) including Labour supported it (Labour only changed their stance when Starmer stepped in). Even the Tories supported it when Ruth Davidson was in charge. It did split the SNP itself though so it would be wrong to say it had universal support.
GRR was stopped entirely by the UK government stepping in and using Section 35 for the first time. It was one of the few shrewd political maneuvers this Tory government has actually managed as GRR doesn't enjoy the same popular support as it did political support. It succeeded in splitting the loyalties of several parties, not just the SNP.
But in terms of the Greens and the SNP it wasn't really a wedge issue. There was little to be done on it once the legal challenges were completed as it was an external factor that stopped it. I'm sure the Greens weren't happy about the right wing of the SNP crowing about it but it wasn't causing issues with the leadership and the Greens, just between the Greens and the Tartan Tories.
What actually caused issues was Yousaf's surprise populist announcement of a council tax freeze last year. Puberty blockers and abandoning environmental targets built on that same issue but it was the council tax freeze that really hurt the relationship and set the wheels in motion. It was a surprise announcement which went against the BHA because there were supposed to be no surprises and it also disproportionally affected the Greens because they are much stronger on the councils than they are in the Parliament.
In addition to all that, there is a civil war going on in the Greens between Harvie, Slater, and Greer and a group of rebels who really really don't like them. But the intricacies of the inner politics of the Scottish Greens is too parochial, even for me.
I get why people who get most of their news from UK/English sources would think it was simple situation that came out of nowhere, but it's really not.
I will try to be more accommodating of your views but it would also be nice if you acknowledged that there is a lot of information and analysis that you miss out of because of the lack of decent coverage of Scotland in England.
Well, okay, let’s take poverty as an example. When the SNP came to power in 2007, the rate of relative poverty for people in Scotland was 17% before housing costs and 19% after housing costs. Today, the rate of relative poverty for people in Scotland is 19% before housing costs and 21% after housing costs. It’s gone up! Absolute poverty rates have gone down by 1% in the same period. Is that the great success we are talking about?
And where are your figures for the UK as a whole, or at least England as that's how YOU want us to be governed?
Example:
Child poverty rates in Scotland (24%) remain much lower than those in England (31%) and Wales (28%) and are similar (if slightly higher) than in Northern Ireland (22%). This is likely to be due, at least in part, to the Scottish Child Payment. This highlights the effect benefits can have in reducing poverty.
While Scotland doesn't look any better than the likes of England, when you consider our population is barely a 10th then if we look deeper and compare us to the North, then we're considerably better.
Between 2019/20 and 2021/22, the average poverty rates in England (22%), Wales (22%) and Scotland (21%) had converged to around the same level, although poverty rates were much lower in Northern Ireland (16%).
Between 2019/20 and 2021/22, the West Midlands had the highest rate of poverty at 27%, followed by the North East and London (both 25%), Yorkshire and The Humber, the East Midlands and the North West (all 23%).
As I said previously, you want us governed just like England, and that would be like a region of England - so what you're demanding is that poverty rises right across Scotland. Stop hiding this, say it out loud!
A number things became free under the SNP. Tuition. NHS prescriptions, Free hospital parking And probably many other things. All of which has no doubt helped free up families income....But for some to try to lay the entire blame for that at the feet of the SNP is frankly ridiculous.
Well, yes, some things became free at the point of use, but they were paid for out of taxes (which reduces families' income) and/or at the expense of other things. "Free" parking at hospitals is a terrible use of land and other resources, for example: the money spent on providing parking outside the hospital building should have been spent on better healthcare provision inside the building.
But in any case, the claim was that the SNP had achieved great successes around things like poverty. When the facts are actually examined, that record fades a bit or is just a claim that's not backed up by data. In some cases the opposite turns out to be true - like, poverty has got worse in Scotland.
That's important because there's a bit of a meme circulating that "well, there's a bit of corruption and taxes are higher and the SNP are dysfunctional, but it's okay on balance because they're delivering these great public services in Scotland". And they're just not!
Who is trying to lay the blame for the whole last 20 years at the feet of the SNP?
And where are your figures for the UK as a whole, or at least England as that’s how YOU want us to be governed?...As I said previously, you want us governed just like England, and that would be like a region of England – so what you’re demanding is that poverty rises right across Scotland. Stop hiding this, say it out loud!
As you have noted from the data I posted above, the difference in poverty between England and Scotland is 1% - immaterial. I mentioned the modest reduction in one measure of child poverty rate earlier in the thread as a small success for the SNP. Government policy in England has been a miserable failure. Anyone that claims there have been "huge successes" in poverty reduction in England is delusional. I can think of no UK government social policy that should be replicated anywhere, at any time. It has been an unmitigated shitshow on domestic policy outside the devolved governments. The SNP being better than the worst UK government of the last century is not a big claim. Scottish residents are entitled to good governance - not just "yeah well we are better than England". It's not a competition with England: it's a competition to improve the lives of Scottish residents. You can be critical of the SNP's track record in power and still be in favour of devolution and independence. Inventing weird sarcastic claims about what other people believe doesn't move conversation forward - critique ideas not people. Hope this helps.
Which is why I noted the regions, but you ignored that.
I can think of no UK government social policy that should be replicated anywhere, at any time
Good, but accept that the outcome of your actions is that Scotland will be treated like just another UK region, this will be reality.
Unintended consequences, and we did point them out to you.
Project Fear no doubt you'll shout, Project Reality we'll reply in a few years - except you'll not be here, just like all the Leavers who've disappeared.
Same with drug death discussion. The SNP's ideas are probably the basis for the way forward, but it's been badly implemented, under resourced, and doesn't really tackle well the change in the habits of drug users who aren't (in the main) dying becasue of addiction to an opioid, but of casual and unsafe multi-drug use that includes opioids. It's worthy of criticism becasue it's failed on its own terms, but that doesn't mean that people that point that out support the drug policy of the rest of the UK, as by any measure it's also a shit-show.
we should be able to have a discussion about Scotland that doesn't either resort to folks complaining that non scots residents can't comment becasue they 'don't understand' or simply saying "yeah well, it's not any better in England" or "But Tories".
Same with drug death discussion. The SNP’s ideas are probably the basis for the way forward, but it’s been badly implemented, under resourced,
Exactly the same with their inclusion policy in education. An absolute nightmare for teachers.
Wait until you see the damage that their Redress Scheme is doing to people who worked in the care sector in the 80's & 90's, absolute scandal.
Just to try to be constructive for a minute, you’ve kept saying that the deal ended because of the fringe issue of GRR which I’ve found irritating.
Then you've misunderstood my point completely. I started this by saying that this was a good example of how coalition politics doesn't work. Whether it was council tax or the GRR which caused the collapse of the govt is largely irrelevant (I would still contest that the GRR was a major factor though, and even if not then council tax isn't exactly an issue whicy should collapse a govt), the bigger issue is that the electoral system has by design produced an inherently unstable government which can be held to ransom by MSPs in both the SNP and Greens who are pursuing personal agendas and factional fueds.
There's a large groundswell of opinion that PR would solve a lot of our problems in the UK. I reckon Scotland and its incompetent govt and politicians has nicely demonstrated why that would be a very bad idea.
PS. There's really no need to apologise or be pissed off. This is an internet forum, a bit of light destraction from the daily grind. Why some people take offence at what is posted on here by me or anyone else is a genuine mystery to me. 🤷♂️
Good, but accept that the outcome of your actions is that Scotland will be treated like just another UK region, this will be reality.
So what if it is? By population Scotland is only 8th when compared to other UK regions - https://www.statista.com/statistics/294729/uk-population-by-region - and 6th in the UK by GDP - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1004135/uk-gdp-by-region - so hardly a surprise that people in other parts of the UK might raise an eyebrow at how much independence supporters bang on about how important Scotland is.
While these discussions of poverty, economics, GRR etc are very interesting, the most profound difference between Scotland and rUK is (in my opinion) the Land Reform (Scotland) Act of 2003. Not only does it make a significant difference to my life (and I'd argue that access to wild places is a lot more important to the whole population than many people realise) it also highlights a fundamental difference in attitude North and South of the border i.e. that what you own is the right to exploit a piece of land for commercial purposes not the right to exclude others from it.
However, despite being fairly clued up on politics up here I'm not actually sure which party (or parties) are responsible for this remarkable piece of legislation, which basically enshrines rule-1 into Scottish law.
we should be able to have a discussion about Scotland that doesn’t either resort to folks complaining that non scots residents can’t comment becasue they ‘don’t understand’ or simply saying “yeah well, it’s not any better in England” or “But Tories”.
The trouble is we've got three different conversations going on at once.
One is about the general concept of independence. It's part of a bigger conversation about the levels of government needed in an interconnected world.
Then you've got a conversations about the Scottish Parliament and just how effective it's possible for it to be within the UK. Also, just how badly is the representation skewed because of the independence question?
Then you've got the conversation about the inner workings and effectiveness of the relevant political parties and the Scottish government.
It's not that non-residents shouldn't be allowed to contribute (I'm not a resident myself although I have as much skin in the game as anyone, if not more*). It's just that if you don't follow the Scottish side of things you aren't necessarily going to have the best understanding of the second and third points.
*Not going to go into my personal details but my future is entirely dependent on the future direction of Scotland and the decisions I'm going to be forced to make are going to have life changing implications for my entire family. **** Brexit.
I’m not actually sure which party (or parties) are responsible for this remarkable piece of legislation,
Everyone except the Tories, but actually helped on by the Foot and Mouth outbreak that occurred between the original green paper and the passed bill.
There’s a large groundswell of opinion that PR would solve a lot of our problems in the UK. I reckon Scotland and its incompetent govt and politicians has nicely demonstrated why that would be a very bad idea.
Except because Scotland isn't a country that has control of all it's areas it means that the likes of the Labour, LibDem & Tory MSP's are only there to 'oppose' the SNP/Green administration as their #1 priority is to stop independence. Therefore they see any improvement to Scotland as something that could/may increase the support for independence.
The majority of the world works on PR, just a few democratic countries use FPTP - why do you want Govts elected on a minority of the vote to have to pay no attention whatsoever to the majority that voted for other policies?
PS. There’s really no need to apologise or be pissed off. This is an internet forum, a bit of light destraction from the daily grind. Why some people take offence at what is posted on here by me or anyone else is a genuine mystery to me.
Like I said, I'm not pissed off at or because of you or this forum. I'm pissed off at the stuff I read in the Guardian and UK press in general. It's really not fit for purpose in terms of informing people what is actually going on in Scotland.
But mostly I'm just pissed off at the corner that Brexit is squeezing me and my family into.
I'm also pissed off at the Tory culture war bullshit that is providing a wedge issue within the same family. Also, **** Alex Salmond.
Sure, my problems are the same facing many in the UK and across Europe and Scotland going independent isn't going to solve any of my personal issues, but it certainly can't make it any worse than the current Tory or future Labour governments.
There’s a large groundswell of opinion that PR would solve a lot of our problems in the UK. I reckon Scotland and its incompetent govt and politicians has nicely demonstrated why that would be a very bad idea.
The SNP have been in power since 2007. For a party that is such a wide church, everything from committed Socialists to full blown free-market neo-liberals, it simply should not have lasted a year.
It's only now after 17 years that all those cracks are finally starting to cause it to crumble. And even then I think it's still too early to say the show is over. Compromises are going to be made and I suspect things will continue chugging along.
You take one conclusion but I take the opposite. PR not only provides more stability but more consensus, compromises, and better decisions in general.
I’m pissed off at the stuff I read in the Guardian and UK press in general. It’s really not fit for purpose in terms of informing people what is actually going on in Scotland.
This reads like you only want to read news that fits your narrative, and wish to avoid being challenged on your view.
This reads like you only want to read news that fits your narrative, and wish to avoid being challenged on your view.
For me, it's not the alternative viewpoint that is the issue it's either (a) the imbalance and/or (b) the lack of knowledge. TBF the latter is an issue with any "news" type media. Once you know a bit about the subject yourself, the more obvious the errors and misrepresentation are. It's likely we've all experienced that at some point. It's partly a byproduct of something becoming newsworthy and then being researched hurriedly.
Lack of balance might be caused by the same sort of approach but, though I don't want to go down the conspiracy rabbit hole, something like Question Time would be a good example of where it's not even attempted. I'm not just meaning as regards Scotland either.
I’m pissed off at the stuff I read in the Guardian and UK press in general. It’s really not fit for purpose in terms of informing people what is actually going on in Scotland.
Hardly a surprise that the UK press will present a UK-centric view, and since when has it ever been fit for purpose for properly informing people about something? I'm sure you could make the exact opposite argument about the Scotissh press' presentation of Westminster politics. If it pisses you off then do yourself a favour, stop reading/watching the news and do something more constructive or useful.
I’m sure you could make the exact opposite argument about the Scotissh press’ presentation of Westminster politics.
Not really.
Scottish politics is always influenced by UK politics. UK politics is seldom influenced by Scottish politics. When it is it's only to be used as a scare tactic. Be careful or the Scottish Marxist government will take all your money or force all your children to be gay every second Tuesday.
You get a range of takes on it from the unionist Scotsman, the indy National, and the Herald trying to keep everyone happy to maximize circulation but only managing to piss everyone off. But with none of them is it the case that you only hear anything about the goings on at Westminster once every six months or so.
Admittedly there's not been much on Westminster politics this week but nothing interesting has been happening, has it? Just the usual announcements of plans to machine gun small boats in the Channel with Spitfires and to introduce a Squid Games style selection criteria for benefits claimants?
UK politics is seldom influenced by Scottish politics.
Or Welsh or Irish politics either beyond the occasional headline. Not a massive surprise, the majority of folks on these islands live in the bottom half of the landmass.
Or Welsh or Irish politics
Indeed, and I don't know much about Welsh or Irish politics which is why I tend to just listen to these discussions and if I do contribute it's with questions rather than telling everyone what my opinion is.
A couple of mentions of "wedge issues". The problem with these issues is that while some people might regard them as peripheral and a waste of time, they can impact a small group of people quite dramatically. The "trans issue" is a wedge issue that should be stuck on the back burner if you're Kate Forbes and it's your life if you're the parent of a trans kid.
There’s a large groundswell of opinion that PR would solve a lot of our problems in the UK. I reckon Scotland and its incompetent govt and politicians has nicely demonstrated why that would be a very bad idea.
No, there isn't. Support for PR is pretty much where it always is, and the UK already has PR in NI and Wales and Scotland and London, and we had it in Euro elections before Brexit. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-we-change-our-current-british-voting-system?period=5yrs
But in any case, the Green-SNP split is just one event. It doesn't say anything about PR or coalition politics generally. There's been 15 years of strong and stable (cough) SNP government under PR. What's been happening during that in nearby FPTP systems? 😆
Or Welsh or Irish politics
I look forward to our Welsh and Irish member friends starting rolling Welsh and Irish (both sides of the border) politics threads. (Welsh! Politics!) I might learn something...
the electoral system has by design produced an inherently unstable government which can be held to ransom by MSPs in both the SNP and Greens who are pursuing personal agendas and factional fueds.
I don't think that's particularly a system issue, it's not a huge difference in outcome compared to a single party supposedly with one agenda and policies that then collapses in on itself because of factions within the party that don't agree with each other. The coalition is starting from the end of mainly agreeing but knowing there are issues where compromise and give and take are going to be needed; the single party from 'total' agreement breaking down because of the difference. In the end it's inability to agree on the differences that breaks it down, and that's down to people rather than the system.
Does entering coalition and knowing you'll have to compromise make people more likely to be willing to compromise? Does signing up to a party agenda and the whip process make it less likely that people will disagree to the extent we are seeing currently? Or are tories just ****s
The problem is often but not always a belief that a London based correspondent has a better understanding of the issue and can explain it much more clearly than a local correspondent.
Yes I àm looking at you BBC.
Worth noting that in the past 25 years journalism is Scotland has thinned down considerably. Newspapers and broadcast. From the culls at the Scotsman in the early part of the century to the almost skeleton staff at Pacific Quay.
This has to have an effect and it can be as hard working things out here as at the other end of the neighbouring country.
Levels of ignorance are noticeable - the selling of the idea that a minority government is a failure, when the system does everything possible to prevent a majority -2011 was a phenomenal fluke which actually relied on the SNP vote coming down slightly to sneak through a gap on the list seat allocation.
There's a sort of logic in that too. Someone looking in with fresh eyes might do a better job of explaining to an audience unfamiliar with all of the detail than assuming any sort of previous knowledge.
Hardly a surprise that the UK press will present a UK-centric view,
Is it a UK centric view (whatever that would mean) or a London centric view?
Well, yes, some things became free at the point of use, but they were paid for out of taxes (which reduces families’ income)
The taxes of the more affluent.
and/or at the expense of other things. “Free” parking at hospitals is a terrible use of land and other resources, for example: the money spent on providing parking outside the hospital building should have been spent on better healthcare provision inside the building.
I'm not a huge fan of free parking at hospitals. To be honest it causes as many problems as it solves BUT there is no doubt in my mind that the previous policies unfairly penalised people at times of need. I can imagine better solutions, but I'm a realist and we won't instantly get brilliant 24/7 fast, safe public transport, and systems design to help the most needy often cost as much as just helping everyone but leave some genuinely unfortunate people disadvantaged. Here's some 100% genuine real life scenarios in "paid hospital parking":
- when my daughter was born she was in neonatal intensive care for a week, my wife was in high dependency. It cost me something like £15 a day to visit them. I could afford to pay that, but I was at that point on SPP so was certainly not feeling rich that month. Other parents on the ward were not so lucky they were going to be in there for months not days. Certainly some of them were not middle class IT professionals. The public transport from my house to that hospital takes 1h 40 m door to door (with no traffic its a 35 min drive sticking under the speed limit). First service doesn't arrive till 8:30am, last service back is about 9pm - I've a 5 yr old to get to school etc too. That hospital serves a very large area, other people would find it harder than me. It was Labour PFI funded building and none of the money from parking went back to the hospital/services.
- five weeks later she was admitted to hospital with suspected meningitis. I was asked to drive her there, but the GP would have called an ambulance if I didn't have a car. She was in for about another week at a different hospital. I parked in a hurry with my daughter, and ended up paying a penalty as I had overstayed the time limit. Again I could afford it. As I queued to pay it, there were cancer and dialysis patients paying to access services every few days. Perhaps I could have appealed - although the staff said it was unlikely to be accepted; in reality most people who were there probably had a "good reason" why they should not pay on this occassion. That hospital is only 22 minutes by car, but there is a 55 minute bus journey every two hours. Its our "local" hospital for routine appointments. Going by bus takes over half a day. Going by car takes an hour out your day.
- my brother works in 3 different hospitals in a different part of the UK. He gets a staff permit at 2 of them, for which he pays - although a permit does not guarantee a space. The third one, he doesn't get a permit as he is not in often enough; junior staff who don't work unsociable hours also don't qualify for a permit. When he goes to run his clinic at that hospital his only choices are to pay to park in the visitor car park (which the NHS will nor reimburse) at £8/hr, or park further away and walk/bus in. Since he's paid by the NHS for the time he spends travelling between hospitals guess which he does... now its a bit of an extreme example and niche nuance of working across multiple sites but it doesn't follow that free car parks detract from patient care.
Any hospital parking solution needs to consider:
- cost to staff who are working odd shifts
- the existing geographic spread of those staff
- how to make sure staff feel safe when commuting
- how to make sure staff on the wards are focussed on care not the time limit on ringo
- demographic of patients
- how not to penalise "regular" hospital users
- that some of the most vulnerable patients are most likely to be regular visitors
- how to make sure someone arriving at A&E or MIU is not delayed or put off seeking help by car parks such that the medical condition becomes harder or more expensive to treat
- hospital locations are increasingly decentralised
- patient transport and similar services have been hugely erroded and patients increasingly rely on friends/family to get then to apointment
- routine scans / tests / clinic appointments should not take a full day - ecconomically its good if people can get back to work.