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Im sure if the uk from stoke up asked for a devolution it’d be popular.
It was an absolute stinker of an idea 20 years ago and I don't see people in the North of England being any more enthusiastic about it now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_North_East_England_devolution_referendum
It looks like we are seeing the end of the SNP for now without the hassle of Independence.
Could be.
If it happens I don't think it would be a bad thing. Support for independence seems to have decoupled from support for the SNP.
It would make sense to have the independence movement separated from individual political parties.
Fair point bruce
Obviously it's a bit smug to quote yourself, but seeing as Labour managed to call a VoNC and then lose it today...
If anyone can find a way to squander this opportunity, it’s Labour.
They'll not be terribly disappointed it's easier to win a UK general election while they are in opposition in Holyrood. They can point out woes of the struggling SNP minority government, rather than being a minority government themselves struggling to get their own prògram through
In related news, Ash Regan voted with Labour, the Lib-Dems, and Tories. Apparently, 'The vote was purely performative and in many ways irrelevant."
Yes, it's the vote that is purely performative and in many ways irrelevant.
wish I could have been a fly on the wall for Swinney’s meeting with Forbes - “I don’t want it” “me neither it’s a poison chalice” “I was looking to retire” “I’ve got a wean at home, I got a battering last time” , “nothing compared to the shit I took when Eck was having a rest, who else could do it”, “Jenny?” “Naw, Kezia will no let her”, “**** we need to be careful, we might get Neil Gray here”
In related news, Ash Regan voted with Labour, the Lib-Dems, and Tories.
TBF, she's not part of the government and actually left because of some of their policies. She'd have been called hypocritical if she'd voted with the SNP and Greens.
Yeah, it's more Alba's personal journey of discovery this week. From swaggering around with the list of demands thinking they were kingmakers, to the crashing realisation when it became clear Yousaf was quitting, and now a 'performative and in many ways irrelevant' vote where she was the sole indy MSP to side with the unionist MSPs.
I'd give her and Alba a solid 2/10 for this week's performance review.
But who knows, perhaps others thought they played a blinder.
and now a ‘performative and in many ways irrelevant’ vote where she was the sole indy MSP to side with the unionist MSPs.
in some ways she did exactly what “WE” all want “THEM” to do - vote with their heart/head not simply sticking with the ideas of who is good/bad over Indy/unionism. If you are an Indyfan who doesn’t like the Greens, Alba are indicating there may be alternative ways to build consensus. I expected her to abstain - as a symbol that she was open to persuasion by either side and reinforce her kingmaker potential, I’m guessing she wasn’t happy to have been rebuffed in Yousaf’s speech.
Realistically SNP are going to do very little about Indy in the remainder of this parliamentary term, she has her performative and in many ways irrelevant referendum on referendums bill and got it more attention - and Alba more attention this week than she’s managed in the last year. Alex will be delighted with the attention.
Alex will be delighted with the attention.
True. I got the impression she thought Yousaf was going to take her seriously and was shocked when he didn't. I guess the constant complaints that the tail was wagging the dog when it came to the Greens didn't register as she thought a single MSP who wasn't elected as a member of the party she represents should be able to set the agenda for the entire Scottish government.
People say she doesn't come across well in media. Personally, I just don't think she's very bright.
Salmond was just happy to be on TV again.
Swinneys going for it i see...
Support for Independence declines heavily if the Euro is proposed as a currency (down to something like 35% if memory serves)
That's mainly because +99% of folk have never experienced a change of currency in a country - I have, living in Germany when they went to the Euro. For the 'man in the street', no big deal - they still spent what they were paid in.
I’m not convinced that Freeports are a great idea,
Freeports; loved by criminals, disingenuous politicians and gullible voters everywhere.
Did I miss the comments from you Unionists accepting that the UK borrows £120b per year?
Prestwick was a freeport for 30 years - they're nothing new.
Swinneys going for it i see…
I would assume that means he has reached some kind of agreement with Forbes.
I think the right of the party has been getting ignored for a long time (not that I've been unhappy with that) but it doesn't exactly do much for making the SNP a broad church. If he does do a deal to keep the right happy then it's just kicking the can down the road but maybe that's the plan.
Or I could be wrong and we'll get a proper leadership contest that'll widen the gaps in the party.
I'm actually fine with it, either way.
they still spent what they were paid in.
Oh sure, personally I don't think it matters at all, and I think most people would get used to it in no time, but folks care about this stuff, and too many changes too quickly can have a chilling effect, as the polls show.
ChrisL Full Member
Forbes would signify that the SNP might move away from being a generally left-of-centre/social democrat type party.
scotroutes Full Member
What evidence is there of that? I mean, I’m not convinced that Freeports are a great idea, and she has certainly supported them in the past, but she’s not currently in Cabinet and they seem to be going ahead anyway.
It is merely the impression I got. The coverage I saw of the leadership contest last year seemed to portray her as more socially conservative and "pro-business" than Sturgeon or Yousaf. If the SNP were to elect her as leader I'd expect its general direction to move to be more in-line with her apparent preferences, which overall seem to be to the right of where the party has been recently.
"That’s mainly because +99% of folk have never experienced a change of currency in a country"
That's one of those weird arguments that the right put forward seemingly forgetting that decimalization was effectively changing the currency. So our currency is only 50ish years old.
It would actually be easier to go to the euro than from LSD to £p
Once indy happens no snp? So then what?
Independence isnt about the snp, its about becoming an independent country. So far as im concerned they can do whatever they want. They can disband, reform under a different name or stay as they are. It's not really about them.
.
After that we can see what we can do about getting rid of the so called 'Scottish Conservative party' as they pretty much defer to the main party down south.
Personally I hope it involves a trebuchet 😀
I believe the so called "Scottish" conservative party might become an actual Scottish conservative party and could eventually establish it's own "constituency" amongst the Scottish public. Without any connection to unionism.
It's always been a disappointment to me that the main three Westminster parties didn't actually set up separate Scottish parties, instead opting to retain all control at the UK level. For Labour in particular, the so-called Party of Devolution, I think this indicates a lack of belief in the very concept. Of course, I'd expect lots of alignment, but contrast it to the situation in Northern Island where a similar situation exists and the NI parties still use it for the benefit of their constituents. Wasn't Murdo Fraser, for all his faults, once in favour of true devolution of the Scottish Conservatives?
Wasn’t Murdo Fraser, for all his faults, once in favour of true devolution of the Scottish Conservatives?
From what I remember that was the key differentiator between him and Ruth Davidson in the 2011 leadership contest, with Davidson making it clear she was very much against a split.
Wonder if she still feels the same...
It’ll be a while until we even get the argument for independence, and the world has changed a fair bit since 2014, not a lot of it positive unfortunately.
First thing is to firm up the SNP and the government, then show progress, after that there needs to be clear focus on the benefits, biggest issue for me just now is the SNP is bereft of leadership potential, they have lots who want power, but have no track record or ability to have a decent public image.
Forbes is out so it looks like the good ship SNP will continue on it's way for a while longer.
Swinney says he is going to be different, we'll have to wait and see. We'll also have to see what role Forbes takes from here on. Assuming she accepts any roll. That is speaking as an SNP member.
“Forbes is out so it looks like the good ship SNP will continue on it’s way for a while longer.”
Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.
The SNP have been doing that, mostly. The Gender Bill, as mentioned way back on this thread, was political, the general public were not at all bothered about it, and they then started asking why is time being spent on this, when there are far more important things to be done?
Get back to basics, do them right, then, when there is time, and public will, go for the less important, or, the bigger things like Independence. The SNP have to show they can be trusted in Government before they can get anywhere near to thinking about Independence again, I’d say at least another 10 years, probably longer, as there will be a coalition for the next 7 or so years if things stay as they are now with the polls, with the other Parties unlikely to vote for Independence.
It’s always been a disappointment to me that the main three Westminster parties didn’t actually set up separate Scottish parties, instead opting to retain all control at the UK level. For Labour in particular, the so-called Party of Devolution, I think this indicates a lack of belief in the very concept.
I agree. I also think the Lib Dem’s miss a massive trick to be seen as the party of “compromise and common sense” by loudly arguing for federalism to make the U.K. work, rather than jumping on the unionist coat tails.
Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.
And will be acceptable to the Scottish Greens, unlike Humza Yousaf and Kate Forbes. Pragmatic choice.
London man Nick Robinson was given a slot on Reporting Scotland
Be glad that the process was calm enough that they didn't send Lyse Doucet or Kate Adie (long retired, I know)
Which is what the majority of people want in their Politicians, someone steady, with some standing, who isnt going to rock the boat too much, just make a few changes for the better, repeal any bad Laws, dont spend too much money, and dont tax us too much.
When things are going well, it would make sense, but with things going downhill just now, is it going to help them in upcoming elections with all the talk of 'continuity candidate', Swinney has been around for a long time and has been through resignations, votes of no confidence and intrinsically linked to the old SNP brigade like Salmond, Sturgeon, Ewing's, etc, it almost feels like the SNP are bereft of ideas or leadership potential, even Forbes just not going for it feels like she's just not wanting to risk failure, rather just wait for Swinney to fail and take over then.
Only good thing is at least it stops the Stephen Flynn rumours, never thought i'd miss Blackford, i know he was lightweight in some aspects, but he knew the game well and could talk well.
"Lyse Doucet or Kate Adie" Either one would have been better
Interesting contrast between this thread where Humza is seen as too boat-rocking and the Labour thread where Starmer is seen as too timid!
I wouldnt say too boat rockng but when he tipped the boat over he fell out
Viewed from my little corner of the country, I wonder if Yousaf has (accidentally) played a blinder. With a couple of years to the 2026 elections, the SNP might be able to distance itself from the failures of DRS, HPMA and mandatory ASHPs and even get some spades in the ground on the A9 and A96. All of these failures could be laid at the feet of the Scottish Greens. 😂
If they can do that and start work on a new Belford Hospital and work on the A82 between Fort William and Inverness, both projects in Kate Forbes constituency I would be very happy and extremely surprised
Belford and a whole bunch of other major nhs projects were binned recently as well as a massive reduction in social housing (2/3rd cut or thereabouts) so I wouldn’t expect anything for a few years (and the repercussions of those cancellations will soon start hitting the economy)
Sorry Munkyboy Should have said I live in Fort William there's a touch of cynicism in my post people have been waiting on the new Belford since my son was born (in the Belford)34 years ago
The most recent budget has examples of delaying capital projects like the new small ferries as there was no cash. Save X£££ by deferring the start until another financial year. I would be delighted if they started tendering for dialling the A9 etc. won't hold my breath for the next 2 or 3 years though.
"Our modelling indicates that our resource spending requirements could exceed our central funding projections by 2% (£1 billion) in 2024- 25 rising to 4% (£1.9 billion) in 2027-28."
I would be delighted if they started tendering for dialling the A9 etc.
A great weekend for you then. Tenders for Tomatin-Moy are already being appraised.
That is good news. Three years after they failed to get a. acceptable contract in 2021. If the new schedule is met it will have taken over 20 years.
So John Swinney as the lame duck/caretaker First Minister and SNP Leader up to the next election campaign, and then handing over to Kate Forbes who gets to warm up as Deputy First Minister? Or does having Forbes inside the tent mean that she is under greater control?
Neither one is very inspiring.
Neither one is very inspiring.
Perhaps not but still a damn site better than Tory/labour.
Yesterday's man and Sunday's woman...