A far darker SNP shall emerge.
What utter shite.
As for watching Scottish tv programmes, you will still be able to watch what you want. Although, it would be very refreshing to listen to radio Scotland sports news and amongst the top stories would be nothing about the English premiership. That's worth a yes vote in itself.
Although, it would be very refreshing to listen to radio Scotland sports news and amongst the top stories would be nothing about the English premiership. That's worth a yes vote in itself.
You're in fantasyland if you think you can avoid hearing about that in the sports section of the news in any country
What a pathetic reason for a yes vote nobeer.
What a pathetic reason for a yes vote nobeer.
*removes kilt, places broadsword back into the roof
**** it, if it means ridding my life of as much footy as possible I'll go full blown local.
Im off to get naked and paint myself blue whilst deep frying everything
Although, it would be very refreshing to listen to radio Scotland sports news and amongst the top stories would be nothing about the English premiership. That's worth a yes vote in itself.
You're in fantasyland if you think you can avoid hearing about that in the sports section of the news in any country
Why? I expect the Scottish news to be regional news. If I want to hear about football south of the border, I'd listen to a relevant station.
Athgray - dear oh dear.
Far too much of the rhetoric is based round our dear leader, who I agree is a bit of a roaster, but also a very good politician. The 2014 vote is not a vote for Salmond, it's a vote for our future.
How often is the premiership a top story on Radio Scotland? I can imagine the slight tinge of anger you feel when ever a news item from south of the border infiltrates your world. Don't feel too bad nobeer, I have heard far worse reasons than yours for a yes vote. There are nationalists out there who are fizzing if Andy Murray is described as British, or the BBC weather map marginalises Scotland. I think many people living down south would be shocked at some of the laughable reasons given for breaking up the union by nationalists.
Anyway, I found these two interesting reads for differing reasons
Why? I expect the Scottish news to be regional news. If I want to hear about football south of the border, I'd listen to a relevant station.
Because whatever happens in the Premier League is of interest to many people throughout the world, even the Scottish. Well, it seems that way, because I've been to many different countries, and systematically managed to avoid seeing it on the news at some point, even if it's just mentioning the top four results. It's a global league.
Sure, you can listen to a local radio station to avoid it, but you don't need to be independent to do that.
As another poster said. Of all the reasons to want independence, that's a particularly futile and absurd one
There are nationalists out there who are fizzing if Andy Murray is described as British
Well, he is. You can be as Scottish as you like, but, if you inhabit the same lump of rock called the British Isles, then guess what: you're also British.
You don't need to tell me that zokes. I think the Andrew Marr interview linked above is about spot on.
If I was Scottish I'd vote for it. I'd prefer it if they vote no, and the SNP field candidates in England, as I like their policies much better than any of the English parties.
What a pathetic reason for a yes vote nobeer.
well its better than voting No because Wee eck will become Putin
if you inhabit the same lump of rock called the British Isles, then guess what: you're also British.
So you are now Australian and no longer British then and some [northern]irish born people will be a tad cross with that as well
this is not a serious point either laugh or dont
I think many people living down south would be shocked at some of the laughable reasons given for breaking up the union by nationalists.
Have you looked at some of your reasons 😯
There are so many non-facts circulating about this.
I read recently that John Swinney has claimed that Scottish telephone users will receive less spam marketing calls under a devolved government.
It's becoming a sad and desperate formula. Pick an issue, claim how much improved things will be once we kick out the Westminster Uberlords. Really not sure how that will stop calls from India but hey-ho.
I'm waiting for the press release about fridges running that much better in a Free Scotland.
So you are now Australian and no longer British then
Well, in about 9 months time when I have dual nationality, then yes, technically I will be Australian, I suppose; but I'll also still be English, and British.
And curiously, thanks to an agreement between the Australian and New Zealand governments, if I wanted to be, once I've got Australian citizenship, I can also be a kiwi!
JY. I put forward an argument outlining the erosion of ties over the coming years with the UK. Not one nationalist reply could satisfactorily refute this claim, with some coming on here and effectively agreeing with me.
I think an SNP led administration post yes will be like a Putin led regime in terms of style but obviously not policy, and yes I do think avoiding this scenario is a better reason to vote no than not liking the premiership is a reason to vote yes.
[quote=hels ]
I read recently that John Swinney has claimed that Scottish telephone users will receive less spam marketing calls under a devolved government.
The one about mobile roaming charges going up under Independence was even better (particularly because it was made-up on the same day that the EU announced legislation that roaming charges would be reduced). Not quite as good as the "we'll have to bomb Scottish airbases" one though.
They'll also have to stop showing Balamory on Cbeebies.
Not one nationalist reply could satisfactorily refute this claim,
So you still agree with yourself - thanks for that 😕
FWIW it obvious the break up of the union will lead to the break up of the union the real issue is whether that is good or bad. The answer is just a guesswork [ from wither side]
TBH i dont think anyone could change your mind on any of this as it is not always based on fact [emotive reasons] and you have strong opinions on the matter - that is not an actual dig if it reads like it. Nothing wrong with strong opinions on issues and both sides have emotive arguments
with some coming on here and effectively agreeing with me.
Have you heard of a self fulfilling prophecy?
Re putin and premiership - they are both rubbish arguments but I should have added a wink as it was more said in jest than to debate which of these arguiments was the worst
[quote=molgrips ]They'll also have to stop showing Balamory on Cbeebies.
Say it's not troooooo!!!
JY. I am not taking offence and don't wish to cause any. You are right in saying that I am not an undecided voter. I realise I also have no chance of converting some on here. I am fairly even handed on most issues but not this one. You cannot remove emotive aspects from the debate. They are integral to it as most peoples day to day lives are run by emotions and relationships rather than a slide rule, statistics or political charts
they'll also have to stop showing Balamory
What the story ?
See what i did there 😉
[quote=athgray ]JY. I put forward an argument outlining the erosion of ties over the coming years with the UK. Not one nationalist reply could satisfactorily refute this claim, with some coming on here and effectively agreeing with me.
I'm not understanding why anyone would try to refute the argument that independence would result in an erosion of ties with the rUK. Isn't that self-obvious?
You cannot remove emotive aspects from the debate. They are integral to it as most peoples day to day lives are run by emotions and relationships rather than a slide rule, statistics or political charts
Well not really. People need their lives to be comfortable and easy, and that requires a strong economy. And the economy is run by charts and slide rules, unfortunately.
Social ties scotroutes. I outlined my feelings on this earlier. You can make what you want of the point and say I am talking sh*te. You wouldn't be the first on this thread. 😉
They are integral to it as most peoples day to day lives are run by emotions and relationships rather than a slide rule, statistics or political charts
True but this is a big decision like getting a mortgage or having kids. I would use a bit of both in the decision making process.
Many , on both sides, will just make an emotive decision
Personally, if could vote*, I would vote to leave as I think Scotland is very different politically from , particularly the southern parts, England and would benefit from greater freedom to do as she pleases rather than have to have Tory polcies despite not ever [ ok once] voting tory in Scotland.
* Scottish but live in England - to be clear since childhood so wont be painting myslef in woad and crying freedom but dont call me English either
[quote=athgray ]Social ties scotroutes. I outlined my feelings on this earlier. You can make what you want of the point and say I am talking sh*te. You wouldn't be the first on this thread. I'd liken it to leaving your home town. The friends with which you maintain something common are the ones you'll keep in touch with. The ones you don't, you'll gradually cease to contact. Of course, you'll also make new friends along the way.
And an annual Scotland-England match will just be like going home for Hogmanay. 😆
Some of those "close social ties" being celebrated in Edinburgh today.
Members of the far-right Scottish Defence League (SDL) and anti-racism campaigners have been staging rival protests in Edinburgh.
[img] 
[/img]That'll be the Sunderland Division of the Scottish Defence League and the Blackburn Division of the Scottish Defence League then?
That'll be the Sunderland Division of the Scottish Defence League and the Blackburn Division of the Scottish Defence League then?
So English fascists support Scottish fascists (there's a Saltaire on one of those placards). What's your point, caller?
I am not sure the point to be proved by quoting me before posting a picture of some far right gathering. I don't think I could be anymore vehemently express my opinions on nationalism???
Athgray what is the point of differentiating between the style and policy of a government at this point .You didn't distinguish between them earlier.
SDL a shower of racists wherever they come from.
When I mentioned social ties I was thinking along the lines of last years olympics rather than a joint right wing rally. That must be the yes campaigns 'positivity' coming through. Who is scaremongering?
I don't think I could be anymore vehemently express my opinions on nationalism???
said the unionist
You are just choosing which brand of nationalism you like [ unionism is a national identity clearly] not opposing nationalism- the same could be made about any position to be fair
I am in no way saying you are a racist or support that shower to be absolutely clear
Don't see how the Olympics could really be called a social tie. A fantastic experience for the volunteers and competitors but not much impact beyond that...except that they were an economic boon to the south east of England.
scotroutes - Member
Some of those "close social ties" being celebrated in Edinburgh today.
LOLZ "Never forget Glasgow Airport". Is that really all they've got?
The premiership point was a bit tongue in cheek, but it would appear that athgray doesn't really do tongue in cheek. I don't wish to be an independent country through any anti-English or British sentiment, more of a pro Scottish sentiment. Unfortunately, I don't actually think we will succeed in a yes vote, as many people fear change, and the status quo is what they have been used to all their lives.
The irony is that the union is not the norm worldwide, independant countries are. The politicians have even moved on from the economic arguements, as they all (even Gideon) accept that Scotland is viable, it is only hurdle of fear of the unknown that is wheeled out now.
Ruling by fear, it's worked for centuries.
I can do tongue in cheek nobeer, however it does not always come across in this format. It seems we have all made up our mind where to put our cross next year, I am sure we can all agree on that.
Yip, I wouldn't try to change your mind, each to their own.
The irony is that the union is not the norm worldwide
Actually that's not true. Most countries in Europe are made up of smaller old states. Germany and Spain are both Federal states these days , not sure about others.
EDIT Switzerland too
There is no UKGBNIDL, so the above is a perfect example of discrete English and Scottish organisations coming together to argue for a common cause. That's a very good model for the sort of social, non-political ties we could still have post-independence.
Contrary to most of the posters in this thread, I reckon DC is a better (cannier?) politician than Salmond, by giving him a Yes/No vote (and nothing else) he's got rid of the sniping and ended up with a heads I win / tails I win too situation. If Scotland becomes independent, it'll be Tory governments in rUK for the next 20 years. If it fails, he's a hero to the UKIP voters and the like.
It's a pity devo-max isn't on the table - though for the reasons above Dave would never have offered it. A fully federal UK (with an English, Welsh and NI government) would be IMO the best solution, and get rid of the Lords while we're at it.
[url= http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=England&word2=Scotland ]There can be only one way to solve this debate...[/url]
I'm not sure it's win win for Cameron - going down in history as the Conservative and Unionist party leader who presided over the break-up of the union? But then he'd be crying all the way to a generation of election victories. An interesting paradox.mogrim - MemberContrary to most of the posters in this thread, I reckon DC is a better (cannier?) politician than Salmond, by giving him a Yes/No vote (and nothing else) he's got rid of the sniping and ended up with a heads I win / tails I win too situation. If Scotland becomes independent, it'll be Tory governments in rUK for the next 20 years. If it fails, he's a hero to the UKIP voters and the like.
When the inevitable nae vote arrives, though, it's prob true he will get a boost from it all. Some ersatz statesmanship courtesy of Alec.
We're still in the phoney war stage. ..plenty of time for the relentless scaremongering from better together to sicken voters.
I'm not sure it's win win for Cameron - going down in history as the Conservative and Unionist party leader who presided over the break-up of the union?
not really, its not like he's lost an embarrassing war. a referendum is going ahead. westminster is sort of on side with it happening. there is a good chance he might be viewed as quite liberal on the matter by not sending in the troops to stomp some heads. which is what quite a few nations around the world would do. that line of thought might take a while to settle in mind you.
double post
