[Closed] Scottish Access and SSSI - Am I Right?

You sound like you exercised a sensible approach which seems to meet the Code and the nice lady had a point too:

Excerpt from 3.46 "In a small number
of areas and for very specific reasons, such as to protect a rare
plant or bird, you might be asked to follow a specific route or
not to exercise your access rights."

I dare say your canoeing was less intrusive than 30 people splashing about!

You were in the right.

FWIW Piemonster and I had a very pleasant conversation with two RSPB rangers today at Loch Garten. They asked us not to get too close to the Reed beds at the South and East sides. Asked...

They were also very interested in our mode(s) of travel.

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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/50229659697/ ]DSC_1487[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/22384952@N02/ ]Colin Cadden[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode ]Flickr2BBcode[/url]

You can use this map to check out all the various protected/designated areas:

https://sitelink.nature.scot/map

Spin, thanks for that. The site is an SSSI But the documents linked to from that page confirm there are no special restrictions Abbs responsible access is allowed

I've been more than firmly accosted on Loch Lomond about canoeing near the Osprey nests.
Like you I was clear about my awareness of issues but also my rights.
We went from 'you can't canoe' to 'look, will you avoid the point on this island'. Which was a lot clearer and more helpful than the 'you can't canoe here'.

But the documents linked to from that page confirm there are no special restrictions Abbs responsible access is allowed

In which case I would drop snh an email and point out that advisory signs of avoiding certain areas or certain seasons would be more helpful than a blanket sign and grumpy students.

documents linked to from that page confirm there are no special restrictions Abbs responsible access is allowed

Actual bans are very very rare indeed, it's almost always a voluntary/responsible access thing.

In which case I would drop snh an email and point out that advisory signs of avoiding certain areas or certain seasons would be more helpful than a blanket sign and grumpy students.

Good suggestion.

Fun fact - site link was my idea and I built the first version for internal use in SNH about 17 years ago 🙂

Which loch?
Being a SSSI shouldn’t affect your access to a site. But a SSSI is designated for its features of interest - if the features for that site are birds which nest in the margins then a ranger may have pointed that fact out to you.
There is also general advice around not disturbing birds during the breeding season eg dogs being in short leads etc., but again this would be a request rather than an instruction.
SNH only has a few rangers, mainly seasonal on National Nature Reserves. If you weren’t on an NNR I’d be suspicious.

PS I don’t still work for SNH

Lindean Loch in the Borders

She then softened to say that I should not canoe there but they couldn’t stop me. She then headed of to swim in the loch with the other 30 or so people swimming.

Hypocrisy much? Splashing around in the water is less disruptive to wildlife that paddling in near silence in a canoe/kayak? Really? #rollseyes.

FWIW Piemonster and I had a very pleasant conversation with two RSPB rangers today at Loch Garten

Anna and met probably the same two rangers when we stopped the night in their carpark a couple of weeks ago. Very pleasant and just wanted to remind us of our responsibilities but that we were also very welcome to stay. Then we had a good chat about the van 🙂

You have the right to responsible access which you were doing

(Disturbing nesting birds, damaging property etc is not allowed under other legisation and so does not count as responsible access.)

As Matt says: there should be advisory signs giving clear guidance as to the affected area and alternative routes, contact telephone numbers  (for affected land).

Please also copy in your local access officer.

Fun fact – site link was my idea and I built the first version for internal use in SNH about 17 years ago 🙂

Cool. I've used it quite a bit for work (geography teacher). It's a good resource but it's rather well hidden on their website.

The SNH site management plan for states

Objectives
To continue to encourage access to the site for educational and recreational purposes by maintaining the visitor facilities and ensuring access to the site is in keeping with the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (SOAC)

Email sent to regional office, will see what they come back with

@Spin glad you like it. 😀

@Frank the features are beetles and the flesh water habitat itself - brings into stark felief how poor many SSSI citations are. But it’s hardly surprising when you consider how old they are and how they were determined.

I’ve been more than firmly accosted on Loch Lomond about canoeing near the Osprey nests.

I think in the case of Loch Lomond it's probably easier overall to go for the heavy handed approach and stem the masses. My sister in law is/was a volunteer ranger there and the giving an inch/taking a mile rule very much applies. Especially when everyone gives them hassle from the get go.

The sitelink (useful, thanks) says under "Operations requiring consent"

Recreational activities, other than those carried out responsibly in keeping with the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (SOAC).

So by implication, there's no problem with recreational activities carried out responsibly in keeping with SOAC. QED.

For some time now my stock response to someone saying "I'm a warden/ranger/council employee etc." has been to politely ask to see some formal identification...

I had an encounter at Loch Leven, Kinross, with a ranger, that was so incredible, that I came to the conclusion that I was the victim of an elaborate hidden camera prank, so, given the lack of any uniform or badge, I asked to see ID. He didn't have any and asked that I accompany him to his car. I refused, but said I'd wait for him to return. He didn't.

When I got home I called SNH as his lack of return made me even more suspicious, but it turned out he WAS the ranger. His manner, tone, approach, behaviour, and downright misrepresentation of the guidance had me convinced otherwise.

Loch Leven is a RAMSAR site, which means there are additional penalties for deliberately disturbing wildlife. IMO, a single kayak, on a day when the wind was 20mph, gusting 35mph, wasn't going to cause any disturbance, and my behaviour was always going to take into account any birds I encountered. Loch Leven is also Scotland's largest lowland trout fishery, with multiple outboard-powered fishing boats out on the water on a daily basis. The stitch-up agreement between RSPB, SNH and the fishery seems to indicate that these boats have zero impact.

My sister in law is/was a volunteer ranger there and the giving an inch/taking a mile rule very much applies.

I get this.

But on this occasion (and others) I've been properly given a hard time when launching. You 'have' to register (I have pointed out with two boats we can self rescue from water) for safety, you 'have' to wear a life jacket (they couldn't tell me the difference between bouyancy aid and life jacket) and you 'can't land on Islands other than Inchcailoch'. When asked nicely about the more intricate details and why I couldn't land on Islands etc, I get a ranger calming down quickly and understanding a bit more. It's just hard to have such a 'hard sell' and be told 'have' when all are 'responsible practice would be'...

As I said above, I’ve emailed the SNH office. I’m not going to let this one go though. It’s one thing to have poorly informed public or rangers, but when that is reinforced by an official sign giving incorrect instructions then I won’t let it drop. I’m going to chip away at this until the sign is updated or removed.

I’m not going to let this one go though.

Keep at it. A couple of years after the Land Reform Act a red faced gent accosted my wife and I as we cycled round a local reservoir. There were outdated "No Cycling" signs.

Three e-mails to SCottish Water got no joy. Local Acces officer - Nope. Local Councilor got brushed off by Scottish Waterwith excuses about compliant signs being devised.

Finally I had to write to my MSP pointing out there was little point our parliament passing laws if even publicly owned bodies ignored them. He got the signs taken down.

But on this occasion (and others) I’ve been properly given a hard time when launching.

Sadly I'd imagine the ranger turnover rate is quite high so nobody sticks around long enough to either learn the ropes or identify the difference between an experienced canoeist and a daytripping numpty. Even then there are those that should know better still get militant and refuse to camp 500m from the shoreline.

The whole thing is an utter disaster, on one hand there is legislation designed to protect the Loch and surrounding environment, enforced by paid and volunteer rangers who get stick from nigh on everyone they meet and undermined from above by a tacky retail park and theme park.

But yes, that must be bloody frustrating considering the amount of pleasure crafy flitting about the place as well.

The thing with Loch Lomond is that it's a national park (Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park) with by-laws in addition to and sometimes against the LRA.

No idea of the exact situation here but maybe they have a rule that lifejackets must be worn :/

These by-laws also allow them to have no-camping zones etc.

Stage 1 complete. Positive response from helpful local authority Countryside Ranger / Access Officer who has confirmed that paddlers do have right of responsible access to the loch. He said that the sign is out of date

Stage 2 is work in progress, this is to get the sign replaced or temporary supplementary information added to it. I'm on it.

Edit: also got response from SNH who were not interested at all. They just forwarded my email on to Council as land owners.

No idea of the exact situation here but maybe they have a rule that lifejackets must be worn

There isn't any extra laws or byelaws.
The Lifejackets is to encourage drunk punters on jet-skis to not drown - this from the Ranger who first insisted we had Lifejackets.
The canoeing around the Osprey nest areas is also just 'responsible access' - although they were suggesting that one Osprey on one island = whole of Loch Lomond should be avoided. I pointed out we had 5 Osprey pairs on Loch Tay, including one pair choosing to (successfully) nest less than 100m from a location used by multiple adults and children on a daily basis to launch canoes/kayaks/motorboat/sailing boat / sea-plane etc. Again, it suddenly became 'oh, I was told once that the Ospreys are very timid'...

I support them being there and influencing, but like the OP in this thread, it is rather too heavy and 'must' rather than 'can you work with us to avoid...'.

My frustration is that when there is a sign saying I cannot canoe, and I canoe, it looks to most people like I am breaking the rules. I know I am not but I should not have to defend myself to others for doing something perfectly legal (even though I quite enjoy a robust argument when I know that I am in the right). More worryingly though, it puts my kids off from coming with me. They don't like conflict and after Saturdays events they are worried that the police will be called to arrest us if we go again!

Exactly.

SNH should come through, they are generally OK on such things.

SNH should come through, they are generally OK on such things

I sent them quite a detailed email, pointing out their Management Statement, their responsibilities and the poor advice given by someone claiming to be a SNH ranger. I made your suggestion about more informative signs which would result in people being able to carry out their responsibilities as users better whist helping meet aims of SSSI site. They didn't respond to any of that, simply said they forwarded my email on to the Council.

Update:

Stage 2 is work in progress, this is to get the sign replaced or temporary supplementary information added to it. I’m on it.

Local Authority Ranger / Access Officer has been out and taped up the No Launching of Craft section of the sign so it is covered, he will arrange for it to be permanently replaced in due course.

Result!

Nice one.

There are loads of out-of-date and nonsense signs dotted all over the place. "NO Cycling", No Access", NO Mountain Bikes, almost all of them have no authority.

They just encourage busy bodies with a grudge to have a go, who manage to spot the "No Cycling" signs but manage to miss all the ones about controlling dogs!

Its like the "No Parking Residents Only" signs on a public road or my personal favourite "No Turning"

I drive up to check the sign this evening, must admit that I felt quite pleased with myself. I’m looking forward to being a grumpy(er) old(er) man with more time and taking on more projects fixing the wrongs of the world

Ridiculously satisfying, isn't it? I managed to get the local RSPB folk to change their temporary signs during "lockdown" as they were saying that the forests were closed.

Oooh, could you have a word with Scottish Wildlife Trust then @scotroutes?

I've been to two of thier sites where paths are taped of, car parks closed and "we're not open" signs everywhere...

Nice one op.

Its like the “No Parking Residents Only” signs on a public road or my personal favourite “No Turning”

Those signs just make me want to turn round by the sign even though I don't need to😀

Update. Went for a paddle today. Someone has removed all of the tape that the ranger applied to cover up the sign!

Tape is cheap though. Black paint maybe harder to remove.

Or a battery-powered Dremel... Nice one OP, and interesting (and rare for STW - level-headed) thread throughout.