[Closed] Salary shared to every team member - should I be a bit cross?

I'd be rather annoyed...

Sounds like a breach of GDPR info?

Are you a director or CxO? If so, it’s often public if people know where to look.

Standard employee in the UK. Would be rather upset and look to take action.

A Return on Investment report regarding my role and impact,

Aren't you part of the "investment" surely without declaring all costs it can't be a complete report.

Are you public sector and/or unionized?
Are you permitted to discuss salary with your co-workers?

Depends if you're under or over-paid. If overpaid then all your colleagues now know you don't deserve your excessive salary. If underpaid they're probably laughing at you for being a mug.

Seriously though I always wonder why people get bothered by this. If everyone was open about what they get paid then the bosses wouldn't be able to play people off against each other. Perhaps talk to your colleagues and encourage them to declare their salaries too so you can all know if your bosses are being fair or not?

Pay should be transparent, otherwise it breeds cronyinsm.

I'd be more concerned about their spelling of best practice to be fair ...

Yeah, my first thought was that it's a bigger problem for the people paying you!

I had an old boss who hired me back when I returned to the country, but my previous salary forced him to pay me uncomfortably (for him) close to more senior employees who had been with the company longer. But since everyone was an adult, nobody ever found out and it was never an issue.

Where I work the salary band of every employee is in the staff database!
So I can find out how much, within about £8k, all 10,000 or so staff are paid.
That’s in a quasi-public sector company.

It's quite common to be told not to talk about renumeration, like an unspoken rule.
I'm pretty sure it's unlawful, but what you gonna do?

I'm semi retired, but work in IT, and this practice really galls me..people quit for better money because you never get a good raise without jumping ship.

Then the company has to bring in new hires for more money anyway.

What does your company privacy notice say? Your firm could claim their legitimate interests outweigh your rights. As it's not large scale processing or sensitive data I doubt they've done a DPIA., but you could ask your DPO for one and the LIA if it exists.

My salary is published on my employer's website.

Am I being unreasonable to be a bit hacked off, or am I being precious?

You are entitled to be hacked off.
Who give the person the rights to share your earning? They can share the grade scale but not individual pay.
Either they show everyone's earning or they don't.
Nothing in between.

Any employer asking their employees not to discuss salary isn't doing it for the employee's benefit...

It's a fascinating subject but in short, yeah, I'd be pretty angry if my salary got shared in this way. Whether pay should be transparent is not as straight forward as you might think.

If you make all salaries transparent then one unintended consequence of that would be to severely restrict the job market. People don't tend to move unless they get a decent lift in salary, it's not always the case but it is one of the factors, so if you make all such pay increases transparent then ultimately you're going to create either resentment or else you're going to limit the ability to award such pay increases.

You might argue that limiting the movement of people in this way shouldn't be anything to worry about, but in an Anglo Saxon economy such as ours, that would be a real problem. Because the way our form of capitalism works, it relies very heavily on there being relatively high levels of movement between companies - it stimulates radical innovation for example (and is why Anglo Saxon economies are so good at inventing new things, whereas Alliance models of capitalism, where there is very little movement of people, tend to excell at process refinement. Germany and Japan are good examples of this and why their cars are so much better than ours!)

So yeah, pay transparency might seem like a good thing but it creares a whole host of problems.

I've never understood why companies don't operate a simple pay band structure. Any of my staff will know the range I and my CEO are on, or any of thier colleagues.
For the op, depends on what company policy is and why you might want to be shy about your salary.

I wouldn't be upset by it. Use it to your advantage.

I’ve never understood why companies don’t operate a simple pay band structure.

Because it's limits their ability to hire talent when they find it. Good people cost more than mediocre ones. I will however add that most organisations are woefully bad at identifying talent and to some extent performance outcomes among work forces are the result of factors other than talent.

Because it’s limits their ability to hire talent when they find it. Good people cost more than mediocre ones.

That's a generous way of looking at it.

I think it's more because it would limit their ability to underpay people.

I think it’s more because it would limit their ability to underpay people.

That would suggest you're coerced into accepting a low salary, at least relative to your peers. No one forces you to accept the offer. Now please don't get me wrong - there is a LOT wrong with the job market and the distribution of income right now; but salary transparency isn't the answer to that problem.

That would suggest you’re coerced into accepting a low salary, at least relative to your peers.

If you don't know what other people are paid, you can't make an informed decision about whether it's a low salary or not.

@chewkw

You are entitled to be hacked off.
Who give the person the rights to share your earning? They can share the grade scale but not individual pay.
Either they show everyone’s earning or they don’t.
Nothing in between.

The scenario you've described is counter-intuitive. The OP has given a reason why their salary was revealed. If other staff members salaries aren't used in a similar process then revealing their information would serve no purpose.

What is your view on the OP being named in the document, is that OK?

Oh, I misread. Your salary alone rather than the whole team? Yeah, I'd be a little put out by that.

Probably a mixture of both but as my salary if available online I’m probably not really seeing it from the same perspective.

If you don’t know what other people are paid, you can’t make an informed decision about whether it’s a low salary or not.

I changed jobs at the end of last year and made a 33% jump in basic salary. I have no idea if that is what others in the same role as me are earning or not but I know it's a salary I am happy to accept and that really is all there should be to it.

You are your own agent in salary negotiations and your value and worth are there for you to set. I agree that knowing what everyone else is earning would make it more likely that everyone ends up earning the same but that's why communism didn't work (and why the public sector is so much more ineffecient - and I have no problem with that, it's neccessary for this to be the case - than the private sector).

Again, all of this is not the same as saying that things are working effeciently and fairly at the moment - they are not. Social mobility has gone into reverse and to some extent there is a sort of 'serfdom' emerging among the millenials and Gen Z populations, which is the result of an indirect form of coercion, largely the result of the ridiculous property market.

Any employer asking their employees not to discuss salary isn’t doing it for the employee’s benefit…

I disagree

I started with a company in 2004. Straight away colleagues were telling me how bad pay rises and bonuses were.

Within a couple of years I had a couple of big rises and bonuses. I quickly realised that the folk who complained about compensation never did enough to warrant a decent rise or bonus.

Do well, and you'll be compensated accordingly. Do the bare minimum and you'll receive commensurate compensation.

Over the years as I've progressed up the ranks I understand why that is, and why you need people at different levels. not everyone climbs the ladder and as such compensation will vary across teams for people soon the same day to day job, but over time ability, potential and success will create salary differentials

I quickly realised that the folk who complained about compensation never did enough to warrant a decent rise or bonus.

Have you read about/heard of Price's law?

I agree that knowing what everyone else is earning would make it more likely that everyone ends up earning the same

I don't think that's true.

I think it's fairly obvious that some people contribute more/are more skilled than others. The aim isn't to have everyone paid the same, it's to have people paid *fairly*. The more information that you have, the more possible that is.

I disagree

I started with a company in 2004. Straight away colleagues were telling me how bad pay rises and bonuses were.

I'm not sure how you think that works in the employee's favour.

Do well, and you’ll be compensated accordingly. Do the bare minimum and you’ll receive commensurate compensation.

That's true of some companies, but not all. And not for all people.

I’m not sure how you think that works in the employee’s favour.

It stops the successful employees being resented and disliked by their colleagues that can't grasp why they're not being paid the same.

The aim isn’t to have everyone paid the same, it’s to have people paid *fairly*. The more information that you have, the more possible that is.

It's an interesting thought and I'll admit I haven't thought it through from that angle before. I guess the obvious question is who decides what is 'fair'?

Oh, I misread.

Me too. I thought you had been forced to share your salary with the whole team.

It stops the successful employees being resented and disliked by their colleagues that can’t grasp why they’re not being paid the same.

I don't think it really works like that.

I don't think people get upset with the individual being paid more than them, but the employer.

Just your salary or everyone else's? If just yours, then yes you might like to complain. Unless you are one of the staff who's remuneration is public (doesn't sound like it). On the other hand, it's a good opportunity for some open discussion...

Everyone has an inbuilt ranking of themselves against others. Based on skills, experience, grade, but not normally salary. If you are one of the stars and you are more highly paid for that, then having it public is likely in your interest. Other team members won't resent an obvious star being better paid. It's seldom in the company's interest, however.

If you want to know what you are worth apply elsewhere and ask for a decent rise (20% is a decent rise for the same role).

Are you permitted to discuss salary with your co-workers?

Since you can't ban this I guess it's an implicit yes.

Wouldn't bother me, but I already know what my colleagues earn and vice-versa (if they were bored enough to want to look).

Are you a good return on investment? Argue for a pay rise.

Ask for a pay rise.

I'd be more worried that someone saw fit to commission and publish a full report into whether I was worth the money or not.

Did they find you were value for money?

Saw a great lecture two years ago by a guy who ran a company with a very different structure - for annual pay review, everyone stated what they thought their pay should be, then colleagues and peers voted on whether that was too little, just right, or not enough. He used it to illustrate how women frequently undervalue themselves in the workplace.

That sounds crap!! Allow all the mediocre workers to vote to undercut you! No thanks

I’ve never understood why companies don’t operate a simple pay band structure

Where I work planned to but then bottled it - I think the excuse was the bands would have to be so wide (and overlapping) that they'd be meaningless. There is some truth in that as we grow a lot through acquisition and outsourcing contracts so there's a lot of people coming in via TUPE.

Salary transparency might help with some of the pay discrimination cases that still make it to court every so often.

I was at a meeting of the middle and senior managers with HR talking about pay, and suggested I’d be very happy my  pay to be published in my peer group, along with everyone else’s, and preferably with an indication of what I needed to do to get paid more next year than to person ahead of me and to stay ahead of those snapping at my heels.
The interest from some and the uncomfortable shuffling from others spoke volumes.  HR looked uncomfortable.

Are you permitted to discuss salary with your co-workers?

Of course, no law against it.

We all know what we are paid but only due to a permissions cock up on a server which meant a spreadsheet with everyone's salary was publicly available for a short period...

All our share option allocations are on Companies house website as part of the official filings, so anyone can see how staff are effectively ranked. The allocation is very unfair IMO (to certain other people).

No resentment that I know of, although we do get the odd jokey comment eg 'they almost earn as much as you' etc....

That sounds crap!! Allow all the mediocre workers to vote to undercut you! No thanks

It worked the same for everyone, including him as CEO - he exampled (is that a word?) a woman who was almost unanimously voted as having asked for too little, was invited to submit a higher salary request and that second request was again voted too low. I can understand it might not work as well if your company is made up of dicks! If he needed someone to do what I do, I'd work there, no problem, it sounded ace. 🙂