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Video showing the difference between barefoot and shoe running
The moment you take your shoes off and run, the body instantly corrects, heel striking whilst barefoot you won't do! it is too painful.
The africans seem pretty good at distance running and I think it is purely down to the fact they have more sunny days so they enjoy it more!
There could be something in that. Spain has had a resurgence in distance running the last few years and I can testify to the fact that they get more sunny days than us!
Is their a sunny day/mileage training coefficient?
Just watched the Newton video. I was reading too much into it thinking you were almost running tiptoe.
I actually run pretty well near on midfoot with a tendanct to hit with the outside of my foot first. Looking at the guys running in sand that's pretty well how I run.
All 100% of my running is off road though, and I probably use all of the foot depending on wether I'm going up or downhill.
I'll look at that tonight.
I remember the trend for barefoot running in the early eighties, bloomin Zola Budd.
I'm pretty lucky that I've never suffered from any running problems apart from carrying weight. And so by accident I might be a 'natural' runner. When I did a lot of 1/2s and a few marathons I just did them in sub twenty quid JJB things.
Bit of research looking at how effective different priced shoes are:
Do you get value for money when you buy an expensive pair of running shoes?
Author(s): Clinghan R., Arnold G.P., Drew T.S., Cochrane L.A., Abboud R.J.
Citation: British Journal of Sports Medicine, March 2008, vol./is. 42/3(189-193), 0306-3674
Publication Date: March 2008
Abstract: Objective: This investigation aims to determine if more expensive running shoes provide better cushioning of plantar pressure and are more comfortable than low-cost alternatives from the same brand. Methods: Three pairs of running shoes were purchased from three different manufacturers at three different price ranges: low ([pounds]40-45), medium ([pounds]60-65) and high ([pounds]70-75). Plantar pressure was recorded with the Pedar in-shoe pressure measurement system. Comfort was assessed with a 100 mm visual analogue scale. A follow-on study was conducted to ascertain if shoe cushioning and comfort were comparable to walking while running on a treadmill. Forty-three and 9 male subjects participated in the main and follow-on studies, respectively. The main outcome measure was the evaluation of plantar pressure and comfort. Results: Plantar pressure measurements were recorded from under the heel, across the forefoot and under the great toe. Differences in plantar pressure were recorded between models and between brands in relation to cost. Shoe performance was comparable between walking and running trials on a treadmill. No significant difference was observed between shoes and test occasions in terms of comfort.
Conclusions: Low- and medium-cost running shoes in each of the three brands tested provided the same (if not better) cushioning of plantar pressure as high-cost running shoes. Cushioning was comparable when walking and running on a treadmill. Comfort is a subjective sensation based on individual preferences and was not related to either the distribution of plantar pressure or cost.
6'4" around 16 stone, I run in shoes with no support, effectively barefoot. You need to establish your running on your own.
In which case you're either 1) fortunate, or 2) carrying an injury or steadily going about contributing to one that you're perhaps not yet aware of.
IMO I don't agree entirely with establishing your running on your own - this can easily lead to any combination of bad training habits, injuries and people being put off the "running is good for you" vibe. Not such as an issue if you generally look after yourself and/or only run 10-20 mins here and there, but not so good if you start running distances and/or competing.
Just my tuppence - if it works for X people then cool.
Thing is barefoot running won't make Nike, etc. millions of pounds of profit, and a pair of Vibram Five Fingers will last for years. I mean what are all those children going to make, if we don't buy a new pair of runners every 500 miles?
All 100% of my running is off road though, and I probably use all of the foot depending on wether I'm going up or downhill.
Me too. I sometimes throw in a bit of Elbow, Knee, Backside for good measure!
In which case you're either 1) fortunate, or 2) carrying an injury or steadily going about contributing to one that you're perhaps not yet aware of.
Present me with evidence that padded shoes will prevent injury?
The running shoe industry has been made in the last 40 years, before that man ran without support shoes, for millions of years. Our bodies are built for running
-Running on two legs is slower in a sprint, but more efficient over long distances
-Humans have toes that are far shorter than all other primates. This has been shown to be a big advantage – but only when running over distance
-Hairless bodies and our all over sweating allows running in the heat. Antelope aren’t nearly as efficient at getting rid of heat – they must stop to pant
From birth our feet are bound in shoes, they suffer muscle atrophy, break your leg and wear a cast for a few months and you will suffer muscle atrophy.
By running without support your feet and legs work in the way nature intended, several million years of evolution versus about 40 years of "product" development.
Let's just forget the evolution of man, and the fact that no animal runs on their heel.
That's all well and good but it's a bit simplistic to say there's no room for improvement on what evolution has provided. Sure we evolved to run around chasing/dodging stuff on the plains, but these days most of us aren't running on the plains and expect to be active well into our fifties and beyond, instead of wrecked by our thirties and dead by forty.
That's not a defence of running shoes necessarily, just a reminder that "as we evolved" does not automatically equal "can't be bettered".
By running without support your feet and legs work in the way nature intended, several million years of evolution versus about 40 years of "product" development.
I ran in a XC race some years ago in the Northeast. I forgot my spikes and only had bulky heavy trainers. The ground was firm underfoot so I ran in barefeet (Oldgit, Bruce Tulloh was also famous for running barefoot) I finished 4th (not a high key event) however when we went clubbing that night my feet were sore!! No doubt due to the fact that they werent used to the abrasion and the skin was soft etc.
Suffered no other ill effects.
just a reminder that "as we evolved" does not automatically equal "can't be bettered".
1/2" of padding under our heels, large numbers of runners suffering injuries that have only really existed for 40 years, a multi billion pound industry selling shoes, orthotics, etc. etc.
Does this equal 'being bettered'??
Versus letting our legs and feet become stronger and work in a natural method, fewer injuries due to careful and unconcious foot placement, and no multi billion pound industry??
Is this years full suspension bike really better than last years?? Why does one guy ride 27 gears and FS, whilst the other guy powers up the same trail on a single speed rigid bike. It's product and industry. Runners World and Singletrack have no business if we run barefoot and keep riding the same old bike.
I wasn't knocking it, I did it myself for a while, doing about four miles a night every now and then like that. I also did a lot of running in my army issue boots. In fact I ran the SDW in those, going barefoot over the seven sisters.
(not the whole distance, just 80 miles to Birling Gap?)
large numbers of runners suffering injuries that have only really existed for 40 years, a multi billion pound industry selling shoes, orthotics, etc. etc
I agreed to some extent until this. We dont know that these injuries didnt exist 40 years ago. We do know for certain that Gordon Pirie broke distance world records training in Plimsoles and that Zatopek broek even more in Plimsoles after training in boots however what can we conclude?
Would they be better runners with todays technology? Was it the training that made then world-beaters?
I suspect it was the latter and I also suspect that todays crop of athletes, (and I include all runners who train to improve) have a very low threshold for pain both in terms of the "good" pain that comes with hard exertion and the bad pain from injuries.
I went from legs that hurt like hell running in Saucony Triumphs, recommended for their great padding because I needed it being 6'4" to ditching the shoes, my running style adapting and suffer no pain! In addition my back ache that I have suffered for years from injuries has diminished since I started barefooting. All the time being lectured that it was madness, books like 'Born To Run' and plenty of great websites are all saying the same thing, unfortunately the barefooters don't have the marketing budget of Nike.
Anton Krupicka in his film Indulgence talks about running barefoot, and is shown trimming his new La Sportiva's saying the wedge of rubber under the heel prevents a natural running style. But no manufacturer is going to say, we got it wrong! Personal Trainers are the worst, had far too many lectures on how stupid barefooting is, never had an answer to the retort "show me evidence", again all part of the industry 😕
didnothingfatal
I am not disputing your own experience. Are you saying you run regularly barefoot?
Over what terrain/distance/terrain?
I went from legs that hurt like hell running in Saucony Triumphs
Bizarrely - that's what I had when I was struck down with IBTS mentioned above
andy-m, those pumas you put up a pic of - cheers, been looking for a replacement for ages (I was certain they were called something else & couldn't find on google)
they're supposedly race-driving shoes (used to come as flameproof boots too 8) ) & were always being given away at the puma "outlet" shop near me -til it shut
very comfy but I've never run more than 100yds in em
I am not disputing your own experience. Are you saying you run regularly barefoot?
Over what terrain/distance/terrain?
Yeah I run in Five Fingers, pretty much exclusively now on a mix of road and trail (both single track and bridalways) so mud, hardpack, leaves.
Runs are 5 to 10 miles a session, and doing this most days.
I run in shoes when terrain demands it, normally in the mountains, where I use Salomon, Millet and La Sportiva. My running style in shoes is no longer a regular shoe style, shorter step with higher cadence.
I'll be going to VFF KSO's, this winter, and will be probably completely shoeless within the coming year.
It may not be for everyone! I know! But, too many people dismiss it and say "get your gait analysed and buy expensive shoes", I'm positive this is not the answer.
I think part of the problem with all outdoor sports, etc. is the industry people trying to make money off something, the latest shoe, the latest bike, latest GoreTex. Everything is better this year than last year, REALLY? Runners World, Singletrack are all supporting the industry, everyone trying to make a buck!
The running shoe industry has been made in the last 40 years, before that man ran without support shoes, for millions of years. Our bodies are built for running
Man wasn't 6'4" and weighing 16 stone for millions of years!
After reading the first few posts I was tempted to post my own experiences, but isnt that the problem with forums in that the responses are almost always anecdotal. Unless huge numbers of people respond to posts then those anecdotes could be the exception rather than the rule. It may be the case that you run in shoes with no support and have had no injuries, but if you've only been running like this for 20 years then a problem may result which leads to the next 20 years plagued by injury. I'm sure this is what scientific studies are designed to address.
BTW not a criticism of anyone or anyone's views as I'm not strongly convinced about the whole over-pronation school but again that's because I've found it hasn't worked for me.
I started with cheapish shoes from JJB (30/40 quid), they have a good range OF beginners stuff. Middle of the road shoes are great for road running but get something decent if you go off road.
I run off road marathons and choose Salomon XA PRO Ultra GTX, just because i want them to last a little longer than 6 months. In the long term i believe they are worth the 90 quid, which i must add is a lot of money to me.
Montrail Highlander are great for shorter off road/fell, plenty of grip, a decent amount of padding and are available on the web for 40 quid.
Inov8 are worth staying well clear of. IMHO
started running on a cheap pair off Asics which didn't really provide alot of cushioning. A i started piling on the miles went over to Adidas A3's which were quite heavy and didn't get on well with the outsides of my feet, so changed to climacool's which although light and very airy didn't offer support and durability. Changed back to a pair of more expensive Asics which lasted ages until the sponge became solid. Moved over to Nike baumermans which played havoc with my feet causing constant blisters, callouses and pain after anything over 5 miles. Finally bought some Asics Kayano 14's this year for 65 pounds and are turning out to be ace trainers
My only problem with running is i suffer from feet that feel like there overheating to a point where at the end of my run i run cold water on them to cool them down
Anyone know anything to help towards this??
Oh, remember to also stretch alot after every run, especially if you cycle alot
I've been fine with a middling pair of Asics for the last 18 months during which I've gone from struggling to do more than a mile or so to 10k in 50 minutes type of pace. Had a period of shin splints at one point but worked through it.
As to all the gait analysis and different types of trainers - my question is how come there's none of this choice with, say, AstroTurf football boots? I reckon I get through a few km in each game... I can only assume there are other ways to differentiate footy boots for marketing purposes, like 'control surfaces' and other nonsense.
Raddogair - thinner socks maybe?
anyone using 5 fingers for running off road , whats the sole like or do you use your toes?
how come there's none of this choice with, say, AstroTurf football boots? I reckon I get through a few km in each game...
Because when playing football you're not repeatedly bashing the feet and legs in the same way as you do when running, more turning, twisting, stopping and starting. In the same way running off-road (and I mean what you might call 'proper' fell running as opposed to running round a park) each footfall is at a different angle so you're not stressing the joints in the same position.
FWIW I had some TFL probs with my knees and have worn orthotics for 15 yrs with no TFL probs. Anti-pronation shoes are standardised whereas my orthotics are for me.
I'd be interested in those 5 finger things but they're not cheap are they!
Raddogair - thinner socks maybe?
tried that, and proper running socks but still cant seem to reduce the hot feeling
I'd be interested in those 5 finger things but they're not cheap are they!
Seems ironic that the minimalist approach they are advocating comes at such a high price. Funny that isnt it!
"The africans seem pretty good at distance running and I think it is purely down to the fact they have more sunny days so they enjoy it more!"[i]
No I reckon is more due being a 3rd world country and abject poverty and having to walk or run for mile after mile in bear feet whilst us fat westerners get in our cars and drive every where.
This whole conversation about running shoes makes me laugh, its people with too much disposable income, taken in by marketing trollocks. Just buy some shoes, run in them.
[url= http://antonkrupicka.blogspot.com/2007/10/minimalist-footwear.html ]Anton Krupicka[/url]'s thoughts shoes, with two Leadville wins and running a few hundred miles most weeks, he may know a thing about footwear.
I agree the minimalist footwear being so expensive is ironic, but on the flip I wear VFF's most days, for just wandering around, etc. Only negative is the strange looks and questions about what have I got on my feet. My running shoes are specific much like my bike shoes. The sole is also showing zero signs of wear.
just a reminder that "as we evolved" does not automatically equal "can't be bettered".1/2" of padding under our heels, large numbers of runners suffering injuries that have only really existed for 40 years, a multi billion pound industry selling shoes, orthotics, etc. etc.
Does this equal 'being bettered'??
I didn't say it does- the bit you quoted in full:
That's not a defence of running shoes necessarily, just a reminder that "as we evolved" does not automatically equal "can't be bettered".
My point was just that assuming that what we already have is perfect is a shakey basis for arguing that things (for instance running shoes) are crap. There's a difference between that and arguing that running shoes [i]aren't [/i]crap.
It looks like there's plenty of evidence to suggest that they are indeed a bit crap, but the fact that it's not as nature provided isn't part of it.
Newtons anyone?! well i am liking mine and i swap between these and racing flats for all my running. when i am not offroad that is.
So I should be wearing no shoes at all. Great money saving tip guys thanks.
Coming tomorrow: [b]What pliers for removing glass and gravel from bare feet?[/b]