[Closed] Runners - newbie questions!

I wouldn't overthink it.

Have a go in your approach shoes. If you find they're no good then buy some running shoes. If/when you do, it's worth going into a proper running shop so they can have a look at your gait and advise what level of support you need.

You'll not need water for shorter runs. I'd hate to run carrying a bottle.

You might find it hard going at first if you're on hilly terrain. Running uphill is hard work for anyone. You can always try fast walking the ups and running the flats and downs at first.

I'm no expert but couple of things from me:

after another knee re-build I thought off-road would be better (softer?) but physio said road would be better bet to avoid uneven surfaces and risk of twisting / stretching to avoid holes etc

I sometimes carry a bottle, but find a running one (smaller diameter) or small 'panda pop' type (2/300mm?) bottle easier to carry

20 mins of running is still a good effort

Best advice, slow down. Find the rhythm that matches your fitness rather than flat out, you’ll enjoy it more.

Just to disagree a tad, don't run in approach shoes (FWIW I reckon gait analysis is baws though!) get a pair of running shoes, even the cheap decathlon ones will be much better to run in than approach shoes.

Agree with mrb123, no need for water, keep hydrated the rest of the day.

Try couch to 5k, it really is very good.

edit - rhinofive makes a good point, lots of folk bemoan running on tarmac, but at least tarmac is generally a predictable surface, and in summer paths and grass is solid anyway, it's not as if it has any give.

It's very easy to go too hard if your legs are strong from cycling. Take it easy.

Also, IME don't run through pain, at least starting out - I trained for our local 1/2 marathon not having been a consistent runner before, and tweaked my tendon whilst running.

Gave it a couple of days and went straight back out on a long training run, and did some damage (minor tear) and a year or so later, it's still not back to where it was.

There's no shame in resting to properly heal.

I just bought Karrimor Caracals as they were  cheap. Size up though.

A patella strap has been a revelation. Rather than  stretching and rolling after a run I'm now good to go the next day . No aches at all

I run in winter sometimes when it’s dark and wet, or my bike trails are filthy.

I had knee problems a few years ago, and the physio I visited blamed my totally unsuitable badminton trainers. No idea if they were right or not, but i now keep a pair of running shoes In the garage just for running. I’m far from an expert, but i guess that even a decent set of running shoes bought in a discount warehouse is better than shoes which never had running in mind.

I never cycle without water - even in a short ride. But I have never felt the need to carry water on a run.

+1 for the NHS couch to 5k to get you up to running for 30min stretches without getting injured. Completed it this very morning & feeling great 👍

Just to disagree a tad, don’t run in approach shoes (FWIW I reckon gait analysis is baws though!) get a pair of running shoes, even the cheap decathlon ones will be much better to run in than approach shoes.

Probably worth saying that "approach shoes" can cover quite a range of different things so may depend on what you actually have.

Some are the stiff soled climbing/scrambling orientated things that I agree wouldn't be very suitable for running. Some are more like a trail shoe and would be perfectly fine for a bit of running, particularly off road.

I agree with nobeer.

If you need a bottle of water for running that amount of time you aren't hydrating properly before you go.

Also agree about shoes. And decathlon for a cheap pair.

If its getting rough or sore slow down or walk and just enjoy it.

Vary it though. I like a nice flat run and some nice hilly stuff and a fast short run each week. The only condition is i run thrice a week i don't fix plans.

Also, IME don’t run through pain, at least starting out

This is a difficult one, knowing what wee pains to run off and what to stop for, my knee really swelled when I started running 2.5 years ago, was a couple of years after a meniscus op, but after a couple of months it settled down and I've never had any bother with it, ultras, hill races etc, been great.

I started running to work (4k each way) because I have a kid and just running around playing in the park would have me hobbling for several days. Just take it really easy at first, warm up by walking then jog for 5 minutes, walk a bit, jog a bit. See how you feel the next day. If you have any pain, give it several days before you try again. If you're running and feel pain, stop running and walk home. It took me several months before I could run 4K without worrying about injury.

Uneven surfaces are hell on your knees. Running shoes will take care of hard surfaces. A hard, smooth surface is much better than any uneven surface in my experience.

I have just finished couch to 5k , i used the bbc app, and can thoroughly recommend it. It's really well structured and you will notice the progression in your running fitness.
I run with a bottle and don't really find it annoying.
I would get proper running shoes

This is a difficult one, knowing what wee pains to run off and what to stop for,

This is a good one. HOpefully if you're gentle enough you shouldn't have too many aches and pains in the days after; but the likelihood is your thighs will be sore and possibly your calves.
But if you're getting knee pain, shin pain or similar, take some time out, don't try to run through it, but work out what might be causing it.

Uneven surfaces are hell on your knees. Running shoes will take care of hard surfaces. A hard, smooth surface is much better than any uneven surface in my experience.

Everyone is different. I have very thin soles on my road shoes and get way less issue (ankles are prone to rolling) and i find uneven makes my joints stronger making it less likely to roll.

Appreciate that will drpend on existing knee/ankle conditions.

Get a foam roller.

As all of the above - don't go too hard or far to start with. I am a pretty regular runner during the summer months (I CBA running in the cold and wet during the winter months) and ran several 10ks and a half marathon in just under two hours last year (nothing spectacular, but quite reasonable for a 52 year old occasional runner), however when I started back up in the spring I went back to shorter runs (I have a local circuit of 1.6 miles which is my goto) - I then build up from there. Running for an hour (like you are aiming to do) means running around 6 miles at 10 minute mile pace and I would struggle to do that now (I did have a rib injury which set me back 8 weeks).

Get a few pairs of shoes in the clearance sale at Sports Shoes Direct (I like Saucony) and just keep the pair that fit you.

Thanks for all the replies, just had a look at the couch to 5k plan, sounds like the ideal thing for me to start with.

My approach shoes are more of the stiffer walking/ scrambling type so I'll have a look on Amazon / decathlon for some cheap shoes and see how I get on!

Hols2 - I know what you mean about running round the park with the kids, knackers me out too but hopefully once I start getting out on the couch to 5k thing I'll be able to keep up with them for a bit longer!

It’s very easy to go too hard if your legs are strong from cycling. Take it easy.

Yes. Or at least if you're cardiovascularly fit. I can run quite a distance before I get tired but my legs develop all sorts of aches for the next 72 hours if I do that. I don't like running.

Most of what's been said above:

* The C25K plan is great and gives you a nice and gentle plan to build up to a 30min run. Once you get there Parkruns are excellent.

* You don't need water for that distance, even at the height of summer, assuming you're properly hydrated before you start. Running the morning after a heavy night at the pub would probably be the only time you need to take water for a half hour run 🙂

* Gait analysis has fallen out of fashion, and probably for good reason. Get some reasonably well padded neutral shoes from Decathlon and you're good to go. (A proper running shop is a nicer place to get the shoes as they'll have more models to try on, and maybe even a treadmill you can use to test them - but they're not essential).

* I wouldn't worry too much about the surface you run on (ignoring proper mountain runs or running on a beach, here!) - I personally aim for somewhere where I won't have to stop for traffic, ideally with a nice view. The surface is secondary.

Anyway, there's another long thread here which a lot of us are on, feel free to join in 🙂

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-running-2018-thread-beginnersultraswhatever

If you have Garmin connect have a look at the 5k plan there. I used the Geff one and found it good. If you are cycling fit it will fill like you are doing too little, but stick to it ask it will help you avoid injury.

Just to add sportshoes.com are a good source of last season's running shoes at reduced prices, and there's a link in the "supporters of singletrack" sticky post at the top of the forum.

Especially when starting out, its worth getting a discounted pair to start with as its like bike saddles, you'll find some brands work for you and particular models and are instantly comfortable, whilst fancier make/models are theoretically perfect but are really uncomfortable for you.

It’s very easy to go too hard if your legs are strong from cycling. Take it easy.

Going against the grain a little, I don't like couch to 5k if already fairly fit from other exercise.
The stop start style means that if you've got decent cardio and strong legs you can be going harder and faster than maybe you should be when just starting out. But there's bits of you that aren't up to that level for running, and they get injured. For me it was the ligaments around ankles. Had 2 goes at c25k a good few years back, then found that slow and steady worked better for building up my joints for running. Running for fifteen to twenty minutes non stop naturally kept the pace lower than doing the c25k interval style, and let my legs develop "running" strength before going too hard. And off road seemed to help my ankles build some stability. Just build from there gradually.

Guess this wouldn't apply so much if you're genuinely starting from "couch", but I don't think most regular cyclists are.

Run in running shoes that are comfortable.

You shouldn't need water on a run less than an hour.

Run easy. By this, run at a pace where you can easily have a conversation. If this means walking, then this is okay. Pace will come. Running 'not easy' increases the chances of injury.

Enjoy it. Music/ podcasts/ pure silence. Whatever works. If it's a slog, then you are running too hard.

You don't need to fuel for easy runs, especially for the time of runs mentioned. It's very easy to think you can out eat exercise but you can't.

Rest/ recovery is important to see benefits. Take it easy and listen to your body.

If you use strava, leave your ego at the door. Run easy!

I'll echo much of the above.
C25K is awesome, particularly if you've got some fitness from cycling as it'll save your joints and injuries.
Always stretch after a run, focus on calfs and hamstrings as these will often be where problems develop, but a full lower body stretch if you have time.
I personally don't carry water, and find any kind of backpack less than ideal. One of the joys of running for me is the lack of faff, and a CamelBack or similar will just add to that. I do know people who like those bottles that mold around your hand so they could be worth looking at, or take a small bottle of water you can dispose of once empty. But really, you'll be fine up at at least an hour.
Re. terrain, I agree with the point on jarring off road, but running on the roads is hard on joints irrelevant of the shoes you wear. I did a lot of the C25k on the grass around my local park, it was relatively flat so you won't turn ankles etc. but also much easier on your knees.
Shoes are worth spending on and I suspect what you have now will lead to discomfort or injury. You can vastly over complicate shoe buying but to keep it simple, buying a good pair of neutral shoes from a reputable brand will be a good start point. Nike Pegasus, Asics Cumulus and Brooks Ghost are all good start points, but most brands have a long standing mid-range neutral shoe that will work. Bear in mind that everyone has started running again so there are fewer bargains around than there once were.
And finally, enjoy it. It's a great way of seeing and exploring the local area. I know where I live much better now I run, it's great fun following paths and seeing where they go.
And finally, finally, parkrun is great. Once it starts back up again it's a great way to get a little bit of competition without the pressure of a proper race, there's a huge range of fitness levels and you'll find a great community around most events.

You don’t need to fuel for easy runs, especially for the time of runs mentioned.

This is another thing that I think cyclists can fall foul of. Most of us might consider a 4hr MTB / road ride to be a decent workout and fuel accordingly. A 45 minute run will similarly leave me feeling like I've done some great exercise but actually the number of calories burnt is a fraction compared to the 4hr ride.

get proper shorts. MTB baggies can really chafe especially on a hot day.

You don’t need to fuel for easy runs,

This is a good point too. I can reasonably comfortably run 10 miles on empty stomach first thing in the morning. Food also jiggles around more in the stomach when running compared to the bike, so if you do eat before, make it light and give it time to digest. A banana an hour or so before a run should be fine for 10k at least.

get proper shorts

Indeed, and proper undies too. You don't need to spend loads, the £4 running boxers at Decathlon are more than adequate and stop chafing and swinging!

After several tries at becoming a runner over the years, each ending in sore knees, I tried changing to a forefoot/mid foot strike - my heel never touches the ground running, avoids all the big loads you get with a heel strike & it has worked wonders, no knee issues at all now.

It was hard.

Months, literally, of short runs 4-5 times a week. 1k each to start with to get the form, and sore calves every time to begin with. But muscular, tired muscle soreness not injury. It’s a big ask to your calf, and not the same as riding.

After weeks I went up to 2k and worked up from there. After two years I was up at 20k training runs, and then a 3:30 marathon. All without losing form. All without injury.

It’s hard, but paid off for me.

So an update, I got some running shoes from sports shoes linked above - got some not too aggressive trail shoes as I'd decided I'd rather run on tracks rather than the pavement. I've no idea about shoes so thought I'd get some basic ones to start with, New Balance 390v4, got some shorts as well, and went out to do couch to 5k run 1 last night.

Felt ok, got harder to the end especially as I ended up doing the last couple of runs uphill, but I didn't feel completely knackered which is good. Feel ok this morning, muscles around my shins a bit stiff, but looking forward to my next run tomorrow 🙂

As I've never really run before, is there any tips about style, like should I try to avoid heel strike and develop a good technique to start with, or does it not really matter and just run however I feel comfortable?

Tape your tits.

As I’ve never really run before, is there any tips about style, like should I try to avoid heel strike and develop a good technique to start with, or does it not really matter and just run however I feel comfortable?

Good work on starting.
In an ideal world you want to be avoiding landing on your heal, but there are thousands of runners out there who do without issue. It’s less important on trails as the terrain is mixed and therefore so is the impact.
And do sure you stretch after you run, it’ll make a world of difference to recovery.

nice one. i finished c25k end of last year. there's a link in the bbc app to a short stretch video which i found helpful after you've run. i found c25k much easier after the running sections extended out more. i could just get my breathing settled better. decathlon have a pair of shorts at about 17 quid that have a built in liner and a good pocket at the rear for phone which i've been really pleased with - light and comfy.

any tips about style

I wouldnt worry about "style" your body will adapt as you train. practice running fast and your style will take care of itself.

I did C25K 6 months ago, December to March and I'd say, as a cyclist with a semi-decent level of pre-existng fitness, the first couple of weeks were easy, the main thing was letting the leg/ankle muscles get used to running. There will be a crossover point where your fitness will run out though!! I was then running 10k+ in April.

I've been taking a soft water bottle with me even on 6-7k runs, but then I sweat like hell even when it's under 20 degrees out. I have to wear a headband or else I end up with sweat in my eyes/nose/mouse - so for me replacing some of that fluid is needed.

Tape your tits.

Decathlong compression tops ftw.

Taping us a rediculous solution and hurts like **** when taking it off.

While i agree about not worrying about style generally its worth watch arm positions and generally what makes a reasonable gait. You don't half see some in efficient running techniques.

Hands by your side flicking your heals up while not really getting your feet forward can't be be comfortable or much fun.

But aslong as you a comfortable it doesn't really matter.

After several tries at becoming a runner over the years, each ending in sore knees, I tried changing to a forefoot/mid foot strike – my heel never touches the ground running, avoids all the big loads you get with a heel strike & it has worked wonders, no knee issues at all now.

It was hard.

Months, literally, of short runs 4-5 times a week. 1k each to start with to get the form, and sore calves every time to begin with. But muscular, tired muscle soreness not injury. It’s a big ask to your calf, and not the same as riding.

I had almost this exact experience over 10 years ago. Every time I tried running I got shin splints. I finally examined my style and found I was running flat footed with heel strike. I changed to fore/mid foot striking and it took me weeks to build up my Achilles because up to that point it hadn't been used properly. However once it had strengthened and was working properly I had proper spring in my step for the first time my times improved by 20%.

As I’ve never really run before, is there any tips about style, like should I try to avoid heel strike

Mid strike works for me but if your shoes have a lot of drop then it may be tricky/unnatural.

I'm a newbie too, just on week 6 of my couch to 5k. I'm hitting barriers and finding it hard, but it's ok.

My tips so far would be to pay extra attention when you're getting tired...I find this is the time when I've had the odd ankle twist or misjudged foot placement.

I find it easier to run when it's cool, so typically early morning...I just can't seem to run very well in hotter weather...so find which time of day works best for you.

Running in the rain is awesome, don't let it put you off 🙂

Just to add a couple of points to the above:

On the subject of style, try to manage a fast cadence to prevent over-extending, heel striking as this can lead to injury, particularly if you're running on tarmac.

On the subject of shoes, most shoes are only good for 300-500km of running - the midsole gets compressed / loses shape and can exacerbate any irregularities in your stride. Keep a track of your mileage - maybe buy a second pair after a few weeks and rotate, using them every other day as they'll last longer. Don't be tempted to wear them all day - it just wears them out quicker.

Get a feel for the difference between muscle pain and other pain - if you're knees or joints start hurting them take a rest / reduce your mileage.

Avoid the temptation to do too much too soon.