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Words words words and no content as usual.
What more do you want? - decide the tactics with the best chance of beating the all blacks and then select the players to do that. Gatland has said he wants to see more attacking play and more risks taken ie offloads and counter attacking
Russell would be the key man if you want an expansive game but he would need the scots midfield around him a they know his game. NO great hardship as despite being ignored the likes of Watson were the best in their positions in the 6N. Play the quick ball playing options in the forwards. Play 2 or even 3 7s Scotland took the ball off Aus 18 times today playing with 2 1/2 7s
Get some centres in there who can pass ie Taylor. Made a try today with a beautiful dummy and delayed pass
Get players in there who can run the support lines. Noticable for the lions today how often a a player could find no support. Again this is where Watson is great.
Just think if the lions had the best of the scots in their they would be stronger especially at playing a fast paced turnover and counter attacking game. NO use being the strongest player if you are second to the breakdown every time - thats Why Hooper and Pocock are so good. Speed allied with technique. so play Barclay and Watson with falatau.
Relying on Barnes to say there aren't players good enough in the NH is just nonsense he can't even name half the scots players.
Why base your tactics on the 4th rated team in the world, when you can pick players from the second best team?
Mefty - thats the tactics Gatland says he wants to see. If so you need to pick the best players to suit your tactics
Even with fair representation there wouldn't be many Scots in the test side. Russell, Watson, maybe Barclay, Dunbar and /or Taylor and Hogg maybe Seymour.
Irish and English to make up the bulk of the rest. Webb and falatau probably the only welsh
Few Scottish boys on the way to the Lions including Russell.
The Lions won which is a positive but their attacking play is a bit poo. I understand that it takes time for a team to gel, but they're falling down on basic stuff. Th handling had been piss poor so far too. Emphasised when you watch how good the core skills of the blacks are.
I made the comment re support limes before and was dismessed...
The problem starts with Teo not seeing supoort runners so holds on and goes to ground, which needs to not become a habit...
Gatland will play the style of game that will beat the AB's all of the talk about attacking rugby is for the press, he will select a team that will stifle New Zealand and win ugly.
He isn't a fool and if he tried to play NZ at their own game with players he has then the Lions lose.
The lions cannot stifle the ABs. Yes with the players he has chosen they would lose playing attacking rugby - because he has ignored some of the best attacking players available.
How often have Wales beaten SH sides?
Well they just beat a very potent Mauri back line by not giving them a sniff.
That is the only way they will beat the AB's
Face it TJ you don't like Gatland, don't like the way he plays rugby and he isn't Scottish 😆
Forwards look like they're working well but the back line - whilst good in defence - are turgid in attack. Much as it pains me the commentators are getting pundit fever and we're going to get a schooling in the tests.
Gatland has said he wants to see more attacking play and more risks taken ie offloads and counter attacking
Gatland says lots of things, most of its bollocks.
The bottom line is Scotland might play some nice looking rugby but they threw the towel at twickenham, The All Blacks would destroy them and Aus gifted them 14 points this morning.
I just wish when I call you out on your one eyed bobbins speak you could see it for what it is, a scotsmen bacing his team over all else also if you hate Gatland and the liins maybe wait till they have lost the test series before you say I told you so. You'll get your chance.
Well they just beat a very potent Maori back line by not giving them a sniff.
TRue but that was because they dominated a relatively weak pack. That's not going to happen next Saturday. Is it?
Shutting down the ABs and kicking penalties is not going to work. Not over three tests. It might work some of the time but not all the time.
My prediction is for a tight game for the first 50 or so minutes then the ABs to run away with it. The running away point might come earlier or possibly later but it usually comes.
"That's just sport for you, that's the team that Gatland picked. There would have been a few boys who would have been disappointed but you have to go with these things, you have to move on to the next thing quickly. It was tough, but you get on with it."
Her's some advice for TJ from BIL player Finn Russell
My prediction is for a tight game for the first 50 or so minutes then the ABs to run away with it.
Stating the bleedin obvious isnt much of a prediction is it!!
The Lions are clearly trying to play with width when its on but all the line breaks came to nothing due to lack of support runners, hopefully they can work on this as the set piece and defence is working well.
Taking them on at beach rugby will 100% not work. Playing it tight but trying to finish chances well will give them a chance a slim one but a chance none the less. If we go out and try to out run them we will be playing catch up after 20 mins.
Oh and with Pyper reffing the first test our defense could prosper if he loses his cards for persistant foul play again!
Best get some cheating practise in, maybe we need MORE Welsh!
Finn Russell joining the Lions seems like a bad idea.
Russell is brilliant but fairly unpredictable - putting him in a team unused to playing with him seems a gamble.
And I want him in the Scotland side. If we're fourth in the rankings does that give the NH 3 of the top 4 spots?
It's going to be a Blackwash, we have no chance. I imagine NZ will take it easy to avoid destroying the Lions brand.
It's great to see Itoje growing in stature, this tour will be a tough but valuable learning experience for him not least being alongside the Welsh and Irish quality in the forwards. I have great hopes for him as a future England captain. Aside from that I am not sure I can bear to watch the Tests
this tour will be a tough but valuable learning experience for him not least being alongside the Welsh and Irish quality in the forwards
Only likely to be one Welsh forward.
What he has you cannot learn, athleticism.
Has Itoje stopped playing dirty yet? He needs to sort his head if he's ever going to be an international captain.
Havent seen any dirty stuff for Lions or before, few silly pens and a bit gobby but nothing to get upset about.
Aus gifted them 14 points this morning.
No they didn't. Scotland play for those interceptions and charge downs and make them thru pressure
but all the line breaks came to nothing due to lack of support runners,
So play the players who are used to running the support lines - note when Scotland make a break there are almost always 3 supporting players like the ABs - one each side and one behind
I tho9ught he was very good today and didn't give away stupid penaltiesHas Itoje stopped playing dirty yet?
I dislike Gatland because he has made a mockery of the lions by picking his favourites on reputation not the form players - twice in a row and his dislike for the scots is obvious.
Watson was clearly the best 7 in the six nations but he takes welshmen out of form and injured instead. Scotland were a much better side than Wales in the six nations but got two players compared to 12?
When are you going to stop underestimating Scotland? Its 30 years IIRC since Wales beat a SH side. Scotland are now 4th in the world rankings. ~Wales are 9th
Finn Russell joining the Lions seems like a bad idea.
Russell is brilliant but fairly unpredictable - putting him in a team unused to playing with him seems a gamble.
Its stupid. He needs familiar players around him and Gatland will not even bench him for the tests unless others are injured - and he won't be any good anyway without the guys familiar with him around him
and he won't be any good anyway without the guys familiar with him around him
Surely if he was that good, he would allow for that?
Watson was clearly the best 7 in the six nations
What?!?
Pot kettle black! 😉I just wish when I call you out on your one eyed bobbins speak you could see it for what it is, a scotsmen bacing his team over all else
Its not one eye bobbins - when did Wales last beat a SH side? Where are they in the rankings? What was the score in the 6N this year?
Scotland are a much better side than Wales and have some players who would grace any side in the world ( bar perhaps the ABS)
Its just frustration that our players for 20 years have been ignored for the lions and to see inferior players getting in the lions because they are Gatlands pals is frustrating and to see a lions team weaker than it should be because of the biases of the coaches devalues the whole thing
I see your praise for the welsh lads as one eyed bobbins - when the scots comprehensively outplayed them when they last met but still you don't rate them. 4th in the world is no accident or fluke.
I dislike Gatland because he has made a mockery of the lions
You must detest Woodward then.
wrecker - MemberWatson was clearly the best 7 in the six nations
What?!?
Yup - he made more yards ball in hand, made more turnovers, made more tackles and missed less than any other back row in the 6N. Best performance then
igm - Member
Has Itoje stopped playing dirty yet? He needs to sort his head if he's ever going to be an international captain.anagallis_arvensis - Member
Havent seen any dirty stuff for Lions or before, few silly pens and a bit gobby but nothing to get upset about.
A lot of head shots during the 6N - to be fair he was good at it and didn't get caught much.
Edit - I also think that he's a spectacularly talented player without playing dirty. I wish him well as a Lion, but to go through a bad patch whenever he pulls on an England jersey. 😉
Pigface - Member
I dislike Gatland because he has made a mockery of the lionsYou must detest Woodward then.
See them as much the same - I suppose at least Gatland has been a decent coach in his time
Watson was clearly the best 7 in the six nations
Do you have some more stats to back this up?!!!?
Scotland are a much better side than Wales and have some players who would grace any side in the world ( bar perhaps the ABS)
and the Lions!!!
Hamish Watson the best 7 in the six nations.
one eyed bobbins
"Scotland are a much better side than Wales and have some players who would grace any side in the world ( bar perhaps the ABS)"
and Wales!
Scotland are a much better side than Wales and have some players who would grace any side in the world ( bar perhaps the ABS)"
and Wales! And the Lions
...and England probably, as they slaughtered them!
I could find the stats but it wouldn't make any differnce to your opinion.
Watson made more turnovers, more yards ball in hand, more tackles and missed less and more turnovers than any other back row in the 6N. In the match against Wales he outplayed any of the welsh back row.
As for no scots getting into the welsh side - why did we hump them in the 6N and way are we 4 / 5 in the world and going up when wales are 9th and going down?
Wow agruements happen within mere seconds here!
aa v TJ, aa v kryton, reminds me of back in the day when it was aa v zokes. I wonder if there's a common denominator? 😀
"As for no scots getting into the welsh side"
Gatland hates the scots!! Mind you Nel, Seymour, Maitland, Dell, Hardie, Strauss and Visser might have a chance!
And remember we beat Aus missing our best 4 attacking backs and a couple of key forwards
Lee Jones, Greg Tonks and Rory Hughes are no where near the qualiuty of Hogg, Maitland and Seymour
Ta AA - add to that Watson 😉
You see you see me as one eyed, I see you as one eyed, the truth is somewhere in the middle I guess
"As for no scots getting into the welsh side - why did we hump them in the 6N and way are we 4 / 5 in the world and going up when wales are 9th and going down?"
But I thought Gatland was biased against the Scots!? hence they wouldn't make the Wales team.
tjagain: I do not doubt you know more than me about rugby, but I do not understand why you think you know better than Gatland or why you think he would deliberately throw the Lions tour by not playing superior Scotland players? - it seems ridiculous to me. Could you not be wrong?
Most tackles made in the RBS 6 Nations:
Joe Lanchbury (England) - 85 made, 4 missed
Justin Tipuric (Wales) - 84, 4
Sam Warburton (Wales) - 78, 4
Maro Itoje (England) - 73, 3
Jonny Gray (Scotland) - 73, 4
Read more at http://www.rbs6nations.com/mobile/en/news/france/31587.php#Ltf7UPTYYiV8pLTT.99
Gauss - a complex series of factors including gatlands dislike of the scots led to few of them being in the lions. However when Scotland humped Wales and are 5th in the world yet they only get two players in the Squad compared to is it 12 Welshmen something clearly is wrong
I don't know a huge amount about rugby really as I am sure AA will tell you 😉
AA - interesting - only repeating what I saw in another place 😳
gatlands (sic) dislike of the scots
Has he ever admitted to this? or is that your perception?
The way I see it is, that he has taken the best players he can, but if there is little between them he has gone for the player whose skills he knows best. This seems sensible to me, but I know little about sport and even less about coaching.
The reality is that the Scots play a fantastic game, but while it's not exactly complex, it relies on players understanding how each of their fellows play. And when it goes wrong, it's spectacular - see Twickenham.
I don't think that works for a Lions squad. You need a simple game plan that everyone can get their heads round quickly (you don't have the months and perhaps years to build anything else) and while brilliant individual skill in say running or sidestepping is fantastic, throughing hair's breadth flat passes at no 10 is just asking for trouble if the centres or approaching winger or flanker isn't very used to the delivery.
I'm Scots and I suspect big pack up front and warrenball behind (much as it bores me) is probably the right option.
Gauss - thats one of the factors along with no scottish coach and Gatlands dislike of the scots is obvious
Gatlands dislike of the scots is obvious
It's not obvious to me. What could be the possible reason for this?
Ps it still seems more likely you are wrong.
I don't know why but its obvious from his selections over the two tours that he will only select Scots if he has no choice - see the last tour not playing Hogg but playing 1/2p instead
You should ask him why. Halfpenny is probably the best kicker is he not? It must be worth consideration having a player who can score penalties and conversions from almost anywhere.
Anyway - we beat Aus in Aus. Makes it a great day in my book 🙂
Indeed!
see the last tour not playing Hogg but playing 1/2p instead
So last time he should have picked Hogg rather than the BIL player of the series? Brave call or one eyed bobbins?
Jesus even the Irish have stopped complaining about him dropping BOD
😆
Hogg is a much better player than 1/2p especially if you want to attack and score tries.
"Hogg is a much better player than 1/2p especially if you want to attack and score tries."
True, but saying it was the case 4 years ago and the BIL player of the series was only picked because Gatland hates the Scots is, well bobbins
It was also true 4 years ago. Most neutrals would agree.
AA - interesting - only repeating what I saw in another place
Watson didnt play in all the games though.
Intrestingly Tipuric won the most lineouts!
" It was also true 4 years ago. Most neutrals would agree."
Really so I'll repeat for clarity you think picking the guy who was the man of the series and voted player of the tournament in the previous six nations was a mistake by Gatland because he hates the scots?
Lol, you couldnt make it up!
No - I think it was a conservative choice by a conservative selector who wanted 1/2p in for his kicking. He does not like taking chances but no risk no reward - which is why the lions are going to be roundly stuffed
Man of the series - how many tries did he score?
Hogg 53 caps 16 tries
Halfpenny 74 caps 12 tries
An yway -- lets stop bickering. Neither is going to change their mind are we and its stinking up the thread but if you think Gatland selects on merit then why are there so many welsh players and so few scots when Scotland are clearly the better team?
"He does not like taking chances but no risk no reward"
Lions series win and two grandslams. How many grandslams have scotland won recently?
You managed to call for a halt to the agruing, then proceed to carry arguing all in two sentences there TJ 😯 It's a rare gift you have 😆
I'm a [s]genius[/s] [s]smartarse[/s] idiot 😉
Gatland selects on merit then why are there so many welsh players and so few scots when Scotland are clearly the better team?
Because some of the welsh players are better and some of them are very experienced player, some of the other welsh players are shit and we have no strength in depth, also we have our few quality players spread across europe or spread over 4 shit pro12 teams rather than Scotland being Glasgow dominated. So on balance Scotland are the better team but Wales have a few quality players who have been there and done it.
Although I do prefer the he hates the scots idea!!!
I'm glad that Hogg (hope he heals well and soon) got broke you'd have burst a artery had he picked 1/2p anyway!!
Maybe because Hogg was doing things like this, 1/2p wasn't going to be a liability
Hogg 53 caps 16 triesHalfpenny 74 caps 12 tries
Considering Hogg plays for a much much better team and a team that plays wonderous attacking rugby whilst 1/2p plays for Wales who are shit and he only gets passed the ball at pen time to take the kicks he is doing pretty well!!
Ruddy irish maiming our player. We would have wrapped him in cotton wool and covered him in rose petals. Instead Murray elbows him out of the lions so his mate gets a game. Its a conspiracy I tell you 😉
I do think you misread me a bit. I ain't angry at all. Just saddened to see the lions diminished and astonished and amused at the defence of Gatland
No I havent misread you you said 1/2p shouldnt have been picked for the last lions test series!
I'm not defending Gatland I'm calling you out on talking shit.
No doubt when the far superior All Blacks tram beat the Lions you will see this as vindication of Gatland a double grand slam winning and lions series winning coach as being shit like you are some sort of Scottish Mystic Meg.
No doubt there are better coaches than Gatland but none of them wanted/could take the gig so lets just try and suppoet them and have some fun and if cant manage that maybe dont talk about the Lions.
Worst lion ever!
Last one - just how well have Wales done under Gatland the last few years? Dropping down the rankings and getting humped by scotland. How you can think 12 welsh is justified on form while only 2 scots get in is beyond me.
I agree AA - I love the fact that come Lions time enemies become friends. I feel when it's Aus or SA we get more up for it, as we see ourselves having a realistic chance, whereas the AB are just too strong.
Maybe if the tour timing was different, with longer build up and more player rest, but as of now the season is getting silly.
As for the player call-up farce, there's 2 distinct parts to it IMHO.
We need bench cover for Tuesday to rest players prior to the 1st test. Fine - bring in some Welsh/Scots from nearby at short notice for 1 game.
However, there's still 5 games left on tour. Moriaty and Hogg have gone home, so the best possible replacements should be on the tour full time, not just the closest. We need some proper FBs, so Kearney/Brown/Goode should be joining. Same for either Heaslip/Robshaw/Hughes.
" We need some proper FBs, so Kearney/Brown/Goode should be joining. Same for either Heaslip/Robshaw/Hughes."
I agree..are robshaw and heaslip fit?
But Gatland doesnt want players to fly all that way missing out on test caps and disrupting their teams whilst also having played today, did England play today? Hence the famous 5 being called up as they are just down the road, have played a day earlier, wont be pissing off their national coach and most importantly will all be ****ing overjoyed to ride pine even if the dont get on.
England are about to kick off.
Robshaw playing tonight
England players can join tomorrow, miss no national tests, piss off nobody.
Might not be raring to go come tuesday though and remember its pretty much sunday morning in NZ!
No, as I said - short term local boys to cover Tuesday, best available for rest of tour.
Argentina giving England a bit of a scare here. Anyone know if this is a full Argentinian squad? I guess so the european season being over
Or maybe not - great take from Brown leads to a try
Yes it is - full team. Most Argentinian players now home based with Jaguares in SR, a bit like Glasgow supplying Sco.
Scoring pass from brown!!