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Wales to play Tonga
Wales: Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins, capt), Steffan Evans (Scarlets); Sam Davies (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Nicky Smith (Ospreys) Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues) Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues), Cory Hill (Newport Gwent Dragons), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets,), Thomas Young (Wasps), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues).
Replacements: Ryan Elias (Scarlets), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ollie Griffiths (Newport Gwent Dragons), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Owen Williams (Gloucester), Cory Allen (Ospreys).
Backline is exciting but looks to be defensively challenged! Locks are piss weak and backrow very Pro12 ordinary. Looking forward to seeing Dai's kid play though. Two flanks on the bench and three in the backrow highlights the lack of locks and 8's in Wales.
We need a few Derwyn's 😆
[i]Anyone see the England U20s beat SA in the semi-final of the World Championships?[/i]
England v NZ final - Sunday 2:45 ITV4 🙂
Lions vs Maoris:
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon/WAL), 14 Anthony Watson (Bath/ENG), 13 Jonathan Davies (Scarlets/WAL), 12 Ben Te'o (Worcester/ENG), 11 George North (Northampton/ENG), 10 Johnny Sexton (Leinster/IRL), 9 Conor Murray (Munster/IRL), 8 Taulupe Faletau (Bath/WAL), 7 Sean O'Brien (Leinster/IRL), 6 Peter O'Mahony (captain - Munster/IRL), 5 George Kruis, Saracens/ENG), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens/ENG), 3 Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/IRL), 2 Jamie George (Saracens/ENG), 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens/ENG)Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens (Scarlets/WAL), 17 Jack McGrath (Leinster/IRL), 18 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins/ENG), 19 Iain Henderson (Ulster/IRL), 20 Sam Warburton (Cardiff/WAL), 21 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester/SCO), 22 Owen Farrell (Saracens/ENG), 23 Elliot Daly (Wasps/ENG)
According to www.sport24.co.za, George North is English. We'll take him!
Maori side:
15 James Lowe, 14 Nehe Milner-Skudder, 13 Matt Proctor, 12 Charlie Ngatai, 11 Rieko Ioane, 10 Damian McKenzie, 9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 8 Liam Messam, 7 Elliot Dixon, 6 Akira Ioane, 5 Tom Franklin, 4 Joe Wheeler, 3 Ben May, 2 Ash Dixon (capttain), 1 Kane HamesSubstitutes: 16 Hikawera Elliot, 17 Chris Eves, 18 Marcel Renata, 19 Leighton Price, 20 Kara Pryor, 21 Bryn Hall, 22 Ihaia West, 23 Rob Thompson
Shouldn't trouble the Lions. The backs look a bit pedestrian.... 😯
No Lawes on the bench yet no news of injury - guess hes being rested. Sextons big chance too, Tough pack.
Nice looking Lions team, Faz at 12 apart I would settle for that as the test team if Sexton plays well, if not Faz at 10.
Wouldnt have Henderson or Laidlaw on the bench for the tests but otherwise it looks a strong bench that will add dynamism.
Looks close to a Test team with a few forced changes given the volume of rugby some of these guys have had (e.g. Farrell)
All the reports I've seen put Lawes out for a few weeks at least...
Maori All Blacks not far off being the All Blacks really! What a squad.
22. Dan Biggar – Ospreys, Wales, #821 (UPDATE: Late injury replacement for Owen Farrell)
F***
If its a late replacement, its not likely to be serious is my hope!!
Nice looking Lions team,
Too many Celts for my liking. 😉
That doesn't look like a side that's gonna score too many tries. Halfpenny is competent but no threat. JD seems to have got his place despite not really putting his hand up. Surely two from Loopy Liam, JJ or Daly would do the trick?
I can't recall anybody beating the ABs recently by shutting them down and kicking a load of penalties. Even if we do get 5-7 kickable penalties and nail them all, are we gonna keep them below 20pts?
You've got to go at them and never relent. Wales did it in two tests for 50-60mins. Argentina did it for the first half in one of the RC games. Ireland did it for the whole game in Chicago.
Maori All Blacks not far off being the All Blacks really! What a squad.
Well here's the ABs team for Samoa:
15 Ben Smith (captain); 14 Israel Dagg, 13 Anton Lienert-Brown, 12 Sonny Bill Williams, 11 Julian Savea; 10 Beauden Barrett, 9 Aaron Smith; 8 Ardie Savea, 7 Sam Cane, 6 Jerome Kaino; 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick; 3 Owen Franks, 2 Codie Taylor, 1 Joe Moody.Substitutes: 16 Nathan Harris, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Scott Barrett, 20 Vaea Fifita, 21 TJ Perenara, 22 Lima Sopoaga, 23 Jordie Barrett.
Few surprises although I thought TJ Perenara would start. All 3 Barrett brothers are in. Cruden and Read supposedly ready for 1st test. Kaino's first game in a while.
Not good news about Farrell - hope it's precautionary and not tour ending. If his tour is done for, who is next in line to be called up - would Gats look at Ford or would he look to someone like Preistland?
I'm not too worried about the forwards who have demonstrated what they can do, but the backs are a concern because they've not really fired or clicked yet. Is that down to individuals, form, combinations of coaching?
That All blacks team is much stronger than the Maori team!!
I can't recall anybody beating the ABs recently by shutting them down and kicking a load of penalties.
I also cant recall anyone beating the all blacks by playing beach rugby and the Lions dont have the players to do it anyway. With Hogg gone 1/2p is really the only sensible choice. When ireland beat them in Chicago they did it by beating them up front. Liam has been poor and Watson didnt look to have great decision making with his little cameo at 15 and Daly like the other 2 isnt a full time full back. Centre is the biggest issue if Faz doesnt play 12 and we have the Abu Hamzar twins at 12 and 13 it wont matter who is on the wing! I'd have Joseph at 13 but think Davies deserves another shot to stake a claim, he runs good lines and if we have a 10 and a second play maker at 12 his lack of passing ability is not too much of a problem.
Savea, Cane and Kaino is a rapid backrow if that is what they go for in the tests passing wide from the Lions would be suicide unless it is really on. With the players we have and our relative strengths and weaknesses a forwards dominated game with some rapid wingers to finish chances when on is our best hope, Watson and North give us that. Another hope if Teo starts is to hope he can draw SBW into a dick swinging bosh contest, Roberts did this with Wales a few seasons ago and the All Blacks only pulled away when SBW went off and they passed round Roberts instead.
would Gats look at Ford or would he look to someone like Preistland?
Think Russell would be next, certainly not Priestland as he's not even on the Wales tour.
the backs are a concern because they've not really fired or clicked yet. Is that down to individuals, form, combinations of coaching?
time I reckon. It takes a long time to adapt to how other people play,
although I doubt agent Howler is helping.
Apparently farrells injury has coincided nicely with Andy goodes arrival in NZ......he did say he was going to take his boots.
Another hope if Teo starts is to hope he can draw SBW into a dick swinging bosh contest
😀 😀 😀
#AnyonebutAnscombe
Dear God.. please save us; your humble servants from ever seeing Andy Goode in a tight rugby strip again....
Anscombe...no...nor Davies.....nor Patchel and certainly not Priestland.
Ford, Russell, Jackson or Carberry must be next surely
From what I have seen so far of the games Farrell seems to be the most in form / best of the tens so far and I didn't think Sexton / farrell worked.
Lions do really need an in form sexton but so far he does not seem to be showing much
Farrell missed a load of tackles in the one game I saw all of which is a worry
Carbery is home after an ankle injury, so not sure they can have him.
Hopefully they'll take Ford or Russell. While I'd love (for his sake) to see Sexton have an awesome performance, for whatever reason, he's bang out of form at the moment and should be on the bench at most.
Not Russell. He needs the familiar players around him. If the squad had been picked with him at the core of it and the players to support him around him then maybe but with the players in the squad - simply he will not work. o point in him chipping into space or flipping the ball backhanded on a no look pass unless the players would be expecting it - the scots back row and centres are, the lions ones are not used to playing with a player like Russell
Mind you if you saw his display against the Italians you can understand why he was rated. More tricks to create space than Farrell has used in his entire career! No brain farts either unusually 😉 Is well worth watch in youtube if you want to see a great show of a 10 with a huge bag of tricks at his disposal.
Highlights
for whatever reason, he's bang out of form at the moment and should be on the bench at most.
Yep. His form has dipped.
But even if he'd lost a limb, he'd still be better than Anscombe.
More tricks to create space than Farrell has used in his entire career!
Farrell (despite being clearly rubbish and the worst 10 ever) has won more trophies so far than Russell ever will 😆
Ford was surprisingly good last week and even managed to kick all but one goal. The game suited him though because it was played at pace and was generally unstructured. I still don't trust him to back it up on Saturday though!
Hey mindmap - I did say right now I would have Farrell starting 10
Hey mindmap - I did say right now I would have Farrell starting 10
Just joking and winding you up due to your man crush on Russell!
Russell will be a fine 10 in time once he tempers his attacking instinct and plays the corners etc to when pressure needs to be relieved.
Not the Glasgow / Scotland / toonie way!
Farrell has barely had a break all tour. I imagine it is pragmatic to get him fully fit for the Tests
Would love to see Andy Goode line up! If anyone can match the ABs cross kicking and pushing of the laws (cheap shots) it is him 😉 tell him there's a pie at the opposition try line and he could have the speed to cover the wings too 🙂
Got to be Goode, got to be.
tell him there's a pie at the opposition try line and he could have the speed to cover the wings too
Even quicker if you tell him there's a pie and a pint waiting for him! 😆
The best performance by any NH fly-half so far this summer was George Ford last week.
Still, if you look at the ABs and Lions teams for this weekend how many Lions backs would make a combined XV? Probably none or possibly just Connor Murray.
Forwards? Maybe 4.
The best performance by any NH fly-half so far this summer was George Ford last week
Ford was player the Jaguares, not the Crusaders or Blues and Russell was playing Italy. I'm sure both played well but its not really comparable.
Well the Toonie tombola goes into full spin cycle for the Aus match. this is the team
15. Greig Tonks (London Irish) – 6 caps
14. Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
13. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps
12. Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 19 caps
11. Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 28 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
1. Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 25 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 26 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
4. Ben Toolis (Edinburgh Rugby) – 2 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 33 caps
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN – 61 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 10 caps
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 28 caps
Substitutes
16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 108 caps
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 9 caps
18. Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 16 caps
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 30 caps
20. Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 12 caps
21. Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
22. Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 30 caps
23. Matt Scott (Gloucester) – 38 caps
Loads of experience in the backs! Russell with the most at 28! good to see Toolis finally getting a place over Tim "mr penalty" Swinson
Forwards? Maybe 4.
?Faletau if Read is broken maybe and......?the props at a push
I was comparing the lineups for this weekend.
The Lions front 5 is probably a close match for the ABs as Coles isn't there.
Not Toby is a better No8 than Ardie Savea.
So, on balance, you night pick 4.
I dont think any of the Lions front 5 forwards have the ball skills to be in the all blacks so whilst you could argue about set piece work I dont think many/any would get in.
I see your point but you don't necessarily pick tight forwards primarily for their ball skills.
Besides, Mako Vunipola has fantastic handling skills and Itoje is not too shabby either.
Vunipola, George, Franks, Kruis, Retallic, Kaino, Cane, Faletau.
How's that?
Wouldnt pick George, would pick Whitelock
That's just anti-English bias! 😉
I'd pick George over Taylor and Whitelock in for Retallic then. 😀
I see your point but you don't necessarily pick tight forwards primarily for their ball skills
And this is why NZ are better!! Basic skills are ingrained in them from the start, they are not an added bonus or something a prop might work on later!!
Indeed. They are better.
Exemplified by the fact that, although we've combined the talent of four (well three) countries, we're struggling to get 3-4 players into a combined XV.
That's why toonie coaches as he does. Fitness and ball skills first and foremost.
Gives players that can play around the pitch. Means you don't rely on the set piece but you do need to be able to compete on it.
I probably have to ask for permission on here to find this try impressive -
probably have to ask for permission on here to find this try impressive -
Pah, rubbish Gorseinon U11 girls would smash them!
Bah, that's nothing. The Welsh will be doing that and more soon as there is a new powerhouse in coaching arriving... yes folks, the intelligence and subtle skills of Andy Powell has entered coaching! 🙂
In other news, 1/2p still without a contract for next year?
One for STWRugbyRefTrackworld
Penalty try given against Tonga, but conversion wasn't taken. Heard ref saying no conversion for a penalty try. Is that new? Can't remember it happening before.
enalty try given against Tonga, but conversion wasn't taken. Heard ref saying no conversion for a penalty try. Is that new? Can't remember it happening before.
Missed the last 5 mins but I would have thought the games ends after the conversion.
Good performance by a raw wales pack, over powered the tongans and kept the territory well.
Dai's kid was good, remain unconvinced by Davies..I'd have had Anscombe and Patchel ahead of him with one at 10 and one at 15.
Nice try from Calamity Cuthbert.
Seems odd CFH
It was in the 81st minute but even so I would have thought the conversion would be taken.
BBC report
"With his radar well and truly fixed, Davies added his fourth penalty of the night and [b]then a conversion[/b] as the Welsh scrum earned a penalty try in the last minute as they shunted the Tonga eight back across the line"
Is that wrong?
Conversion wasn't taken, points were given.
Reports that the lions are going to call up half a dozen players to sit on the bench for the midweek side - mainly to be scots and welsh as they are in the right hemisphere. they can frak right off if they are going to strip Scotland of its best players merely to sit on the bench midweek unless its after the fiji game and even then I'd rather they came home to rest and have a proper preseason
http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/19650619/british-irish-lions-call-reinforcements-midweek-games.
Conversion wasn't taken, points were given.
New trial laws apparently, 7 points for pen try no need to take kick
Reports that the lions are going to call up half a dozen players to sit on the bench for the midweek side - mainly to be scots
The inevitable rise of Hamish Watson to the test 7 jersey starts here!!!
Yet another Lions tour smacks of a head coach disaster.
The simple fact is - and I'm saying this factually although my natural bias will appear to some, is that there's only two teams in the NH capable of running the AB's close once at home, and not in a series and not away.
Dilute those with 2nd rate fringe international players due to injuries, factor in the "touring" issues and we don't stand a chance. I expect the next 4 Saturday games to be pretty grim from a NH perspective.
Seems fair enough. These kicks are never missed anyway are they?
Can't link to YouTube but googling "missed conversions" brings up some howlers. 😆
New trial laws apparently, 7 points for pen try no need to take kick
I approve. Maximises the penalty, speeds up the game. Now, can we have drop goal conversions as well, like sevens. All that time wasted y the likes of Farrell and Biggar is dull. And yes, I blame Saint Johnny. 🙂 Paul Thorburn would just place it and hoof it
So, what do we think, drop goal conversions?
Drop-goal conversions are already an option if the kicker feels brave enough:
From law 9:
Conversion Goal. When a player scores a try it gives the player’s team the right to attempt to score a goal by taking a kick at goal; this also applies to a penalty try. This kick is a conversion kick: a conversion kick can be a place kick or a drop kick
Meanwhile:
LAW AMENDMENT TRIAL
7 points
Penalty Try. If a player would probably have scored a try but for foul play by an opponent, a penalty try is awarded. No conversion is attempted.
Yep, just thinking that 9 could be amended so it's all drop kick conversions, as with 7s.
So, what do we think, drop goal conversions?
Ok but must be kicked by a front row.
AA - thats the point. I wouldn't mind if they had a chance of going into the test side but according to the reports its merely to sit on the bench for the two remaining midweek games
Yet another Lions tour smacks of a head coach disaster.The simple fact is - and I'm saying this factually although my natural bias will appear to some, is that there's only two teams in the NH capable of running the AB's close once at home, and not in a series and not away.
Dilute those with 2nd rate fringe international players due to injuries, factor in the "touring" issues and we don't stand a chance. I expect the next 4 Saturday games to be pretty grim from a NH perspective.
Could you explain in simple terms how the first point is backed up by the second two?
So Wales played a test on a Thursday then? I thought that it was tonight.
Tom B - Member
So Wales played a test on a Thursday then? I thought that it was tonight.
It's Friday night in NZ.
AA and I am not sure which NH teams can run NZ close at home. IIRC none have done so since I started following rugby. Ireland and England have beaten them in one off games. Wales were competitive for parts of matches but not closeto winning. Scotland simply run away
Could you explain in simple terms how the first point is backed up by the second two?
It isn't, they are both contributory factors to what I believe will be the end result. For whatever reason, recent Lions coaches have failed to gel consistent winning teams. Sir Clive did an amazing job with England but an utterly poor one with the Lions for example.
If we go back to the past where - for example - we have constant and dominant Welsh talent in the player pool and smaller contributions from the other nations - like today but a different ratio in the player pool, the Lions were much credited for their skills and ability to win despite being a touring party. I think the last relatively successful tour was in SA '97?
Edit: I take it back - my memory must be "win selective" as the result are more variable than I thought. https://www.lionsrugby.com/historic-results/
I think the last relatively successful tour was in SA '97?
So the last winning tour wasnt successful?
Pro game means its much more complex to "gel" a team.
You are frankly talking clap trap.
Woodentop took 240 000 players and the tour was a disaster due to splitting the wed and sat squads.
Gatland has said all players will start a game before the tests, which is why he has taken less players than he may need.
If for example Roberts turns up to sit on the bench next wednesday he will be happy enough. If he was on the tour from the start and didnt get a start he would rightly be pissed off and the squad will fragment.
AA - if the report is right Gatland is now splitting into two squads nd wants more players to be the midweek sides subs
You are frankly talking clap trap.
Always in your eyes AA, hence your opinion is diluted as you can't seem to respond with anything I say without veiled or direct insult.
Your whole response would have been considered a dialogue and contributory until you weakened it with that line. I'll just ignore you, as do others.
AA - if the report is right Gatland is now splitting into two squads nd wants more players to be the midweek sides subs
true but Woodward started that way and not every player was given a chance to start.
ways in your eyes AA, hence your opinion is diluted as you can't seem to respond with anything I say without veiled or direct insult.
Well you criticized Gatland without any reason, if you want to be engaged with like an adult try forming an adult argument. When you cannot bring yourself to see that he won the last tour but still say it was unsuccessful I reserve the right to call you out as talking clap trap. If that upsets you then I suggest you either have a think about what you are typing first or grow up a bit
Ermm - aAA - first remove the beam in thine own eye
No criticism of Gatland or any welsh player is ever legitimate according to the posts you make on here
TJ your criticism is valid such as you have a point and back it up fair enough I may or may not agree thats why we have a thread! I have no problem with people being critical of anyone, even Gavin Henson, but I like people to back it up. Kryton doesnt.
Still All blacks looking shit so it'll all be fine!
Your posts AA certainly appear like you over react, It stops me engaging with you fairly frequently.
Oh right so Kryton says
Yet another Lions tour smacks of a head coach disaster.
and then backs this up with a point about the fact that the All Blacks are better and then says that the Lions havent been successful since 97 ignoring the fact that the lions won the last tour. I'm sorry if I take people up on such drivel.
AA - what you don't seem to understand is that for many of us the last lions tour was a muck up just averted. Wrong selections, wrong coach gave a poor Aus team that had been beaten by lowly scotland a chance.
Now we see the same poor slections on reputation not form meaning the lions team is not as strong as it might be.
AA - what you don't seem to understand is that for many of us the last lions tour was a muck up just averted. Wrong selections, wrong coach gave a poor Aus team that had been beaten by lowly scotland a chance.
its an opinion, but the tour overall was certainly successful.
Now I dont like Gatland very much but being critical of him without seeming to have any clue what he could do better whilst just waiting for him to fail is not what the lions are about.
I even supported woodentops lions
any clue what he could do better
Something other than one on one running without support lines and passing straight down the line until the Lions run out of players? If course, that could be the players themselves ignoring their coach...
So you havent been taking any notice of how they've been playing then? Admittedly they havent done too well against very good opposition but that has not been how they have been trying to play.
exibit a, clueless welsh lump Moriarty running at space
exibit b stout noble yeomen Teo takes straight line into contact no doubt as Gatland wants, however useless welsh biggerana dancing pillock doesnt give him the ball as per the plan instead passing to a forward playing wide out from the ruck, I'm sure Gatland was fuming at this. Biggar then compounds the error and loops round him causing two players to make risky offloads, Gatland hates these before by some fluke the fleet footed English 13 rescues the idiot celts from their errors and scores a try
Here's a try Gatland like, straight lines and a cheating welshman to help!!