[Closed] Rugby thread 2016/2017

Ashton - he may do nothing but score tries but he is rather good at that.

At international level, a lot of his tries have come against the likes of Italy. I don't want him anywhere near the Lions!

Lets put it this way, Aston couldn't make the England team. there's no way in the world he's lions calibre!

He is (was?) quick, that's not in doubt, look at his try against Aus in about 2010 but that's not enough. Rokoduguni (sp?) is far better as an attacker, just too idle to be quite international class. Ashton is not as good as him in all aspects of his game.

wrecker - Member

Ha, I told you all about ellis genge last year (one to watch at that point).
He is a very angry man, but he doesn't spill over. Of all of the fights he appears to try and get into, he never actually gets into one. It's all about intimidation, and he's pretty good at it.

Piling into a ruck from the side in front of the ref to give somebody a cheap one in the ribs is NOT intelligent. Good in the loose, will make a good door hinge when he retires at scrum time. The mess Nel(if he plays again) or Furlong will make of him will be best watched from behind the sofa.

I think you'll be surprised. As long as he's got Jamie George in the middle, he'll do OK.
At 21 he's already doing pretty well in the AP, in 5 years he'll wipe the floor with most. Nel will be 36 then, Fulong 29 (so more comparable). He's had less than 20 AP games so far, so it's to be expected that there may still be some issues!

Piling into a ruck from the side in front of the ref to give somebody a cheap one in the ribs is NOT intelligent

Maybe not but if you read POC's book - it's pretty much all he seemed to do in HIS early years. 😆

I agree, but Ashton doesn't really do anything himself. He relies on others putting him into space or creating an opportunity to finish.

Couldn't disagree more - Ashton makes literally dozens of runs off the ball, always looking to get on to someone's shoulder for the scoring pass. You don't notice most of them because he never gets the pass and then when he does, it looks like an easy run in. But it wasn't, it was hard graft.

BOD absolutely loves him. He always talks him up on BT Sport and says he's never seen another player work so hard off the ball.

I am starting to feel rather happy about our chances in the 6N. Am I suffering from premature jock elation?

Scotland could well finish above Italy and Wales and maybe France but Ireland and England will be too strong imo.
I reckon the final table will look something like:

England
Ireland
Scotland
France
Wales
Italy

3 wins is the minimum acceptable IMO. Depends if Cotter can convince the scots players the opposition are rabbits that need skinning 😉

The mess Nel(if he plays again) or Furlong will make of him will be best watched from behind the sofa.

Piling into a ruck from the side in front of the ref to give somebody a cheap one in the ribs is NOT intelligent.

Namaste is bang on about Ashton, he is a long way from just a poacher/lucky git. I know he's a weapons grade cockend but he's a very, very good rugby player, like it or not. I'd still far sooner have a beer with him than Hogg, who makes old chris look like a sound bloke.

Ashton is a good player but his defence is awful.

Indisputable, but the likes of wade and may aren't a lot better, if at all. I'm not championing a return to the england team for Ashton. Just saying that for all his faults, he is (annoyingly) rather good at rugby.

Ashton is a good player but his defence is awful.

And he's likely to do something bloody stupid and get carded / banned. He looked very very good when he first got capped but he never seems to have kicked on and worked on his deficiencies. I think we'll have to agree to disagree...

Watson looks like he'll be struggling to make the 6N opener with a hamstring injury.

 

Indisputable, but the likes of wade and may aren't a lot better, if at all. I'm not championing a return to the england team for Ashton. Just saying that for all his faults, he is (annoyingly) rather good at rugby.

True enough although Norths defence is bad he's better than Ashton

Should we just pick a side full of all the annoying gits for the lions? Make NZ lose their collective minds and give up and go home or end up with 10 players carded?

And he's likely to do something bloody stupid and get carded

I think we'll have to agree to disagree...

It would be a huge shame for Watson to miss the 6N, probably affect his Lions spot. The kid is pure class.

Jeez, sitting through Glaws/Barf in the AW was like a man-test. The highlights will be short! Been Obano continuing to fail to live up to expectations, Brew looked OK though.

Brew looked OK though.

😯

I just thought I'd leave a comment just voiced by Mrs Binners, a rugby league and ardent Wigan fan. We're in a pub having just watched the footy, and the Rugby has just come on. Whoever against whoever....

"Pfft... pansy rugby is on. Lifting each other up like bloody ballarinas. What that all about? All they're missing is bloody tutus!"

😆

I'd suggest mrs binners goes to see the size of some of the blokes that are lifted and tries to pick one up or run through them!

Ashton is a good player but his defence is awful.

Despite his awful defence Saracens seem to have been remarkably good at not conceding tries when he's been playing......

Despite his awful defence Saracens seem to have been remarkably good at not conceding tries when he's been playing......

Because there's 14 other well drilled players taking up the slack! His defence is poor; dragging players out by the hair, tackling too high and getting done for making contact with the eyes (a challenge that he didn't need to make).

[img] [/img]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38777496

Nice Jim Telfer article on BBC.
Decent Lions team but personally can't see a cat in hell's chance of that being the test side. Shame, really.
Bit about Eddie Jones as Donald Trump , too.

"Eddie Jones doesn't want to beat teams, he wants to demolish them, which I find a bit disappointing," says Telfer. "To me, he's building his whole team on set-piece and the building of the attack comes secondary. Having coached Australia and Japan you would have thought the opposite would be the case. The way he speaks, it's a bit like Donald Trump. He wants to be the big man, you know?

"His goal is to win the World Cup in 2019 and so far it's gone well, but I think he could be a little more circumspect, show a bit more respect for the opposition. He doesn't seem to show much respect and it could come back to bite him.

For Mrs Binners

http://www.dieuxdustade.com/Past_Editions.html

🙂

Jim Telfer is as mad as a box of Frogs... Johnny ****ing May!

Also too many welsh.

Much as I enjoy Jim Telfer's musings I think he's a bit off the mark about EJ.

Jones has always stated he wants a dominant set piece and a strong defence FIRST and then he'll develop the attack.

His Lions XV isn't too bad but I'd have Liam Williams in there at 11 or 15.

Watson hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire either!

May as well pick Tuilagi....

Eddie trying to be the big man (successfully) and Telfer trying to be Campese (less so) 😉

Is there a championship around the corner?

[Twickies may be sterile but at least its not a cess-pit of whistling at kickers]

I don't see the issue with wanting to smash teams; the SH teams never give up playing when in th lead. The AB's are relentless and never defend a lead as such, they keep playing.

So the beeb are saying we will see Itoje at 6 this weekend. Should be worth a watch. England team seems unbalanced with that massive pack but a fast and creative backline.
Really looking forward to seeing if Ireland can match them upfront what else they have.

two fly halves and three locks...
wonder whats coming.

England Ireland is the last game of the whole tournament, every other question to answer first before that comes round.

Scotland look like they deserve some of TJ's optimism. Best set of players they've had for a while and playing really well in domestic and Euro comps. Due a big win... or more...

Italy kept Parrise from retiring and beat SA. Due a big win...

Wales always good in Lions year and (quietly) coming off their best ever Autumn results. Ospreys top of the league and England and Ireland at home - Slam fixtures?

England gotta be favourites on this run, but The Vunipolas and Robshaw have been a big part of it so there's a test of depth before they return. Should have the resources to cope.

Ireland coming off some breakthrough results but still have the ability to lose to anyone when they don't get it right.
Sexton, O'Mahony and Payne out at the same time would normally have been massive trouble but there's startin to be a bit of depth coming through. Hopefully. 😉

Round 1
Saturday 4th February – Scotland v Ireland (2.25pm) GMT unless stated.
Saturday 4th February – England v France (4.50pm)
Sunday 5th February – Italy v Wales (2pm)

Round 2

Saturday 11th February – Italy v Ireland (2.25pm)
Saturday 11th February – Wales v England (4.50pm)
Sunday 12th February – France v Scotland (3pm)

Round 3
Saturday 25th February – Scotland v Wales (2.25pm)
Saturday 25th February – Ireland v France (4.50pm)
Sunday 26th February – England v Italy (3pm)

Round 4
Friday 10th March – Wales v Ireland (8.05pm)
Saturday 11th March – Italy v France (1.30pm)
Saturday 11th March – England v Scotland (4pm)

Round 5
Saturday 18th March – Scotland v Italy (12.30pm)
Saturday 18th March – France v Wales (2.45pm)
Saturday 18th March – Ireland v England (5pm)

Edit:
France???

I think Ireland may edge it at home.

Wales always good in Lions year and (quietly) coming off their best ever Autumn results

What we beat a SA team that lost to Italy and needed a last min drop goal to beat Japan...pull the other one. If we do more than beat Italy I will be suprised. Look at the coaches the others have then look at ours? We are ****ed.

Home draws and early momentum could be interesting again

Eng adv of 3 home matched but Wales away (oops) and Ireland away to finish (?)
Ireland only two at home but they are France and England
Wales ditto but England and Ireland - two key ones
France tough away matches and one OK one at home

Hmmm...

Italy team to play Wales

Italy: Edoardo Padovani; Giulio Bisegni, Tommaso Benvenuti, Luke McLean, Giovanbattista Venditti, Carlo Canna, Edoardo Gori; Andrea Lovotti, Ornel Gega, Lorenzo Cittadini, Marco Fuser, George Biagi, Abraham Steyn, Maxime Mata Mbanda, Sergio Parisse (capt).

Replacements: Leonardo Ghiraldini, Sami Panico, Pietro Ceccarelli, Joshua Furno, Francesco Minto, Giorgio Bronzini, Tommaso Allan, Michele Campagnaro.

Kruis is out of the England match with knee issues.

Looks like Maro will stay at lock with Lawes or Launchers (with which ever one doesn't start as a sub). Interesting call to be made re the back row.

I'm disappointed not to get a s**** or two for " feeling a bit optimistic - is this premature jock elation?"

Scotland have the team and skills to beat anyone but do they have the self belief and the bottle? Its a big question.

3 wins is achievable no doubt at all.

England should win but I doubt a slam. Ireland are the next best and nothing much between the rest as can be seen for the rankings. ~so Scotland could either be third or last. as could any of the other teams

Here it is, everybody!

[img] [/img]

TJ - I do t think anyone will be taking your boys lightly this year given their form in Europe. If they believe they'll be a challenge to beat.

I'm quite glad we have them at Twickenham given their poor record there!

This 6N is a real challenge for Jones and co with injuries to key players.

England team to face France: Mike Brown; Jonny May, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Farrell, Elliot Daly; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley (captain), Dan Cole; Joe Launchbury; Courtney Lawes; Maro Itoje, Tom Wood, Nathan Hughes.

Replacements: Jamie George, Matt Mullan, Kyle Sinckler, Teimana Harrison, James Haskell, Danny Care, Ben Te'o, Jack Nowell.

England team to face France: Mike Brown; Jonny May, Jonathan Joseph, Owen Farrell, Elliot Daly; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley (captain), Dan Cole; Joe Launchbury; Courtney Lawes; Maro Itoje, Tom Wood, Nathan Hughes.
Replacements: Jamie George, Matt Mullan, Kyle Sinckler, Teimana Harrison, James Haskell, Danny Care, Ben Te'o, Jack Nowell.

Largely as expected then - interesting that there is no lock cover on the bench.

It'll be interesting to see how Maro goes at flanker at international level.

Will Lawes call the line outs like he did when we has first choice?

Daly ahead of Nowel is a big surprise though.

So do we know if Dan Biggar is going to kick for wales or is Halfpenny back on form?

Dunno but disappointed that once again Wales have gone the conservative route and not brought any young players in

interesting that there is no lock cover on the bench.

True but when you start with three locks on the pitch, you can go with two back rowers on the bench.

Daly ahead of Nowel is a big surprise though.

Apparently Nowell missed Tuesday's training for personal reasons which may have had a bearing on his not being in the starting XV?

Thanks Cap'n

Dunno but disappointed that once again Wales have gone the conservative route and not brought any young players in

Like who?
Nicky Smith is a good young player, very few others an option imo.

Apparently Nowell missed Tuesday's training for personal reasons which may have had a bearing on his not being in the starting XV?

Saw that when I read the BBC article - makes sense if he has had to miss some training. That's two wings with a fair amount of pace - lets hope they've been working on their tackling technique given the size if the wings that France will be sending their way!

Weather forecast has improved a lot too.

Interesting reading the comments on the BBC - a lot of fans are really struggling with the idea of backs being out of position. I think Jones wants to adopt the Aussie approach where the number on your back is irrelevant.

Lets hope Daly has been working on his kick chase technique!

To me England's pack looks a little undercooked.

Hartley and Marler haven't played at all recently. Cole has not been having a great time at Leicester. The second row pairing is the second choice one. Haskell has only played an hour or so in 6 months. Hughes has only started one game at No.8 for England. Itoje is playing at 6 and Wood is not a 7.

It'll be interesting to see if the French pack can exploit any of that.

Of course, Launchbury and Lawes have both been in outstanding form, Itoje can probably play anywhere and the others are quality players and resolute competitors.

Looking forward to it.......

namastebuzz - I agree that the pack is where the French will try an exploit us. I am not so fussed about the personnel, it's more the untested units.

I think the scrum will get munched by the French - I just hope that we take the Japanese approach (in and out as fast as possible). I have faith in the line out with three jumpers in there and would expect us to disrupt French ball.

Wood in his defence did OK at 7 in the AI's - much better than I expected. Hughes is a hell of an athlete but he doesn't give us the same amount of power that Billy does. He was very good against Aus though.

Their work at the breakdown will be key and that's where they need to work really hard and well together.

The scotland team is definitely picked to attack, attack and attack again. I like the look of it very much indeed.

Bluto ( ~Strauss) in for Barclay. Watson gets a start. Ford dropped for Brown. Inexperienced front row but Fagerson and Dell are good ball carriers nd in their limited international experience have done well and Watson is there to make a pest of himself. Pace all over the park. Expect the unexpected! High risk selection for high risk tactics.

Picked on form not reputation. I suppose we can't afford to drop Laidlaw given how inexperienced much of the team are but I'd riather see price or Pyrgos starting with wee Greig onthe bench to steady the ship if needed.

Well Ireland - you know whats coming now if you didn't before. Pacy offloading attacking from all over, high tempo game and going for turnovers.

Quite excited by the ire/sco game. Interested to see if the irish try the choke given the new laws on high tackles, and to see if this high pace offloading game will just get steamrollered. Ireland are a lot better than Leicester or Racing!
Lots of pundits fancying scotland as the dark horse this year

Dark horse tag is ridiculous unless you haven't been paying attention. NO one is going to take this Scotland side lightly anymore.

The big question is bottle - have they got enough? Twice beaten by Aus by one point in games they should have won and really should have won at least one more game last year but inability to close out games ie lack of bottle has cost them. Lets hope they have learned the lessons

Can Ireland weather the early storm coming their way? Can Ireland force Scotland to play without the territory? Can Russell bamboozle the Irish midfield as he has did to racing and Leicester? Will the Scotland pack get enough ball for the backs to work with?

One thing Cotter has said is he wants Russell to be running the game not Laidlaw - the main criticism the scots fans have of laidlaw is he slows the game down too much at times. Can he trust Russell and just get the ball to him?

Will Hogg get sent off 😆

Na - he has calmed over the last couple of years. Swinson is the main card magnet nowadays - I bet he does even coming on as sub.

TJ - I guess there is a bit of a question mark over Finn. He's in great form, but will he try too much of the fancy stuff and not play enough of the pragmatic, safe stuff as he did a bit recently at club level?

Don't get me wrong, he is a fantastic player. I just think that he needs to get the balance right between attacking / fancy passes etc and playing for territory. When that is sorted, he'll be some player.

Personally, I think that Ireland Scotland will be the game of the weekend.

MIndmap - in that club game you refer to it wasn't so much he tried too much of the fancy stuff as he appeared not to be concentrating / to have relaxed too much so I don't think that will be the issue.

But yes - control of a game is his weakness but he has shown better aptitude in game control recently ie against Racing in both games. He is young and inexperienced still but totally fearless - and he can try to win every game with one pass a bit too much but has shown signs of becoming a more rounded player.

Glasgow and to an extent scotland will play a high risk high reward game - and thus mistakes will happen.

One thing I think we will see is not much tactical kicking from Scotland - partly because they don't do it a lot anyway and partly because kicking to the Ireland back 3 just gives them the ball and their back 3 don't make many mistakes. I just hope Scotland don't try to play too much rugby in their own 22 but I want to see them attack at every opportunity - I don't think Scotland have the players to give away possession in exchange for territory. Better to play with the ball in their own half than play without it in Irelands.

Is this the first time Moriarty has been a starter?

No Moriarty has started lots of games at 6 for Wales. Started a few at 8 in Autumn too.

I think Scotland will be bought down to Earth with a bump tomorrow..hope to be proven wrong as I like what they are doing but I think Ireland will be too strong.

Ireland will play like the lovechild of Munster and Leinster. If they can get to Murray better than Glasgow did then it will be game on. However we will miss Nel hugely and on the other side I believe that Furlong is the best tighthead in the world just now, and will give Fagerson a very, very hard time. An interesting game of two very different styles which I intend to be viewing through blurry eyes, having managed to comp hospitality...from a distiller.

When you consider the bookies had Scotland at 25-1 earlier this week then the dark horse tag doesn't look ridiculous at all.

Think it'll be an interesting match but don't see a classic at all. The result is all important for both sides. Getting out of there with a 3-0 would be job done.
Ireland look like they've picked a team to try and run through Scotland. Stander, SOB, and Henderson in the same lineup means one out and two out runners trucking it up all day. Would have been more variety and athleticism with VDF or POM in but that looks like a side for keeping it tight.
Don't see that Scotland will be that different, all relative, 'cos they are a running side tbf.
True, there's some special players and real pace (with Russell and Hogg but they've left a lot of pace out in Bennett, Taylor and Scott. Team looks like Cotter's taken the bigger, more physical options where there was a choice - eg Strauss, Dunbar and they're picking for a battle not a try-fest.
Weather forecast shows a shitty storm blowing in too. Think the game of the weekend will be elsewhere

If they can get to Murray better than Glasgow did then it will be game on.

Interested to know what was your take on the "standing leg"

It was one of "those" ones; it was late and intentional...but prove it Mr Ref.

Cheating and foul play only counts if you wear a white shirt!

Strauss will be sure to target his ankle again. At least the kickers will be respected....

I'm in San Francisco this w/e - found an Irish bar near my hotel opening up at 6 for the Ire/Sco game, with eng/fra on after. No beer as I'm flying home later, but they are doing cooked brekkie

Given the importance of momentum, S v I is the key match of the weekend in so many ways

Fun to have a neutral match to get the juices flowing first

Not sure I agree Loum. Watson is small and fast and we have bigger centres available as well. Strauss is there on form and also to provide a ball carrier in traffic as thats not Watsons strength and to add a bit of ballast. I see it as a team to attack and to go for turnovers. Watson often outpaces backs and Fagerson is quick for a huge ( well wide) man and Dell is no slouch for a prop.

todays daft rugby factoids - Zander Fagerson was scottish DH mountainbike champion in 2010 ( age group I assume) and also sang in a choir. So when he puts that innocent props face on he actually is a choirboy not he simply looks like one!

the main criticism the scots fans have of laidlaw is he slows the game down too much at times

He slows things down ALL of the time.

Slow to the ruck, slow to take a couple of steps before releasing a slow pass.

If you imagine the Scotland attack trying to flow down a waste pipe - he's the big clump of bog paper and turds that's blocking it up.

namaste no he can give it zip and he is quick to the ruck - its just he often puts his foot on it and waits for everyone to be ready. I think its years of playing with rubbish 10s for scotland

cotter has said he wants Russell to control the game not Laidlaw so hopefully he won't do this and not the useless box kicks either

I think you're viewing him through tartan-tinted spectacles TJ. 😆

I think it's great TJ is back with the normal over optimistic Scottish rugby report. I think last time there was a great revival about to happen they won a wooden spoon.....

(I don't think it'll happen this time but Glasgow vs tigers / Racing is a long way from Scotland vs England or France!)

Not as optimistic as TJ, I think 3 wins will be a good six nations for Scotland. Momentum could be crucial so if we can win the first two without any injuries then anything could happen. I reckon England and Ireland are the best teams though.

Any score predictions? I'll kick off:

Ire v Sco 17-12 Ireland suffocate Scotland
Eng v Fra 25-22. 2 players Red carded in a smash fest.
Ita v Wal 15-17. Wales score at the death to salvage a win after a "Parisse special"

Putting aside the 6N for a sec....

George Ford is reportedly returning to Welford Road for £450k and Burns heading to Bath. If that's true, Tigers are nuts. That'll mean both FH's are off to be replaced by one who isn't really in the Tigers mold and is a squiffy place kicker. On top of that, they should be spending that money elsewhere really.

On top of that, he'll be away for large chunks of the season.

And back on topic...

I'm getting more nervous about France the closer it gets to kick off. I think they'll be a different beast to last year; better coach who has also had access to his players for the last two weeks.

Ireland will beat scotland by smothering them
England will beat france well
Wales will struggle to beat Italy

Good luck everone

Not so sure about england beating france well. We have a 5 at 6, a 6 at 7 and a 13 at 14. Robshaw and billy are massive losses for the team. Massive french pack, and NZ only just beat them recently. I predict a frantic game.
Ireland too physical for the scots but close score, wales will beat Italy to a bloody pulp.

I think England will struggle but pull away and win by 12 in the last 20.
Ireland will beat scotland by 5-10.
and I am trying not to think about Italy Wales....

I'm going for....

France to edge it.
Scotland beating Ireland in a wet drudge of a game.
Wales to struggle past Italy in a dreadful performance.

England will struggle, especially in the scurm. Their defence needs to be good because there will be some big lumps heading their way.

Itoje at 6 isn't to bad because he's played there a reasonable amount for Sarries, Wood has played seven a lot for England and done Ok and Eddie seems les obsessed about an out and our seven these days (probably because there isn't one....). As for the backs, other than FH and SH I think England will take a more Aussie approach where the good players just fit in and are adaptable (e.g. Beale).

I think Ireland will pip Scotland and smother Scotland in a very SA approach.

Wales will squeeze past Italy. They always start slowly.